Daughters: Do you still seek your dad's approval?

[Missy Vixen]

Despite the fact I strenuously disagree with many points in this article, I'm posting it to see what other women might think about the central subject.

The author posits that even adult women seek their father's approval. Those that can't or won't get it tend to have difficulties in their relationships as adults.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303823104576391452872513430.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_editorsPicks_1

>In my research into the lives of some 75 high-achieving, clearly independent women, I knew that I would find a powerful connection between them and the first men in their lives. Many other studies have confirmed it. What surprised me was how deep (and surprisingly traditional) the bond is, how powerful it remains throughout their lives, and how resilient it can be—even when a father has caused it grievous harm.

There is, of course, the force of history here. It has always been the father's job to protect the daughter until she is ready to be handed off to the protection of another man. Though time has softened the transaction—for one thing, women have long had a say in the matter—the basic concept has remained the same.<

Father's Day is Sunday. To say I do not celebrate the day is an understatement. I'm wondering how many of you don't, either, and how your lives may have been impacted by an absent, emotionally withholding or abusive father.

What are your thoughts?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PassingFair]

3. So you won't be getting nominated for "Father of the Year" any time soon?

That's a strange admission.

[JTFrog]

21. Wow.

:wtf:

Somehow this comes as zero surprise.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Whaaaaat?

:wow:

[TygrBright]

2. I wish my Dad were still around to talk this over with. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

37. I do, too. It's been 35 years since he died and not a day goes by that I don't think about him

and miss him.

Hell, my daughter never even met him and she misses him based merely on the stories I've told!

[PassingFair]

4. My Father loved me and was very proud of me.

I never for a minute doubted that.

He died 13 years ago.

I still miss him.

:cry:

[TorchTheWitch]

25. My dad passed away 13 years ago as well

I never stop missing him. I don't suppose one ever does. I guess it's the sort of thing one never really gets over, but rather, adjusts to. I consider that a good thing in the grand scheme of things though.

:hug:

[seabeyond]

5. fathers are so important to daughters. i always had my fathers approval,

respect and love. i have told him recently that because he gave me that, it allowed me to have an expectation from men in my life. i have never had anything less than what he gave me and i thanked him for it.

i have not looked for approval from him in years or more. maybe because i already knew it was there, so i had nothing to prove. we have a really good relationship. more on an equal footing, adult to adult, than any kind of child/parent relationship. he always allowed us kids to make our own decision, not in anyway try to control us or our lives. he is a good person. people respect and like him.

i was lucky

[FLPanhandle]

24. That's my goal for my daughters

I'm trying to set the bar of expectations high. I hope I'm as successful as your father.

[seabeyond]

41. i think that is an excellent idea

it worked for me. i wish more, of both gender, felt they were worth it.

[madokie]

26. Somehow I knew that

and we are lucky to have you here with us Seabeyond.
May your future days always be as bright as that shinning star your dad sees in you.

[seabeyond]

42. lol, surprise. i had a mother that was a little 5'3" didnt put up with shit, lol

i got it good both sides of the parenting.

hey... thanks

and happy daddys day tomorrow (making assumptions, playing the odds)

[Retrograde]

6. I made my fiance ask my father for consent to marry me

not that we wouldn't have if he didn't consent, but that was almost forty years ago and I thought of it as a courtesy rather than a real request. He did just happen to have a bottle of champagne on hand for emergencies like this :) And it pleased him greatly. Maybe because I was my father's favorite (my sister thinks she was but she's wrong) I thought it was important.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. My daughter's father has never been in her life and she's definately not emotionally adrift...

And when it comes to me, I love my dad, but I don't seek his approval anymore than I seek my mums approval. It's got to do with being an adult and being able to make my own decisions...

[AsahinaKimi]

8. No poll?

I take the 5th on the grounds that anything I may say, may incriminate me..

[gkhouston]

9. No, he's been dead for years, and even before that, I wasn't

seeking his approval. I do sometimes wish he'd lived long enough to see me marry. He didn't have much in common with my sisters' husbands, but I think he would have enjoyed knowing mine.

[Maru Kitteh]

10. I miss my dad. :-( We had a difficult relationship sometimes, but it was because we were too alike

I'd love to have him back.

I can't think of a good answer to your question. Scratch that. Yes I can.

