How are we going to pull out 2012

[Ildem09]

I want to ask people who support the president 110% how do you expect to win, when the base is pissed off, the right wing is pissed off, and the independents are pissed off. I can guarantee there aren't enough of you left that will vote in any meaningful manner to effect electoral change.

The reason I skipped 2010 was that we all know we are going to loose seats. about 15-25 in the House and maybe 3-5 in the Senate. Do I want that to happen no. will it happen yes.

So do you continue to throw the base under the bus,

Do you continue to be naive and not admit there is a problem if not with the administration itself, then in how it gets its messaging out


Do we Jaunt left like Ed Rendell and Howard Dean were saying tonight

or do we Jaunt Right and roll the triangulation dice

[Dinger]

1. I Predict A Wave Of Incumbents (D & r) Being Primaried

Just watch. Let justice roll like a river.

[Barrymores Ghost]

8. I like the way you think. n/t

[suzie]

23. Yeah, way to go. Take down every Democrat that you can.

Hand it all over to the Republicans.

Then you can get back to whining full time and spending your full time behind your computer terminal ranting about how terrible the Republicans are and how stupid the Democrats are.

Primary everyone, way to gooooooo!!!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

2. We "Jaunt" in favor of Working and Middle Class Americans. eom

[golfguru]

30. Exactly, stop rewarding corporations and take care of working folks

This terrible HCR senate bill has no limits on what the for profit health
insurance outfits can charge for premiums. Yes, they can't refuse you or
cancel you, but they can screw you by inflating rates for ALL policy holders
until their profits stay juicy. The 30 million uninsured get the benefit, the
other 270 million get higher rates & mandates.

[scheming daemons]

3. Grab a history book. Look up 1996 and what happened after 1994.

In 1994, after the Newt "revolution"... Clinton's approval ratings were down to 40% and he was called "irrelevant".

Then he won in a landslide in 1996.


Why? Because he called Newt's bluff and let Newt shut the government down.



All Obama has to do is call the GOP's bluff and FORCE them to actually filibuster legislation. Put good bills out there and FORCE them to actually do it.


Let the American people see them doing it.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Nothing can happen if people are just gonna sit around tearing their hair out......

because they want to micro-manage this President
on a minute to minute basis and put words in his mouth,
bark orders while calling him names.

It's been going on since he swore the oath,
and I'm getting tired of it.

if we end up having avoided a deep depression,
the American auto companies rescued,
the Iraq war wounded down,
Guatanamo closed,
Torture specifically outlawed,
Terror not the way that government keeps citizens in line,
The Afghanistan War on a near sane footing with an end in sight,
Health Care policies improved, even if the problems are not totally solved,
the world seeing us as allies again,
Nukes significantly reduced,
Environmental issues addressed,
Science elevated,
Education rethinked,
Labor seen as a friend,
Student loans federalized,
Banking companies with more regulations on them then before,
Haiti helped greatly,
No longer on war footing with Iran,
good solid supreme court justices appointed,
Net neutrality saved,
and yes, more transparency to government than ever before....

by the end of his first term,
no matter what the vocal critics say on a day to day basis,
that will be quite a list, and I'm sure there will be more added
as we go.

Those of us sane ones who try to look at the big picture,
instead of wanting each day
for this President to do and say
exactly what we would wish are doing fine....
We appreciate what is going on....and history will bear us out.

Sorry.

[Barrymores Ghost]

10. I'm not bagging on Barry, FrenchieCat...

...but I AM willing to hang every other spineless Dem incumbent in the Senate out to dry, come the primaries.

[democrat2thecore]

15. "Fundamental change"

I've been screaming about Obama's all-insider corporate team from the get-go. How the hell do you explain that? How do you explain this economic team? I could make a list, just as long, of backtracks from this president. The biggest? His lack of respect for the voters in wanting change that was open and transparent and delivering another secretive, backroom, Rahm-led corporatist government (while giving lip service to labor, for example).

If it doesn't change - there WILL be a primary challenger or Obama will pull an LBJ and not run as he sees he HAS NO BASE.

[FrenchieCat]

17. You've got a lot of soundbytes all gathered in that post

and it makes a good rant.

