Where do you stand on this Capt. Honors flap?

[Stinky The Clown]

I'm ambivalent. I think, at the core, no harm was intended. I don't know what, or if there was a gay slur or slurs. Were there sexist remarks?

What makes me want to side with the Captain is that the Navy knew about this four years ago and did nothing. When the Norfolk newspaper, the Virginian Pilot, got the tapes and released them, the Navy, apparently, went bugfuck.

And maybe Honors got scapegoated.

I don't know all the facts, but my sense is to side with Honors.

How about you?

[slackmaster]

1. A good leader would never allow himself to be put in a position where he could be scapegoated

So even if there weren't any slurs or sexist or otherwise inappropriate remarks, he made himself a target and is unworthy of command rank.

[underpants]

2. He is an asshole.

that's where I stand.

[NWHarkness]

3. Keelhaul him. n/t

[bluestate10]

4. He earned a firing. nt

[WhiteTara]

5. he shouldn't be in charge of anything

much less a Navy vessel. That certainly doesn't bode well for good interpersonal relationships on a close quarter ship.

[LiberalFighter]

6. Make him walk the plank. Along with the two buddies of his in the vidoe.

I know all three are him.

They should make him walk the plank naked and make sure he has several cuts to draw sharks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I had command of a company.

so as somebody who has exercised the privilege of command I can tell you, this shit is corrosive to good order, discipline and moral.

Oh and it will NOT end there with Captain Honors.

His former CO will also face the music since he told him to stop, but took no further action after a legal lawful order was given. and likely counseled to leave the service. The two riders... may get letters of reprimand in their files.

[xchrom]

8. Mildly ironic. The military is fairly or has been fairly

Consistent in it's homophobia.

So someone with weight makes it 'obvious'
And the bust him for PR purposes.

[Iggo]

9. Damn right the piece of shit got scapegoated.

Just because the Navy did nothing four years ago doesn't mean that they shoudn't have.

They're covering their ass now, but he's still a piece of shit. Fuck him.

[me b zola]

10. I'm guessing by the responses in this thread

...that none of the responses come from Shellbacks :D

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Heh!

:thumbsup:

[panzerfaust]

23. You would be wrong

... as was Honors.

E6: 4 years active, 8 reserve, and a shellback several times over.

[me b zola]

25. My clairvoyance skills are limited

I was of course speaking only about the responses that came before me, #1-9. Were you ever King Neptune?

[scarletwoman]

11. He's an idiot. If your idea of promoting "esprit de corps" is a video of "chicks" showering together

you are NO kind of leader. You are, in fact, a total dickhead and dumbass.

[petronius]

12. I'm generally against all-or-nothing punishments, although in all arenas it seems

like calls for firing (or worse) crop up at the slightest offense. But the navy seems to always have a "one mistake and you're out" policy for captains (which isn't that bad an idea when the job is commanding a billion $$ nuclear armed vessel, I suppose).

Based just on the descriptions of the videos I'd say that he deserves to be sanctioned but not fired. However, I tip over to thinking he should be gone based on that quote from him about "gutless" complaints - that alone makes me question his leadership abilities...

[Uben]

13. Conduct unbecoming of an officer

He is supposed to set an example for his command. Teenage antics don't cut it for an officer. They were right to relieve him of command, IMO.

[LuckyLib]

14. He's an immature simpleton who shouldn't be within 20 miles of anything nuclear,

much less commanding an aircraft carrier in a position of leadership. Clearly elevated to the level of his incompetence. Throw the bum out. There are many men AND women who would take that work seriously and respectfully. Real leaders, not macho posturing juveniles.

[Mumble]

15. Higher ups always get off easy...

...while the peons take the blame for everything. About time he gets what he deserves. Someone in the lower ranks would be punished severely.

[JohnnyLib2]

16. Major error in judgment, IMO.

I'd be surprised if it's his only one. We'll see how the story develops, but he had to go....

