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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:18 AM
Original message
Geronimo
There has been some discussion, including on this forum, about the application of the name of the Apache leader Geronimo, to the operation to kill Usama bin Laden. The opposition to the use of “Geronimo” should not be confused as opposition to the military operation itself. When we start at that point, some of the defensive “some people will complain about anything” becomes unnecessary.

First, let's consider who Geronimo was. Born in 1829, he was a Chiricahua Apache. His original name was “Goyaale,” which translates as “he who yawns.” This was the name he wore as a child and youth.

In 1858, in a conflict with Mexican soldiers, a number of his family members were killed. As a result, Geronimo began to be involved in “raiding,” a form of conflict that tribal societies engage in, which is generally on a scale less than true warfare. That does not imply that the victims of raiding are either less dead, or the survivors are less traumatized. It was during this phase of life that he became known as “Geronimo,” although the actual point in time and/or reason are unknown. Thus, those who claim to know the story behind this, including its meaning, are at very best bluffing.

In time, Geronimo and his people became involved in conflict with the United States, as well as with Mexico. Eventually, about one-quarter of the US military was engaged in the search for Geronimo in the hostile climate of the American southwest.

During this time, Geronimo was leading a tiny group of about 35 to 40 people. However, the US military was unable to catch him. The US offered large rewards to any Indian, Apache or otherwise, who would betray Geronimo's whereabouts. Those who talked, didn't know where he was; and those who knew, didn't talk. The reason they didn't talk was because Geronimo was considered to be a “holy warrior.”

The closest the military came to capturing Geronimo came in the Robledo Mountains. The US military chased Geronimo and his tiny band into a cave. Then they waited for him to come out. Then waited some more. Finally, there were reports that Geronimo and his band were seen elsewhere. Exactly how he escaped remains something of a mystery, as the other entrance/exit to the cave was never located.

Geronimo eventually surrendered in 1886. He would die in 1909, and, as many people are aware, his grave would be desecrated by a “club” known as the “Skull & Bones Society.” His skull was taken as a trophy by a group led by Prescott Bush.

Has the name “Geronimo” been used in other contexts, including Bugs Bunny cartoons? Certainly. However, any rational person familiar with the US military's effort to capture Geronimo can see why reality, rather than Bugs Bunny, played a role in the naming of the operation to capture/kill bin Laden.

I would also like to comment, briefly, on some of the offensive reactions to Tadodaho Sidney Hill's releasing a statement about this controversy. There is some confusion about why an Onondaga who serves as the “chief among chiefs” of the Haudenosaunee (Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy) would voice an opinion about an issue involving an Apache leader.

The Onondaga Nation serve as the “Fire Keepers” for traditional Native Americans today. The leaders from traditional tribes and nations in both the United States and Canada frequently come to Onondaga to conduct business important to all traditional people. More, Native People from Mexico, Central America, and South America come to Onondaga for the same reasons. The September, 1987 edition of National Geographic provides ample documentation on this.

Those who are unfamiliar with this long-standing reality are in no position to babble about “their Apache friends,” and other such nonsense. This includes the “it's time for them to be Americans” baloney. Both the Apache and the Onondaga have high rates of volunteering for the US military. It's time for the US, including the military, to respect Native Americans, including religious-military leaders such as Geronimo.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R. n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Thank you.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you . K&R n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Thanks!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. I always appreciate your thoughtful essays and historical context.
:hi:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. k&r...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Another thoughtful post
as usual :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Thanks. It's funny
that, despite the fact that I correctly identified the name "Geronimo" as applying to the military operation, some of our friends are still invested in telling me that I'm wrong -- that the name "Geronimo" applied to the military operation. Yikes!
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Agreed. If they say they are offended then we need to respect that
I hate the use of the name "Redskins" for a football team. I'm curious. Has anybody objected to the use of "Apache" for military helicopters?
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. k&r
Edited on Thu May-05-11 07:54 AM by steve2470
It's time to retire this term. Here is the history of the usage of Geronimo, from Wiki:

Background

This exclamation is believed to date from August 1940, and is attributed to Private Aubrey Eberhardt, member of the US Army's parachute test platoon at Fort Benning, Georgia. The parachute had only recently been adopted and this platoon was the first to test it. On the eve of an unprecedented "mass jump", the platoon decided to calm their nerves by spending the day before taking in a film at the Main Post Theatre and a night at the local beer garden. The film they saw was a Western featuring the Native American chief Geronimo. Its title is uncertain, but it was probably the 1939 film Geronimo with Andy Devine and Lone Ranger star Chief Thundercloud in the title role.

On the way back to barracks, Eberhardt said he expected the jump would be no different from usual. The others taunted him saying that he would be too scared to remember his name. Eberhardt retorted, "All right, dammit! I tell you jokers what I'm gonna do! To prove to you that I'm not scared out of my wits when I jump, I'm gonna yell Geronimo loud as hell when I go out that door tomorrow!" Eberhardt kept his promise and the cry was gradually adopted by the other members of his platoon.

Response


Initially, the top brass were wary of the cry, claiming that it constituted a lack of discipline. Others said that it showed bravery and should be encouraged. Eventually the latter view won out, and when the Army's parachute infantry grew, the cry grew with it. In 1941, the Army's first parachute battalion, the 501st Parachute Infantry Battalion (PIB) (now called the 501st Infantry Regiment), incorporated the name "Geronimo" into its insignia. The cry was also incorporated into the song Down From Heaven by Lieutenant Colonel Byron Paige.

By then, the coverage of the paratroopers' exploits during the war had made the cry "Geronimo" known to the wider public, and its use spread outside the military and air force.

http://bit.ly/htJwjw
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R n/t
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wasn't Geronimo just the callsign for Mission Accomplished?
or was it the call sign for bin Laden?
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. What I'd heard was that it was the success code word.
Bin Laden's code name was "Jackpot." People got confused because the message sent back was "Geronimo EKIA." In other words, "mission success, enemy killed in action."
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you, that's what I thought
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
128. Well that's an insult to the Irish, then ...
... Jack Pot is obviously an Irish name ... :silly:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. I find it interesting : The Military has been using the name Geronimo
since WWII if not longer?? In a complaint I saw on
TV, it appeared there was misunderstanding. The Seals
had used Geronimo as name of mission. It is a mistake
to think they were referring to Osama as Geronimo.

Paratroopers in WWII yelled Geronimo as they made successful
jumps from planes. Old War Movies will show successful missions
were code named Geronimo.

My point I is the MIlitary is honoring Geronimo not desecrating
the name. Jackpot was the code to be used if they truly
identified Osama Bin Laden.

Gernomino was the name of the mission. Why are they now
just concerned. This has been a practice since WWII.

Sometimes political correctness can be annoying and trivial.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. you know what they say
Mention my name in whatever context you like. Just make sure you spell it right.

Geronimo lives on because of all these references. Of more concern is getting his skull back home!
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rwsanders Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Does anyone know how the lawsuit is going?
I heard that descendents of Geronimo were suing the Skull and Bones to get the remains back. I'm wondering if they are making any progress.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Exactly. They refer to Geronimo as a symbol of success and bravery. n/t
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. If someone says they feel desecrated and dishonored, is it still an honor?
Just because people didn't "complain" in the past doesn't mean it isn't an issue now. It is not "political correctness" to seriously listen to and consider someone when they say they're hurt; it's a basic component of being a decent human being.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Since the word wasn't used as a slur, no. If they want to try and frame an argument
in the knowledge the name was not used for Osama and not intended as a slur but more of an acknowledgment of the soldiers bravery and skill, they can provide that argument.

I'm all ears.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
81. They have stated that they do not want the name associated
with Osama Bin Laden. It is called respect to honor those wishes, apologize and move on. I'm sure they are aware of these explanations.

One of the biggest problems in the US is a lack of respect for others. We seem to think that our way is the only way and too bad if you don't like it.

I hope the military apologizes out of respect. It's not that hard to be respectful of others.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Didn't you know? Being sensitive to others and a decent human being are so passe'.
The teabaggers told us so.

Sadly, we follow blindly along.

