In the midst of the "Tea Party" are we missing incredible opportunity?

[Go2Peace]

Imagine if we could actually CO-OPT the the hubris that the "Tea Baggers" are somehow managing to dredge up?

While I reject the premise of the "Tea Bagger" movement, they seem to be falling into and harnessing a serious discontent that is growing. I believe that what is happening is *all about* the economy. But it is not *simply* jobs, and not simply about "the debt".

The "Tea Baggers" are quite the spectacle, and the way that the media has globbed onto them is a spectacular (in a negative way) and so outlandish that we are (rightly) outraged. How dare they, who have been active in pushing us to the brink of a disaster, try and represent themselves as populists! But in so being outraged and dismissing it outright, could we be missing an incredible opportunity to actually harness that energy, in a *positive way, for our party?

Why is this asinine group of idiot right wingers actually gaining steam? Is it just "the media", or are we missing something more important going on?

I don't know what others are seeing and hearing when they talk to their friends and loved ones, but the country appears to be getting over the "Shock" of what happened last year, and they are beginning to mourn and understand what has actually happened with the Banks and the "Privileged class". In many of their minds what happened was sudden and life changing, in the same way that they saw 9/11. I believe the country is generating a great anger, and we are seeing what is just a natural beginning of a backlash.

What if we actually have an incredible opportunity to "CO-OPT" that backlash. Because DEMOCRATS, not Republicans, are truly the best at being "populists" of the people. There is only one BIG....HUGE... factor that is, unfortunately, in our way, and this FACTOR, is, and will continue to, direct this anger right at us, and some activity toward the "Tea Bagers"...

What is this "Factor" (sorry I know, stupid foxes word, be we should get to use it to!)

Geithner... yes really....

GEITHNER!!!!!!!!

The massive Corporate Banking FRAUD seems to be where the country is beginning to direct it's rage. And in many ways rightly so.

I believe the President may have an incredible opportunity to (Rightly) take this inertia from this movement, potentially neutralize the issue from becoming a serious liability in the coming elections, and at the same time restore his image amongst many, especially in the **middle** and independent camps, by making two incredibly (relatively) simple, but profound administrative changes.

Change 1:

Replace the Attorney General (during a recess?) with an extremely tough, champion. Someone like http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/profile.html">Bill Black who will go after the worst of the corporate fraud with a vengeance. And have him start the process of gathering evidence for some INDICTMENTS.

Change 2:

Dump Geithner (and cohort bankers, Fruman, and Rubin)! And (sorry Geithner) but do so in a nice manner, but Unapologetically.

Independents and moderate Rs are entirely focused on those few appointments.

Doing this will de-fang many of those who are finding themselves caught up in the "Tea Party" rhetoric. It will remove what is a very visible and serious liability. And would win over many middle independents who otherwise might be inclined to sway President Obama's way. And best of all, it would remove the inertia the Tea Bagger movement is able to use to persuade moderate Americans away from the Democratic Party.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like I have NEVER seen such an obvious and easily implemented route to populism and it seemingly staring us in the face?

[MisterP]

1. but without the teabaggers, what can the conservadems threaten voters with if they don't vote for

Tweedledee over Tweedledum?

[Go2Peace]

2. Core teabaggers will never change,

But they are tapping into something that we should counter

[insanity]

3. Poor analysis

For one, I think the Tea Party represents more of a problem for the Republicans than it does for us. Their party is the one that is tearing itself down, not ours. It's the evangelical newly conservative crowd against the old asshats and its going to be a fun primary season.

Second, I think Holder is doing a fine job at AG and I like seeing that branch move away from being a clearing house for executive power.

Third, hating on Geithner is fun right now, but I'm still convinced that he did the job he needed to do.

[Go2Peace]

4. OK. So you are comfortable. But that is not what the post was about

Do you really think that these people are not a liability? Are you not seeing growing concern that while we may have stemmed the immediate threat of depression, that people feel they have been fleeced by the banks and that Washington is not dealing with that part of the crisis?

Even the coverage on PBS is changing to more hard hitting analysis, they have had a number of guests on a number of shows asking why there have not been indictments. It will be a growing issue.

[hansont]

7. Probably the wrong forum to post this in

[insanity]

30. Geithner is more of a liability than Holder

In the public eye. I'm still not convinced that it will cost us the Presidency in 2012. Like you said, people's resentment as-of-late has been related to a stagnate recovery and anger at politicians who spent billions while the people haven't directly seen the benefits. It's hard to make an argument to the public that your stimulus saved some of the jobs that people would have otherwise lost, no matter how factually correct, when the trend has been downward. That said, if Obama can get health-care done before next year and a jobs bill that helps reverse the downward trend, then public opinion will turn back on our side.

[Cha]

35. Thank you, insanity..I agree..very poor analysis.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hansont]

6. What offensive crap. You seem to have completely twisted the intent of the OP

..

[FrenchieCat]

8. I was asked a question.....

which was...." I don't know what others are seeing and hearing when they talk to their friends and loved one...."

so I answered!

So sue me! :shrug:

[Go2Peace]

9. I in no way endorse or excuse the teabaggers. I was talking about

otherwise more moderate people who are being attracted to the populist rhetoric.

I don't know anyone that is involved with the movement. The people I talk that have been expressing angst over the bank heists are far more moderate. But they should not be ignored. Not everyone is as informed as you and I are. Many people live in a bubble. And quite frankly, I have yet to find a **single Democrat** say they are comfortable with Geithner. He is not an asset to Obama.

Instead of casually dismissing my post and trying to imply that I sympathize with the white supremicists, how about explaining why you think that Geithner is not a serious liability?

[FrenchieCat]

11. I'm not implying anything, I'm asserting that many if not most of these

folks are nothing but hateful white folks; most who voted for McCain, and therefore lost the election.

Why harness hate directed at exactly the policies you would support?

Just because the Republicans are hiding from their party and from the public by
calling themselves something different, they are still republicans and sore losers.

I don't recall conservatives discussing how they were going to harness our movement
when we were protesting the War? These folks don't believe anything we believe; not about
health care, not about education, not about choice, not about anything really.

They aren't even that mad about the banks, considering that those who they invite to speak at their rallies never advocate any regulatory reforms. They don't even notice that most of the moneys have been paid back, and none of them support Obama's call for charging the bank fees to recoup the remainder that is still owed.

Are we really that dumb? :shrug:

[Go2Peace]

12. You are still focusing on the core tea partiers. They will never change

They are a lost cause. My point is that they should be going away, but the fact is they are not, and not only that but Republican affiliation is **going up** while Democratic affiliation is **dropping**.

Don't take me wrong FrenchieCat, we may not agree on everything, but I am as concerned as you about the next election. And I think we are really closing our eyes to think that all of our problems are the crazy tea partiers. We have our own image problems and that along with a serious and growing economically shocked and low information populace, we have some serious issues of perception we have to find a way to deal with.

We can't stop the right wing media. But my point is simply that we have made some serious gaffs as well that are giving us grief and accentuating the perceptions.

I will ask again. Why you think that Geithner is not a serious liability? EVERYONE, EVERY Democrat I know does not understand that appointment.

[FrenchieCat]

13. We can barely get along with Blue Dogs.....

What makes you think we can get along with those who carry signs clearly stating their hate
for the Democratic party and Obama specifically? Hate so intense, they are willing to
get out there and march.

I don't think they are "our Problem", I think that they are Republicans that are mad they lost.
If you think they are somehow an entire differenet breed than those who cast their votes for
McCain/Palin, then they've got you fooled.

The point is that those who want to join in their incoherent rants should.
If folks are that stupid, then they deserve anything they've got coming to them.

[Go2Peace]

16. You still have not answered the questions around the OP

with your thoughts (Geithner et all). But I suppose you aren't going to.

So let me ask this, how do we stop the slide in Democratic affiliation and how do we stop the increase in alignment with the Republican Party. If we don't reverse those they spell doom in November.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

You can go to any polling site, they all say the same thing.

I think the best way to gain the trust at this point is to get rid of Geithner and the other Wal-Street heads in his cabinet. That would make serious gains amongst not only moderates and independants, but the progressives that have been concerned about these choices as well.