Dad did not raise me to seek his approval so much as to help me develop character that would lead me to demand more of myself.

[drmeow]

11. I don't ever

remember seeking my Dad's approval. I have, at times, sought both parent's approval but never just my dad's. Perhaps it is because I have always felt my dad's unconditional acceptance but not always my mom's.

As a psychologist there are a few red flags in this article which makes me skeptical:

1) 75 women ... not a very large sample
2) "high-achieving, clearly independent women" - I see a potential confound between high need for achievement and high need for approval. Major, major flaw and bias. You need a representative sample of all types of women.
3) How was the data collected and analyzed? Lots of potential for bias.
4) I don't see any reference to peer reviewed journal articles, just a book.

I would need to see a lot more to accept these results at face value.

[JDPriestly]

12. My father and mother were a team and both just wonderful.

Unfortunately, my father is no longer living. I loved him very much, but I often felt that I did not live up to his expectations and, thus, became somewhat estranged from him. I had to become my own person. That can be difficult for people who have really, really good parents.

[jaysunb]

13. I'm a very lucky Dad

and I owe it all to my Mother, and the life lessons she tried to impart to me.
1) never sleep w/ girls you wouldn't want to marry
2) never bring home boys you wouldn't want your sisters to marry.
3) your sons will do what they see you do and not what you tell them to.
4) your daughters will look for you in the men they love.

I failed miserably with the first 2 but think I may have actually had some success with the last 2.

My sons, age 27 & 28 are strong and independent thinkers that have shown a knack for being sensitive to their lady friends needs, while valuing character above vanity. I'd like to think they learned that from how their Mother was/is treated.

My daughters age 44 & 37 are "Daddy's girls" all the way. I've always tried to give them the positive re-enforcement necessary to make good choices--though not always successful--and to create their own destiny, independent of a man. IOW, even if the boys are stronger physically,it doesn't mean you can't out think them. You have full ownership of your life.

I guess approval is like a check-up of sorts, since parents can't give their children but 2 things: wings and roots. Wings to become independent and moral roots to return to when doubts arise.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

15. Wings to become independent and moral roots to return to when doubts arise

i love your post. i am gonna keep the wings and root.

happy early fathers day

[jaysunb]

16. Thank you

:)

[pansypoo53219]

14. not my paternal unit.

hell no.

[Lucinda]

17. I've never sought anyone's approval

My parents had a very opinionated, headstrong daughter in me from the moment I was born. And they handled the situation with a lot of love. :)

[The Doctor.]

18. I feel very sorry for you.

Semen donors that abandon their kids or otherwise neglect them seat an anger in me that I cannot express civilly. Good fathers are treated very badly by a system that cannot otherwise deal with the deadbeats effectively.

There are good fathers who have suffered a great deal of indignity at the hands of a system that treats all men as 'suspects'. I have suffered from the perjury of a woman who took advantage of the bias in the system. I am on the fence about putting her in jail for the 'E' class felonies she committed. I don't want our children knowing a damn thing about the horrible things she's done, so I do not file.

I know that on DU, there's rarely such a thing as a "male victim", and I will likely be run up and down as some sort of 'misogynist' for merely saying so.

Perhaps I can be convinced to send my lying sack of ex up on a felony charge. It would take something especially mean, from somewhere, to convince me that I should.

This Father's Day, I'll be with my kids, play games with them, teach them about many things as I always do, and make sure they understand how nifty the world is and all of the ways they can interact with it.

You want my thoughts?

I'm a father, and a damn good one. My kids love me for more reasons than I can name, and I give them more than this world can grasp to the very limits of my imagination.

I'm a real father.

[MedicalAdmin]

23. She did it others, she did it to you, and she'll do it to your kids.

If she broke the law then report her ass. Don't live with the false hope that your ex will fly right in concern for her kids. She ain't your mother and your kids will be better off in the long run knowing who she really is. You are trying to trade short term gain for long term pain.

I watched by brother donwxaxtly what you are proposing and in the long run he lost his daughter to drugs because mommy dearest got her hooked and then started pimping her own daughter. When I think about letting my brother talk me out of killing that bitch when my niece was a wee child, I know that was only one of many mistakes he made in covering up for her in hopes of "protecting his daughter." the only thingy niece ever felt by that stupid behavior was abandoned.

