You decide. Drivers fault or not?

[Serve The Servants]

SUV runs over mother and child at intersection.
Don't worry, both survived with minor injuries (thankfully!), but video is still shocking, so do not view if you are easily freaked out

After viewing the video a few times, I tend to think the Mother was being careless.
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WHEN CROSSING THE STREET PEOPLE!!!

http://www.newsy.com/videos/mother-child-hit-by-an-suv-and-survive/

[flvegan]

1. Did I not see brake lights at all?

[TheWraith]

11. I once almost smashed into the back of another car at 50 miles per hour.

The other person was ahead of me, making a turn onto a side road. I was coming up behind, and went to slow down to give him time to turn. I couldn't. I had to swerve between him and the guardrail on the right hand side of the road in order to avoid slamming into him. My brakes were just gone. I discovered afterward that a brake line had rotted through, resulting in a pretty much total, instant loss of the brakes.

Yes, this person could have been distracted/drunk/stupid/obnoxious, but it's not always that simple.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Here's where assigning blame of accidents gets tricky.

There is a doctrine called "Last Clear Chance" where a motorist safely operating a vehicle, following all regulations and statutes, finds him/herself about to encounter a surprise that could conclude with a personal injury or death. The driver has a duty to try to avoid that accident to the best of his/her ability and not just surrender to destiny. For example, a pedestrian steps out into the street without looking and your car likely will hit that person. The pedestrian is putting him/herself in danger, not the driver. In order to avoid liability, if the driver has enough time, the driver needs to brake or safely swerve into another lane to avoid that potential accident. If the accident happens and it's found that the driver could have avoided the accident, the blame is shared between the driver and the pedestrian in states that have comparative negligence.

[Serve The Servants]

8. Thanks for the explanation

I've watched this over and over and I believe the mother may have been in the driver's blind spot - Mother moving laterally, while vehicle moving forward; she could have been hidden by the edge of the windshield or even the rear-view mirror. What gets me is how the driver could not HEAR any impact on the vehicle, contact was obviously made. Maybe the stereo was blaring - who knows?

Regardless, it was stupid in my opinion, to just to run across the intersection like that as traffic began to move. She should have just stayed in place in front of the RV which DID see her, and return to her side of the intersection.

[KT2000]

17. I can see that

but my driver's ed teacher had been the driver when he swerved to avoid hitting a deer and his entire family died in the accident. He drilled into us over and over to never swerve. He said hitting whatever would be safer. That was over 40 years ago and I still automatically follow what he said, until I can force myself into swerving to avoid hitting something. :shrug: I don't know how an insurance company would judge that situation but I could guess.

[no_hypocrisy]

18. It's a true judgment call. You're not obligated to swerve if it can't be done safely.

That's the criteria: safety when trying to avoid an accident.

[hlthe2b]

3. As a very frequent dog-walker, general pedestrian, biker, and car

driver-- I am horrified of what I have experienced, on both sides of the equations. The penchance for some bikers to not following traffic rules is not a new phenomenon, but with the advent of cell phones, game boards, and mp3 players, more and more pedestrians seem to acquire a "zomby"-like state, totally oblivious to all around them. No wonder my local park has had an uptick in muggings and assaults... But also, there is an dramatic increase in pedestrian accidents in recent years.

As a pedestrian, I can likewise point the finger the other way. I can not tell you how often I have been nearly hit, in the middle of a crosswalk with the "walk" light lit or at stop signs, where someone decides to outrun oncoming traffic to make a left turn--or turns right rapidly without stopping or even slowing down. Then, of course, the same issues with distracted drivers on cell phones, or doing Gawd knows what.

We are a distracted, often careless and impatient society... Unfortunately, we had a woman and baby in stroller killed just a few months back, simply trying to cross the road. In that case, the fault of the driver was without doubt.

Sad...

