Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Deficit commission co-chair says "The pig is dead. There is no more bacon to bring home."

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:30 AM
Original message
Deficit commission co-chair says "The pig is dead. There is no more bacon to bring home."
Oh great, Mr. Simpson. Just what we need to hear right now.

Of course he is talking about Social Security and Medicare. I want our Democrats out front and center now dispelling this notion.

Tackling the deficit takes courage

Federal deficit commission co-chairs Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles say that tough choices and sacrifice from all Americans will be needed in order to solve problems related to our massive federal debt. Simpson is a Republican, former U.S. senator from Wyoming and attorney. Bowles, a Democrat, worked in the financial sector, in government, and is president of the University of North Carolina.

"The pig is dead," said Simpson. "Theres no more bacon to bring home."

Medicare and Social Security are exploding, said Bowles.


The commission knows that Medicare is the biggest, toughest nut to crack, and it will almost certainly recommend reopening and revising the health care bill passed last year in order to bring down costs.

If theres good news on entitlements, its a growing belief in and around the commission that a bipartisan compromise can be forged on Social Security, said Simpson. It would probably involve another extension of the retirement age, an increase in Social Security taxes for the affluent and a modest reduction in benefits."


Obama said they would not privatize Social Security....but he has said nothing about reducing the payouts for future retirees.

He is the one who appointed Simpson. He had to have known how Simpson felt about seniors. Simpson as much as said that seniors on Medicare and Social Security were the reason the country was going to the dogs.

Simpson has already said that Social Security and Medicare are the reason this country is gonna go to the bow-wows, and he wouldnt be dissuaded from cutting them by AARP or the Gray Panthers, the Pink Panther, whatever. But in an interview on Fox News last week, Simpson managed to outdo himself.

..."Simpson never makes boring copy, and so far he has been consistently quotable in his remarks. He and his co-chairman, Erskine Bowles, make quite a media pair.

But the press needs to pay attention to what they are saying, because their drive to cut the deficit will affect the financial well-being of every man, woman, and child in America. So far the direction of the media coverage has been driven by their mantra: everything is on the table; no more Mr. Nice Guy when it comes to Social Security and Medicare. The Erskine and Alan show is laying the groundwork for drastically changing Social Security and Medicare in ways that might not be so palatable with the public


Simpson did not stop there.

Try this: Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will use up all the taxesrevenuethe government takes in this year. And to do the rest of governing we'll have to borrow, including for massive things like defense, homeland security, education. Those will be paid for by shaking a tin cup in front of the world. And China will probably be throwing more chips in the tin cup than any other country, just waiting patiently for us to expire under the debt. The people who distort the commission and try to scare people into doing nothing, let's say they win the day, and we don't do anything to try to bring down this debt. Well, great. They've got grandchildren, too, and in 40 years they'll be sucking canal water and picking grit with the chickens.


Obama appointed him and people like him to the deficit commission. That means he thinks they will do a good job.

I think he needs to understand that seniors are not going to be tolerant of this. Those around me in our area are getting upset about Social Security...they gave up trying to understand the Medicare plans. So they don't know enough to be upset about Medicare.

Mention cutting Social Security....and we will lose. Simpson just said it out loud, and Mr. President needs to counter that claim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Catchy phrasing ! The pig is dead - the hand writing is on the wall
And last but not least - the fix is in.

They can divide the public from each other
By cutting payouts somewhere out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
152. When they say the pig is dead, are they talking about
The inevitable, The Democratic party is dead; Killed by a pug prosthesis of their own hand; The Pugs parading as democrats invariably voting with the pugs, making them a majority. Those we politely call Bluedogs and DLCers.

How conveniently this is all turning out for the Pugs. Their dirty work done for them, branded indelibly with a D; To go down in history and voters mind as the work of Democrats. To hound them out of office at every election with these convoluted "facts" that are too complicated for the average democratic voter to understand.

How can the DLC and its treacherous band of Dinos not be complicit in the castration of our party; Making it a laughing stock without principle or Democratic Ideals? Supporting legislation written by corporation lawyers as our new bible, favoring corporations over the people of this county.

This hijack in broad daylight by Rahm et al. with cunning and deception; And how can we be stupid enough to let them get away with it; How can we sleep at night? Without the slightest effort at exposing them; Making loud their purpose; Without any attempt to save our party from their carefully planned ravages inevitably redounding to the pugs?

