"Health care savings accounts." Now THERE'S a repub idea I'd like to see them tout at the summit!

[CTyankee]

Go on, you assholes, stand up for this loser idea of yours that will go over like a lead balloon with the American public. SAY MORE ABOUT IT AT THE SUMMIT. SAY IT LOUD AND SAY IT PROUD!

I'm waiting to see them advance this little gem on the public. Talk about a non-starter. "Surely, you can put aside part of your paycheck every payday and if you do, we'll see to it that it is tax free! Such a deal!"

We need arguments like THAT to be put forward by the Republicans.

What do you wanna bet that the Republicans will even MENTION this wonderful idea at the summit or anywhere else for that matter?

[tularetom]

1. Back when people had jobs it wasn't such a terrible idea

In fact, ideally, health care would be a cash for services proposition and insurance companies would be completely out of the picture.

I remember my mom taking me to the doctor for a tetanus shot when I stepped on a rusty nail, and paying for the services with a five dollar bill. Seemed so much simpler back in 1949 or whenever. And I'd bet that health care was not 17% of the US economy then either.

[dflprincess]

20. And how long do you think it would take you to save for a bypass or chemo treatments?

My employer went to a "Consumer Driven" health plan that includes a HSA beginning this year and it sucks. The "coverage" we have has a deducticble of $1200 with a max out of pocket of $3700/year (single coverage) for covered expenses. The max you can put into your HSA in one year is $3500. Prescriptions are also subject to the deductible and I know coworkers who have cut back on their medication because of this. The fact is that high out of pocket plans eventually result in bigger expenses as people avoid going to the doctor until they can't ignore a problem.

The HSA cannot be used for things like dental or vision that are not covered by the insurance policy. For those we need a "limited FSA" that only covers those expenses.

When this was being explained to us, they tried to make it sound wonderful that, when you get $2,000 in your savings account you can (wait for it ....) invest it in a mutual fund!!!! - Just hope the market doesn't take a dive about the time you need that surgery. At that point, it became clear to us that this is just another scam to transfer money to Wall Street and the patsy who had been sent to explain this to us looked truly confused when most of us laughed at the idea of putting health care dollars into the market.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

2. I happened to hear Sean Hannity tout his/the Republicans health care "plan"

Tax credits, tort reform, health care savings accounts.

Yep, that's all we need. They don't appear to understand that Americans are going down for the third time : no jobs, no savings, no wages, no retirements, no equity, crushing debt.

[CTyankee]

3. hannity can do it because he caters to a basically insane group of conservatives.

That 25% or whatever it is. The average Jane or Joe is going to ticked off that THIS is all the repubs have got. Especially the ones who don't really pay income taxes at all because they just don't make enough income.

[Cosmocat]

10. Tax credits is like viagra to these clowns ...

nothing makes their legs tingle like taxe cuts ...

the thing is, the people who can't afford health care insurance don't make enough money for "tax credits" to even kick in ...

these lugnuts are SO far removed from the real life experience of people, not that it really matters to them ... It is all a con, and they are just turning a buck selling intellectual crack ...

[DrToast]

4. A lot of people like HSAs

And it works for many people's needs. Don't get too cocky.

[CTyankee]

5. Sure, it works fine for the upper incomes. But with so many people

out of work, underemployed, can't get health insurance, or just plain low income,this does nothing. It's worse than nothing because it shows utter contempt for ordinary people. Even with a job, they may not have a penny to put aside in a health savings account. That the repubs don't understand this shows their insensitivity.

[Jennicut]

8. We have one already. We could put $300 in it. My meds are over $100 a month,

being a diabetic.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

13. They are not the answer to all the healthcare access problems

in this country - Single Payor is. BUT - HSA's do help some employers to keep their health insurance costs down. My employer was facing a 20% increase in premiums for this year. They dropped the HMO option and only provide an HDHP with HSA (or HRA for those not eligible for HSA). They fund 85% of deductible in the HSA/HRA for the employees. We have 100% coverage after the deductible. Preventive care is covered at 100%

If an employee can't afford to fund the other 15%, their share is probably still less than it would have been with all the co-pays in the HMO. If they have a good year health-wise, the money stays in the HSA.

It is a tool - just like any other tool. It can be used to help or it can be used to harm.

[DrToast]

16. Agree. If it weren't for HSAs, my employer probably couldn't offer insurance

It may not be a long-term solution, but I'm glad they're available now.

[CTyankee]

18. As an add-on to existing insurance, it's fine. I've had them myself, back when

I was working. But as just a stand alone deal, it's a no-go. It doesn't even make any sense. How much can you put away to make much of a difference, in view of what health care costs nowadays?

[DrToast]

19. Not sure how yours worked

But mine works fine.

My employer contributes $600 a year automatically. I can also contribute up to $3,000, I think. If I don't spend that money, it carries over to the next year.

My annual deductible is $2,500, so I would never spend more than that in a year.

My boss may pay other premiums, but I don't know what they are if they do.

I work for a small company and our benefits had been shrinking every year. If not for HSAs, I probably wouldn't have insurance.

[dflprincess]

21. You won't pay more the $2500 provided everything you need is a covered expense

depending on your policy you could still have a lot of other expenses you have to pay for out of pocket (vision being one of the more common itemes not covered by medical policies).

These programs are usually just a short term fix to costs. There is growing evidence that after a company has had one from 18 months to 2 years expenses start going up for all involved because high out pocket expenses discourage people from getting routine care and tend to put off trips to the doctor until they can't ignore a problem any more. That usually means it's more expensive to treat.

[DrToast]

22. That applies to regular insurance, too

As to your second point, it would seem like I'm more inclined to get routine care because my first $600 of medical expenses are covered by my employer.

[dflprincess]

27. You may be

but a lot of us haven't had our employers put $600 into an account for us. My employer will put a few hundred into the account, but that's over the course of the year and, unlike FSAs where the amount you decide to contribute is credited as of Jan 1 you don't get any credits in the HSA until the money is actually put in the account.

If a person has a chronic condition that requires prescriptions as well doctor visits that $600 won't go very far. My "coverage" will pay for preventative tests - but what good does that do if the test comes back showing you need some follow up and you don't have the money to pay for that?

Again, there is a lot of evidence out there that these high out of pocket plans are backfiring. All they do is increase the number of underinsured. We hear that 45,000 die every year because they have no insurance but we never hear how many insured people die because they still can't afford care.

[CTyankee]

25. I retired from full time work at the end of 2004. At that time, health insurance was good, covered

A LOT. The last few years of my employment I didn't need to use the HSA.

Your situation seems to be an example of how insidious our health insurance system has become. HSA's which used to be a nice way of picking up some extras then became the norm. The squeeze is put on the consumer and the insurance companies make huge profits.

[Enrique]

6. bring it on

if the democrats are afraid to take on HSA's, then there truly is no hope. Fortunately I expect the dems will be strong on this.

[Cosmocat]

9. The average american household is $8,000

in CREDIT CARD debt, not even going into mortgages and car payments ...

the average median income is DOWN for the last 8 years or so ...

we have 10% unemployment and record defaults on mortgages ...

college education continues to skyrocket, the price of gas is on a good day $2.50 ...

But, sure, people have money to set aside in a "health care savings account ..."

[DrToast]

12. You do realize that a lot of employers contribute to HSAs, right?

For many people this gives them free medical care as long as they don't spend a significant amount. It's a great plan for young people.

I'm not saying its the solution for our health care woes, but it works for some people.

[Jennicut]

24. My husband's employer gave us $200. It was enough for two months of

meds for me. We put in $300 of our own money. It barely makes a dent.

[DrToast]

14. By the way, couldn't you shoot down the Dem plan using your same arguments?

The average american household is $8,000 in CREDIT CARD debt, not even going into mortgages and car payments ...

the average median income is DOWN for the last 8 years or so ...

we have 10% unemployment and record defaults on mortgages ...

college education continues to skyrocket, the price of gas is on a good day $2.50 ...

But, sure, people have money to set aside for health insurance premiums!

[madamesilverspurs]

7. Gak. Kind of a deju vu moment...

Didn't Bush the First suggest removing penalties for a poor person who wanted to take an early withdrawal from an IRA in order to make a downpayment on a house? I seem to recall that it went over well with those who were living in culverts at the time.

---

[Ganja Ninja]

11. How about a compromise, mental health care savings accounts?

We can start with those and see how it works out from there.

[JoePhilly]

15. Let's look at the math ... here's why this is not a great idea ....

First, let's assume you have a two earners.

Second, let's assume that they both MAX their 401k contributions ... that would be $33,000 in 2009 (16.5k x 2).

Third, let's assume they have a childcare spending account, $2000 set aside.

Forth, let's assume a $10,000 a year HCS account. This is a generous number.

For this family, that would mean setting aside $45,000 in 2009, ($33,000 of which they can't touch until retirement).

Now ... how many families can afford to set aside $45,000? The Median US income in 2007 was 50,000.

So we can cut out everyone making less ....

If you CAN afford to set aside the money I describe above, you get a nice tax break ... but few can afford to do it.

[CTyankee]

17. And that's the issue, right there!

This makes the repubs look really out of touch with the American people and that's how the Dems should portray it...give them back a little of their own medicine...

[johnaries]

23. Those already exist. I don't have one because if you don't use it

you lose it.

[unblock]

26. there's no problem that can't be solved with a no-bid contract or a tax break for the rich

i think the reason republicans have as many foot soldiers as they do is because it's just so damn EASY.

being a democrat -- ugh, all that ... THINKING!