There are a few things that strike me from the TSA "debate."

[nadinbrzezinski]

1.- Now I finally get it, how Countries can and are closed down. It does not matter if this is Germany, Italy, Argentina, Chile, Russia, or the US... the procedure is essentially the same. It involves a culture of fear, and we are seeing it here play once again.

2.- People really are not aware (and perhaps that is a good thing) how real security works. The problem is, those trying to get through do pay attention. The only reason they have not managed to penetrate again, is not TSA... but the fact that they have to penetrate security at airports that have some... and yes they have managed to do it it a few times. I suspect that if there was not an ocean, we'd have far more troubles than we really do... and that is due to the theater.

3.- Yes, to those of you who discount the threat... it is a real threat, but to be brutally honest we don't treat it seriously but as an excuse... see point number one.

In the end, as the water continues to rise, perhaps the frogs finally noticed... but we will only know when there is an actual effect on the airlines... that is the only thing they get... and the only pressure that will work, imho. We are way too invested in the corruption we have... that is all.

And in the end it saddens me...

[leftstreet]

1. 4) This is also a labor issue

50,000+ TSA employees can vote on union representation

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. The scatter machines and gropes are not a labor issue

and I am aware of the Union.

In fact these measures ARE a management issue, who has ordered them to do this.

[leftstreet]

3. Have any TSA employees been charged & convicted of this 'groping?'

Other than here on DU?

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Re-read my OP

By the way before you accuse me of hating TSA rank and file, I KNOW a couple of the. Good people, they did not write these procedures. And the ACLU WILL be taking them to court... no, not the TSA rank and file employee...

And yes what they are doing, TECHNICALLY, is groping and in another setting could and would be construes as sexual assault. The only possible exception, which requires a witness, is a medical examination.

[leftstreet]

10. I have no problem with your OP

I was only adding that the underlying labor issue is significant. It's why we're seeing so much anti TSA worker propaganda.

Thousands and thousands of people are assaulted each day in prisons, nursing homes, mental facilities, etc, but the M$M doesn't generate a bazillion stories about them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. This is about the new procedures actually

and the tertiary deployment of the scatter machines.

Now people, in situations like this, will lash out at the first thing they see... like they always do, and not the ones giving the orders. This is where education comes in.

Now if you are saying this is about anti union feelings... there is this effort going back to the 1950s to destroy unions... that is a far longer continuum.

[noise]

13. One reason (for focusing on screeners) is the reluctance to question the Obama administration

After all only teabaggers would do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I know, we must not talk of upper management

and the Secretary of Homeland Security... or for that matter her boss.

:hi:

[Brickbat]

15. If it's a management issue, then it's a labor issue.

[seabeyond]

4. everyone knows there are threats. clearly. we also know naked scans and groping isnt the answer.nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. You said it all with #1. Fear. (which then allows the greed/$$$).

I remain astonished on how so many in our country are so quick and willing to give up our hard earned freedoms.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Sadly I am not astonished

it happens time and time again. I just didn't get how easy it was.

The culture of Fear started well before 9.11, and now it has matured into this.

[noise]

7. We don't know the true nature of the theat

due to excessive government secrecy. The Bush administration claimed they must have dictatorial powers to prevent terrorist attacks. Obama has picked up where they left off claiming the President has the authority to assassinate citizens based on unitary executive power.

Is it true that we must have a police state to prevent terrorist attacks? I doubt it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. This is why I said the state has been closed

it is inverted totalitarism.

No need for the jack boots, same result though.

[Roma]

12. 3 yo screaming kids, nuns, old ladies in wheel chairs etc etc

The last few days I have heard more than once that in order to avoid offending "certain groups" the TSA has succeeded in offending everyone equally and more than one call for profiling.

With the country in danger of lurching further right I can envision it happening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. We should have israelized the airports a while ago

it works, and it is equal opportunity, and far less invasive too... unless you trip a trained screener. Then it can get very invasive, but at that point they have this little thing required by the Fourth Amendment, Probably Cause.

I have to admit it. I have yet to be looked in the eye by a screener in the US. In Mexico City... at least four times before I board a plane.

[LibDemAlways]

17. Requiring people to undergo sexual assault as a prerequisite to

getting on an airplane is unconstitutional, immoral, and just plain wrong.

You are right that only economic pressure - and lots of it - on the airlines by a fed up public that refuses to fly (unless absolutely necessary in circumstances where there is no other option) will make a difference. As more and more people receive this humiliating treatment at the airports and swear off flying things will have to improve or the airlines will all go under.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I think that is what will happen

'xept for bidness travelers who have no choice, I know that my next flight to Mexico City will be THROUGH the TIJUANA Airport.

I am done with Lindberg Field until this shit ends. I got a choice though. Hell, will see about a Mexico City-Maui route... if I can, even if that means flying into the US and out of the US... to come back to the US... and only because MIL is in Maui...