:cry:
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
127. Are those "someones" related to Geronimo somehow?
Because the military did contact his family & the Apaches to make sure their use of "Geronimo" back in WWII was not offensive, & the family gave them permission.

dg
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Military ops code names are selected randomly.
Edited on Thu May-05-11 08:47 AM by mn9driver
These are different from the PR names: Desert Storm, Iraqi freedom, etc. The ops codes are randomly selected from a list so that any bad guys on the frequency can't figure out a pattern and can't make educated guesses as to what is going on. It has been this way since at least WWII.

Who Geronimo actually was has absolutely NOTHING to do with this operation, and NOTHING to do with why the word is on the list. The name will be retired for a period of time before it is used again to prevent the possibility of confusion in record keeping. It is on the list in the first place because it is easily recognizable by almost every American, even over a bad radio circuit, just like all the other words on the list.

This is the way we did it when I was in this profession long ago, and it is the way the military does it now. There are lots of things that should be controversial about this operation. This isn't one of them.

On edit: The code words are assigned in blocks to different commands. USSOCOM (US Special Operations Command)is assigned the ops code words beginning with the letters GA-GF. That's why Geronimo was used.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. Then it is obvious that an insenstive word can be left OFF a list.
Pretty simple.
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Context is everything.
You're welcome to construe what you like. The reality is, the word is useful for the reasons I stated, it will continue to be used as long as it remains useful, and that usefulness has nothing at all to do with the historical or even the fictional person that was Geronimo.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. We can ignore or toss the finger to US citizens who object, or we can simply remove it from the list
I think it is clear what the moral choice would be.
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Good luck with that. nt.
.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. It doesn't have to do with luck, it has to do with HEART. Fortunately, many in Congress are
demonstrating more heart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1042800

So, you can call your senate office and protest the hearings. Afterall, that would be the progressive thing to do.
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. I'd rather my congresscritters spend time on things I consider important.
This isn't one of them. If you want to use that fact to shrink your tent to exclude me, feel free.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. I've been here quite a bit longer than you.
I suggest you watch the personal attacks.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. I posted the facts.
Do with it as you wish.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
138. ...and I have been here longer that YOU.
So there!!!

Maybe you could reach out of your comfort zone & actuality GIVE A SHIT about people's feelings.

Nahhhh!!!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #45
62. YOU consider important. somehow I think Mr. Wellstone would consider it important and you share
the same citizenship the Native Americans do.

What a stupid response.
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Paul Wellstone picked battles worth fighting.
He didn't waste his valuable time on this sort of thing. I knew Paul, and this issue wouldn't have made his top ten, ever.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #65
86. I wonder what your offense in mitigating an obvious offense is?
And bless your heart.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
135. Senate Indian Affairs Committee hearing scheduled well before Bin Laden op.
Indian Affairs Committee business, regardless if you think Indian affairs important or not to warrant a committee with hearings.
http://indian.senate.gov/
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
60. Exactly. nt
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. I would imagine that the vast majority of words are offensive...
I would imagine that the vast majority of words are offensive to one special interest group or another.

Is there an objective list of offensive words to be blacklisted, or is it simply "I know them when I see them..."? Since it's "pretty simple", I would hazard the objective list would be "pretty simple too.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. So, we now need a rollback of sensitivity gained in the last few decades, when groups
have been recognizing pride in their own heritage?

Whatever women object to, that is of no importance?

Whatever gays object to, that is of no importance?

Whatever blacks object to, that is of no importance?

Whatever Jews object to, that is of no importance?

Whatever poor people object to, that is of no importance?

Whatever Latinos object to, that is of no importance?

and finally.... but not solely....

Whatever progressives object to, that is of no importance?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. I don't pretend to know what's offensive to everyone.
I don't pretend to know what's offensive to everyone.

I simply asked if there is indeed an objective list of words that would offend absolutely no one...?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. That list is made up of what people who are AFFECTED ask of you.
Yes, it really is that simple.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #78
103. Exactly. It's a simple concept to an open mind., nt
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
98. Being in the airborne, Geronimo is not insensitive.
His name is used to showcase bravery. They didnt use his name to mention bin laden, rather success in getting bin laden. Please. Let it go. There are a million more important things to worry about then political correctness. Which this still is.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #98
114. And it doesn't matter what his decendants say. Got it.
:crazy:
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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. Do you have proof that
documented descendants of the historical Geronimo find this hurtful despite the contrary intention?