How much treacherous legislation written by corporate lawyers will we stomach before realizing they are cynically killing us fraud by fraud, bit by bit, plan by plan, killing the Democratic party by putting a Dino party in its place;

A plan already virtually accomplished and now being strengthened by Rahm et al's recruiting more and more pugs to run as dems, Pulling the rug from real democrats like Grayson and Franken et al; Fraudulently calling the fraud pragmatism; To feed their army of the ever so gullible excuse makers within our party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here it comes. The train rolling down the track and some keep their heads up their ass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. We have to cut Social Security and Medicare
Because the alternative is just too horrible to contemplate: Raising taxes on Paris Hilton! It would be the ruin of the empire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. Or cutting the War Machine n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mlevans Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #46
146. I WANT them to cut the War Machine.
And it has nothing to do with Social Security or Medicare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
100. Please, please, please, oh please
get someone to put that line in a campaign commercial.

PAGING: Mr. Grayson, Mr. Alan Grayson please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. So we have been extracting bacon from a live pig for 75 years?
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
128. We know Obama appointed him,
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 06:52 AM by TBF
and it was also Obama who talked about having "a conversation about social security" in his very first State of the Union speech. This has been in the works for awhile. He's got to finance the war-mongering somehow.

on Edit - sorry, meant to respond to OP. Not commenting on the pig or lack thereof... ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. Anymore, citizens are in the way of USA, Inc. If they could just outsource the
citizens, think how much better it would be for the top 3%. Each day, we get more and more BS. I wish the F Americans would wake up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. This commission is poison. A "bipartisan compromise" on Social Security will be a nightmare and
because it says "bipartisan" in front of it, Obama will support it. GAH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. Support it? He created it! I fail to see any good reason for that after the Senate defeated it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #37
145. Obama chose Simpson to be a co-chair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
58. So glad we had that "historic" election so this bipartisan BS Obama loves so much,.
can continue to screw the majority of us over, as per usual. :argh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
"Mr. President needs to counter that claim. "

lmao. Don't count on it. In fact EXPECT him to ECHO the 'claim'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. I am afraid you are right.
I wish you weren't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. And who called this a cat food commission?
How dare they!

:sarcasm:


Here is how to fix medicare: extend it to everyone and pay for it through a modest increase in the fica payroll tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. If it was extended to everyone there would not need to be a tax
to pay for it.
We pay for medicare...even seniors on SS have to pay for it....and if younger people and healthier people came into the system and instead of giving their premium to Big Insurance co...they payed it to Medicare we would probably have a surplus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. medicare is paid for out of the medicare portion of FICA tax.
That would have to be increased to pay for everyone, however the savings to society as a whole by eliminating the absurd worst on the planet private insurance costs would be enormous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. But not totally because those on medicare pay a premium.
Just like having health insurance.
But the pool contains all seniors who have more medical problems than the general population.
If we allowed anyone to buy into medicare the pool would need less care and the individual could save a lot of money by not having private insurance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savannah43 Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
151. We paid into the Medicare Fund through FICA, just
like Social Security, and we pay a monthly premium. Then we pay co-pays unless we fell for the Medicare Advantage scam. If we did that, we pay monthly premiums to private insurance companies AND premiums directly to the Medicare Fund. Regarding SS, it is supposed to be, and is right now until at least 2037, a self-sustaining fund. It in no way effects the deficit. It is pooled money accessed by those who paid into it the majority of or their entire working lives. Simpson is either a liar or stupid, and either way, he thinks we're stupid. If you don't believe this, Google any or all of my points and prove it to yourself. See Krugman on this, too. Simpson is trying to stop the employer/corporate matching funds that must be paid into these funds. Every cent a worker pays into SS and Medicare must be matched by their employer. This is mandatory. If a retirement plan was given to workers at the discretion of the employer, guess what would happen? Nothing. They don't want to give you living wages, much less benefits. They don't even really want to give you a job if they can outsource it to a third world country or China and pay in shiny beads. Don't put up with this. If you won't fight for yourself, consider it a full frontal assault on your Grandma. Get them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. The *pigs* went to war. Now we all have to 'make sacrifices'
i.e. give up our retirements and health care.

fuckers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. "Modest reduction in Benfits."----famous last words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. Instead of reducing Social Security payouts, how about reducing benefits for Congress?
Cut back on some of the bacon they get when they leave office.

Cut Social Security completely for people who are millionaires. People like George Bush and John McCain don't need it, and shouldn't take it if things are this bad.

How about finding where all those "lost millions" went to Iraq contractors? That should surely help pay a few other bills. How about demanding refunds from Halliburton on their shoddy construction in Iraq that resulted in the deaths of soldiers?

And that's just a start...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. Hey! If everything's on the table...
Bet Simpson hasn't refused his nice retirement plan he has for his years in the Senate. Why are we supporting all these freeloaders after they leave office?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
79. +1000
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
94. STOP the automatic pay raises ... and no MEDICARE FOR ALL... then no benefits for Congress!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
114. Actually it was 'BILLIONS".
And it wasn't lost, it was stolen. But we must look forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. