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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:37 PM
Original message
Obama primary challenge? Nearly half of Dems want 2012 fight.
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 05:42 PM by Karmadillo
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/30/obama-primary-...

WASHINGTON Democratic voters are closely divided over whether President Barack Obama should be challenged within the party for a second term in 2012, an Associated Press-Knowledge Networks Poll finds.

That glum assessment carries over into the nation at large, which is similarly divided over whether Obama should be a one-term president.

A real Democratic challenge to Obama seems unlikely at this stage and his re-election bid is a long way off. But the findings underscore how disenchanted his party has grown heading into the congressional elections Tuesday.

The AP-KN poll has tracked a group of people and their views since the beginning of the 2008 presidential campaign. Among all 2008 voters, 51 percent say he deserves to be defeated in November 2012 while 47 percent support his re-election essentially a tie.

Among Democrats, 47 percent say Obama should be challenged for the 2012 nomination and 51 percent say he should not be opposed. Those favoring a contest include most who backed Hillary Rodham Clinton's unsuccessful faceoff against Obama for the 2008 nomination. The poll did not ask if Democrats would support particular challengers.

more...
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Really who is pushing that drivel......PUMAS
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Bingo
damn, let it go people...imagine if the Gore faction had kept that up during Clintons eight years.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. +1
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
61. The anti-Clinton faction loves the conspiracy though n/t
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Not all of them.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Isn't it apparent?
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. I have never backed Hillary a day in my life.
:hi:

I do want, and will support a president, who at least works to legislate at least one of my ideals. If Obama grows a spine and starts doing that, he'll have my vote. If he doesn't and continues this route... I will hope mightily for another Democratic option.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. PUMA = Party Unity My Ass
:shrug:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. PUMA fucking losers of the worst kind
Failures and idiots.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Non-whiny Hillary supporters. Like me.
n/t
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. The likes of you made Reagan Pres. n/t
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
76. Huh? I'll gladly vote for Obama.
I'd rather vote for Clinton.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:50 PM
Original message
Do the arguments against Obama sound like people who tow the Clinton line?
Clinton is SoS to Obama. This has nothing to do with Clinton.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
39. Indeed
I supported Obama because I figured Hillary would be the corporate sell-out
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. I like the idea of a challenge. Not because I want to vote for someone else,
but because I saw how the protracted primary season helped Democrats in 08 in terms of clarifying the stances, making the candidates better, getting voters registered, etc. Someone I saw on MSNBC this week suggested that if Feingold loses Tuesday, he might decide to mount a campaign. I'd like to see that: a campaign from a good government liberal who pushes the President. I think it'd be good in terms of the general election in 2012, among other things.

However, I doubt that only 47% support his reelection. That flies in the face of everything I have seen (i.e., his support among Democrats at ~80%)
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Not when it is an incumbent POTUS. Nomination challenges make them lose - happened to Carter and
Poppy Bush.

It is not the same as an open seat. It is a recipe for disaster.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. You may be right. I like to think both would rise to the challenge
and a campaign from someone like Feingold would end up making Obama look more moderate and more appealing to independents, especially when compared to the crowd the republicons are going to be running in 2012. The problem with the Carter-Kennedy thing, from what I have heard (I don't remember it) is that it became incredibly acrimonious; I have faith that Pres Obama and Russ have enough respect for each other--and for their differences--that it wouldn't get personal and could, instead, energize Democratic voters.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. It divides the party and the other side wins. It would be a disaster.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. Neither Poppy nor Carter lost because of their primary challenges.
:eyes:

Nice try though. I'm sure if the talk gets more serious we'll be hearing that scare tactic and others a lot more often.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. If Feingold does want to run
I'd be behind him in a nano second. He is what we need.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. He won't even win reelection in his own state...
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 05:54 PM by ingac70
no way he'd get any where running for POTUS.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
74. We'll have to see what the next year brings
Hopefully Obama will make some changes.If he doesn't and people see just what they elected this time (if they actually do vote for these nuts) it might be his time.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. It would be nice to have an anti-war liberal run against him.
One that would vow to end Obama's "necessary" war in Afghanistan.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. 'Vows' don't work; don't you get it?
GOVERNING is DIFFICULT!
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. By 2012, anti-war will be a moot point.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
72. As far as this administration is concerned it's a moot point now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You'll love a Republican President in 2013. I'm sure they will be much more supportive of your
causes.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Your fantasies get the better of you. Nt
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Just going with your rhetoric.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Wow. Ok. nt
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Then enjoy....
getting burned at the stake under Pres. Caribou Barbie.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. you shouldn't laugh
guffaws will do nicely

