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France Banned Bayer Pesticide Imidacloprid in 2000 for wiping out BEES, 70% of Honey harvest!!

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:49 PM
Original message
France Banned Bayer Pesticide Imidacloprid in 2000 for wiping out BEES, 70% of Honey harvest!!
Edited on Sat May-19-07 10:56 PM by Dems Will Win

Parisian Beekeepers Protesting Bayer's Gaucho Pesticide Years Ago!

This appears to be the reason. Blame Bayer. Apparently the pesticide accumulates in the soil, so it just gets worse and worse. It's used to coat seeds as well being applied directly to fields of sunflowers and other crops.

M. Bonmatin (CNRS Orlans) analysed in year N. the soils supporting a non-treated GAUCHO crop, knowing that they during the two previous years, i.e. N -1 and N -1 plus N -2 had been treated with GAUCHO. They contained on average Imidacloprid at 4.8 and 8.6 ppb. respectively, which does not invite for the exclusion of a phenomenon of accumulation, seeing that there is nearly a factor of 2 between these values. Also one is able to reasonably imagine that the soils with three years previous GAUCHO treatment (N -1, N -2 and N -3) would contain on average 10 ppb. Imidaclopride. Accepting that Imidacloprid, having very low mobility in soil and that it rests in the upper 30cm soil horizon, one may calculate that with an average charge of 10 ppb. it is equivalent to 50 grammes of Imidacloprid/hectare, and therefore by implication equivalent to a treatment of GAUCHO on sunflowers!!

Considering that:

Imidacloprid has a negative effect on individual bee behaviour, at 1.5 ppb when foraging
between 6 and 12 ppb. when relating to criteria allied with olfactory memory and recruitment
When relating to sub-chronic toxicity and daily doses of 4.5 picog.,

THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE SURVIVAL OF THE HARVESTING BEES.


Due to sub-lethal effects of certain metabolites of Imidacloprid to be more toxic than the original molecule

Due to Imidacloprid being available through nectar and/or pollen of crops treated with GAUCHO at a level of up to 5ppb

As the level of accumulated residual Imidacloprid from 3 previously GAUCHO treated crops (equivalent to that delivered by a sowing of GAUCHO treated sunflower seed)

That sunflowers and maize are particularly capable at absorbing residual Imidacloprid


IT IS EVIDENT THAT DURING THE FLOWERING PERIOD OF GAUCHO TREATED SUNFLOWER AND MAIZE AS WELL AS ALL CROPS WITH APICAL INTEREST CONTAMINATED BY PREVIOUS GAUCHO TREATMENTS - FORAGING BEES ARE EFFECTIVELY EXPOSED TO DOSES OF IMIDACLOPRID WHICH IN LABORATORIES HAVE REVEALED A NEGATIVE IMPACT.

In the open countryside, this negative impact is verified by observation - already at least on the sunflower honey flow:

Dr. M.E. Colin ( INRA Avignon ) :

Having analysed video documentation obtained from sunflowers growing in agricultural condition during 1998 and 1999, Dr. Colin has been able to conclude that foraging by bees on sunflowers treated or contaminated with GAUCHO, takes place with less efficiency and with a behavioural comportment very different to that compared with those foraging sunflowers growing in Organic conditions and on soils that have never received any GAUCHO treatment.


The Beekeepers:

Since 1994 for some, from 1995 or '96 for others, depending on the region, they have witnessed exploitation problems concerning the bees on the sunflower nectar flow: problems of acute hive depopulation and of aberrant behaviour patterns, being accentuated year on year. For them, there is no longer any doubt that these phenomena are linked to the crop flowering period. It requires only 3 or 4 days from the start of the sunflower flowering period to initiate the problems - this taking place at the beginning of July or 15 days later in the case of 1998. It is the same and unique itinerary every year - and only when the hives are in the areas of crops treated with GAUCHO. Those hives moved before hand to other areas for such nectar flows produced by sweet chestnut trees, lavender, pine and wild blossom escape totally the fore-mentioned phenomena. The year that GAUCHO is introduced into an area the troubles appear for the first time. The phenomena are: Destabilising for the bee colony to the point that it becomes impossible to undertake all normal activities associated with the honey flow


