You cannot swiftboat the killing of Bin Laden

[malaise]

That is the real ReTHUG problem going forward.

[aquart]

1. But they're trying so hard. No A for effort?

[NYC_SKP]

2. There's a LOT of effort to turn Barack Obama into the bad guy behind this...

...and to make Osama Bin Laden the victim.

Noam Chomsky, for example, referred to him thusly:

"There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition—except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial."

http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2652/noam_chomsky_my_reaction_to_os/

It makes me a little sick, this kind of hyperbole.

:patriot:

[malaise]

3. I think Noam's question is valid

International law and all of that but that is not a line ReTHUGS can use. They don't even support laws as old as the Spanish inquisition.

I am quite conflicted over the process used, but since ReTHUGS are the ones who made Bin Laden the lynchpin of their war on terror, they cannot swift boat Obama over this one or they tear all of their own arguments to shreds.

change symbols

[Solly Mack]

4. That's very true

[EFerrari]

15. Precisely. The Republicans are f#cked on this one.

Liz Cheney must have her therapist on the speed dial these days.

[malaise]

17. Hehehehehhe

That made me laugh :rofl:

[suffragette]

19. Very good points you make in this post

[bluestate10]

6. Republicans don't have to work hard with people like Chomsky and Kucinich

are happy to do the dirty work for them.

[malaise]

7. I disagree - both of those men have been consistent

with regard to rule of law and international law.

[Heidi]

13. Dissent is a right I very much value. Dissent does not necessarily = OBL is a victim. (nt)

[NYC_SKP]

14. Heidi, it's exactly what he wrote. I'm not making this up. (nt)

[EFerrari]

16. Chomsky was referring to a specific situation

and you are taking his statement and claiming he said bin Laden is a victim in general which he did not.

There is no hyperbole in his statement. It's very precise.

[Heidi]

21. And the Bush analogy was especially salient, in my opinion.

Just in my opinion.

[Heidi]

20. I read what Chomsky wrote, and I read what you wrote.

We either stand for human rights -- and that includes international standards for how the accused, however convinced we are of his guilt, should be treated -- with or without impending 2012 presidential elections, or we don't.

I personally didn't spend a second mourning OBL. What I do mourn is our collective willingness to turn a blind eye to the values we claim make our nation great.

What is the principle you're so vigorously defending here?

[NYC_SKP]

22. Never mind, Heidi.

There isn't a principal I'm vigorously defending except that words matter.

If we want to accept use of the term "victim" to describe OBL, well, I'm just going to let that go.

[Heidi]

23. No, not "never mind."

Please stop coupling defense of a principle with victimization of OBL. That's crap, and you know it. And frankly, as a former DU mod myself, I expect more and better of DU moderators than what you started here. I'm not calling you out -- lest my post be deleted on that basis. I'm asking you to THINK. I'm pointing out the importance of principles. The Admins have said that DU discourse should be about principles, not people -- Chomsky is a person defending a principle, but you have admitted that there's no principle that you're defending.

Where does that leave us as a community?

[NYC_SKP]

24. In casually, on not, using the term "victim" in describing what the events around the killing of OBL

Chomsky diminishes real victims everywhere.

It's as simple as that.

This is not his best bit of writing, describing the event as if it was happening to some innocent unwitting family dude in New Jersey.

I'm sorry, that doesn't work for me, that's a rhetorical device that is beneath a man of his wisdom and intellect.

Meanwhile, Michael Moore is doubting that the burial at sea story is legitimate.

I don't think my reply above suggested anything more than than sometimes those on the left make asses of themselves, in my humble opinion, and they do not really add to the discussion in a substantive way.

Were I to opine about the alternatives to what we did, the only thing better, maybe, (IMO) would have been to do nothing at all.

:shrug:

[Heidi]

25. As I said, dissent is something I value. Moore and Chomsky are defending principles.

What you're defending, besides the marginalization of dissenters, is not quite clear. Saying that people make asses of themselves is stating the obvious and contributes nothing to what should be a discussion of ideas/principles. Extrajudicial execution flies in the face of everything we supposedly value as a nation and more specifically as progressives, and I don't see how objecting to exteajudicial execution, however poorly expressed, constitutes making an ass of oneself. The principles here are the rule of law and the right to dissent. General failure to defend these principles also diminishes victims -- and probably to a greater extent than the words of Chomsky.

[somone]

5. Yeah, unarmed elderly man killed in front of daughter, wife and son shot

Pakistani authorities demand an explanation. GOP deplores lack of tasers for U.S. troops
:sarcasm:

[bluestate10]

9. And that from the party that profess to love the troops so much.

In reality, the economic circumstances for troops have improved dramatically under President Obama. We no longer see and hear about the sad reality of forced, multiple tours of duty and military families applying for food stamps.

[BeyondGeography]

8. Huge problem for them

Bill Maher asked the right question of Republicans the other night. After ruining the economy and failing to catch the most wanted terrorist in the world for eight years: What exactly are you good at?

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. I know. It's been awfully silent of late from their side. Too silent.

[mmonk]

11. You forget in this country, a President felt he had to show he was an American.

Anything is possible in an insane asylum.

[malaise]

12. You know looking backwards at the week I don't think

he felt that he had to - he chose to show it because he knew what else was coming. He crushed them like bugs last week.

[Zax2me]

18. Giving okay to kill Bin Laden proved that more than birth cert.

In many peoples minds....

[tblue37]

26. I don't know about that. As Mark Twain said,

"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth even gets its pants on."

I have a lot of faith in the ignorance and bad faith of large segments of the American public.