Obama: Offshoring Fears Are Outdated, Unwarranted

[somone]

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/209970/president_obama_offshoring_fears_are_outdated_unwarranted.html

President Obama: Offshoring Fears Are Outdated, Unwarranted
By John Ribeiro, IDG News

The perception that Indian call centers and back office operations cost U.S. jobs is an old stereotype that ignores today's reality that two-way trade between the U.S. and India is helping create jobs and raise the standard of living in both countries, U.S. President Barack Obama told a gathering of business executives in Mumbai on Saturday.

President Obama's remarks come after some moves in the U.S. that had Indian outsourcers worried that the U.S. may get protectionist in the wake of job losses in the country. The state of Ohio, for example, banned earlier this year the expenditure of public funds for offshore purposes...

President Obama's speech is a recognition that jobs cannot be created by protectionism but by a growth in trade, said Som Mittal, president of the National Association of Software and Services Companies (Nasscom). The message for India's outsourcing industry in the speech was very positive, he added.

India's top outsourcers like Tata Consultancy Services and Infosys Technologies, have posted strong revenue and profit growth in the quarter ended Sept. 30, and are adding staff by the thousands...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/06/AR2010110602034.html

Obama's visit to India's business centers prompts look at outsourcing
By Emily Wax
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, November 6, 2010; 12:30 PM

...In the latest phase of globalization, some economists say, Silicon Valley is in danger of losing a sizable piece of its knowledge-based industry to India in much the same way Detroit lost its lead to Japan in the automotive industry. While the United States is still the innovation leader with global projects like the iPhone, thousands of high-tech jobs with iconic companies like IBM and Accenture have been shipped to Indian shores.

"If you look at the historical evolution of globalization, this is simply the latest phase. The center of gravity has shifted, with cars moving to Japan, then low-cost manufacturing moving to China and now the more knowledge-intensive work flowing to India," said Partha Iyengar, head of research for Gartner India, a U.S.-based global IT research organization. "Unfortunately, this time the U.S. is feeling it." ...

"These old stereotypes and old concerns ignore today's reality," the president said on the first of three days he will spend in India. "Trade between our countries is not just a one-way street of American jobs and companies moving to India. It is a dynamic two-way relationship that is creating jobs, growth and higher standards in both our countries." ...

Some Indian IT leaders estimate that 350,000 American jobs have moved to India over the past decade, but American outsourcing experts say that number may be much higher. IT leaders in India say outsourcing does not hurt American companies but makes them more efficient and helps the U.S. economy by freeing up money for innovation and investments. Outsourcing experts and advocates for American workers say that while outsourcing helps corporate America, American engineers and computer programmers see few benefits...

[Brickbat]

1. Barf.

ETA: Recc'ed it back up to zero.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. I wonder if that statement will come back to haunt him as the allowance of offshore drilling did.

[cliffordu]

3. I'M NOT CLEAR as to what jobs Indian call centers create here in the US...

[demwing]

13. I've lost TWO jobs to outcourcing to India

and once to the Phillipines.

[Better Believe It]

14. You can move to India and get a job at a call center. What more do you want?

[aquart]

40. No, I believe they've set limits on foreigners taking their jobs.

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. Efficiency consultants? n/t

[treestar]

46. He didn't say that, in fact that the call centers are a stereotype

The trade between the two nations is something no one on DU knows a thing about.

[baldguy]

52. Sometimes a stereotype exists because it reflects reality.

[treestar]

91. When?

When do stereotypes reflect a reality?

Certainly on progressive DU we are not going to defend stereotypes.

[baldguy]

92. When companies close US call centers just to open up new ones in India.

Don't even try to say it's not true. I've lived that stereotype too many times.

[treestar]

96. It's not the overall view

of the entire relationship between India and the US though.

That's the point.

[baldguy]

102. The overwhelming majority of those who've experienced outsourcing view it as such

And they're correct. Millions of Americans have had their jobs swept out from under them & shipped offshore, putting them out of work through no fault of their own. The handful of jobs we've got back will never replace them, either in numbers or in value. American politicians who ignore or dismiss this in favor continuing to allow outsourcing do so at their own peril - and America's.

