For those who believe the claim that Obama "backed off on his promise to close the prison at

[jenmito]

Guananimo," I guess you missed Gibbs' daily briefing Nov. 22nd:

Q And in light of the election earlier this month, he (Steny Hoyer) says, it is, in his way of thinking, impossible that Congress is going to approve the money for federal civilian trials of Guantanamo Bay detainees. Are you willing to basically give up on that idea now?

MR. GIBBS: I said something different last week. I don't -- we spent the first row here talking about al Qaeda. We know al Qaeda uses the prison at Guantanamo Bay as a recruiting effort to seek those -- the participation of those interested in doing us harm because of that. I think to give up on that -- we’re not giving up on that goal.

Q Conversely, it’s almost two years into the President’s administration. You haven’t been able to close it. Are you willing to commit to closing it in 2011?

MR. GIBBS: I’m willing to commit to closing it as soon as possible to close it.

Q Any way you can put any possible time frame on that?

MR. GIBBS: No, I think I said last week that no one expects this to be easy, but I know that the President has not and will not give up on the goal.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/11/22/press-briefing-press-secretary-robert-gibbs-11222010

Just FYI.

[jenmito]

1. To the person/people who unrec'ed this, what's your reason? Do you think Obama's a dictator or

king? Do you realize how govt. works (or doesn't)?

[activa8tr]

10. Un-recing this was a not too smart thing someone did. I rec'ed it but I..

wonder what the big delay is with this.

Seems like we can find a few hundred beds in prisons for people newly convicted of crimes since Obama took office, and we have federal prisons that should be full of Bush administration people that are not yet even charged with their crimes Bush people still free to walk the streets.

What is the problem in finding a few hundred beds in a prison structure in the USA that literally houses millions?

[jenmito]

39. Thanks, activa8tr...

I think the President wonders, too. Especially when he wanted to send Gitmo detainees to his own state! But Dems. in congress cave so easily when Repubs. start misinformation campaigns, such as telling people the detainees will be in our streets walking around free, recruiting al Qaeda members to the city/state they're located in, etc. It shouldn't be difficult at all, but it is.

[hulka38]

46. The idea is to wait until Dems have less control in Congress

and say, "Darn it, we'd really like to close Gitmo now but we can't."

[golfguru]

48. Gitmo prisoners are safer in Gitmo

If you place them amongst hardened criminals, they could be killed.

[jenmito]

55. They'd be held apart from the other criminals. That was made clear when

Repubs. tried claiming the suspected terrorists would recruit other prisoners to fight "jihad."

[golfguru]

58. Sounds logical but may be difficult in practice

Separate eating areas, rest rooms, outside compound, library, gym, medical facility?
Seems like too much work for nothing. Leave them in Gitmo. They can't escape, they
are amongst their own religious people and can read the Quran together & pray 5 times
every day together etc.

[jenmito]

65. Yes...

there are/were new, empty prisons that could've been just for Gitmo prisoners.

[golfguru]

74. Except which state would accept them?

I recall Illinois was willing. Dunno why that never went through.

[jenmito]

76. Check out posts 16, 19, & 49. Yes, IL was willing...

until the scaremongers got to the people/politicians and they were against it after being for it.

[TheWraith]

92. It didn't go through because Congress refused to allow it.

An overwhelming majority, including a lot of Dems, passed a law banning the use of any money to fund the closure of Gitmo.

[TheWraith]

90. It's not really that difficult.

Simply choose a prison that's being underused, transfer whatever prisoners it has to somewhere else, and give them the place to themselves.

The only major roadblock is the fact that Congress fucked over the funding for closing the place, which is why it hasn't been shut down.

[golfguru]

95. Agreed on separate prisons, but my post was in response

to jenmito's post saying Gitmo prisoners could be separated from other prisoners
in the SAME prison. At least that is what I surmised from her post.

[TheWraith]

96. That could be done too.

Highly regimented schedules are one of the main features of prisons. Particularly when you consider that there are plenty of prisons where the inmates don't eat together, and have very limited exercise time.