We can talk about how folks "should" feel all day, but in the end, only action will change the hemorraging, and thanks to the Blue dogs other avenues are not easily pursued. This is one "game changer" he can do completely on his own. Why doesn't he?

[FrenchieCat]

19. Maybe we ought to call out the fucked up media

who has been promoting them non stop since August.

That's the kind of action I'd recommend.

[Go2Peace]

20. Obama is doing that and he is good at it, but I doubt we can turn that around so quickly

If that were so simple the teabagger movement would have been long dismissed by now.

I will ask again. Can you explain, or even simply say, that you think Geithner is not a serious liability? I think you agree or you would have said so by now. Can you at least concede that?

[FrenchieCat]

21. We've got nine months. In politics, that's an eternity! Hell, one day is an eternity in politics!

and sorry, but I don't give a shit about Geithner.....
I'm not with the "he's the devil incarnated" crowd.
I'm not that desperate to find a bad guy to hate....
cause I'm too busy hating on the fucked up Republicans,
and the last fucked up 8 years that we had to live through.

Go tell those teabaggers to march for Bank regulations and Bank Fees as Obama has suggested.
See how big a crowd of teabaggers you get to march, and call us and let us know.

They couldn't even get but 600 folks at the funky rally, and 200 of 'em were Reporters breathlessly reporting about absolutely nothing.

Are you a member of the CW Corporate Whore media?....cause sounds like you are buying your own press!

[Go2Peace]

23. That is where I think some lose perspective

Republicans are awful, but they are just a symptom of a larger disease. We could completely destroy their party and if we did not change teh underlying malaise the same problems would just crop up elsewhere.

The choice of Geithner represents that deeper ailment. And he *is* evil, in a malignant way. People like him are killing the country as dead as the Republicans, they are just more artful and hide their wickedness and destructive ideologies in places they are more difficult to recognize.

[FrenchieCat]

25. You're barking up the wrong tree.....

Geithner might represent something greater to you,
but Geithner represents nothing to me.

Would he had been my choice? I don't think so....
but there are too many Republicans who have been fucking us for years out there for me
to concentrate on Geithner.

Perhaps you don't like him, and you'll find many takers here....

I just think its a bunch of hyperbole bullshit; he's been made the poster boy
for 30 years of fucked up policies. But Obama didn't run saying he would come in
and padlock the banks, and have the government run them. He's not a socialist,
and Geithner is not the devil. Sorry.

[craigmatic]

10. Obama's job should be simple for the rest of the year in theory

1. Finish Healthcare
2. Pass a jobs bill
3. Go after banks and insurers
4. repeal don't ask don't tell

by doing #'s 1 and 4 he'll get the base excited and by doing #'s 2 and 3 hre'll get moderates and independents on his side. combined this will save some dems' seats

[Go2Peace]

14. I like your style. The "cliff notes" version.

As for #3, at this point I just don't think that can be achieved without changing his cabinet. Noone will believe that the bankers and insurers will really be geting their due as long as some of their biggest players are still seen as whispering in Obama's ears. Right or wrong as that may be.

[Cha]

15. THey're fucking racist bigoted assholes and their

"discontent" is that there's a Democratic president who happens to be 1/2 Black..and their hypocrisy is being propped up by the corporatemediaWhores.

Fuck the fucking teabaggers and the corporatemediaWhores.

[Go2Peace]

17. again, you obviously did not read through this op and the posts and completely missed what the OP

was getting at.

[Cha]

26. I obviously did read it or how would I know you were

talking about their "discontent"..poor little fuckers.

[Go2Peace]

33. Nope, you still didn't get it.

[FrenchieCat]

18. See, that's what I'm thinking!

Like Republicans voters disappeared and were replaced mysteriously by folks now known as teabaggers.
And those Teabaggers just happen to coincidently support exactly the same Republicans in office that Republicans supported! LOL! Like when you see all of the Republican leadership at their "rallies", we are just seeing folks who aren't "sure" what they believe.

and we are being asked to consider "trying" to get them to see things our way.

Meanwhile some folks can't figure out that these are simply Republicans in disguise.