The regularity and levels of honey harvests from the sunflowers have continually become worse as compared to the 1995-'96 levels, with year 2000 showing only 30 to 40% of the traditional harvest levels. (This is about the SAME PERCENTAGE we are seeing here in the US today - DWW)


The above assessment imposes that a definitive withdrawal of all uses of the molecule Imidacloprid is put into place immediately. We do not imagine that the studies undertaken by BAYER (1995-2000) - certainly judge and jury in the affair - are able to be far from the fore-mentioned contributions made by the Public Researchers of France. If by bad luck it were not the case, it would be a terrible snub for the scientific community; at least they would not have been contaminated by other considerations of another order.

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/gaucho/manifestat...


The commission concluded that it had no serious indicators suggesting Imidacloprid might be dangerous to bees. However, the commission suggested a risk could exist with seed-treated corn pollen.

Gerard Eyries, marketing manager for Bayer's agricultural division in France, was cited saying studies confirmed that Imidacloprid left a small residue in nectar and pollen, but there was no evidence of a link with the drop in France's bee population, adding, "It is impossible to have zero residue. What is important is to know whether the very tiny quantities which have been found have a negative effect on bees." He also added that the product was sold in 70 countries with no reported side effects.

Other studies indicated that concentrations were especially high when the plant is young. These would often be of

10 to 20 ppb in upper leaves
100 to 200 ppb in other leaves
less than 1.5 ppb in nectar
2 to 3 ppb in pollen
Bayer then agreed that the insecticide may cause disorientation of bees at levels above 20 parts per billion of the active ingredient. Recent studies by researchers at the Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique (INRA) suggest that bee behaviour is affected at levels between 3-16 ppb or possibly even 0.5 ppb.



Current situation of bees' decline

In 2001, Bayer also brought a judicial case against Maurice Mary, one of the leaders of the French association of beekeepers for disparagement of the chemical Imidacloprid. The action was dismissed by the judge in May 2003.

In 2003, agricultural Minister Jean Glavany again extended the suspension of the use of Imidacloprid on sunflower seeds.

In spite of a 4 year ban already on sunflower seeds treatment, a significant drop in bee individuals is still observed. Beekeepers were cited as saying the measure was insufficient, as studies found that Imidacloprid left a residue which meant that even after two years, plants sowed on the same spot as the crop originally treated contained traces of the product.

Some also suggest that the bee colony losses could also be due to the use of imidacloprid on corn as well, or by the replacement of it by another systemic insecticide called Fipronil. Indeed in May 2003, the DGAL (Direction Gnrale de l'Alimentation du ministre de l'Agriculture ) indicated death of bees observed in the south of the country had been caused by acute toxicity by Fipronil (as the active chemical in the systemic insecticide called Regent), while it was recognised Imidacloprid had no responsibility in the bees death. Some national field studies are currently under way (2003) to assert the responsibility of Imidacloprid.

A similar battle is occurring in Nova Scotia, where beekeepers are accusing Imidacloprid used on potatoes for massive losses of bees needed for blueberry pollination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_be...


Imidacloprid is found in a variety of commercial insecticides. The products Admire, Condifor, Gaucho, Premier, Premise, Provado, and Marathon all contain imidacloprid as the active ingredient.

Please remember to recommend if you want to get the word out on this important issue!

And drop Bayer a line:

Bayer Agricultural Products
P. O. Box 4913
Kansas City, MO 64120


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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is an important piece of info
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. I saw the news bimbos on CNN exclaiming happily "And where have all the bees gone?"
Edited on Sat May-19-07 11:03 PM by Dems Will Win
as if they were announcing the next baby panda being born!

What idiots!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Why, they are all just on little bee-vacations..off to the land of Milk & Honey
wearing their little bee hats & bee-bikinis> :eyes:

The bimbettes make me wanna puke.. especially the way they "report" on the two whales.. like they are "lost"

What really happened.. a boat propeller injured the Mom & her baby, and she tried to get to some safety so predators would not eat her baby :cry: The bimbettes are overjoyed that we have "named' them.. whoopee.. :puke:
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. (i just gotta tell ya about that yoke....it creeps me out to such a degree
i find it difficult to read your posts--and i always read your posts. so i am asking you...BEGGING YOU...to reconsider using that yoke in your posts. i've never asked this of anyone before, but there is just something about it that i find rather disturbing....maybe it's because i've been sick lately and i've noticed i'm more sensitive to things. i don't know. anyway, please don't take offense, don't be mad. you're yoke really did make an impact on me. but i'd like to be able to read your posts without skipping over them just to avoid the egg.)
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Using Firefox?
Right click the yolk and choose Block Images From (URL).
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. It is disturbing.
It's funny as hell, but it's also disturbing.
I changed my sigline a while back - it hadn't occurred to me how it might bother people.
A number of people said they liked it and thought it was funny.
But rather than turn off some people to DU, I decided to change my sigline.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Hah!!.. you are in luck..I change them every week, and it's time for eggy
to go :) :)
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. oh, thank you! much relief here! (smile) n/t
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I mean really
No more bees means no more Honey Nut Cheerios, which is sad, but why the fuss?

They've probably thrown out all their winter clothes and gotten bikini waxes earlier this year, because as serious journalists they know global warming is a serious issue. And it is. For real.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Off to the greatest page with you.
We are murdering the planet and all its inhabitants, including ourselves.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Mechanist Scientists, Corrupted by $$, Happily Ignore the Law of Unintended Consequences
Otherewise known by the saying:

"It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!"
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. Fool with. nt
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Now this sounds like a plausible suspect.
Hard science is my preferred method for getting answers for things like this. We may have a "winner" here, so to speak, though plenty of good people are losers as a result.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Here is more science:
A team of scientist led by the National Institute of Beekeeping in Bologna, Italy, found that pollen obtained from seeds dressed with imidacloprid contains significant levels of the insesticide, and suggested that the polluted pollen was one of the main causes of honeybee colony collapse <4>. Analysis of maize and sunflower crops originating from seeds dressed with imidacloprid indicated that large amounts of the insecticide will be carried back to honey bee colonies <5>. Sub-lethal doses of imidacloprid in sucrose solution affected homing and foraging activity of honeybees. Bees fed with 500 or 1 000 ppb (parts per billion) of the insecticide in sucrose solutions failed to return to the hive and disappeared altogether, while bees that had imbibed 100 ppb solutions were delayed for 24 h compared with controls <6>. Imidacloprid in sucrose solution fed to the bees in the laboratory impaired their communication for a few hours <7>. Sub-lethal doses of imidacloprid in laboratory and field experiment decreased flight activity and olfactory discrimination, and olfactory learning performance was impaired <8>.

Bayer corporation scientists reported that neither honeybees exposed to imidacloprid in sunflower seeds dressed with the insecticide <9> nor maize seeds dressed with the insecticide or released from the seeds during planting <10> were detrimental to honeybees. The Bayer studies did not deal with sub-lethal behaviour of intoxicated bees. An independent study found that imidacloprid was released to the environment from treated maize seeds during seed planting <11>. Bayer eco-toxicologists directed harsh criticisms at reports showing lethal or sub-lethal toxic effects of imidicloprid seed dressing and concluded that imidacloprid does not pose any significant risk to honeybees in the field <12>, without, however, disproving the findings. It is simply yet another case of the anti-precaution principle being applied <13> (Use and Abuse of the Precautionary Principle, ISIS News 6)