Your kids are smarter than you give them credit for and know everything already. Trust them. And teach them to do the right thing by doing it yourself.

[Missy Vixen]

35. I'm more than a bit confused by your meaning

Perhaps you might explain.

I am no different than any other child whose father provided a roof over my head, food and clothing, but little else. There's a lot more to say, but I am not posting it on a public message board.

Bottom line: My father should never have been a parent. He did not have the emotional capacity. When I saw the article I referenced, I wondered to myself how my life, and the lives of other women, may have been different with another situation.

[The Doctor.]

38. My apologies. I sometimes switch points without signalling.

I feel sorry for anyone whose father was not a significant part of their emotional development. Mine was not either. I made a conscious choice that I would never be that way, that my kids would come before career, or virtually anything else. Perhaps this was my mistake, because my lying sack of ex took my little ones when she met someone with a whole shitload of money inherited from his father. So I don't see them every day anymore. Worse; they don't see me every day.

They will come to live with me, likely within the next few years. In the meanwhile, I make the most of what time we do get. In her abject selfishness, their mother robbed them of more than she can imagine.

I'm sorry that your father was not more for you, there are many like that. Unfortunately, society does not view men who put their children ahead of work as the 'proper' paternal archetype.

[seabeyond]

43. i think it is changing. i am seeing it more

both my brothers raised their kids. but on one, it was because the mom was not able/didnt want to. that brother was happy having kids. the other? ah, it was a decade, 150k fight and what you say in the court system. she finally went too far, and he was given daughter. i hear what you are saying.

the state i am most impressed where they dont take gender side is texas. i found that interesting. they are pretty straight here.

[The Doctor.]

45. Funny you say that...

My brother is going through hell with his ex in Texas. She is in desperate need of psychiatric treatment. Thankfully, the law guardian actually paid attention and took him seriously when he explained the things she'd done.

A father gets no such benefit of the doubt in NY. The misandry in the FCS here is so blatant, but if a man dares to point it out, he's being 'aggressive and controlling'.

After my ex had used my kids as leverage against me, blocked access, and allowed her boyfriend to try to start a fight with me in front of the kids, I filed for relief. I asked that, instead of my driving the 60 miles round-trip to pick them up and drop them off every single time, we meet in a central, neutral location away from the BF, and that access be ordered so she couldn't block my access on a whim anymore. (That's a synopsis, she was nastier than it sounds and I have the texts to prove it.)
The judge, a female, with nothing in front of her except my complaint and request for relief, excoriated me for 'not appreciating or making the most of the time I spend with my kids'.

I have never been so insulted, humiliated, and infuriated! After I had been treated like shit by the ex, after the horrible things she had said and done to me, and by extension the children, and with NOTHING else before the court but the fact that I had a penis... the judge automatically assumed I was there because I didn't want to transport my children.

Never mind that whether I drop them off at 5 or they are picked up at 5 it's the same amount of time we spend together, forget that there was no transportation agreement and she refused to do the driving while I more than accommodated her ("If I have to come pick them up, we will go to court and there will be no visitation until that time." - Her exact text message.), and forget that everything I asked for was fair and equitable... no, I'm somehow the asshole because I'm a man.

The law guardian didn't care. 'Tender years doctrine' he said.

So, since the millionaire boyfriend decided she's just a booty-call now, my kids live in a trailer-park with their coke-head mother instead of in their own rooms in the house they grew up in.

My children, the little lights of my life, are not around me more than 9 days (not full either) out of the month. They were robbed of so much by that selfish monster. But the court says 'penis=bad' out here.

Maybe you can see why I'm so terribly sensitive to the sometimes automatic male-bashing I see around here. That exact attitude is what has left my children bereft of one of their best developmental resources.


I'm sorry your brother had to fight so hard when it seems apparent he was the better parent. I know all too well what that is like.

