Solar’s getting cheaper, fast

[pampango]

"...solar PV (photovoltaic) is no longer a fringe, cost-prohibitive technology -- but, rather, a near-commodity that is quickly becoming competitive with new nuclear, new natural gas, and, soon, new coal."



"...solar brings a different kind of value to the grid. Not only can it be quickly deployed on existing infrastructure (warehouses, commercial buildings, residences) at rates that are orders of magnitude faster than nuclear, it offsets the most expensive peaking power plants -- providing immediate economic value."



"We are considerably lower than natural gas peaker plants," says Dinwoodie. "We're also coming in lower than new nuclear and becoming lower than new coal. Gigawatts of these plants are being developed in months -- not years or decades."

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/06/09/241120/solar-is-ready-now-%E2%80%9Cferocious-cost-reductions-make-solar-pv-competitive/

[robcon]

1. I suspect that solar will really grow when it becomes competitive to fossil fuels.

I hope that comes soon.

[ejpoeta]

3. i am so looking forward to the day when it is something within my reach!

It might not fix every problem, but it certainly has got to help.

[Bennyboy]

6. It already is

Call you solar installer now and in most states there are healthy rebates/subsidies etc...

The thing is, if you put solar on your house now, but an electric vehicle you are out of the loop on energy for 80% of your power and travel (of course you will still need a gas car for long trips etc, but even then it will last longer, cost less to insure etc)

[ejpoeta]

7. even with subsidies and rebates i think it is outside what we can afford right now.

we were looking into solar shingles for when we did the roof (which we just did). The cost was just not feasable for us. We have already replaced our windows a couple of years ago (which has nothing to do with solar) but did get a rebate and helped with energy. We also replaced our AC unit. Hopefully in a couple of years we will be able to afford something solar or wind related. Right now we are focusing on decreasing our energy usage. The windows helped with that as we can now open them to cool the house. Before we couldn't.

Plus we fixed the roof and put in a roof vent which surprisingly did a lot to cool it off in here making the need to use the AC less as well. We have put in two solar tubes and have CFL bulbs in every place we could put them. Might put some LED bulbs in some places too. And some smart powerbar things or just turning them off would help. Going to put a clothes line up hopefully this weekend after the hubby gets paid.

As much as we would love to do the solar panels, we just have so many things that we must take care of. We had to do the roof this year. We are doing the siding at the same time because Bob got a really good deal on the siding that we just couldn't pass up. And it really needs it. And it will give us the opportunity to seal up the house that never was done in the first place. Hopefully that will help with the energy.

I am hopeful that we will be able to do solar soon. I know it would be worth it in the end.

[TheWraith]

10. You would be right. Typical rate of return on a solar installation is 15-25 years.

Depending on the price of electricity in your area.

People talking up solar like to talk about peak power, but they forget to mention that it's only providing "peak power" for 2-5 hours a day depending on location.

[bullwinkle428]

2. This is what's making OPEC nervous right now.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. Looks like an increase equivelent to 9 new nuclear power plants in one year, from 2009 to 2010.

So much for those who say we have to build new nukes, as the only viable alternative to coal, to keep up with energy growth demands. There is every reason to believe, given that type of growth curve, that 2011 will see a solar production increase equal to 15 or more new nukes, and 2012 significantly more than that. Seems like going solar now would be a quicker fix for our energy needs than trying to build new nukes at this point, without even factoring in safety issues. And Solar has barely begun to tap the true economic potential of economy of scale.

[TheWraith]

12. Except that it's not even remotely close to that. More like one sixth of that.

"Peak power," that term that people love to throw around to make solar shipments seem huge, is only produced for a few hours per day around local noon. The rest of the time, much less or zero production. Meanwhile, other forms of power go on producing 24/7. The fact is that nobody has yet built a solar farm that can seriously compete with any other form of power: wind, nuclear, hydro, coal, what have you. All solar power put together is still the smallest of the non-asterisk energy sources.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. There wouldn't be nuclear power today were it not for the Manhattan Project

or a later equivelent. Solar has never remotely gotten that level of government research and devel;opment funding or ongoing subsidies the way the uranium fuel cycle has. It is slow to the market because the market protects its fossil fuel profits while the military needed nuclear. It is finally getting there anyway with only limited government support and marginal energy sector investments.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Come up with an idea for a solar bomb, and there will be a solar Manhattan Project

[kristopher]

13. By the end of this year China is expected to have factories making 35GW of panels/year

That is double what they had at the end of las year, and they just got into the sector in 2007.

At 35 gigiawatts the panels from one year's worth of factory production will, on average, produce about the same amount of electricity as 7 or 8 nuclear plants would produce. But that means 7-8 nuclear plants equivalent is being added to the global grid every year.

The total manufacturing capacity expected at the end of this year is 50GW of panels per year. The goal is to build that to about 1000GW worth of panels each year.

[WatsonT]

32. Likely they'll be selling those panels to the US

as they continue building coal powered plants.

[Uncle Joe]

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, pampango.