[laughingliberal]

139. +1000 nt

[PassingFair]

93. "Stereotype"

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkFZoUIjOsnMBTrx0RYxcgUNTp1ue0ZgkbeVCf1luHTRA5f_E&t=1&usg=__i9QC3gFgU4GItlxeY3vnLUkMQwQ=


Like our entire nation-wide ART DEPARTMENT
where I work didn't outsource to Bangalore
in 2005.

Stereotype my ASS.

[Skittles]

106. LOLOL

:rofl:

[Exilednight]

130. Trade between the two nations is something you might no nothing about, but here's

some information to help you out.

Trade with India : 2010
NOTE: All figures are in millions of U.S. dollars on a nominal basis, not seasonally adjusted unless otherwise specified.
Month Exports Imports Balance
January 2010 1,295.5 2,079.4 -783.9
February 2010 1,235.2 1,958.1 -722.9
March 2010 1,454.8 2,472.4 -1,017.6
April 2010 1,671.2 2,650.0 -978.8
May 2010 1,852.9 2,672.6 -819.7
June 2010 1,690.6 2,532.6 -841.9
July 2010 1,800.2 2,591.4 -791.2
August 2010 1,716.8 2,773.5 -1,056.7
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL 12,717.1 19,729.9 -7,012.7



Trade with India : 2009
NOTE: All figures are in millions of U.S. dollars on a nominal basis, not seasonally adjusted unless otherwise specified.
Month Exports Imports Balance
January 2009 1,139.8 1,833.5 -693.7
February 2009 1,046.8 1,579.0 -532.2
March 2009 1,123.5 1,773.0 -649.5
April 2009 1,268.8 1,799.2 -530.4
May 2009 1,507.5 1,580.8 -73.4
June 2009 1,397.9 1,564.2 -166.3
July 2009 1,658.0 1,824.8 -166.9
August 2009 1,677.8 1,643.7 34.1
September 2009 1,641.6 2,069.0 -427.4
October 2009 1,502.9 1,989.8 -486.9
November 2009 1,070.0 1,724.1 -654.2
December 2009 1,406.7 1,784.6 -378.0
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL 16,441.4 21,166.0 -4,724.6


So there it is. In eight months of 2010 we nearly doubled the deficit of trade from 2009. That is just hard numbers in dollars and cents and does not include the brain-drain or number of jobs outsourced.

[OlympicBrian]

138. Wow important post!

Thanks. Must be offshoring like crazy going on.

[OlympicBrian]

141. Do you think this huge imbalance

Do you think this huge imbalance is one reason he made the trip? Those are some big numbers, my friend.

[Exilednight]

142. It depends on what comes out of it and how much long term stability is ..............

attached to these deals.

On the flip side of the coin, many of these deals are arms deals. And we know how well these deals work out in the long run.

[OlympicBrian]

143. Do you have the numbers on the arms?

I'll try to find on the web.

[Exilednight]

144. Here you go.

President Obama is traveling to India this weekend to make a $5 billion sale for 10 of Boeing's C-17 cargo planes. If India signs the contract, this would be the sixth biggest arms deal in U.S. history.

This and the pending $60 billion deal with Saudi Arabia will certainly help to jump-start the economy, as they have for the past fifty years.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/top-10-us-arms-deals-in-history-2010-11#ixzz14kG5Rq3Q

[RagAss]

4. There goes 2012 !

[polichick]

17. Hopefully, he'll be primaried by someone who isn't a Republican enabler...

It's our only chance of holding the WH - as long as he's a lame Republican wanna-be, indies will vote for the real thing.

[RagAss]

24. Amen !

[femrap]

61. The corporations will just find

someone else to do their dirty work....he'll lie during the campaign and then make Bernanke Treasury Sec'y...or some dude from Goldman Sucks.

[polichick]

67. If this country has a chance, we'll have to find a leader who's...

...immune to corporate corruption - and, more importantly, an electorate that is immune to corporate media and ads.

[femrap]

84. Maybe Mother Nature

will 'shake' some sense into people...jolting the electorate back into the days of little electricity. Nothing else could move some of these 'citizens' off of their sofas.