[golfguru]

116. LOL sorry no first hand experience

so I will believe anything you say.

[TheWraith]

120. I'm not exactly a prison warden myself, just well read. nt

[golfguru]

122. I occasionally play golf with a guy who is in charge of a prison

so I will ask him all about this.

[activa8tr]

101. UM they eat in their cells, have a toilet in their cells, exercise

alone in a cage.

There is no "gym"

Doctors usually don't kill their patients in locked, secure, isolated medical facilites in prisons.

I don't know where you have experienced a maximum security prison, but your description is way off.

[golfguru]

117. I plead total ignorance of inside experience

in any prison. Have never been locked up even overnight in a holding cell.
So I have to believe everything you say.

[activa8tr]

125. You don't have to have been in prison to know how they are run

There's dozens of TV shows featuring all kinds of US Prisons, which range from local "drunk tanks" to the supermax variety.
That's the only way I got my "experience", and from reading what's out there.
Arguing from ignorance or from misinformation about super maximum security facilities is hardly a convincing position to take.

[CakeGrrl]

42. I think some people here are beyond CARING about how government works

They've decided the President has failed because X, Y and Z are not totally finished/solved/delivered in the threshold and less-than-single-term timeframe they've set, and perhaps they try to shut down any school of thought that argues otherwise.

Right-wing narrowmindedness from the Left.

[jenmito]

43. I think you

nailed it!

[TheWraith]

91. Amen, sister.

Some people on DU evidently thought that they were voting for a left-wing equivalent of Bush, who would just run roughshod over the law and do whatever he felt like.

Even so, they forget the amount of stuff that Bush didn't get his way on even with lock-step Republican majorities.

[whistler162]

140. unrec for whining about rec/unrec!

buck up there skippy!

[bahrbearian]

2. Q Any way you can put any possible time frame on that?

A. No

[jenmito]

6. You left some of his reply out:

"...but I know that the President has not and will not give up on the goal."

[bahrbearian]

18. Is that the same goal as he had in 2008?

or are we moving the goal post?

[jenmito]

31. His goal was to close Gitmo his first year.

He obviously did NOT have enough support in Congress-even from the Dems.-thanks largely to the RW misinformation/scare tactic machine. But the fact is Obama did NOT "back off" on closing Gitmo.

[Kind of Blue]

49. As per PolitiFact...

"...We've gotten a ton of e-mails from readers urging us to rate this Promise Broken. Obama promised to close the detention center within a year of taking office, the argument goes, and he has not done that. As we pointed out in our last update, however, he made that statement after taking office, not during the campaign. The Obameter only tracks promises that the President made on the campaign trail, when there was no such self-imposed deadline."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/177/close-the-guantanamo-bay-detention-center/

More links at PolitiFact:
The Washington Times, Obama's Gitmo plan takes another hit, by Stephen Dinan, May 28, 2010

Miami Herald, White House moves ahead on Illinois prison purchase, June 22, 2010

The New York Times, House Panel Rejects a Plan to Shift Detainees to Illinois, by Charlie Savage, May 20, 2010

Fox News Blogs, Key Senate Committee Rejects Obama Request for Alternate Gitmo Prison, May 28, 2010

Don Manzullo, Senate Appropriators Approve Plan to Buy and Use Thomson as Federal Prison Without Terrorists, July 23, 2010

Chicago Tribune, House votes to prohibit moving Gitmo detainees, by Katherine Skiba, May 30, 2010

[jenmito]

56. Thank you for showing all of those articles/headlines about

how Obama tried, and members of congress rejected, closing Gitmo.

[Kind of Blue]

69. You've done well trying to

:hi: explain the messy facts of the matter.

[jenmito]

71. Thanks, Kind of Blue.

:hi:

[ProudDad]

61. You forgot the most important excuse...

I lost my lucky pen...

I know it's around here somewhere...

But I can't sign any Executive Order without my lucky pen...

So I guess I'll have to continue committing crimes against humanity in the name of the "war on terror(tm)"...

And discriminating against gay people...

(Gee, why didn't Harry Truman lose HIS lucky pen. It's not fair...)

[Kind of Blue]

68. Have fun storming the castle

and don't forget your lucky pen. Thanks for the laugh :)

[ProudDad]

132. It's a lonely job

but someone has to do it :hi:

[Kind of Blue]

138. This is cool, ProudDad. We can disagree

without being nasty. I appreciate that :)

[ProudDad]

139. Thanks...

I've been trying to work very, very hard on controlling my "nasty" lately...

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... :)

I don't want to get nasty 'cause then the folks I'm REALLY talking to might get turned off too...

That would be bad... :(

[Radical Activist]

8. How could he since Congress is blocking it?

It was a stupid question. "Could you put a timetable on when Congressional Republicans and conservative Democrats will stop being obstructionist morons?" As if that's up to Obama.

[bahrbearian]

20. It is up to Obama to set up the Goals for congress.

[Radical Activist]

23. True. He did that.

[treestar]

47. No it isn't

See Article one and two of the US Constitution.

[TheWraith]

93. They don't appear to be listening.

And short of sending Congressmen to Gitmo, there's not much way to force them to do what we want.

[ProudDad]

62. You do realize that as the executive

he has the power to determine how he "follows the laws", right?

Did he lose his pen?

He could end enforcement of DADT and close Guantanamo with a signature...today...

It's very convenient to blame the repukes for Obama's complete subservience to the "National Security State(tm)"...

But it's not true...

[Radical Activist]

72. So you believe in the imperial Presidency.

I don't like it from Bush or Nixon and I don't want that from Obama.

[ProudDad]

129. You prefer one

whose Congress' puppy?

-----------------------------------

[bvar22]

66. Did Congress approve the opening of a POW/Torture camp at Gitmo?

I don't think so.

[Radical Activist]

73. They vote to fund it every year.

Why are you so eager to left Congress of the hook? Hold their feet to the fire!

[bvar22]

82. Afraid to answer a direct question?

Did Congress approve the opening of a POW/Torture camp at Gitmo?
.
.
.
Because if the answer is NO,
your whole argument falls apart.

[Radical Activist]

87. I answered yours. Now you can answer mine.

Yes, Congress approves of Gitmo every time they vote to fund it. That's pretty easy to understand.

Why are you letting Congress off the hook instead of holding their feet to the fire?

[bvar22]

126. No, you didn't answer my direct question.

So I will answer it.

Direct Question: Did Congress create the POW/Torture Camp at Gitmo?

Answer: NO. Gitmo was created by the Executive Branch.

If the funding for Gitmo was a Stand Alone Bill,
you would have a point,
but it isn't,
and you don't (have a point).
Voting for funding packages has NEVER been blanket approval for each and every component of a bill.

....but you know that,
and so do most of the people that read DU.
:hi:

[Radical Activist]

128. You really do want to let Congress off the hook.

1) Congressional members could make it a stand alone bill if they want.
2) They had a separate vote on funding to shut it down, and they voted to keep it open.

It's puzzling that you try so desperately to tar and feather Obama over anything, and you're trying just as desperately to absolve Congress of any responsibility for their actions.
It looks as though it isn't about the issue to you. It's about how much you oppose Obama.

[ProudDad]

130. You REALLY want to let Obama off the hook.

The BOTTOM line is that he could make it disappear with a signature and an order...!!!

That's how it was CREATED and that's how it could be ended tomorrow...

-------------------------------------------------------

But that's an irrelevancy because the "Permanent War Economy(tm)" would just go on...

And be manifested in different crimes...

On Edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x535216

[Radical Activist]

133. Obama already signed the order to close Gitmo.

Congress blocked funding to close it or open another facility to hold the prisoners. Why is that so difficult to understand? This is the cost of living in a system with checks and balances instead of the dictatorship you think we live in.

[ProudDad]

135. This is NOT a binary situation...

There are many other options he has as Executive that would result in closing down that SYMBOL of bush's (now Obama's) war crimes...

He is in COMPLETE charge of a string of Federal prison facilities that with a stroke of a pen could house anyone who may be "guilty" of something...