Means that they didn't get fucked enough for 8 long ass years, so now, all of the sudden, 40 days after this President was inaugurated, their asses are out there marching with hate signs!

And we are supposed to get anyone that stupid to see through this charade and see things our way instead! See, that would be funny if it wasn't so dumb! :rofl:

[Go2Peace]

22. You don't need to be condescending

I fully understand who the teabagers are and who the Republicans are.

And actually, Obama *is* trying to get the Republicans to "see things his own way", which you more or less just said is not worth bothering with? I totally agree though, it isn't, the core Rs will never see things his way.

The core Rs are clearly about 37% to 40% of the country. What I am talking about is the middle 15-20% that are low information, often "outrage of the day", and heavily influenced group in the middle, between "us" and "them".

I don't think I can explain it any clearer and I am beginning to think you are more interested in attempting to marginalize my thoughts than hear what they have to say. oh well.

All in all it is a better dialog than we have had in the past though.

[FrenchieCat]

24. I don't remember ever talking to you, but whatever......

As for who Obama is trying to reach, it is the reasonables.....many are those in the middle that you speak of. He believes that the more they realize that he's the grown up in the room, and he's the one proposing what the teabaggers won't; the re-regulation of banks, and that he's the one who cut their taxes, then perhaps at some point, they'll get it.

The economy is what we need to concentrate on....that and spreading the word that the stimulus, the one that the Teabaggers hate, is working. That's how you get folks on your side; by having good policies and talking sense. So Obama has about 6 or 7 months to shore up the economy......and then will talk about this "all is lost" stuff.

Till then.

[Cha]

27. They certainly did not get Fucked enough for 8 long

years and they have fucking beck and limpbaugh to let them know it.

Teabags and their discontent..Jaysus! If they had a fucking brain they might not be such fucking racist bigoted assholes.

[BlueIdaho]

31. Please let me add...

They are OLD fucking racist assholes.

They are pissed its not the 1950's anymore. They are pissed the President in a man of color. They are pissed they have to let women out of the kitchen. They are pissed they no longer run the world. They are pissed that we are standing on their lawns - and they want us to get off NOW.

If these shits were real "patriots" they could help limit the size of government and reduce our national debt right now today - by doing one simple act. Stop cashing their government checks. They don't have to spend a dime. They don't have to mail them back. Just shred the fucking things and show Washington they reject governments intrusion into their lives.

What are they waiting for?

[Cha]

32. Hypocrisy most certainly did need to be added to

the teabaggers list of failures! Thank you, BlueIdaho~

[Odin2005]

28. K&R

This is what Chomsky was talking about.

[tabbycat31]

29. I did a blog post on this last night

http://www.bluejersey.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=14546

[Go2Peace]

34. Yep, I posted in in the wrong place. GD Presidency is full of people who have a single view

and have a hard time seeing anything from a different angle.

I might try to clean it up, because I can see that I did not explain what I was getting at very well, then try again in a different forum where people don't mostly think in "talking points" and partisan battlegrounds.

If we continue to lose ground, as we are doing now, we will need to recognize that it is not all because of the "Republicans".

The "conventional thinker" Beltway Democrats are right about one thing, the Republicans are doing just about everything that *should* making the ground underneath them collapse. But it isn't happening, and in fact they are gaining membership and Democratic affiliation is dropping.

We should be learning from this. Obviously we are making serious mistakes. But you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over.....

[LatteLibertine]

36. A few very distant side notes to consider,

Were the people who prosecuted the French Revolution violent deluded sociopaths?

Do you believe the British nobility viewed the folks trying to found the United States as "patriots" or "freedom fighters"? Were the founders of the United States deluded sociopaths?

List the number of nations that have been founded by violent means. List the number of nations that have been established non-violently. List the number of nations that have experienced meaningful reform through violent means and list the nations that have had meaningful reform come about through non-violent avenues.

That's not to suggest the Tea Party people are these things and rather to suggest not everyone who is currently discontent with our system is a deluded sociopath. Crony capitalism, corporatism and irrational greed with precious little consequences to the perpetrators are negatively impacting this nation. Harvesting the people and passing the cost on to them after you're done is hardly acceptable IMO.