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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. you are mistaking disgust for anguish
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. I'm old enough to know the difference. Nt
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. No Sale. nt
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Fuck that
yup

:thumbsdown:
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. It won't happen so stop dreaming. Obama will be the democratic nominee and will win.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. Obama will be the Democratic nominee and will lose in a blowout. (NT)
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
70. Obama won't be the nominee.
Because at this point, he couldn't get elected if he bought every American a brand new Corvette for the holidays this year. And next year.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Have you been watching a lot of Fox News?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Who do they want? And is that person capable of being more than a sound bite?
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 05:55 PM by stray cat
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. No chance, of course.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. NEARLY half wanted Hill last time
The Pumas will never die
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. Skeptical of polls being pushed by the Associated Press
Gallup has Obama job approval pretty high with liberal and moderate Dems.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. and of the 47% who want a fight, there are ~135 candidates
with ~1/3 of a percent support each


good luck with that
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Fools, lets not be.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. If only Elizabeth Warren, but highly unlikely from any strong challenger.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is what pisses me off about politics today
In 3 days we are going to have an election, no one knows how that will pan out, NO ONE!!

And already we are wondering if someone is going to run against Obama. Elections never stop it seems, before we are done with one we are already campaigning for another. No wonder we have corrupt government in this country, they always have to have a war chest and the money people have no problem filling them.

I predict the dems will have 100 Senators, 435 house members. Who is going to run against Obama??

Lets get through this election first. See how things shake out, see if Obama can really lead this country.
The House and Senate may end up with all the crazies that we dread, the country may finally see that there is no hope for them unless they get behind real politicians that care about them.

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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. Keep dreaming...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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sally cat Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
40. "Among Democrats, 47 percent say Obama should be challenged" I don't believe that for a moment.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Agree .... total BS.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Gallup; Obama Job Approval among Democrats = 81% EIGHTY-ONE PERCENT.
Something is way off in AP poll.

Oct 10-24
Obama Approval Rating

DEM 81%

LIBERAL DEM 87%
Moderate DEM 79%
CONSERVATIVE DEM 72%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval...
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Wait...what? Is this the Gallup that we like, or the one that we don't?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Just pointing out that is is WAY different than this nutty poll the AP is pushing.
Associated Press seems to have polled some sort of unrepresentative group.

P.S. NOTE on that Thread about gallup: Your link is about "Likely Voter Model" - Obama approval polls does not use that model.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I see... so it's the one that we like.
Thanks for clearing that up. :hi:
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Read my reply again. This poll doesn't use the "Likely Voter Module"
The "Likely Voter Module" is used on Election Polling

This isn't an election poll, it is a Job Approval Poll.


Election Poll = Apples

Job Approval Poll = Oranges

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. It's like Fox polls. When Fox shows a decent approval for Obama,
the real number is probably higher. And whenever Fox polls showed Bush with lower approval ratings, chances are the real numbers were lower.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. Wouldn't surprise me if the Obama Admin is putting this out themselves
Not seeing many indications Obama's planning to run for a 2nd term

Articles like these could just be fishing...
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. Of course now I see United we win, Divided we fail....Who would want that?....
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Well, there you have it, folks ...
"The AP-KN poll has tracked a group of people and their views since the beginning of the 2008 presidential campaign."

One simply cannot argue with the accuracy of a "poll" this scientific, this rich in detail as to who was polled and when, this fleshed-out with the facts of the data collection process used.

A group of people ... :rofl:

The only people who give any credence to this kind of crapola are those who think an "unidentified source" is as reliable as it gets, and know what's what because their neighbour's butcher's nephew's second cousin (twice removed) said so.