[BzaDem]

This has been Obama's policy since mid '08, so I'm not sure why you think it will matter in 2012. nt

[Kolesar]

5. More jobs are lost to automation, but OTOH

My employer decided to offshore electronic design work to Mumbai

Puts the "Bye" in to Mumbai

FFS

[Better Today]

6. Great, just f'ing great, NOT!

[Wickerman]

7. wtf?

This is all trying my patience.

[peace frog]

8. OMFG

Well, that's that. Farewell, America.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Yes, American workers just have to become more competitive.

Rolling back minimum wage to 20 cents an hour would be a reasonable start.

[Better Believe It]

28. I think that would be called "wage slavery". Oh! That's what Karl Marx was writing about!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vmpSO2BbYCE/SU79r9jETqI/AAAAAAAAD_8/bxBxBOhEQJo/s400/Karl+Marx.jpg

[Jackpine Radical]

34. The nice thing about wage slaves

is that you don't have to make the huge capital investment of actually buying them. You can just sort of lease them and dispose of them when they are no longer useful. If one dies on you, you just collect the Dead Peasant Insurance & hire another one.

[emulatorloo]

35. There's no direct quotes from Obama in this article. All reporter summary.

Don't you find that a little odd.

[treestar]

47. No, Indian prosperity has to reach a height where they become

consumers and not willing to work for 20 cents any more.

We do not have the right to keep them third world forever just because we think, mistakenly, that it threatens us.

Why do we have some inherent right to be the only middle class country (along with the other first world countries)

[leftstreet]

62. Do you feel this same way about workers in Latin America?

China?

Haiti?

:shrug:

[treestar]

97. Why do you feel they shouldn't prosper either?

Of course. We'd all be better off the more prosperous other countries are too.

Are you saying everyone in the third world just has to stay poor for our benefit? How do you justify that?

[MrTriumph]

71. At the expense of American jobs & prosperity? Not acceptable

x

[Jackpine Radical]

72. Yes, you're ultimately right.

We need a strong and effective international labor movement, with transnational unions to match the transnational corporations. It will be a long road to get there, though.

That said, I think you can do quite well in terms of living standards in India with an income 1/3 that of an American SW engineer. For instance, you could probably afford a couple of servants on that income.

[xor]

87. We can't compete with countries that have lower/no minimum wage and ALSO have free higher education

The latter being 100% our own problem that we need to solve.

[Bonobo]

116. Jeezus! The only reason we outsource to India is BECAUSE of their economy.

You couldn't be more confused.

[Bonobo]

117. Dupe. Hiccup.

[Marr]

131. I didn't realize our mission was to improve the Indian economy.

I misunderstood. I thought national economic and trade policies were supposed to serve the interests of the nation as a whole.

[polichick]

10. WTF?!

[Mudoria]

11. Does this man have a clue?

Tell that to the millions of Americans out of work.....

[HereSince1628]

12. Clearly, you've been on the phone with the Clintons.

Spoken like a lawyer who hasn't read about Indian law firms contracting for off-shore work.

[JustAmused]

15. Unbelievable

One of his campaign promises was to end tax breaks for outsourcing companies. Amazing.

[Mimosa]

23. That campaign promise had me excited

I believed he'd help American workers.

[ProSense]

16. Reuters: Obama signals tough stance on prickly India issues

Obama signals tough stance on prickly India issues

(Reuters) - Days ahead of his visit to India, President Barack Obama has signaled he will take a tough stance on prickly issues such as outsourcing, and limits on exports of sensitive technology.

Indian news agency Press Trust of India (PTI), which interviewed Obama on Wednesday, quoted him as saying it was "very difficult and complicated" to meet key Indian expectations such as ending a ban on U.S. exports of dual-use technology to India.

New Delhi wants the United States to allow exports of dual-use technology, which can be used for both civilian and military purposes and which was banned after India carried out nuclear tests in 1998.

"Our teams continue to work hard to reach an agreement that strengthens the international non-proliferation system while treating India in a manner that is consistent with our strategic partnership," Obama told PTI news agency.

Obama's visit will come days after his Democrats were punished in mid-term elections over the sluggish economic recovery and high domestic unemployment. These problems have heightened tensions over the outsourcing of American jobs to low-cost countries like India.