[tpsbmam]

41. As a born & bred New York City-er,

I'd watch women in particular walking at times when they were in danger (e.g., pre-bed dog walking) walking blithely along with headphones on while on a pretty deserted street at night. I tried to walk my dog at the same time each night before bed -- the dog walkers on my block could usually be counted on to be out at the same time, thus creating safety in numbers. On a couple of occasions, the usual weren't out to create that safety -- I always walked my dog as quickly as possible and went in under those circumstances.

I went out one of those nights and did see one other woman walking her small dog....she was wearing headphones. I saw similar incidences of this all over the city. I saw tons of women doing it walking and jogging in Central Park. Every time I thought, "is she fucking insane???" No way in hell would I dull that critically important sense while walking around NYC under circumstances when it would be easy to grab me.

I'm guessing the dummy with the headphones would have been oblivious to what I encountered one night when I was the sole dog walker on my quiet block. I had a guy start following me -- I walked quickly to the busy avenue closest to my building and changed directions a few times -- it was clear he was following me. No way was I going to walk back down my quiet street and go into my building! I finally hailed a cab and got a really nice cab driver who, for no fee (I didn't have a penny with me) took me and my dog around a couple of blocks and then drove me to my building and waited until I was in the locked inside door before taking off. Lucky me to get such a great guy! And if I'd been zoning out listening to music.... I hate to think.

[EFerrari]

51. I've wound up in the wrong place in my long rambles with my dog.

It's not hard to do and it can happen really quickly, too, in a city.

[hlthe2b]

56. I'm always very cautious late at night, but with an aging big doggy

whose hearing, night eyesight, and general reflexes aren't quite what they used to be, I no longer depend on her as an absolute deterrent factor as I could when she was younger, even during the daytime. I am careful about listening to an ipod in certain areas when out walking and then, only with earphones that allow some of the ambient noise in and only during populated daytime conditions.

I fear a lot of people are going to be learning some hard lessons. :shrug:

[underpants]

4. Large intersection - lots of "should haves"

the Mother should have stopped at the median
the SUV driver should have seen them

Everyone seemed to be in complete hurry.

[KittyWampus]

15. The SUV couldn't have seen them because of the large white van stopped in the left turn lane.

[blondeatlast]

21. I know that intersection (I think, North Scottsdale, I believe).

It's very busy even though the cross street is an artery, not a main road. my bet is mom was running for a bus and realized that the BUS driver couldn't see her.

[hedgehog]

5. Once the driver kept going, didn't it become a hit and run?

:shrug:

[Vanje]

10. Hit and run

And if the driver, really didnt realize she had mowed down 2 people, then suspect DUI too.

It was odd that the SUV was stopped so far behind the cross-walk. The white vehicle impeded the view , but would'nt have , if the SUV had been nearer the crosswalk. It was weird. Again, I wonder if the driver was impaired.

I can understand why the driver may not have seen the pedestrians, but she sure as hell should've felt them!

[Serve The Servants]

12. Agreed.

But hard to tell how far the driver drove once she was out of frame of the video. No mention of hit-and-run either.

[anneboleyn]

27. Yes, the driver seemed very oblivious to me -- no slowing at all! No brakes at all. Strange.

The car was accelerating from a complete standstill, plowed through the intersection and ran right over the child and stroller. It baffles me that driver didn't seem to react to any of this, at all. I would have hit my brakes immediately. Running over a stroller would make quite a racket.

[tammywammy]

20. The driver did stop

Since the article noted they had received a citation and it wasn't for a "hit and run."


edited to add:
"The unidentified driver was issued a civil citation at the scene, but police say it was later dismissed based on the video.

Police wrote the following statement regarding the incident:

Given the new evidence presented by the video, the investigating officer has requested the original citation given to the SUV driver be dismissed. The video shows the pedestrians run into the path of the vehicle that was so close that it was difficult for the driver to yield."

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northeast_valley/scottsdale/scottsdale-police-release-video-of-mother,-daughter-hit-by-car

[ChrisBorg]

6. Not at fault for the accident but they should have stopped the car.

The driver was probably freaked out of their mind. Still should have stopped.