Now what?

You know that in essense you are suggesting this "Primary Obama in 2012".

You know what this means, don't you?

[Splinter Cell]

5. We grow up.

We learn that lurching hard to the left will lose us more votes. We stop bitching and start fighting dirty like the scumbags in the GOP.

Most of the "left" is pissed off because what they want is unrealistic and can't be handed to them in less than a year. So they bitch and have wet-dreams about how "real liberals" like Kucinich or Dean would do in office, even though they couldn't get elected to save their ass.

We learn to understand that Obama is just the kind of leader we need. He's an adult who is simply appealing to others to be the same. He's not a political cartoon.

He is a real leader. The kind of President we've needed in this country for decades. He wants to do what's best for the country, and he deserves a fucking chance. One year in and every backseat driver in the world crawls out from under a rock and declares him a failure.

WE are giving victory to republicans by fighting amongst ourselves. We have no unity in this party whatsoever, and it's killing us.

[scheming daemons]

7. +100.... this post should be an OP

...

[Ildem09]

9. we havent had a liberal president since LBJ

Nixon had more liberal policies than what we are discussing today

[FrenchieCat]

12. So how did we get there?

and is a year long enough to reverse most of it
and also make forward strides?

How can one man do this all without the support or the patience of the people?
Especially people who call him names everyday about everything.

I find it impossible....
Why would anyone think otherwise?

[Ildem09]

16. LBJ

had the dixiecrats to face. a far more vehement group than the Conservadems today. he just buckled up and said my way or the highway. people respected his authority

[FrenchieCat]

19. Did they have the Internet than.....and did they tweeter when a nose hair blowed?

and were there folks wanting to burn him alive due to the lack of "Transparency",
so that he had no room to strategize, let alone do anything underhanded?

Was there a Corporate Cable Machine working night and day to "interpret" all that was going on,
24/7?

How many Democrats did he have in the Senate?....albeit some where Dixiecrats.

[Ildem09]

21. he had 67

about 15 were Dixiecrats

however, the dude took no bullshit from anyone. if you voted against him he would fuck your state over. it was badass

[FrenchieCat]

22. That's good.

Perhaps that's why he was LBJ.

[Ildem09]

24. I think thats what we needed

an LBJ or FDR

[FrenchieCat]

26. Yeah?

Sounds impossible....perhaps because it is.
To be given one year to reverse what's happened since LBJ?
That sounds impossible too.

[Ildem09]

27. Since Regean

I think what a lot of people have trouble with is messaging. the campaign was tight and forceful. since they got in office they've let message control slack

[FrenchieCat]

28. hard to have a message when there's a pile on top of your head,

and your feet are burned off, but you are expected to sprint for 4 years.
It's extreme, and it ain't helping....the repetitive soundbyte chatter, I mean.

[Ildem09]

31. oh i know

but he has to raise to the challenge. no one ever said it was going to be easy. obama either implied or stated he was going to do X,Y.Z and we've just come out of a conservative nightmare so of course everyone is going to want everything right away. he needs to deliver a major legislative victory soon

[FrenchieCat]

32. I agree.

Personally, I'd like to see him jump bad and kick some ass,
but he's not my puppet.....so I exercise patience,
and watch and learn. He's done good on many policy reversals,
but perhaps he's working too hard with his nose to the grindstone,
and not doing enough work on political "kicking some ass" PR messenging.

It's been one year as of today. He's got 75% of this term left.
I'll give him another 50% before deciding any assessment.
I'm gonna be fair like I was to every other President.
I don't want to discriminate just because I can.

[suzie]

25. He had a dead president to hold over everyone.

Perhaps you ought to read a little history.

Or ask a few people about November 1963.

[Ildem09]

29. Kennedy's death didn't change LBJ's personality

Read your history the dude was a badass when he was Senate leader

[suzie]

34. I don't have to read history. I remember 1963.

You're simply wrong.

However, I have read history and again, you're simply wrong.

[Ildem09]

36. what that LBJ

wasn't an effective Senate Leader? Sure he took up Kenned's mantle after he was assassinated, however it's commonly known that LBJ was far more liberal than Kennedy was

[suzie]

38. LBJ was more liberal than Kennedy?

I must have missed something while they were both alive.