[seabeyond]

46. we would drive 14 hours to pick up for three days. lol. would have to get a hotel

i am in amarillo and would have to drive to LA. my brother would get so torn up on pick ups. we never knew if she was going to actually bring the child. was always a guess and the woman always left it up in the air. i would drop brother off at a restaurant adn do the pick up. damn... she was mean.

the courts here in texas finally said we had to split the drive. 7 hours for both of us. made it so much easier on the body, adn still, every. single. pick up. left us wondering if she would be there.

she made everything hard.

the interst of the child or parental concern was never there. it was always about how to make brother hurt.

my brother is the parent that did everything to shield adn protect the child, putting him at a real disadvantage, but higher road

the courts conclusion... brothers is the better parent, he must be in childs life, she needed him, BUT she was the mother and she wasnt like... beating... the kid. that was LA courts.

she got free lawyers thru programs. he paid.

she finally kidnapped daughter and refused to give for summer vacation adn she lost all rights to daughter at 11. daughter is 18 and still refuses to see mom, or talk to her on phone. she says that house was hell and she was always afraid.

doctors, ministers, school administration ALL supported brother in court, and he lost.

i have heard you before. i know why you are angry. i hear it when you talk about women as a whole. and still i understand why you are angry.

but

there are gender issues i will always talk about because it is about an imbalance of power. but, that also includes when there is that imbalance toward men, like this. there are things that i believe are issues with women, that i have brought up here on du, and i get my ass razzed by women. i have been called a man hater. but equally i have been called a self hating misogynist.

you are living in a little bet of hell right now. it lasted a long time for my brother. and when he got his daughter, she was awfully messed up. it hasnt been rosy since getting her.

i hope things get resolved for you all, for the best of the children. i take parenting seriously

on edit... are you getting them for fathers day? if so, hug them tight and happy fathers day.

[aquart]

19. I get sad on Father's Day.

All my fathers are dead.

[Eddie Haskell]

20. Happy Father's Day

x(

[no_hypocrisy]

22. Never have and still don't.

While we weren't religious fundamentalists, my father acted as if we were. My parents argued about everything as my mother (a graduate of two independent women's colleges) fought to get out from under his foot. My father expected everything to revolve around him as a narcissist and tsar. It was beyond being a responsible and reasonable father. If he told you to do something, no matter how foolish it was, you had to do it. I wasn't allowed to select the college I attended; it was his choice as he was paying for it.

I didn't escape as a child and adolescent. I grew up questioning his judgment and authority as they couldn't be trusted for my benefit. Like my mother, I argued with him too. My sister, by contrast, has wasted her life, seeking approval from this man, who didn't give her the approval that was not bestowed upon me. (She recently had an ephiphany that the approval never existed and has found this revelation to be devastating.)

In kind, he was equally angry and frustrated with me for not falling into step behind him. My siblings wished that I would shut up and not argue with him as his MO was punish all of us for my irrascible independent streak.

Law school was interesting. He discouraged me from seeking a scholarship to attend and three weeks before the first day of class, he got mad at me and told me he didn't have the money for the tuition. (He had the money; he was just punishing me.) I had my limit of paternal mind-fucking, so I told him, fine, I won't go to law school. The money was "restored" three weeks later. My graduation from law school was not a happy event. My father was mad at me for something else and the rest of the family fell into lockstep with him. All the photos show me beaming and the rest of them looking dyspeptic. I got the silent treatment at the "celebratory" dinner.

I honestly don't miss the approval as the search for the Holy Grail as described in the article in The Wall Street Journal. You can't miss something you've never had. If I had been spared the kind of attention my father gave to me, that would have pleased me well enough.

[PassingFair]

32. Well, at least you got an education out of the old bastard.

That had to be worth 50 to 100 thousand...

He sounds JUST like my mother's father.

MY dad called him "Little Boots", because he
strutted around and expected everyone to kow-tow
to him, and they (wife and 2 girls) DID.

My mother deliberately married a man that was
his exact opposite.

My father was tall, good-looking, easy-going,
fun-loving, smart and understanding.

He used to tell me that he LOVED it when my
mother subjected herself to visits with
"Little Boots" because when she came home, she
was so OVERJOYED to be back!

My mother still suffers from the way she was
raised by her parents, but she suffers much more
from the lack of love she received from her mother
than the pathological behavior of her father.

At least with her father, he laid down the rules of
behavior and if you followed them, nothing bad happened.
He also paid for her tuition to a private girl's school
for both daughters and then college.

My own father was a bit more impecunious, and we
kids had to finance our own secondary educations,
meaning to say only one of us graduated from college.

I wouldn't trade him for my grandfather, though,
there is not a day that goes by where I don't remember
him making me laugh and bolstering me in any dilemma.