Turning to GM crops such as maize, canola, cotton and soybean it is clear that all of these GM crops, with or without Bt genes, use seeds most of which are coated with neonicotinoid pesticides highly toxic to honey bees. For example, Herculex maize with Bt genes to control rootworm, like Yieldgard corn borer resistant maize, is planted with seeds dressed with a neonicotinoid insecticide and a fungicide. Furthermore, the GM planting requires setting aside plots of non-GM maize making up 20 percent of the planted area as a refuge to discourage the evolution of resistant insects. But the refuge is sprayed with neonicotinoid pesticide to protect its yield <14>, and is more like a death camp for insects. Monsantos US Patent 6,660,690 provides for coating GM seeds with chemical pesticides

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoids
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Horrifying. It sounds like a plan by aliens to depopulate this planet.
It could be the sequel to "TO SERVE MAN". After they have lost their taste for man, they simply destroy the population.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Wasn't there on documentary on how the Republicans were actually disguised evil aliens
and that special sunglasses could reveal their true image?

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. They have stopped the showing of it...as they have many shows that tell the truth.
:)
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. They Live!
!
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. it doesn't seem to be depopulation per se: they're viciously against
any actual birth control or environmental concern--it's THROUGHPUT they seem to be after, like they're in a race to see how many dead souls they can get on Satan's bar tabs: George and Dick split 800,000+ Iraqis, Jim Baker Bolivians and Indians, etc., etc.
Think a crematory attached to a maternity ward, with a credit-card reader in both rooms
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. Wow! Sounds like their perfect world. CorporatocracyFundamental Religion
Gee...sounds alot like Hitler's dreams.
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pushycat Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. To Serve Man - ha! Excellent read eom
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. So it doesn't take the bees dropping dead per se to kill colonies
and dropping dead is precisely what Bayer studied and Bayer stopped its studies at that point, and the chips fell where they may.

As I said, it's a strong theory. Bayer's obviously disputing it. Hopefully this will be cleared up scientifically and without any doubt in the near future. Hopefully.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Better living through chemicals, .........Bayer, (from Wikipedia,)
Bayer

(snip) (about half way down the page)
As part of the reparations after World War I, Bayer had its assets, including rights to its name and trademarks, confiscated in the United States, Canada, and several other countries. In the United States and Canada, Bayer's assets and trademarks were acquired by Sterling Drug, a predecessor of Sterling Winthrop.

Bayer became part of IG Farben, a conglomerate of German chemical industries which formed the financial core of the Nazi regime. IG Farben owned 42.5% of the company that manufactured Zyklon B, a chemical used in the gas chambers of Auschwitz, and was the only German company to operate its own concentration camp. When the Allies split IG Farben after World War II for involvement in several Nazi war crimes, Bayer reappeared as an individual business. Bayer executive Fritz ter Meer, sentenced to seven years in prison by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, was made head of the supervisory board of Bayer in 1956, after his release. http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/01/27a.php

In 1978, Bayer purchased Miles Laboratories and its subsidiaries Miles Canada and Cutter Laboratories (along with a product line including Alka-Seltzer, Flintstones Vitamins and One-A-Day Vitamins, and Cutter insect repellent). In 1994, Bayer AG purchased Sterling Winthrop's over the counter drug business from SmithKline Beecham and merged it with Miles Laboratories, thereby reacquiring the U.S. trademark rights to "Bayer" and the Bayer cross.
(snip)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thanks for this.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. Couldn't get this little factoid (Bayer / Zyklon) out of my head as
Edited on Sun May-20-07 11:58 AM by Morgana LaFey
I was reading the OP. Thanks for dragging it out there for us. Wiping populations out seems to be in their blood, doesn't it?

I wonder if the US Army in Germany still uses the IGFarben building in Frankfurt as its V Corps (or whatever it is these days) headquarters?