Or are you just using "descendants" as shorthand for a vocal group of Native Americans?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #118
131. You have made it clear that nobody makes any difference. YOUR opinion rules, and that is all that
matters.

I am DISGUSTED that Democrats, liberals and progressives, who *USED* to care about others, now ridicule anyone who dares to say "You are hurting me".

And what is tragic is that not only do these Dems, liberals and progressives no longer care about inflicting pain, they REVEL in the opportunity to tell OTHERS to get in their place and stay there.

:puke:

Goodbye. None of you speak for me.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. It"s far past time.
There is much we should have already learned from the people.

-Hoot
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Absolutely. Sadly, insensitive stubbornness has taken over.
Admitting being wrong would.... what? Cost too much?
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
22. I visited his grave at Fort Sill
I have pictures somewhere.

:hi:
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lauramolina Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. The intervention of St Jerome
Edited on Thu May-05-11 09:34 AM by lauramolina
"As an adult in battle he was called Geronimo by Mexican soldiers, perhaps because they could not pronounce Goyahkla, or perhaps to invoke Saint Jerome (Geronimo is Spanish for Jerome). The name was adopted for him by his own people."

In 2009, a lawsuit was filed by the descendants of Geronimo.

"The judge threw out the lawsuit because the law protecting Native remains in America only pertained to those taken after 1990. Also the judge said that the suit failed to establish that the government waived its right not to be sued without its consent.

In other words, here is another example where the law is doing what it is meant to do. The law is meant to protect the rich and powerful at the expense of those that have neither wealth nor power.


It is an insult to indigenous people to use the name Geronimo in association with Bin Laden. I refer you to Simon Moya-Smith's blog, I AM NOT A MASCOT

I am indigenous, of Pamaque and Lipan Apache descent and I find it insulting!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. Thank you so much for posting! Your voice needs to be heard, and there are a few of us who WILL
hear you.

Sadly, as you can see, there are many here who have dug into a trench and closed their ears.

:cry:

I hope you will continue to add your wisdom to "discussions" here! :yourock:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. Thank you!
Thank you very much.

I have a relationship with the Tadodaho that most others here are unaware of. I've known him since we were boys. For those unfamiliar with the role of Onondaga in international affairs, there can be no appreciation for the difficulties in taking on the responsibilities of that position after Leon died.

Sid wasn't just sitting around, watching the tube, and looking for something to complain about. That's not his way. He wouldn't have been condoled if it was.

The interesting thing, at least for me, is that if the self-proclaimed liberals on this forum had the opportunity to visit Onondaga, and actually be introduced to Sid, they would be overwhelmed. They would have their eyes opened to what actual leadership of people is all about.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
50. good call
& welcome!
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
124. Welcome to DU
I remember reading that Goyahkla raided a village and the people cried out to San Geronimo in intercession. Goyahkia liked the sound of it and began using it as a battle cry-soon he became known by it. I remember as a kid we would cry out Geronimo when doing something daring. Who knows, where is the "way back machine" or tardus when you need it.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. Recommended.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. The name "Geronimo" was used in an honorable context for a military operation requiring great skill
and bravery.

It wasn't used for Osama as a target. That was "Jackpot". Which in itself somehow manages to reflect on Native American history too, doesn't it?

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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
96. Sure it does.
Because we all own casinos.

So how is implying casinos are "Native American history" any different from the Obama dollars or witchdoctor posters the right makes?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. Some responses:
{1} I understand that the military did not lable Usama bin Laden as "Geronimo." If people read the entire OP, they would have noted that I made this clear. That was towards the end of the first sentence, however, no doubt beyond the point that several of the responders reached. Thinking can be uncomfortable, though.

{2} References to Tadodaho Sid Hill and the "outrage machine" found on DU are a giggle. Sid is probably the most humble, soft-spoken person on earth. I can say without any chance of error that those complaining about Sid have never met him. In fact, they do not know who he is, or the process that led to his release.