I'm sorry your dad was a jerk.

:cry:

[no_hypocrisy]

33. + 1. I so hear you.

I had 3-1/2 years of psychological counseling (twice a week) to get straight on my emotions concerning my dad. I'm now at a point where I can joke with my siblings that we're now a support group. My brother and sister suffered more intensely than I did as they believed if they tried to be "perfect" by our father's standards, he would change. When they gave up their fantasy, it was hard but healthy for them.

I don't hate my father. Nor do I truly love him. I respect him in some ways. I also feel dedicated to looking out for his best interests as he's 88 and somewhat enfeebled. I remind myself that I'm taking care of my late mother's husband on her behalf and in her memory.

But while he can't love me, he also can't hurt me. I'm free.

[Missy Vixen]

34. Thank you so much for posting

>I honestly don't miss the approval as the search for the Holy Grail as described in the article in The Wall Street Journal. You can't miss something you've never had. If I had been spared the kind of attention my father gave to me, that would have pleased me well enough.<

I would have to say the same thing about my relationship with my father. Actually, "relationship" is a strong word. How about "family member by DNA donation only"?

My husband's grandpa is the father figure in our lives. Even if he disagrees with a decision we have made or an opinion we have, there is no doubt that he loves us. I know he is proud of me. This means nothing to anyone but us.

[no_hypocrisy]

36. Welcome to the Sisterhood.

:grouphug:

:hug:

:hi:

[SmileyRose]

27. My Dad is dead

He fathered 6 kids who are all now in their 50's and 60's. Each of us has a different opinion on what kind of Dad he was.

I miss him.
A lot.

[Dappleganger]

29. Gave up on that decades ago, now I don't want his approval at all...

if he approved of what I am doing or who I am, there's probably something wrong with it.

[malaise]

31. I had a great dad

and I was the family rebel so I often disagreed with his decisions (and moms) and made my own. I was lucky that both of my parents let me decide for myself and congratulated me on my decision-making long before they died.

Still I remember one summer when Mom was traveling and my siblings' boyfriends were terrified to ask dad if they could take them on dates. My boyfriend simply asked him if he could take me out and dad said sure. I did laugh. Dad and the boyfriend became good friends because they both loved sports, but dad said he liked him because he wasn't afraid of him.

Every father's day I play Oh My Papa in his memory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y04seHfYLAA

[Withywindle]

39. No, because I never doubted it for a moment.

My mother's approval has actually been much harder to win or perceive. In pushing me to achieve when I was young, my father was the "Good Cop" and my mom was the "Bad Cop." I think it made a difference that my father and I have and always had more interests and hobbies in common, therefore more things to talk about that weren't emotionally fraught.

I definitely still argue with my mother a lot more - but I love them both dearly.

[Raine]

40. I always did but he died 3 years ago. My father

was great he was always supportive. My father wanted the best for my brother and I. I remember him working overtime so he would have the money to send us to private schools, he worked so hard. My parents both sacrificed so much for us, I feel so lucky to have had the parents I had.

[Ilsa]

44. I stopped seeking his approval decades ago, but I dont

want to disappoint him or make me ashamed of me either. I have seen him more as an equal, a friend, in adulthood.

But now with the Parkinsons Disease, and his periodic mental problems, he is more like a child needing assistance.

[femmocrat]

47. I consider myself high-achieving and independent, but I never sought his approval.

My mother was the motivating force in our family. All of my siblings did well because of her doing whatever-it-took to send us to college. My dad was a very hard-worker but was less involved in our development. She set the high expectations and goals for us.

[iris27]

48. Never really did. It was evident even when I was small that nothing ever really made him happy.

I don't feel like it's 'missing' from my life, though. In fact, when I cut all ties with him, it actually gave me greater peace and freedom.

I do feel like I have a smaller circle of family to rely on than those who have good relationships with their fathers and the paternal side of their family. (My aunts, grandmother, and cousins on that side all insist that he could never have hit my mother, us kids, or the woman he married after my mother...we must all be lying/crazy). But that's just something that I think about, shrug, and go on with life.

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. I don't have to. He loves me unconditionally and is, quite possibly,

the major reason I did not follow my husband, that day not so long ago. He is a constant source of encouragement, not only to myself, but to everyone who knows him. I am lucky in that.