LBJ's political power in passing the great legislation of the 1960s had a lot to do with "what John would have wanted".

[Ildem09]

39. in terms of concepts

in the total breadth of their policies. yes LBJ was more liberal. We cannot judge on what JFK might have done. Kennedy was also the first president to conceptualize supply side economics.

[nini]

13. excellent post

:thumbsup:

and exactly how I feel about all this. Many in this party have no clue how to pull the country back from the right and we're destroying our chances with all the childish antics. It didn't get this far right over night and it's not going to go back towards the left any faster - unfortunately.

[ruggerson]

14. You say we should start fighting dirty

and yet hardball partisan politics is exactly what this President often refuses to do.

[politicasista]

18. +1 n/t

[iceman66]

20. Very well said.

[Codeine]

40. OMG. I love you! +1 nt

[MadBadger]

6. Got another 2 1/2 years. I'll let you know then.

[boppers]

11. The Unions decided to align with Reaganomics.

That was a huge game-changer.

Do we want to avoid taxes on corporations, or not? Can we win without the unions?

[Awsi Dooger]

33. Situational advantage

Incumbent with his party in power only one term. That's the most favorable scenario in American politics, 9 wins in 10 tries over the past century+. Only loser, Carter in '80. So if Obama is considered a wimp, per the other thread, and his approval rating plummets into the low to mid 40s, he's vulnerable, particularly if the GOP finds a charismatic challenger. Overall I like Obama's chances.

I don't get too worked up about results like Tuesday, or November 2009. We lost because we figured to lose. The other side owns the situational edge, amidst economic numbers like this. Same will be true this November.

I remember being called a troll in 2004, and too complacent in 2008. If the terrain favors the other side, I'll state it, and when it favors us, I'll emphasize it. Independents are obviously a swing variable in 2012 but keep in mind the demographic shift is ongoing and we should be down to whites as only 73% of the electorate, and that's a good sign. It drops a consistent 2% every four years.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

35. If we lose congress 2012 will be a lot easier

If we do not lose congress Obama may be a one-termer. (Much like Clinton.)

But on balance I would rather keep congress and take our chances in 2012. A lot can happen in two years.

[liberalpragmatist]

37. 2012 is a LONG way away

Considering that ONE WEEK AGO, Obama looked at the height of his powers with health care a seeming fait accompli.

And if you're talking about midterms, midterms don't have a huge predictive power when it comes to presidential reelections. Clinton and, actually, Reagan in '82, had awful midterms and approvals in the low-40s, yet both won convincing reelections.

And for that matter, don't get too predictive about the midterms yet either. They look bad, but if Dems don't continue their unconscionable freakout and instead snap out of it, pass health care, and move on to jobs, who knows what'll happen? Remember that in '98, all year it looked like it was going to be a debacle for Dems - projections of filibuster-proof Republican Senate majority, another 20-30 seat gain in the House. In the end, Democrats gained seats in the House and held their ground in the Senate.

[TheKentuckian]

41. Rhythm method? (eom)

[quaker bill]

42. The.economy.will.recover.

When the economy is growing, not even sordid details of trysts with interns matter. Depending on the poll, a majority or near majority of Americans support this President in a crappy economy. In a growing economy, those numbers will grow back to landslide proportions.

Fascinatingly, it will be the construction industry that gets it started and likely by February 2010. This industry has over corrected and is now much smaller than can meet inherent demand. While demand will not reach pre-recession levels for many years to come, current pent-up demand is sufficient to cause considerable growth from the current nearly arrested state.

I work regulating this industry in one of the hardest hit markets in the US. I see the signs of a rebound every day when I go to work. For the first time in 8 months, my voicemail box is overflowing again with people trying to get projects started. Last fall I was getting a few calls and meetings a week with people bearing stimulus checks. Now, my voicemail and calendar are filling with folks bearing private sector money.

Take a deep breath, give it a couple of months, things will be looking quite different.

[secondwind]

43. IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID! (not meant as an insult, just quoting here)