The visit puts the spotlight on India's $60 billion IT sector, which argues it is a creator of jobs in the United States and should not be blamed for high unemployment.

An increase in U.S. visa fees, a ban on offshoring by the state of Ohio and the industry's portrayal in campaign publicity as a drain on U.S. jobs has set a frosty tone in India ahead of the visit, which begins on Saturday.

more

Some media are going to feed RW propaganda, and sadly a lot of people are going to eat it up.

[polichick]

26. Looks like he's going for more trade, but not trying to stop outsourcing. nt

[ProSense]

29. That is not what the article says.

People are flying off the handle over the OP article, which sounds like RW propaganda. The President just signed a tax increase on multinational corporations, and has been pushing hard against outsourcing.

[polichick]

37. I truly hope he sticks to his guns, but at this point will have to see it to believe it...

He has caved far too often.

[Marr]

132. Well, the usual apologists are *defending* the position described in the OP.

So what does that tell you?

[emulatorloo]

31. I will have a better idea if I see an article with actual quotes. This one is all "reporter summary"

[polichick]

38. I agree, but even his quotes can usually be taken at least two ways...

I want him to cut the triangulation crap, talk straight, and stick to what he says.

[tpsbmam]

18. WTF??!! I fucking give up.

:grr: :grr: :banghead:

[4dsc]

19. BS alert here

I know that the right has been tauting India as an nation on the rise. Too bad they are still one of the poorest nations in the world and always will be.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

21. How come there is not a single ACTUAL QUOTE from Obama's talk in the article?

On Edit: Shift from mobile to desktop

I dunno about you, but I find that rather bizarre. No quotes, just "Reporter Summary."

Seriously WTF?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

27. There is not a SINGLE DIRECT QUOTE FROM OBAMA in the article. All Reporter "summary"

Sorry, that's a little FISHY to me.

[demwing]

30. Here are the quotes from the Hindustan Times

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Do-away-with-old-stereotypes-Obama-tells-Americans-Indians/Article1-622801.aspx

"I make no apology for what I have done to create jobs in the US. And I want to be honest, that for many Americans their only experience with trade and globalisation has been a shuttered factory or a job that has been shipped overseas," Obama told a business summit at the Trident Hotel in Mumbai on the first day of his maiden four-day visit to India."

"And there still exists a caricature of India as a land of call centres and back-offices that cost American jobs. That's a real perception," the president added.

Nudging India to open up key sectors like retail and agriculture, which hold a huge potential for American companies, Obama said: "Here in India, I know many still see, perceive the arrival of American companies and products as threats to small shop keepers and to India's ancient and proud culture."

"But these old stereotypes, these old concerns ignore today's reality. In 2010, trade between our countries is not just a one-way street of American jobs and companies moving to India," said Obama.

The president, who on Thursday portrayed his trip as primarily economic, said ties with India constituted a "defining and indispensable" partnership of this century and asked businesses from the two countries to look at each other as partners and not threats.

"It is a dynamic two-way relationship which is creating jobs, growth and higher living standards in both our countries and that is the truth."

So it sounds like Obama is trying to create stronger ties to India, and "create jobs."

So explain how sending MORE American compaines to India (not just call centers and back offices) will create jobs in America?

[Jamastiene]

118. I guess we should have been waaaay more specific about creating jobs.

We want him to create jobs IN America. He seems to think creating jobs elsewhere in the world should count as creating jobs. How clueless is that? :banghead:

[Waiting For Everyman]

25. Tone deaf.

My favorite are the offshored Food Stamp call centers.

[PSPS]

32. The article itself indicates how out of touch Obama is

In the first sentence, Obama tells "a gathering of business executives in Mumbai" that the preception is "an old stereotype."

Yet, the second sentence tells us that "Indian outsourcers" are worried about the US becoming "protectionist." Why the worry if it's "an old stereotype?"

Next, we have the non-sequitur "jobs cannot be created by protectionism" uttered by "Som Mittal, president of the National Association of Software and Services Companies (Nasscom)." I guess he's talking about CEO jobs at "Software and Services Companies." But not to worry, I guess. "The message for India's outsourcing industry in the speech was very positive, he added."