{3} There are a few people who, to be charitable, have reached the 50% measure in attempting wit; gosh, how clever to use "Jack Pot" in a joke about those Indians. Again, this reflects a profound ignorance of who the Onondaga are.

{4} The theory that the use of the name "Geronimo" was random -- and that absolutely no thought went into it -- is wonderful.
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mountainlion55 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. Is that
the same Prescott bush who sold steele to the Nazi's. Or was that another bush?:smoke:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. One the same.
Probably all part of "honoring" Geronimo, though.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. knr. Thanks, H2O Man.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
36. thank you so much for posting this thoughtful historical piece
I hope the President does release an apology, it would show sensitivity and respect.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. It just shows that the racist "past" of the Democratic Party still lingers today.
Native Americans have made contributions to this country far beyond what they are ever recognized for, despite the treatment they get in return. For this administration to be leading the operartion that named the nations #1 enemy the same name as that once used for a Native American when he was the country's #1 is shameful. An apology needs to be issued, and we need to work on removing the racist elements in our party and in our country.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
46. thank you , that was sorely needed
truth should be a friend
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. Right.
It seems to confuse and upset some of our friends here.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #56
132. some more on Goyathlay,
Edited on Fri May-06-11 11:55 AM by G_j
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. Ho...knr
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
52. Nice writing and sentiment. Thanks, kr nt
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ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
53. Geronimo meant "Success" not "Bin Laden"
Please get the facts straight.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Read sentence #1
in the OP. You can do this!
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. Don't blame the reader, you were unclear.
Edited on Thu May-05-11 11:53 AM by Robb
"...The application of the name of the Apache leader Geronimo, to the operation to kill Usama bin Laden."

That can be reasonably read as "as the name of the operation," which is inaccurate. :hi:

Edited to add: probably inaccurate.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Nope.
You are stretching things, to try to fit your needs.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Well, thankfully I'm not your editor, so my opinion doesn't matter.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. And thankfully,
you didn't attempt this in a Reading Comprehension 101 class. weak, very weak.

Regarding you post below: are you familiar with what "traditional" means?
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Please don't blame me for your sentence.
I find your writing usually quite good. In this instance, you were unclear, and I thought you were unfair to a reader. Getting angry with people who misinterpret unclear statements isn't going to make your point any more worthwhile -- and it is a worthwhile point to be made.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Oh, I'm not.
My point was clear. And it was made -- in the first sentence and elsewhere.

And I really do not care if people want to misread and misinterpret what I say or write. They own the problem.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. "You might be right, perhaps I could have made myself more clear."
:thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
87. Had there been
even the remote possibility that a single individual had made a sincere error in reading of the OP, I would surely have taken the time to gently assist them. Not because I have the unfulfilled maternal longing's of a mother robin, chewing up some worms, slightly digesting them, then puking the meal into her wee babies' mouths. (I do, of course, enjoy feeding birds near my pond.)

Rather, it would be because over the decades, I have had opportunity to speak to grade school classes, junior and senior high classes, college and university classes, and numerous other audiences, about Native American issues .... and I can appreciate that some people do have difficulty thinking outside the box that their minds have been confined to.

But, in this situation, without exception, only those who were opposed to the ideas expressedin the OP -- before they read it -- expressed the mistaken idea rthat I wrote that the US identified bin Laden as "Geronimo." But, you may be thinking, isn't the fact that both Geronimo and bin Laden called "the most wanted man in the world" by the US military, and "the most evil man in the world" by the US media, good cause for such shallow reading comprehension?

Perhaps. But I think not. First, not a single person who agreed with me made this same error. Second, I have found that even itty-bitty school children easily understand most "Indian" issues -- for, as Gandhi noted, small children have a large capacity to understand the difference between right and wrong.

Again, I only sought to speak to a specific population on this forum with my OP. I'm not particularly concerned with those who bring up the use of the name "Geronimo" for WW2 operations, etc, because anyone who points to the military in that era as being "race-conscious" is not going to offer what I consider meaningful discussion on this topic.