The WORLD needs to put this company permanently out of business, for CONTINUING crimes against humanity.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Bayer's "Advantage" flea control for pets also uses imidacloprid. n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. The introduction of imidocloprid (Advantage) and fipronil (Frontline)
for flea control in pets about 12 years ago was seen as a major medical breakthrough, and has revolutionized external parasite control in pets. We LOVE the stuff. The days of animals DYING OF FLEA ANEMIA or sickened by diseases spread by the accursed things have gone by the wayside, and NONE of us misses them.

But several years ago I started to wonder how long this stuff would persist in the environment, and I asked myself out loud many times if it could eventually prove to be the next DDT. I hope I'm just being paranoid.

It may be, if it is the underlying cause of CCD, that it could still be safely used in tiny amounts on pets, but banned from agricultural use. Though if that happened, Bayer would probably cease manufacture due to drastically decreased demand. They probably make WAAAAYYYY more money from its ag use than pet use. If I HAD to stop using it I obviously would. We have selamectin (Revolution), which is a pharmaceutical and absorbed systemically, rather than a stable pesticide. It is not in the same class with imidocloprid and fipronil for flea control effectiveness, however - it acts more slowly and therefore is not useful in animals allergic to flea saliva - fleas have to bite in order to ingest the stuff.

I'm looking forward (with trepidation)to some REAL research on this from the entomological and agricultural community in the US. I smell a PhD for the clever person who figures it out.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. off on a tangent here...my cat doesn't get fleas anymore
she goes outdoors, although mostly staying on a raised deck, but she wanders in the grass occasionally.

One year I used frontline on her. Then I ran out and stopped, because the flea problem was gone and I hate the idea of putting pesticides on my cat if I don't have to.

The fleas haven't come back in two years or so. That's great but I'm just wondering if it's because she only wanders in a maintained suburban neighborhood...and I think about what those lawns are probably "maintained" with...and I wonder.

Maybe this year they'll be back and I'll have to buy frontline again. I don't know if I'll be unhappy if that happens...it just seems like she should be picking up fleas. :shrug:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Maybe you keep her nice and healthy. Parasites tend to pick on the weaker ones.
I have not used a flea control chemical for over 10 years. I concentrate on good nutrition to keep my pets healthy and I give them garlic and brewers yeast.
There are many other non-chemical flea and tick control products.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Ah, that may be it. She was a rescue, and not very healthy at first
so maybe that's why she got fleas before; but she is a picture of glowing kitty health now!

I don't give my cats anything special though, beyond Purina dry food and some "hairball control" treats. My parents swore by Purina for all their pets and now after all the food recalls I am glad I still use it.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
61. It probably just means all your neighbors are doing good flea control
with THEIR pets. So they haven't spread back to your yard yet.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. thanks for the info
our luck, the FDA has probably approved Imidacloprid in bottled drinking water...sigh.

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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. If this turns out to have anything to do with CCD
it might explain this peculiarity too:
The scientists are also surprised that bees and other insects usually leave the abandoned hives untouched. Nearby bee populations or parasites would normally raid the honey and pollen stores of colonies that have died for other reasons, such as excessive winter cold. "This suggests that there is something toxic in the colony itself which is repelling them," says Cox-Foster.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,473166...


Couple the dosing with feeding them pollen from bt corn, which is engineered to produce a low-level toxin for pest resistance, and the bees could be getting hit with a poisonous double whammy. Not to mention the sugar syrups used to replace harvested honey, the induced gigantism from larger artificial hive cells, the stress of transport, the antibiotic and pesticide dousings, and on and on...
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Double yup
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
53. Can you imagine the class action lawsuit that may follow?
How much do you sue for when the damages are potentially the collapse of the western world's food supply?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R. (nt)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Google "Imidacloprid USDA"
It's everywhere.


BTW, I haven't seen one ant this year. Usually they come in through the window next to me, and into the kitchen.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. K & R
good info!
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
25. well, thank god it's not the cell phones! if that were the case i think
people would rather let humankind end as we know it rather than give up the blablabla they obsessively do on their fucking phones.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. K & R. WHEN in the hell is the U.S. going to do something about this??
There is a HUGE Bayer plant about 30 miles from me as the crow flies. They're putting out more junk than you can shake a stick at.