He is in COMPLETE charge of whether those who are NOT guilty of anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time be released...

He is in COMPLETE charge of the infrastructure -- the planes, trains and buses that could transport the "dangerous" ones overnight thereby presenting Congress with a fait accompli..."Are you going to release them all now, Mr. CongressCritter?"

Why is it so difficult to grasp the universe of options that Obama has at his disposal...

IF HE REALLY WANTED TO CLOSE GITMO!

But politically, GITMO is not in the USAmerican public's mind (shopping is) so it's ignored...

[harun]

75. Congress can't block this. It is just a bunch of BS to try and blame Congress

for failing to deliver on a campaign promise.

[jenmito]

88. Congress DID block it:

"(Reuters) - Not in my backyard! Not in my state! Not in my country!"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5724LF20090803

"House Panel Rejects a Plan to Shift Detainees to Illinois"
http://celebrifi.com/gossip/House-Panel-Rejects-a-Plan-to-Shift-Detainees-to-Illinois-2533263.html

"Gitmo Detainees To Michigan?"
http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/52319647.html

[harun]

113. All lies.

[Radical Activist]

115. Who needs facts?

Uninformed cynicism is more fun.

[FBaggins]

119. That's strange... none of your links actually refer to Congress blocking it.

They discuss Congress blocking plans to move detainees to other prisons... but not blocking the closure of gitmo.

The plan pushed by worldwide justice groups was a "try or release" demand. Either find a way to try them quickly within the demands of the Geneva convention (etc) or let them go. The President's orignal executive order was essentially that: Yet in Gitmo they remain.

Congress blocking a transfer doesn't do thing one to the call for their release if they couldn't be held within established international law.

[AngryAmish]

29. I can put a definitive time frame on that

In about 5 billion years the sun will go dark. Darkish that is. It will eject a lot of material and gas. No human life will survive on earth.

Cuba still retains title to the land although the US has a perpetual lease. In this lease annual payments of $2,000 in gold coins. If the population of the US is all dead, then we will be in default and have to get out of Gitmo.

There, I did it. I put a possible time frame on it. Do I get a cookie?

[activa8tr]

3. I wonder what is taking so long.

Could he be meeting up with objections from locally based Dem politicians in districts with prisons where he wants to transfer the prisoners? It's only a few hundred, (I say ONLY because America has more than two million people behind bars in 50 states).

What's the hangup?

I really wish I understood why this is taking so long. Any help or links to help me understand this hangup better would be appreciated.

[jenmito]

9. The Dems. who we would've needed to be on board...

including those in the states that have the max. security prisons, gave in to the RW scare tactics and said they wouldn't pay to let the Gitmo detainees transfer to their prisons. I'll look for links. :hi:

[activa8tr]

12. THANK YOU! If you don't find them I can look on my own... would these be

like in Colorado's supermax? Or some other states?

Don't we have military prisons on army and navy bases where we could soup up a super secure site with a few millions of the defense budgets?

[jenmito]

16. No problem! I found this so far:

(AP) The Obama administration is looking at creating a courtroom-within-a-prison complex in the U.S. to house suspected terrorists, combining military and civilian detention facilities at a single maximum-security prison.

Several senior U.S. officials said the administration is eyeing a soon-to-be-shuttered state maximum security prison in Michigan and the 134-year-old military penitentiary at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., as possible locations for a heavily guarded site to hold the 229 suspected al Qaeda, Taliban and foreign fighters now jailed at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba.

The officials outlined the plans - the latest effort to comply with President Obama's order to close the prison camp by Jan. 22, 2010, and satisfy congressional and public fears about incarcerating terror suspects on American soil - on condition of anonymity because the options are under review.