Peace, and take the time to learn what "traditional" means -- and I say that not as an insult, but rather because I think you would find it interesting and worthwhile.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Well, I never graduated high school. I also don't have ducks, or a pond.
Perhaps I merely lack your perspective on mother robins. Peace. :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. You are
always welcome at my home. My cousin who made the pond is not "formally" educated. But he is a fine example of a "traditional," and I am confident you would come to a different understanding of a native perspective.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. No, he really wasn't.
His point was quite obvious.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Thank you!
I appreciate having one of the people I respect the most on this forum saying that.
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peace4ever Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #53
106. He didn't say it did, please re-read the post
thank you
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
55. Recommended
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you for a thoughtful post.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
59. Well said. A dignified apology and promise not to use it again isn't at all difficult
and it's the right thing to do.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
61. Responses #2:
{1} There are people who are saying -- on this thread and others -- that the reference to Geronimo was a way of honoring him as an individual, and Indians in general. The majority of people saying this are, I believe, sincere. (Others, in my opinion, are not.)

There are, of course, as wide a variety of people/opinions among Indian populations as any other. However, it is worth looking to those people who honor the individual, Geronimo, as a spiritual leader. Among that group, no one considers this instance to be an "honor." It's also not a mortal sin. It provides an opportunity for learning.

As Chief Paul Waterman said, we might not always understand people who do things differently, but we can at least respect them. That is perhaps the best way to honor one another.

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. The Chairman of the Apache Tribe of Oklahoma doesn't honor Geronimo as a spiritual leader?
I don't claim to know him personally, but he speaks highly of Geronimo in interviews. And he thought the reference was an honor.

Perhaps Louis Maynahonah is the exception to prove the rule.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. "it provides an opportuunity for learning." That explains some of the defensiveness
of so many.

I've wondered about it from the moment the controversy started. It doesn't explain all of it, but it does some.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
74. I remember when I was at Ft Sill, OK training to be an artillery FO
Edited on Thu May-05-11 12:39 PM by kentuck
At Ft Sill, they had a high cliff that was 2-300 ft high that they said Geronimo jumped off and killed himself. At least, that was what they told the troops. At the bottom was a small creek. We had to rappel off as part of our training. One of our Airborne Ranger trainers would rappel by running down the face of the cliff yelling "Geronimo!" At the time, I thought nothing of it. I was totally insensitive to the remark. Now I see it in a much different light.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. exactly. Time passes and we learn. I said it as I jumped into the pool
or off of the roof.

But if people are offended, that's good enough for me to stop using it even if I intended no offense when I used it.

I don't understand the defensiveness.
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #74
99. I guess your glass is half full of sand then
Edited on Thu May-05-11 05:57 PM by Muskypundit
Its all in the way you look at it. Everyone else except for the easily offended people would look at that as giving homage to geronimo, not being disrespectful. But I guess we are racists and insensitive because we honor history?
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
121. What history did we honor?
Edited on Fri May-06-11 12:57 AM by Cherchez la Femme
Geronimo died a prisoner of the U.S. He regretted his surrender. I remember reading he complained that the U.S. did not honor (at least parts of) the deal made for his surrender and the surrender of his people (sorry but I can't find the book & I dare not speculate on exact instances if I don't clearly remember).

The Native Americans, you couldn't say they were decimated since the advent of the white man on these shores -- decimated only means 1 in 10 were killed... the Native American population was closer to 1 in 10 left alive;
and this country was far from done fucking around the indigenous people, oh no.

And then, albeit allegedly, filthy rich drunken white boys desecrated his grave, defiled his corpse;
and still are defiling it to this day.


So I'm wondering what did we honor?
What history did we honor?
Who did we honor?



First thing I thought of when I heard the code word was "so, we're still playing cowboys and indians?"



So many responses have been tone deaf and defensive...
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
75. A small sampling of WWII code names...
I imagine every word is offensive to some special interest group somewhere. A small sampling of WWII operational code names...

Operation Lumberjack is quite offensive to all our lumberjack Americans.

Michaelmas is offensive to students at the Waldorf schools and Orthodox Methodists everywhere.

Mike One (easily offensive to person's named Mike everywhere

Musketeer offensive to French fencers.