:kick:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. very important finding! funny how things take so long to pop up
but thank you to the OP. this could very well BEE the problem...

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kicking for the early risers.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks.
Scary what corporate farming keeps doing to us
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
33. The real dangers of a controlled media. . WRIT LARGE!
If there was any vestige of a free mass media in this country, we would have heard about this before. We are living in a "do it yourself" country, aren't we?
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
34. I went pesticide-free in my garden 8 Years ago.
I plant flowers that act as nurse crops for predatory insects until they can find their prey in quantities to survive.

A couple of Years ago a hive of wild honeybees established itself nearby and have since been quite content to spend part of their day pollinating my vegetables and flowers.

Even the normally troublesome Colorado Potato Beetle has failed to gain a foothold. Adults show up on my potatoes on schedule but are gone in a couple of days and their eggs are quickly consumed by the colony of predatory stink bugs that have made themselves at home here.

Slugs used to be a problem but between the ground beetles and the family of garter snakes, they have become a mild problem.

Pesticides kill beneficial insects as well and when they're gone, there is no choice but to use pesticides.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Pesticides kill insect predators much faster than the targeted insects
They get an accumulation of the pesticide because most of the chemicals are not easily expelled from their metabolism and end up concentrating on the predator which cannot expel the chemicals any easier.

On the macro, just like any other system where a few specialists are needed to keep balance, keep them specialist from doing their job and the whole system goes haywire. It's no wonder why this thing like the Gonzo run inept justice department is just so critical
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Field of Dreams
Build it and they will come.


Provide a good environment and the beneficial insects will come.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Self-delete-wrong spot. Sorry.
Edited on Sun May-20-07 09:15 AM by dicksteele
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. I wonder when the MEDIA was planning to tell us about this? recommended
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Androgenous Creeper 360 was going to tell us.
Edited on Sun May-20-07 02:25 PM by Kutjara
The guide on my DVR said he was going to do a two hour "investigation" into CCD last week. I made an exception to my policy of ignoring the noisome little creep and recorded the show, hoping against hope that an actual fact might somehow accidently creep through the pompous preening and airhead blather. In the event, however, it never aired. Jerry Falwell died, so AC360 became a two hour praisathon for his life instead - while still running the ticker saying it was about the bee problem. I was getting a headache trying to work out whether AC was subliminally blaming Jerry Falwell for CCD or not, so I went out and got drunk.

Of course fawning over the death of a superannuated theofascist is far more important than reporting on the possible extinction of humankind. That just goes without saying.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
40. Wow, it is amazing this was not brought up before
Obviously Bayer is a major advertiser on all the big "news" networks so none of them wanted to bring these facts out.

This is why sites like DU are so important, we are not bound to any big corporations and we can have information like this on our site without worrying about Bayer pulling revenue away from us.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Bloggers Unite! We need to start a SAVE THE BEES MOVEMENT
and protest outside the DEpt of Agriculture like the FRENCH DID!
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Lord Balto Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. It turns out organic hives have not suffered
So it's obviously chemically related, whether this particular molecule or some other.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
41. Kicked, recommended & bookmarked!
:kick:

Nice work, Dems Will Win!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
49. Wanna bet the bee story drops off the corporate media radar and soon?
Can't go hurting the corporate profits of Bayer by reporting the truth now can they? :puke:
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
54. Makes one wonder....is this all being done on purpose?
:tinfoilhat:

(major tinfoil hat warning...I'm only half serious here...)

If the global elite want there to be a human die off, this might me a good way to start one...