<snip>

Congress has blocked $80 million intended to bring the detainees to the United States. Lawmakers want the administration to say how it plans to make the moves without putting Americans at risk.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/02/politics/main5205060.shtml

[Tx4obama]

19. Illinois - the articles on the links below are newer than the article on your link

ILLINOIS

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-white-house-announces-transfer-guantanamo-detainees-illinois/story?id=9342554

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-14/us/illinois.prison.gitmo_1_guantanamo-detainees-guantanamo-prison-camp-guantanamo-bay?_s=PM:US

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33938067

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/14/national/main5980072.shtml

[jenmito]

36. Yes-thanks. I had to go and didn't have time to find any more links...

but I knew IL was a location that seemed to be a perfect place to put Gitmo detainees since it's Obama's home state. And the prison was new and empty. But the opposition was able to turn the public against it.

[tabatha]

15. Money.

Congress (obstructionist Republicans) will allow the vote for the money it requires.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. People are idiots

They think the people held at Guantanmo are super-villains that can break out of a supermax prison

[Kali]

4. my recollection was that

closing the Guantanamo prison was going to be one of his first acts as president - did I pick that up incorrectly somewhere?

[activa8tr]

5. I think his promise in the Inauguration speech was .... "within a year" n/t

[jenmito]

11. "One of his first acts as president" with Congress's help. They caved to RW pressure/scare

tactics.

[Kali]

30. but is/did he making a public push?

I don't watch teevee and mostly rely on DU or Democracy Now! for news so what I know is that Illinois practically built a new prison to take them and I have never read anything about the President taking his case to the talk show circuit (either personally or by spokesperson) no to congress. Has that happened or was it just passively allowed to "be opposed" and basically dropped?

[jenmito]

32. He has no support...

from his fellow DEMS., even. He DID think that having the maximum security prison in his own state, the Dems. would have a way to support closing Gitmo again. He was wrong.

[FBaggins]

51. Too bad they passed that Amendment removing his Commander In Chief title.

n/t

[jenmito]

54. Too bad you think "Commander In Chief"="Dictator." n/t

[FBaggins]

78. Nonsense. Just because he isn't a dictator doesn't mean that he's toothless.

He still has the single most influential position involved. He could, for instance, order the military to provide him a report on each and every inmate within 30 days. There's no national security implication, no evidentiary concerns, nothing. He can say that you have to convince him that each and every prisoner warrants detention (and why) or he can order them released.

[DrDan]

7. January 2009

Guantanamo prison "will be closed no later than one year from now."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7845585.stm

[jenmito]

13. Yup. He must've figured the congress would go along with him. They didn't. n/t

[DrDan]

34. then be honest with the folks - tell them you cannot do as promised

[Radical Activist]

14. Brilliant tactic by the Republicans.

They blocked one of Obama's agenda items. And instead of blaming the Republicans and conservative Democrats who are responsible, some people keep bringing it up to attack Obama. It's amazing how easily the left is being manipulated by Republican leaders.

[jenmito]

17. EXACTLY! n/t

[bahrbearian]

21. Brilliant because they knew, the Leadership would Cave.

[Radical Activist]

26. Obama didnt't cave.

That's clear from the OP.

[jenmito]

38. If by "the Leadership" you mean "Dems. in congress," you're right. n/t

[Andy823]

25. I agree.

Seems like the same talking points that get the "radical" right all worked up are working one some on the left, now why is that? I guess it's simply the "I hate Obama club" and it doesn't matter what party you are in! Now I know why the right hates him, and I know some on the left still haven't gotten over the primaries back in 2008, but I see more and more on the left claiming that OBAMA is the problem when anything happens, and I find it hard to understand. Maybe they really are trolls, I know there are a lot of them here, or maybe there are just a whole lot of people who are only "ONE ISSUE' voters and he hasn't gotten around to "their" issue. Whatever the reason it only feeds the morons on the right who are doing their best to make the president a one term president, and helping the right should be "WRONG" if you claim to be a progressive, or a liberal! Complain yes, but when a person can't find the good things the president "HAS" done, then they have a huge problem!

[DrDan]

35. and a less-than-brilliant promise to those that voted D

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. How would you get this through when just about every member of congress...

Is telling you "I don't want that thing in my state/district".