Of course, Operation Tomahawk is patently insulting to the same demographic as Geronimo.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. And you know, some are offended by "Geronimo." Why take offense at their offense?
That smacks of defensiveness and I can't understand what you, personall, have to be defensive about.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. When people resort
to "time warps" ('well, in WW1 ...") I tend to identify their thinking as a distraction. Not always, of course. But frequently.
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LadyHawkAZ Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
82. Wow. Apparently some people will find ANYTHING
to get mad about. This is the third thread I've seen this morning and I've been on less than half an hour.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Did you read the OP? So do you disagree with the OP and/or are you
Edited on Thu May-05-11 01:54 PM by myrna minx
outraged that Native Americans may take issue with this?

On edit - omitted the word "do".
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Since when is it unusual for GD to have several threads on a particular topic?
I only see one on the front page, btw, this one.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Maybe you should try reading one of them. This one would be a good choice.
Edited on Thu May-05-11 01:49 PM by EFerrari
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
89. Thank you n/t
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
93. Thoughtful post, as always-
and thoughtful, calm comments from you within. I was so sick of seeing thread after thread about this that I almost passed it by. I'm very glad I didn't. Thanks for posting this, H2O Man.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
94. Thank you. Very interesting. R&K nm
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. when I heard that code name used, the first thing I thought
was "of all the words in the English language, that is the only one you could think of? Why not use the code name "Jesus"? That would have been far less offensive.
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Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
109. Jesus was my first choice, but I kinda like 'Hambone'.
That would really piss 'em off.

Sonoman
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Eyerish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. Thank you H2O Man...
I always enjoy reading your posts... K&R
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
100. Native Americans have a long proud history, which has been twisted and
rolled over until most people would not recognize their incredible talent in so many areas.

Thank you posting this, and I hope relationships between NA's and others will continue to grow stronger through understanding and a sharing of cultures.. We can help in this area, by keeping an open mind and remembering that we are all human beings first, everything after that is peripheral.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
101. I listened to almost all that Senate hearing today and I learned a lot
Completely sidestepping the whole Geronimo controversy, it really is very harmful to Native Americans to use inaccurate imagery in portraying them as mascots, in movies, etc. I didn't realize how harmful until today. I was always against it on principle but today really drove it home to me.
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fivepennies Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
102. Well done H2O man!
Thank you.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
104. Once again, K & R
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
105. Why couldn't they have just used the codename "douchebag"?
Seems more appropriate...
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #105
117. Or cockroach.
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peace4ever Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
107. Thank you sir
you are a fine example of why I come here, still.

:toast:
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. K and R. Also, in hearings today New Mexico Senator Tom Udall
Edited on Thu May-05-11 07:44 PM by Quixote1818
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
110. Why Not Give Us the History of Code Words, Also?
They have no meaning, except to others aware of the secret they are hiding. The word "Geronimo" was probably easy for the combatants to remember because of the man's prominence in American history. Any other significance, or other connotations, imagined by the public are, by definition, imaginary and irrelevant.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. Why not?
Because it is not of interest to me. I'm happy to leave the "imaginary and irrelevant" stuff to people like you.
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #112
119. The Code Word is Merely a Word
Edited on Thu May-05-11 11:19 PM by mckara
Objecting to the use of a word by another who uses it merely because it's easy to remember is the height of arrogance. Who will enforce your imaginary rules: the thought police?

This type of thinking created the most intrusive, authoritarian governments in the world. Socialism and Communism reflect idealistic social relationships where all people are free and equal. Yet, we associate their administration with ruthless oligarchies who found it necessary to coerce their followers into their versions of free societies. Everyone had to see life through their subjective prism, or deserve confinement in concentration camps or extermination. Free societies turned into oppressive regimes.

Your notion assigns word usage to only selective groups preordained by you, regardless of the intent of its users. You can't use that word because its... offensive? No. disrespectful? No. Then why? Because I said so.

The whole premise is ridiculous, and therefore, irrelevant.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. Oh, deer!
Socialist, communists, and bears!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #120
130. Oh mercy - some of the reactions to your thread are priceless. n/t
Edited on Fri May-06-11 08:05 AM by myrna minx
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #119
140. Quite a straw man ya got there. nt
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
111. K&R. Thanks for this post, H20 Man.
I'm amazed that the concept of cultural sensitivity finds such a cold audience at DU. Thanks for trying to inject a little sanity (and history) into the discussion.