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. From someone who HAS hit a jay walker, I can tell you it is absolutely horrifying.

For them not to stop, either they didn't notice or they simply were not human.

What I noticed about this video, which was also true of my experience, everyone else is quick to flee the scene. Nobody gives a shit, nobody can be bothered to stop.

[Vanje]

13. A dark small pick up did stop , finally

Can be seen on the last repeat of the video.

[NYC_SKP]

9. With boulevards that large, there should be a pedestrian "waiting area" at the island mid-way...

There often isn't enough time to cross both directions of traffic (sometimes 8 lanes or more) unless you start right at the beginning of the "walk" time and then hurry up.

[KittyWampus]

16. Good point. Our country isn't designed for pedestrians for the most part.

[blondeatlast]

22. If it is where I think it is, the direction mom was crossing is indeed a long

cross but there is a traffic island. The cross street is a single lane in both direx. Lots of traffic too; there's a hospital to the north and the area is always very busy. I'm pretty certain it is in north Scottsdale.

[NYC_SKP]

24. Nine lanes, if they were crossing Shea on the East side of 90th, there is no island.

On the West side of 90th there seems to be a narrow island.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=90th+Street+and+Shea+Boulevard,+scottsdale,+az&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.114675,86.572266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=E+Shea+Blvd+%26+N+90th+St,+Scottsdale,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85260&ll=33.582553,-111.886061&spn=0.000515,0.001321&t=h&z=20

Just not build for pedestrian, our sprawling western "cities".

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

31. I thought it was CLOSE to Shea Blvd. but not Shea itself (90th St. and Ironwood was my guess). .

Either way, the whole area is miserable for traffic and a "life in your hands" prospect for pedestrians; not at all friendly for peds. )))shudder(((

I am in the area quite often.

[tammywammy]

54. If you zoom in to street view

And compare to the angle of the video, they were crossing on the side with the little median.

[KittyWampus]

14. That large white van in the left turn lane blocked the SUV's view of pedestrians who should not have

been crossing.

[rainy]

19. I agree. They walked right out in front of an accelerating

vehicle. There is no way that the driver of the SUV could have seen them coming because of the white truck. She probably didn't see the child ever and I'm not sure why she didn't see the mother after she struck them.

[blondeatlast]

43. Look again at the video I posted downthread (from the traffic cam, unedited).

The SUV driver was not accelerating even though other cars had proceeded. SUV stays at a dead stop for at least 1-2 seconds before going even though other cars were proceeding. SUV driver then realizes the light had changed but at least one pedestrian was within SUV sight when the accident happened.

Watch it a few times--the SUV driver was NOT paying attention.

[blondeatlast]

23. I think I know this insection--and my guess is that mom was running to catch a bus. I've seen near

misses before related to that.

I think it is located in north Scottsdale and is a 3 lane road, plus a left and right turn lane, running north and south.

It looks VERY similar to the intersec where my PC physician is located.

[Liberal_in_LA]

25. At a big bus hub near me, people get off the north/south bus and run like

crazy against red lights to catch the east/west bus despite big signs warning them not to do it.

[pansypoo53219]

26. pedestrians are fucked, BUT

i was driving down a fairly busy street and a woman with 3 kids and a stoller YAPPING ON FUCKING CELL PHONE startes jaywalking SLOWLY in front of the car i m driving. oh, she did not look EITHER way before starting. only her oldest boy was alarmed at seeing my car. i seriously hope she is hit by something or she will never learn.

i heard a story on NPR about how walk signals are way too short in L.A. seems it isn't the only one.

[JVS]

28. Only person who did the right thing in the video was the kid walking.

The bus was also ok.
SUV shouldn't have been waiting so far back, then they'd have seen the pedestrian.
Prius shouldn't have moved until x-walk cleared.
The woman was dumb to charge.

[blondeatlast]

40. Yep, the SUV was too far back--and very slow to accelerate

compared to the rest of the traffic. The citation was rescinded, but I still think the SUV driver shares a great deal of blame.