Next, we learn that "India's top outsourcers like Tata Consultancy Services and Infosys Technologies, have posted strong revenue and profit growth in the quarter ended Sept. 30, and are adding staff by the thousands." None of those jobs, of course, is domestic.

Except for Lenovo, who has their call center in Atlanta, every contact I have with a company's staff ends up in India. Examples are Dell, Intuit and Microsoft. Even Qwest's DSL technical support is handled in India.

I wonder if we'll ever have another democratic president.

[pampango]

33. Obama in India: Outsourcing costing Americans their jobs

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Outsourcing-costing-Americans-their-jobs-Obama/Article1-622788.aspx

Concerned over rising unemployment in the US, President Barack Obama on Saturday said outsourcing work to overseas locations like India has cost Americans their jobs. In possibly a heartbreaking statement for the Indian IT industry, which gets over 60 per cent of its business from the US, Obama said, "...there still exists a caricature of India as land of call centres and back offices that costs American jobs. That's a real perception."

Addressing a US India business council meet here, Obama said, "There are many Americans whose only experience with trade and globalisation has been shuttered factories or jobs being shift overseas."

Obama, who is on a three-day visit to India, added, "As we look to India today, the US sees a potential to sell exports in one of the fastest growing markets in the world. For Americans, this is a job threat as we recover from recession."

[aquart]

39. No, according to this, that's our "perception."

Not exactly the same as a statement of fact.

It is however, the kind of remark that can be followed in negotiation by "now what are we going to do to change that perception"?

[aquart]

36. WRONG.

My god, we gave our prosperity to India as a gift.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. Populism is so... gauche. nt

[demwing]

45. Populism is awkward? Tactless?

Is it too uncomfortable for you, or did I miss the sarcasm tag?

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. The *one time* I neglect to use the sarcasm tag.

I thought my point would be obvious.

The same week we got our asses kicked by mama grizzly and the badger klan, he goes to India to meditate with the swamis of globalization.

Clearly the donations of those who profit from outsourcing are more important than the votes of the people who suffer it.

[demwing]

54. Thanks. Sorry for the confusion

I've been edgy for the last few days. Can't imagine why, though...

[demwing]

43. Ok, how about this? I LOVE OBAMA!

He is such a man of the people! He REALLY gets EVERYTHING that is important to me, and displays his concern and appreciation for progressive issues at every turn.

I love him so much my heart aches.

I want MORE of the SAME, because that is what will obvisouly win more elections for Democrats.

2010 is looking to be a banner year for Democrats! GO TEAM!

[demwing]

128. Ok, so blatantly saying "Fuck this President" is bad, BUT

being insincere in praise to the point of ridiculousness, so much so that when I say "I LOVE Obama" you know I really mean "#$%^& this President" is acceptable?

Right!

[DainBramaged]

44. Completely oblivious to reality, fighting for the corporations not US

:eyes:


God help us all.

[timtom]

48. Well, YEAH! Those fears are outdated and unwarranted NOW

because the worst has happened. The petroleum industry has just brought down the sword of doom. No need to fear now.

[asdjrocky]

49. Translation?

He doesn't have to worry. His rich friends don't have to worry. His banker friends don't have to worry.

Fuck. This. Shit.

[baldguy]

51. I've lost three different jobs to call centers in India.

Seems the "two-way trade" only has traffic going one way.

[gmoney]

53. "Trade between our countries is not just a one-way street..."

"Trade between our countries is not just a one-way street of American jobs and companies moving to India..."

No, it's also big firms importing huge numbers of tech workers into the US to replace people here who are used to getting a good wage.

[glitch]

57. + b i n g o nt

[theHandpuppet]

126. +1000!

Well said.

[Lance_Boyle]

137. 'It's more like a series of one-way tubes.' n/t

[IDemo]

55. IDemo, in his best Inspector Columbo voice:

"Umm, excuse me, Mr. President," (clutching forehead with one hand and cigar with the other) "and forgive me if I'm wrong, heh, you know I've been wrong before, my wife will be the first to tell you that, but, you told me:"

“For years, our tax code has given billions of dollars in tax breaks, encouraging firms to create jobs in other nations. I want to change that,” the President said. Instead of tax loopholes that incentivise investments in overseas jobs, he will propose a “generous, permanent extension of tax credit that goes to firms for research and innovation done in the US”.