:thumbsup:
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
113. Good post. But the name has entered vernacular speech, meaning "charge!" or the like..
besides just the hero Geronimo's name. Like we say "Kleenex" to mean all tissue paper, etc.

When I first heard that they'd radio'd "Geronimo...Geronimo," meaning they had the target in sight or had engaged the target...I thought that using that name was inappropriate, and whose idea was that? That was my initial reaction. But I also a split second afterward thought that maybe they meant it in the everyday jargon way that people use the name, now.

But if it had been up to me, I would've come up with a different name, since I know that Geronimo was a Native American hero. But I only know that because I saw a documentary about him. Very good doc. Thank God for PBS, the Discover Channel, and stations like that. I've learned SO much more about historical figures than I ever learned in school. Probably because it's more interesting than reading dry facts in a book.

(I also think I MIGHT be part Native American, if that counts...or matters.) I'm supposedly almost 100% of French ancestors...but golly gee whiz, I can't help but wonder when I look in the mirror if I don't have a smidgeon of Native American.)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
115. Question is, how does the average person react to "Geranimo" ---
the US government's record re the Native American is nothing to brag about --

I'd give any "complainers" the benefit of the doubt!!

How short are we of names?



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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
116. K&R
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
122. As a long time Las Vegas resident
I'm thrilled that Bin Laden's code name was Jackpot

Turns out I'd unknowingly hit Bin Laden many times

Nothing like a severely overinflated tire to break open an otherwise dull ride
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #122
129. As an occasional visitor to Las Vegas
I've been looking for this "jackpot" for a long time.

At least now I can feel patriotic about it.

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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
123. ....led by Prescott Bush...
o

my

god
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
125. I object on security grounds. You shouldn't name an Op anything that gives a hint of its purpose.
It's hard to resist the temptation. Yet, if the name of the operation leaks out, maybe just too many people seeing the name on a file folder, you don't want anyone to be able to guess what it's about. So, if you name a military mission Geronimo, who do immediately suspect they're going after? For security purposes, you're supposed to name them things like Operation Strawberry, or Operation Crossword.

They succumbed to the desire to pick something that would sound good in news reports afterwards.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
126. So the Boners wanted a set of drinking skulls?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
133. If you didn't catch this segment on Amy's show today, you might
check out the discussion on the same topic:

The Obama administration has sparked outrage in the Native American community following the revelation it used the name of the legendary Apache leader Geronimo as a secret code word during the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. Geronimo was an Apache leader who fought to preserve tribal lands against U.S. and Mexican forces in the 19th century. We get reaction from Native American activist and writer, Winona LaDuke. "The reality is that the military is full of native nomenclature,” says LaDuke. "You’ve got Black Hawk helicopters, Apache Longbow helicopters. You’ve got Tomahawk missiles. The term used when you leave a military base in a foreign country is to go 'off the reservation, into Indian Country.' So what is that messaging that is passed on? It is basically the continuation of the wars against indigenous people."


http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/6/native_american_activist_winona_laduke_on
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
134. this should be distributed far and wide
Edited on Sat May-07-11 03:03 PM by 2banon
I love being treated to well written and important history lessons such as this one. :thumbsup: :applause: :thumbsup:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
136. When I've unwittingly offended someone, I don't question their offense,
I apologize, and count it as a lesson well-learned.

As a nation, we should do the same; it isn't difficult.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
137. Harlyn Geronimo, Geronimo's great grandson, statement for Senate Indian Affairs hearing
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
139. Should this have been "Martin Luther King" ???
Edited on Sat May-07-11 05:08 PM by U4ikLefty
Why not? Maybe "Ghandi"? Or "Anne Frank"...yeah, that's it!!!

Now I get the phrase "Godawful".
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
141. bttt
:thumbsup:
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
142. "Voldemort" would have been a better code name.
I totally understand why Native Americans would be upset. I only had to think about it for a microsecond when I realized they had a point.
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