Really - a group of people :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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TeaBagsAreForCups Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. Absolutely mandated...
... and even if such a venture should result in failure for the heroic individual(s) who elect such a mission, at least it will put our "progressive" President on distinct notice that he better grow a hefty set of balls and cease playing Switzerland from the start of every god-damn political negotiation. He must finally realize and accept that he's a fucking Democrat and that he is not a mediator, minister, or Captain Kangaroo, loved by all.

Without equivocation, President Obama and his feckless and timid political strategy and its execution is precisely the reason that we sit at the eve of an epic legislative catastrophe that may well deliver the second branch of the government into the hands and effective control of the most corrupt and vile criminal organization of the modern era and in our body politic, the GOP.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Reality Check; Obama Job Approval. Lib Dem 87% | Moderate Dem 79% | Conserv Dem 72%
Gallup Oct 18-24

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval...

I don't know who AP is polling, but it does not appear to be representative.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. I have to ask you this then too... Aren't we supposed to not trust Gallup anymore??????
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. That thread questions "Likely Voter Model". Obama Job Approval does not use the Likely Voter Model
I agree that the Likely Voter Model is off somehow.

But this poll does not use the Likely Voter Model.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
73. Don't trust any polling group that attempts to draw conclusions from self labelling
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 08:29 PM by depakid
Especially Gallup, which quite knowingly uses this method to attempt to influence public opinion, not reflect it.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. Fools. It is a recipe for unmitigated disaster.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
58. This is the modus operandi for the dems. Shoot yourself in the foot.
I want to believe that repukes are behind this stupid idea, but I can't give them that much credit. Our own party is it's worst enemy.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. Recommend
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
63. Only surveyed about 570 Ds nationwide, about 11 per state
Right before the 2010 midterms is an odd time to be polling folk on the 2012 primaries

You can get a summary here: http://surveys.ap.org /
37% of respondents were from the South

How the poll was conducted
The Associated Press
... This study included 1,254 adults on Sept. 17 to Oct. 7 were originally part of a random sample of Americans surveyed up to 11 times throughout the 2008 campaign ... Interviews were conducted online. The original sample was drawn from a panel of respondents Knowledge Networks recruited via random sampling of landline telephone households with listed and unlisted numbers. The company provides Web access to panel recruits who don't already have it ... http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/30/2371199/how-the-po...
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
66. Out of Iraqistan, Public Option, Out of Slave Trade agreements, and he's unstoppable!
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. I'm really not a voter worshiper.
Voters are the bosses in a democratic system, and a lot of them are just plain lousy bosses. They're fickleness, diffidence, irascibility, and ignorance bring us all down. I really haven't seen a president or candidate in my lifetime who could compare with Obama. Therefore, I have no trouble at all in blaming the few Dem voters expressing "disenchantment" for their own problems. I think any Dem who grumbles about Obama should have the decency to name an alternative or shut up. That never happens, of course.

I notice in Positive Psychology that there is this "grass is greener" idea. People are much happier in general if they don't think they have alternatives to their situation, be it their spouses, their jobs, their living conditions, etc. They are unhappy in their situation if they think there is an alternative. I think that what we have with the few (under 10% based on polling) unhappy Dems is a clear example of this principle. Many are so egotistical and, possibly, immature that they don't recognize any responsibility on their part to show loyalty to the leaders we have and to sacrifice for the team as a whole.

Some grasp at an imaginary alternative leadership scenario in their heads, filled with impossible-to-elect people doing impossible-to-achieve things. Others may not even go that far, instead merely assuming that their own inner whims must have some way to achieve satisfaction, even if they haven't thought at all about what that way might be in reality. Naturally these people feel unhappy. Their lazy thinking and/or inability to maintain team loyalty despite frustration makes them fair weather friends, unhappy company, and unreliable partners.

That's not just a put down. That's a sad fact. These folks are high maintenance. They don't realize a very simple fact: You have to give a great deal of loyalty and trust to your team or you are useless to it. It's hard to be angry with people who don't understand this, though, because they are basically blind. They have no idea they are wrong. They should think about it.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:53 PM
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68. I'd support that. If I weren't pretty convinced it won't be necessary. nt
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:44 PM
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75. The ABSOLUTE worst thing we could do....
...is have a bruising presidential primary. A contested primary will weaken whoever ultimately gets the nomination. Barring something totally unforeseen, we need to quickly unite behind President Obama (and let the Republicans tear each other apart for a change).
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