[Richard Steele]

56. Most disappointing President EVER.

EVER

[earth mom]

58. Workers of America: UNDER THE BUS!

But no worries, you aren't alone!

There are gays, teachers, seniors, lefties, atheists and so many other great people under that bus with you.

Enjoy!

:sarcasm:

[femrap]

59. Deja Vu.....

Just like Clinton....a move to the Right. In fact, he beat the Republicans to initiating and completing the goals of the Corporations. NAFTA, for example.

WASF.

WTF do we sell to India? What? Pron? They don't need our movies anymore....theirs win our Academy Awards. I really liked that movie, too. Better than ours.

But just what do we export to India???? WTF do we make here anymore? Wheat? I know we don't export beef. What?

[Lucian]

60. And we voted him in for president...why?

[de novo]

63. Because he wasn't a republican.

[Lucian]

64. Sometimes that's not good enough anymore.

[SammyWinstonJack]

125. Really? How's that working out?

:shrug:

[QC]

69. Because he looked so dreamy on Oprah. n/t

[Bluebear]

110. :thud:

[Jamastiene]

120. There are those knees again.

Knee Lovers of the world UNITE!

[Skittles]

107. because he LOOKED GOOD!

and gave PURTY SPEECHES about HOPE and CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!

[HughBeaumont]

114. The choice was either Clinton Part II or putting a bullet in the USA as we know it.

Given that below-average menu, I'll choose Clinton Part II every time.

Really, what's he going to say to India? "You're big boys now, make your own way in life"? I wish he WOULD say that, since America obviously has it's own problems aside from the zero-sum inshoring/offshoring nonsense, but you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see what you'll get first.

[walldude]

65. Pfffft...

Obama hater.










































:sarcasm:

[Fgiriun]

66. The same...

bullshit argument fucking republicans use to perpetuate their insane taxcuts®. I'm afraid to say this but Obama is absolutely clueless. He has taken a stubborn stance towards the center-right and is unwilling to think beyond irrational ideas such as compromise.

[Vinca]

68. I'm astonished. He has no idea WTF is going on out here in the real world.

[nc4bo]

70. wtf O?!

What side of reality do you get up on every morning.

[Gin]

74. all those Indians that came to be trained for our jobs while I was at EDS

were figments of my imagination...his job and future are safe..beam me up scotty.

[nc4bo]

85. Bet you had to train them or lose your job too, that's usually how it works

I hear.

It all sounds so New World Order-ish to me.

[City Lights]

73. Oh brother.

:eyes:

I would love to know whose standard of living is being raised in the US by shipping jobs to India.

[ikri]

83. Oh, that's easy

The CEOs of the companies offshoring the jobs who have made out like bandits have seen their standards of livings rise considerably.

Just because you can't afford that 3rd yacht doesn't mean that some unfortunate CEO should miss out now does it?

:sarcasm: (just in case)

[kentuck]

75. They didn't just move the call centers....

they moved the manufacturing also. Both are jobs that Americans can do.

[End Of The Road]

76. WHO is advising Obama these days?

I can't believe anyone would have advised him to say this. It's nuts, and coming on the heels of last Tuesday's disaster these remarks won't do shit to help him.

Kinda heartbreaking.

[NoodleyAppendage]

77. Well...maybe the last election wasn't such a bad thing.

I don't suspect that Republicans will make this situation better, but given this information I'm sure as hell not happy with Obama!

J

[The Backlash Cometh]

78. Well, he just lost us, didn't he?

I think Kumar has been giving him the good stuff to smoke.

This would make more sense if Obama actually had new jobs to show Americans, for each one that gets lost.

[Individualist]

79. How Orwellian!

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

82. And YOUR post has an unfounded assumption! I happen to love many aspects of India,

from art to food.

But out-sourcing? Not so much.

[nc4bo]

86. This isn't about bigotry. It just so happens that many outsourcing jobs went to India but

insert any country's name and you'll have the same issues.

It's not racial.