[GeorgeGist]

17. I sense you're not ...

GBLT

[hedgehog]

18. Setting aside the actual content of the videos, what duties did

he neglect to make himself the star of those videos?

I'm assuming the videos were meant to convey information regarding safety rules or some such. This can be done with a talking head and or dramatized to catch people's interest. in either case, the actual production of the video should have gone to a junior officer.

Now, as for the videos themselves, an XO is not supposed to be everyone's best buddy. An XO is especially not supposed to encourage sexism and homophobia.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. They were not operational

[hedgehog]

29. If they weren't at sea or on station, then he should have been even

busier than normal! I 'm assuming that if the ship was in the yard, all kinds of repairs and refitting would have been going on, not to mention training, shuffling personnel on and off the ship and taking on stores. Regardless, the XO of a ship that size has better things to do than to produce and star in vanity videos!

[TxVietVet]

42. The XO is THE man before the Captain.

He is to set an example of how an officer shall lead and command troops. Whatever he was trying to do, it ended up being "conduct unbecoming of an officer." Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the Navy silenced the first critics and only after civilians got wind of the videos did the Navy do anything to him.

He deserves his punishment the same as he would have dished out while he was XO

[noamnety]

43. The videos weren't about safety rules or other info.

It was literally cuts of him sitting around saying the F word in different settings, giving the finger to the camera, shots of different people in the shower - cropped not to show X rated parts, but with one guy soaping up another, with two women extremely close in the shower, culminating I think with him stepping into the shower with an attractive woman (presumably someone under his command). Oh, and the scenes of him simulating masturbating.

[EFerrari]

19. He was just acting out the culture. And sure, he was scapegoated.

As Scahill said, if he'd just have filmed some torture, he'd be fine.

[panzerfaust]

22. "Flap"

When I read that word, I already knew what you would say.

He dishonored his crew, his ship, the Navy and our country.



One would have thought that Tailhook would have been enough embarrassment to last Naval Aviation for longer than this.

[NuclearDem]

24. None of my squadron commanders in the USAF would've pulled crap like this

And yet there were all still respected and obeyed when an order was given.

He might have been in command (or second in command), but the people he was addressing were still his fellow servicemen. You don't call your fellow sailors f*****s and bleeding hearts for having a sense of decency and expect good order and discipline to follow.

Not only that, but the Enterprise has a special place in my heart, and I refuse to see such a ship tarnished with that sort of trash. Now what happens if there's a sexual assault onboard? Or sexual harassment complaints? Then Honors will have been complicit in establishing an environment that allowed it to happen.

[MineralMan]

26. He displayed very poor judgment. A man who is the captain

of a nuclear aircraft carrier should not have poor judgment, in my opinion. The Navy is doing the right thing. He'll resign shortly.

[Tx4obama]

27. I am thrilled that Owen Honors has been relieved of command.

A naval officer making a video that contains simulated masturbation, feces consumption and anal probing is not behavior becoming of an officer.

An officer that would approve of and take part in such a thing is immature, exhibits bad judgment, and has no business being in charge of a ship or of personnel.

If this is what our Navy has come to then major changes need to be made ASAP!

p.s. And 'anyone' that approves of a naval officer making a film/video that contains simulated masturbation, feces consumption and anal probing has lost their moral decency, in my opinion.

[Angry Dragon]

28. Pacard or Kirk never would have done anything like this

[AnnieBW]

40. Kirk would have just banged all of the females

And you know it.

[lonestarnot]

30. hmmmf.

No comment.

[WestSeattle2]

31. What I saw of those tapes.......an embarrassing lapse in

judgment. Enough to destroy a man's career though? Not in my opinion.

In today's world, one must assume that everything we say or do in public may end up on some Tube for all the world to see.

I realize these tapes are five years old; but the same held true then.

[madinmaryland]

32. Would you consider Capt. Honors to be a homophobe??

[1badjedi]

33. As a former hospital corpsman

I can say I never met such an unprofessional officer in my time in. In fact, I met very few who loosened up enough even to show they might actually be human. I did meet some that were cool in their way but I can count them on 1 hand.