[Lucian]

29. It comes down to both the mother and the driver.

The mother was stupid for walking out in the street when the sign turned and the driver should've been more careful in looking around his/her surroundings. Blaming it on the big white vehicle to the driver's left is no excuse.

[blondeatlast]

32. I know the area VERY well and I'm guessing Mom was rushing to catch a bus.

I've seen that sort of thing a few times in the area--the prospect of waiting another 30 mins. in shadelss 100 degree weather might make me make the same choice--and I've lived in this area most of my life, I'm steeled to the heat.

[Taitertots]

38. No amount of careful looking will make obstructed objects visible

No amount of careful looking will make it possible to stop your car as someone rushes in front of it (edit) from behind concealment.

[Lucian]

42. The driver took off in a hurry.

He/She is just as much at fault. Also, I didn't see any brake lights on the vehicle.

[Taitertots]

44. There is no reasonable way to assume the driver could have avoided the accident

The women all but dove under the tires after it had already started moving. The women is totally at fault.

[SoDesuKa]

47. Watch the Road!

Fundamental rule of driving is to watch the road in front of you. If you're waiting for the light to turn green, that does not excuse you from the most fundamental rule of driving.

This driver should have gone to jail.

[Taitertots]

49. I can't see through other vehicles, can you?

No amount of looking will make it so you can see through solid objects.

If anything the mother deserves to go to jail for being so negligent with her child, pushing it directly in front of a moving car.

[SoDesuKa]

30. Emphatically the Driver's Fault

Anytime you hit something in front of you, it's your fault. Especially at an intersection.

[blondeatlast]

33. There's that, too. Most people aren't aware of this fact either legally or

physically.

[Taitertots]

46. Sounds absolutist and void of thinking

The pedestrian is at fault for running directly from behind concealment, in front of a car, when they should not have been in the road.

[SoDesuKa]

52. Obstructed View

The driver certainly knew his view was obstructed. That's sufficient reason for greater caution, not less.

I tend to be absolutist about the obligation of drivers to watch the road in front of them. This driver was looking at the traffic light, not at the road. He ran over two people. He should go to jail.

[slackmaster]

34. I have monocular vision and have come frighteningly close to hitting pedestrians that way many times

I can't see through or around the posts between the windshield and the side windows. I have to move my head around a lot.

That one was definitely the fault of the pedestrians. They were jaywalking, crossing against the light. They were hidden by the white van, then walked right into the SUV driver's blind spot. The mom deserves to be cited for that.

[JonLP24]

35. I seen that awhile ago

on the local news. That looks like a 12 News (local NBC) clip they showed.

My reaction at the time was the driver probably didn't expect pedestrians to walk across at the moment and the light probably turned green judging by the other cars moving followed by the vehicle in question.

[blondeatlast]

36. The raw footage (the news vid is SLIGHTLY edited). The peds were between a rock and a hard place

but the SUV pulled forward slower than the rest of the drivers--I think the driver should have been able to see them, :shrug:

http://www.vimeo.com/24186703

[Taitertots]

37. Darwin rolls in his grave

That was a combination of epic negligence and mind blowing stupidity. She all but dove under the wheels.

[Fla_Democrat]

39. Not the drivers fault for the accident

WAS the drivers fault for not stopping after the accident.

[SoDesuKa]

45. Looking Up at the Light

The driver was not watching the road in front of him; he was waiting for the light to turn green. The most fundamental rule of the road is to watch what's in front of you.

[blondeatlast]

55. I agree with you, but we're quite outnumbered. nt

[tammywammy]

50. The driver was cited at the scene, the driver did stop. n/t

[WatsonT]

48. Seems like the driver couldn't have seen the woman very easily

stupid decision on the moms part.

[Little Star]

53. It appeared to me that the mother started to run but the other...

walker was much more cautious. I'm not saying that makes her guilty of anything it's just an observation.