[DrDan]

33. I don't know - I am just tired of constant excuses as to why we cannot govern

[Hippo_Tron]

44. Closing of Gitmo is a unique problem

Most legislation Obama wanted was being blocked only by Conservadems and Republicans. This was being opposed by Harry Reid. There's really not a whole lot you can do about it.

[ProudDad]

63. Sign an executive order moving the prisoners at Gauntanamo

to other federal facilities...

Same way Guantanamo was created...

The rest of this is bullshit to cover up the fact that he's now a fully functioning creature of the "National Security State(tm)"...

[jenmito]

98. He DID sign an executive order to close Gitmo in Jan. '09:

"Obama Signs Executive Order To Close Guantanamo Bay"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/obama-and-guantanamo-unde_n_159849.html

[ProudDad]

137. Another Promise Broken...

Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities,

they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States."

:shrug:

Not unexpected. It was just a bit of theater for the groundlings...

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

27. Rec for trying to get the truth out.

Why the left is using the rightwing talking points to make it something Obama didn't do is beyond me. But then I wonder at the reasons used when we see the same anti crap day after day...looks like lying about things is just pushing the point.....who's point then becomes the question. It's obvious it's not the Democratic Presidents point, it's thwarting him at every turn.

[jenmito]

40. Thanks, jaxx.

There are obviously quite a few supposed Dems. who are way too eager to bash Obama. :shrug:

[impik]

28. Dear jenmito, they *never* paying attention to anyone or anything but the professional left.

And, when its convenient enough, they forget all about congress and the constitution and the fact that the president can't just bring these terrorist here without congress approval.

[jenmito]

41. Thanks impik...

for pointing out the facts. :hi:

[Kali]

45. you oversimplify while accusing others of doing it

how much does active leadership - vocal advocacy, play into motivating congress? for that matter on any issues we simpletons took him at his word on? where is the advocacy on them now? no I don't seriously think the executive branch can unilaterally do whatever it wants, but some visible leadership in pressing the issues a lot of his supporters/voters want to see accomplished would be nice.

[Kind of Blue]

50. Rec

for trying to separate truth from fiction.

[Vinca]

52. Maybe they'll close it in 2014. Everything is going to get better in 2014.

:sarcasm:

[jenmito]

57. Do you blame Obama for Gitmo not being closed? Read post #49 if you do. n/t

[de novo]

53. I just want to know why they are unwilling to charge and try ALL detainees.

The indefinite detention without charge is the real offense.

[ProudDad]

60. In fact, it's a crime against humanity (n/t)

[ProudDad]

59. If your point is that Obama is dragging his feet

'cause he is just another creature of the "National Security State(tm)"...

You've succeeded... :eyes:

[jenmito]

70. He's doing no such thing...

CONGRESS is. :eyes:

[FBaggins]

77. The problem is that there's no way to tell the difference.

You may claim that he really REALLY wants (honest!) to keep his word but, darn it, he just can't.

But his behavior is indistinguishable from a politician who dishonestly claimed that it's what he wanted ("cross my heart!") but really never had any intention of following through once he was in power.

[jenmito]

81. Did you read this post (#49) on this thread?:

It shows how congress stopped Obama: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=534805&mesg_id=535041

[FBaggins]

86. I had not... now I have... it doesn't make a difference.

So they aren't willing to score it as a broken promise because the promise that was broken occurred after he was elected and they were only scoring campaign promises? Big deal. Others certainly score it as a broken promise... and there were campaign promises made as well.

It shows how congress stopped Obama

Which only shows that he has limited himself to positions that Congress has the ability to stop. Those are not his only options.

None of which answers the point of the post. You want to claim that he was telling the truth (and perhaps he was), but you can't demonstrate it, because there's no difference between his actions and that of a politician who was lying to us when he said he would close it.

We may choose to believe him, but that isn't likely to be persuasive to those for whom this was a critical issue.

[jenmito]

89. You say Obama doesn't NEED Congress to close Gitmo. I say he DOES.

I gave you links that show time after time, his attempts to close Gitmo got blocked by Congress which IS the only way he can close it, despite your claim that he has some extraordinary ability to close it on his own.