:tinfoilhat:
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. It's actually the old decrepit and corrupt paradigm -
The mechanistic paradigm, also known as the Newtonian paradigm, assumes that things in the environment around humans are more like machines than like life. It was more common in the 19th century. This is a set of loosely related beliefs that affects all sciences:

In physics it presents atoms as made of particles in preference to say the wave theory of light. In fact, both the particle and wave view are required to explain everything light does, but are rarely presented as equals. Many physics students graduate fully understanding the hydrogen bomb but having no clear idea of how musical instruments work.

In astrophysics it assumes that the universe is like clockwork and works on its own without our choice making any difference - this fits relativity but is not easy to combine with quantum mechanics.

In cosmology it accepts models of our universe more easily if reject the continuous creation of matter, energy or any new "other universes".

In chemistry it assumes that molecules are like building blocks, and have no unpredictable or strange and unique effects when combined. This is the basic assumption of mechanosynthesis which some scientists think will create a molecular assembler.

In biology it assumes that everything about life - all of biochemistry - is predictable from chemistry and physics.

Believers tend to regard ecology and psychology as "less scientific" than physics, chemistry and biology.

Believers may reject ideas like psychoneuroimmunology, Gaia philosophy or Fecund universes for no scientific reason, simply because these theories assume "higher level phenomena" sometimes drive lower levels.

Greedy Reductionism may be more likely among believers in mechanistic ideas. For instance, they may want to always see things as made of smaller, even invisible, parts that no one can see or prove is real - like in string theory.

For this reason, when they work in psychology, they may prefer theories like behaviorism that deny free will and try to explain human behaviour as a function of biology.

The philosophy of mathematics of most believers is a form of Platonism. This assumes there is a perfect or ideal form that theories only approximate. This lets them explain inaccuracies in mechanistic theories as being due to an imperfection in human ability to reason, instead of imperfections in math itself.

Believers in this paradigm sometimes say that those who do not believe in it are following a cognitive paradigm - but almost no one uses this term, since it is redundant - cognitive science is already accepted as the most basic idea in the philosophy of science. But mechanists reject some of the ideas of cognitive scientists, like cognitive science of mathematics.

Mechanistic thinking also assumes that philosophy of perception is much less important than cognitive scientists say it is - that humans and their beliefs and equipment do not generally add a lot of bias to a scientific theory. Thomas Kuhn said otherwise, that these things matter, and that the major assumptions of science, can shift drastically. This he called a paradigm shift. The shift from mechanistic to cognitive paradigm is an example of this. Later he used other words to describe the assumptions and beliefs, like mind-set, but the word "paradigm" is still used. Some say it is much over-used.

Economics is often said to "suffer from" assumptions of the mechanistic paradigm. Sometimes those who believe in neoclassical economics and also in the mechanistic paradigm say they "seek to unify physics and economics," as if people and particles behaved as two examples of the same kind of thing.

Technology is often easier to make if people accept a mechanistic paradigm - but it may be harder to say why it does not work, if one believes in these ideas. For instance, creating diagnostic trees might be easier if one works from experience, not from an idea of how a technology should or must work.

A controversial idea is that mechanistic ideas are just an older idea called scholasticism, with more mathematics. Both tried to work from what should or must be, instead of what experiment seemed to show.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanistic_paradigm


We need to overthrow Mechanism and shift the paradigm!
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. KICK!
Very IMPORTANT!
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
58. Everyone call your Congress Rep and Senator!
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RhodaGrits Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
59. No bees here.
I've got a hundred acres here and been pesticide free for around 15 yrs. Had lots of wild honeybees in early 1990s Over the last few yrs, we've seen the honey bees disappear. A few bumblebees are left. I'm surrounded by 1000's of acres of undeveloped land and about a mile from a 2200 acre protected wetland management area. I can't blame the missing bees on Imidacloprid. No commercial farming for many miles. I don't know what's causing it. I just wish they'd come back.

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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
60. KICK!
Bees are a hell of lot more important than many topics. This is food, i.e. FOOD in the balance.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Amen!
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rec_report Donating Member (783 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
63. I can't recommend - it's past 24 hours. But, I can kick! n/t
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