When I say cool I mean they pointed out my shortcomings in a lighthearted manner instead of making me feel stupid or demean me.

This guy is a clown and I wonder how he ever became an officer in the first place.

[HEyHEY]

34. Off the cuff, seems to me it's a way to make DADT an issue again

[noamnety]

35. He deserves what he gets, and probably more.

He stated in this video that he had complaints from the crew that his videos were sexually offensive. His response in the video was a slur and dismissive comments about the "bleeding hearts and faggots" who had issues with him.

Once a supervisor has been informed that their behavior is creating a hostile work environment, they don't get to continue the behavior and get excused because their boss "didn't tell them it was wrong." He knew it was wrong, he admitted it in the video, and then went out of his way to do more of it and broadcast it to those same employees using government equipment.

He didn't even need to hear about the complaints to know it was wrong, in the military we get PLENTY of training on sexual harassment and how to handle those situations. There's no chance he was unaware he was acting inappropriately even without the complaints - but he made the video after the initial complaints about his videos were documented.

The Navy fucked up by covering it up, but that's not any excuse for his actions. It just means those involved in not disciplining him from the start are equally at fault.

Edit to answer: "Were there sexist remarks?"
Just one sample scene here: He videotaped himself simulating masturbating and ejaculating fake white goop on his shoes - and broadcast that to all his employees using government equipment. Can you think of any situation where there would even be a gray area as to whether that's appropriate behavior for a male boss to continue send to his female employees - after there had already been complaints about it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. His CO (now Rear Admiral) told him to knock it off

and he kept ongoing... after a legal lawful order was given.

I expect his CO to also face the music for NOT escalating it. This should have stopped at the moment his Captain told him... XO knock it off!

[UTUSN]

36. Uh, he's a total a-hole and unfit to be in any leadership position?!1

And his sense of humor is juvenile.

[Withywindle]

37. What 'stand' is there to take on this?

It was homophobic, misogynistic, hateful, juvenile garbage. It appeals to a vicious frat-boy mentality and alienates everyone else. The ironically-named Honors sucks and should be disciplined HARD (and not in any way he might like).

Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Yeah, he might be being scapegoated, but he went to a great deal of effort to put himself out there as a particularly special jackass with a neon sign on his head. No sympathy from me. The fact that the Navy knew about it for years and did nothing is a clear signal to take a good hard look at his superiors too, not to let the creep off the hook.

[AnnieBW]

38. He's following in the tradition of another Captain of the Enterprise

James T (for Tomcat) Kirk!

[TxVietVet]

39. The Navy and Honors silenced the initial critics or whistle blowers.

That's what I got out of the initial report. Honors was an up and coming Capt'n, bucking for a star. A ring-knocker from the Naval Academy. The skids are usually greased for those guys up top so they get an easy ride while they are up on top. I believe they were making a documentary to dis gays/lesbians and women. I'm surprised they didn't insult minorities while he was at it.

[peekaloo]

44. Who knew simulated masturbation would result in an actual discharge?

he seems like an ass clown.

[WestSeattle2]

45. LOL! Well, that's something to ponder.

[kimi]

46. He's got to go, simple as that

He was in a position to command respect from younger folks who looked to him for leadership. I sure as hell do not want up-and-coming enlistees and officers to think that the behavior this loon exhibited should be condoned or tolerated in any way. That's how Tailhooks happen, it's how sexual harassment can be "put into context". *sarcasm* NO superior officer should ever utter the word "fag", in a public setting. It's not in his purview to do so, he's there to be a professional, not to broadcast homophobic s&*t.

And everyone who knew about these videos should face the same music. They are all adults. They should act like it. I'm glad that the Navy is all over this, gives me faith that it can be done. I know someone who assisted with a sexual harassment survey at the Naval Academy several years ago - very alarming results. This should be taken very very seriously.

Lose the moron.