[FBaggins]

97. Nope. That's not what I've said.

So you'll have to build another strawman or deal with the actual argument.

He doesn't need Congress to do lots more than he has to date.

Assuming that's what he really intended to do.

despite your claim that he has some extraordinary ability to close it on his own.

He certainly CAN close it on his own (though that wasn't my position). What he can't do is close it and keep the prisoners confined in other ways and/or charge them in civilian courts.

The anti-war left believed that their confinement was contrary to the geneva convention (and candidate Obama clearly tipped his hat toward them during the campaign). They believed that the vast majority of them shouldn't be held at all.

The President does have the ability to do that. He just never intended to (or worse... intended to and then later came to believe that Bush was right).

[jenmito]

99. "Obama Signs Executive Order To Close Guantanamo Bay"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/obama-and-guantanamo-unde_n_159849.html
Didn't work.

[FBaggins]

100. "Didn't work" because it wasn't even tried.

Sorry. He didn't really order that gitmo be closed. He ordered that the prisoners be transfered and tried in other courts. It was when that failed that he claimed that, darn it, gitmo would just have to continue.

The people who were pushing for Gitmo to be closed were not looking to transfer the prisoners to IL and continue to the game. It wasn't a dislike of a particular prison design. They wanted it closed and the prisoners returned to their homes.

Candidate Obama pretended that he understood and agreed with those priorities. He used the same language so that they would know that he was on their side.

They were conned.

[jenmito]

102. He never "claimed that, darn it, gitmo would just have to continue."

Unless you have a link that shows otherwise...

[FBaggins]

104. Easy.

It's still open... and far more than a year has gone by.

All that's missing is the "darn it".

Some would prefer to think it's a "fooled you!" but I gave him the benefitofthe doubt.

[jenmito]

106. You're lying. He is NOT giving up on it and you have NO quotes to

back up your claim.

[FBaggins]

107. Hard to "give up" when you don't appear to have tried.

and you have NO quotes to back up your claim.

Is there some doubt that it's still open?

Where are your quotes of the president treating this as it should be treated? If it's a human rights violation, where's the public pressure on democrats who wouldn't vote correctly? Why wasn't it a campaign issue?

[jenmito]

109. I gave you about 3 or 4 links showing that he said he wanted it closed but Congress

denied him. He talked about it in his SOTU. I'm done looking up links for you when you just repeat anti-Obama talking points.

[FBaggins]

112. What you have *FAILED* to do is provide a single link...

...that differentiates between "lied to" and "lost". You can claim that he gave it his best effort and failed... I'd say he should be embarassed if that's his best effort.

Since he hasn't done the things that he could do under his own authority... it's hard to attack the folks who think they were lied to. His actions are indistinguishable from if he had gone to Reid and Pelosi and said "hey... I need to propose this because I said that I would close it... but you go right ahead and shoot it down"

[ProudDad]

131. Congress did NOT create Gitmo

the Executive did...

And the Executive doesn't need Congress to end it... :eyes:

[ProudDad]

64. For those who believe the claim that Obama "backed off on his promise to close the prison at Gitmo

He did... :nuke:

[EFerrari]

85. That's just your lying eyes again!

[polichick]

134. Really, how silly of us to have brains in our heads! nt

[bvar22]

67. Part of a package to restore America's Moral Standing in the World:

Here is an interesting video review:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah

[bigwillq]

79. At least they're not putting another time frame on it.

Because the last time they did resulted in an epic fail.

[JonLP24]

80. It will be great if closes Bagram

Look I don't care if those two places are open. Just don't torture, allow prisoners the right to challenge their detention, don't use tribunals, and release them if they have their case dismissed, not guilty, whatever.

[MadHound]

83. Apparently there has been no real push on the issue by the president

"Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), who chairs the Senate Committee on Armed Services, told the Huffington Post on Tuesday that engagement on the topic by the president and his team has been sparse. So has any type of political push to get Congress to help close Gitmo by appropriating money for an alternate facility in Thomson, Illinois, he added."