[phleshdef]

89. It doesn't have to be racial to be bigoted.

And really, maybe bigotry is the wrong word, "prejudiced" however, is accurate. They jumped to conclusions about what the President is doing over there, simply because its India. They equate India to outsourcing automatically without reading about how these deals are going to create jobs. Thats prejudging without knowing, its prejudice.

[pampango]

113. "insert any country's name and you'll have the same issues" - nationalism, not racism or bigotry.

"Liberal nationalism, also known as civic nationalism or civil nationalism, is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from the active participation of its citizenry, from the degree to which it represents the "general will". It is often seen as originating with Jean-Jacques Rousseau and especially the social contract theories which take their name from his 1762 book The Social Contract. Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism, but as a form of nationalism it is contrasted with ethnic nationalism. Membership of the civic nation is considered voluntary. Civic-national ideals influenced the development of representative democracy in countries such as the United States and France."

"Critics of nationalism have argued that it is often unclear what constitutes a 'nation', or why a nation should be the only legitimate unit of political rule. A nation is a cultural entity, and not necessarily a political association, nor is it necessarily linked to a particular territorial area - although nationalists argue that the boundaries of a nation and a state should, as far as possible, coincide. Philosopher A.C. Grayling describes nations as artificial constructs, "their boundaries drawn in the blood of past wars". He argues that "there is no country on earth which is not home to more than one different but usually coexisting culture. Cultural heritage is not the same thing as national identity"."

"In the Western world, the most comprehensive current ideological alternative to nationalism is cosmopolitanism. Ethical cosmopolitanism rejects one of the basic ethical principles of nationalism: that humans owe more duties to a fellow member of the nation, than to a non-member. It rejects such important nationalist values as national identity and national loyalty. However, there is also a political cosmopolitanism, which has a geopolitical program to match that of nationalism: it seeks some form of world state, with a world government. Very few people openly and explicitly support the establishment of a global state, but political cosmopolitanism has influenced the development of international criminal law, and the erosion of the status of national sovereignty. In turn, nationalists are deeply suspicious of cosmopolitan attitudes, which they equate with eradication of diverse national cultures."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

[WinkyDink]

81. The MAJOR problem, nay, flaw, in this argument = There are BILLIONS who will work for pittances.

The American worker is at the end of an extremely long line for "jobs, growth and higher standards...."

Perhaps he is using code for "Please don't attack Pakistan."

[Skidmore]

88. There is some truth to that. I heard on the radio earlier a comment

to the effect that the purpose of this trip was to increase exports to India. The first thought that came to mind was that we no longer produce much of anything to export. Hell, we've even exported our customer services lines. What do we produce here? Right now the fed is the only entity producing...oh and the auto industry.

[pampango]

111. In 2008, US' manufacturing output was greater than that of the manufacturing output of China, India,

and Brazil combined.

Manufacturing in the United States

The United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2007 industrial output of US$2.69 trillion. In 2008, its manufacturing output was greater than that of the manufacturing output of China, India, and Brazil combined, despite manufacturing being a very small portion of the entire US economy as compared to most other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States#Manufacturing

[B Calm]

90. What's next? Give the rich bastards who sent our jobs away another tax cut?

[countrydad58]

94. Obama

in 2 yrs you shall be outdated too. I again I ask all Obama Apologists where is your tipping point?

[Duer 157099]

95. "..creating jobs, growth and higher living standards in BOTH our countries and that is the truth."

Just saying it does not make it true.

Where is the proof that the US is enjoying a HIGHER standard of living due to outsourcing? All evidence points to exactly the opposite.

Unless he means for the top 5%, then perhaps it's true.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

98. Does he know this stuff said abroad gets reported in the US?

[Subdivisions]

99. This is a bunch of...

GLOBALIST BULLSHIT!!!

Get your fucking head out of your fucking ass, MR PRESIDENT, and bring some jobs HOME!

[HughBeaumont]

100. More corporatist, "let-do" bullshit that doesn't square with the facts.

Read these charts . . .

. . . and these

and read this book -

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dXNrZ-FaL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

And get back to me. Ever since the free trade agreements have been put in place, America has not created ONE NET NEW JOB. NOT. ONE.