[slackmaster]

8. My rooftop PV system went live in mid-April. Since then two other homes within a stone's throw...

...also had rooftop PV systems installed.

I'm proud to be the first one on my block, but my status as sole solar co-generation facility disappeared quickly.

[Marrah_G]

29. Awesome- hows it working?

[Horse with no Name]

9. I have never understood why we don't have sheets and sheets of panels out in the desert southwest

and windmills for the areas that are prevalent for wind

and water power where there is water


I am sorry for those that think that it destroys the beauty of our earth...this doesn't?

[ejpoeta]

11. +1!

[TheWraith]

14. Because enough solar to supply US energy needs would be about 47,000 square miles.

That's a bit over half of Nevada.

[rfranklin]

15. sounds like a bargain...

Isn't most of Nevada empty?

[Kelvin Mace]

16. And we need half of Nevada why?

:)

Seriously, given the population density of Nevada of 25 people per sq. mile, 50 is not that bad.

D.C. is 9800 per sq mile!

The real problem is a power grid capable of moving the power around. Our grid sucks lemons big time.

[Horse with no Name]

17. I'd venture to say if this is what we wanted to do, we would

Texas has a total of 268,820 sq. miles of area. Arizona is 113,998 sq miles. New Mexico is 121,598 sq miles. Nevada is 110567 sq. miles.

These four states combine to almost 615,000 sq. miles...I have driven this area and I am pretty certain that if we wanted to find 47,000 uninhabited sq. miles, we would.

[Enthusiast]

23. It is a matter of will.

It won't be done with the fossil fuel industry in control.

[Enthusiast]

22. We should just give up on solar, right?

Is that you, Rush?

[MadHound]

24. And spread out over the rest of the country,

That's about having a solar panel on half of all roofs in this country. Look! We still have Nevada:eyes:

[slampoet]

36. And that is a two year old number for less efficiency. Also the yield will increase as the project

is built.

Also we aren't talking all. Just a good dent.

[WatsonT]

33. For the same reason we don't fill the desert with nuclear plants

instead putting them by cities: people don't live in the desert. People need electricity, not cacti. And transmitting electricity over long distances is extremely wasteful.

[FLPanhandle]

19. Battery technology is better now too

At the Miami boat show this year, I noticed that the number of sailboats with solar based power A/C and refrigeration has jumped dramatically.

[FLPanhandle]

20. Dupe

[bloomington-lib]

21. I can't say Bush deliberately made solar power more expensive but

it's funny how it goes up in 2001 and down in 2008.

[dems_rightnow]

25. Yep, that would be dumb

Thanks for not saying it, and joining the crowd who thinks Obama controls gasoline prices. Stupidity.

[Juche]

26. Sun electronics has PV panels for $1.60 now

That is about the cheapest I've seen them.

http://www.sunelec.com/

Companies like first solar that make thin film supposedly have gotten their costs down to $0.60/watt to manufacture them, but they only wholesale them to large buyers right now and don't sell on the individual market. I have no idea what the end retail cost would be.

Installation is still a major cost though. I think final cost is about $3.50-$4 per watt installed for a system where the panels cost $1.60 a watt. But there is a 30% federal tax credit, so a $4/watt system will cost $2.80 per watt. Plus there are various state rebates in many states too.

If the installed cost drops to $2.00 a watt within the decade, which I'm sure it will, then that'll be interesting to see esp if there are still tax rebates and credits for doing solar.

The average home needs about 5-10k watts of solar to be independent (but you'd still need to be connected to the grid to sell energy during the day and take it in at night).

[slampoet]

35. I saw those Solar powered path lights 2 for a dollar at the dollar store recently and thought of

cannibalizing the panels. Darn that is cheap.

[Heretofor]

27. Really that affordable?

Is solar power REALLY that cheap, when subsidies are counted (which means I am paying for someone else's cheap energy out of my taxes and power bills)?

Is the manufacturing process really earth-friendly?

[Marrah_G]

28. My fiance is taking a class at the local college on Solar systems and installation

The parts are definitely coming down in price and his class was full of electricians who know this will be a market in the future and are hoping onboard.

We plan to be completely solar by this time next year.

Getting rid of the mortgage, most utilities, growing/raising our own food.

People will need to learn to live differently and in small communities or extended families to share costs. It's the only way we can do it. We have 1 retired adult, 3 working adults, 2 adults in college (one will finish courses in a few weeks) and one who will be a senior in HS.

[IDemo]

31. This leaves out solar thermal, which is the bulk of utility solar power

Solar thermal is cheaper to build and more efficient than photovoltaic. Plus, the thermal energy can be stored in various mediums, and those using a Stirling genset can use other fuels such as landfill gas at nighttime or during low sunlight periods.

http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/going/solar-thermal-vs-solar-pv/

[OpenUp]

34. Reliant Solar?

I'm looking forward to going all solar at some point this summer. My local energy company here in TX is Reliant Energy, and they've been hinting at "Solar Solutions" coming soon. Does anyone have any experience with their solar, or know what they're working on?