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/08/levin-gitmo-closure-going_n_604963.html>

The Congressional 'Pugs punched the administration once on this issue, and they folded. This seems to be a recurring theme with this administration. A modicum of resistance is put up and the administration caves.

[jenmito]

94. Really?:

"(Reuters) - Not in my backyard! Not in my state! Not in my country!"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5724LF20090803

"House Panel Rejects a Plan to Shift Detainees to Illinois"
http://celebrifi.com/gossip/House-Panel-Rejects-a-Plan-to-Shift-Detainees-to-Illinois-2533263.html

"Gitmo Detainees To Michigan?"
http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/52319647.html

[EFerrari]

84. Gitmo is still open. The black site at Bagram is still open.

No one has been brought to justice for torure and Gibbs is still a PR flack.

[jenmito]

103. "Thanks" to Congress, it's still open. n/t

[FBaggins]

105. So much for the bully pulpit... so much for LEADER of the party.

Easier to forgive if it seemed like he had tried a little harder.

[jenmito]

108. Again-he's not a dictator. n/t

[FBaggins]

111. But he *IS* the President of the United States.

A little leadership too much to ask?

"Obama Administration Sidelines Guantanamo Closure "

"Stymied by political opposition and focused on competing priorities, the Obama administration has sidelined efforts to close the Guantánamo prison, making it unlikely that President Obama will fulfill his promise to close it before his term ends in 2013."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/25/guantanamo-closure-obama_n_626398.html


Oops! Well... we tried. On to "competing priorities".

Tell me. For the people who actually considered this to be a human rights issue that undermined everything we do on the world stage... how many shots would you take before "competing priorities" caused you to call it for the first term?

Shall we go down the LONG list of "priorities" that are suddenly more important?

[jenmito]

114. Someone's opinion, pointing out that he was, "Stymied by political opposition..."

does NOT mean he gave up on trying to close it. And regarding your snarky comment implying that Obama hasn't "actually considered this to be a human rights issue that undermined everything we do on the world stage...", my OP says otherwise.

[FBaggins]

118. Yep... and YOUR opinion claiming that he "hasn't given up"

does NOT mean that he's kept his promise or even ever intended to.

As I've said (without effective rebuttal) more than once. Nothing he's done breaches the dividing line between political con and sincere failure. There's simply no way to prove that he wasn't lying.

He has not spent one thin dime of political capital on this issue. Hasn't presured congressional leadership to act. Hasn't exercised executive authority and dared Congress to take him to court.

Note. I'm not claiming that he WAS lying (or even that closing gitmo was the right thing to do). I'm pointing out that the people who supported him because this was a BIG issue for them and because his promises caused them to believe that he agreed... have not one shred of evidence in your OP or supporting posts that would make them feel at all better.

Sorry. That's obviously your goal... and you may sincerely believe it. But it's a total failure.


But don't worry. You can always blame congress. :)

[EFerrari]

121. Whatever gets us through the night. n/t

[LittleBlue]

110. How can you say this and then give him credit for any accomplishment?

It's the congress' fault when he doesn't deliver on a promise, but it's to his credit when he does? This is a horribly repetitive pattern. Those "Obama accomplishment" threads list his accomplishments as if they are Obama's and congress had no part, but in these cases he seems to avoid all responsibility.

Either the buck stops with him or it doesn't.

[TheKentuckian]

124. He did back off and no I don't give a shit that Congress refused to fund relocating the facility

The point was never the location of the facility.

Put those on trial that you can and release the rest.

That is our system. Congress requires notification (overreach of power passed as a poison pill in another bill) so give them their 120 days and start the trials and release those that cannot be indicted.

Congress cannot dictate indefinite detention or the use of tribunals without amending the Constitution.

[Major Hogwash]

127. Bump, kick, smack.

Hee hee hee.

Hey, jenmito, good post!

[jeanpalmer]

136. Apparently he made a promise

that had no possibility of being kept. Did he consider Congress' likely response? Didn't he realize other countries would not take these prisoners back? Another half-baked poorly thought out campaign idea that now must be thrown overboard.