[andym]

101. Andy Grove, former chairman of Intel, begs to disagree

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9487834

[kentuck]

103. But everything in moderation, Mr President.

Must wwe export all the jobs?

[Prometheus Bound]

104. Partha Iyengar, research head for Gartner, is really out of date.

"If you look at the historical evolution of globalization, this is simply the latest phase. The center of gravity has shifted, with cars moving to Japan, then low-cost manufacturing moving to China and now the more knowledge-intensive work flowing to India," said Partha Iyengar, head of research for Gartner India, a U.S.-based global IT research organization.

2008 motor vehicle production
Japan - 11.5 million
China - 9.3 million
US - 8.7 million

2009 production
China - 13.8 million
Japan - 7.9 million
US - 5.7 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:World_motor_vehicle_production_by_country_in_2009

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RB TexLa]

108. He's right. We are a global economy, there isn't a we and them, there is only we

The sooner Americans learn to accept that the better.

[donco6]

123. So when are "they" gonna start contributing taxes to "we"?

Because our taxes go to subsidize those very same companies that are providing jobs to "they." And that's not OK.

[The2ndWheel]

133. Global corporations, regional governments

One of those will have to give.

[Marr]

135. Really. Odd then, that so many nations are outperforming us in this

"global economy" by having trade and labor laws that *gasp*... protect the interests of their own nation's citizenry.

[JoseGaspar]

109. The word, "duplicitous" comes to mind;

...the words, "tone deaf", as well.

I guess "chastised" had a half life of about 3 days.

(Don't worry, Canada... I didn't really mean it about NAFTA, either. That was just silly political talk meant for the rubes who vote for me.)

[meow mix]

112. hahahaha, jobs are outdated!!

:wtf:

[Jamastiene]

115. Will somebody wake me up from this nightmare?

I don't buy that claim for a second.

OMFG, just create some damn jobs in this country and quit making excuses.

[Taitertots]

119. Why not just say "let them eat cake"? n/t

[xchrom]

121. sigh. nt

[xchrom]

122. hiccup. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

124. So finally he's a Firece Advocate, but it is advocacy for exporting

more American jobs. Advocacy for India. What a guy.

[northernlights]

127. Homelessness and hunger fears are outdated, unwarranted...

Consider the superior lifestyle of living under a bridge. The fresh air. The exercise as you walk to and from whereever it is you go.

As far as hunger, what better way to fight the obesity epidemic than to deny the poor excess food?

Keep it up Obama. Just keep it the fuck up.

[OlympicBrian]

129. IBM alone has 75,000 employees in India...Obama claims his trip created 50,000 US...

During his trip, is Obama cutting deals to allow more offshoring?

IBM has hired around 75,000 Indian workers since 1992. The Indian IBM page also says "IBM stopped giving its headcount numbers" (hmm, trying to hide something?)

http://dqindia.ciol.com/content/dqtop20_10/CompanyRanking/2010/110072309.asp

Those 75,000 jobs--or a good fraction of them--could be still in the US.

I also heard some suspicious talk in Obama's speech about "opening more markets" and it sounded like opening more of ours to offshoring. Did anyone else catch that?

[Arkana]

134. I have to disagree, especially if you're in IT.

Those jobs ARE being outsourced because corporations would rather pay some dude in Bangalore to answer phones for 20 cents an hour than pay an American 15 bucks an hour.

[laughingliberal]

140. Well, the answer's obvious. If we want jobs, we should work for 20 cents an hour, too.

:sarcasm:

[OlympicBrian]

136. Offshoring allows corporate executives to hog more profits

"IT leaders in India say outsourcing does not hurt American companies but makes them more efficient and helps the U.S. economy by freeing up money for innovation and investments."

No, it allows corporations and fat-cat CEOs to hog a greater percent share of national income...

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/net/page21.pdf

Notice in the above graph the ever-widening gap between (rising) percent share of national income afforded to corporate profits and (shrinking) percent share afforded to compensation. There is a both a long- and short- term trend.

Likewise, employment and benefits costs plummet as you hire Indians over Americans:

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=EC_ectbrief

And the ultra-rich, and corporations have the audacity to ask for tax breaks?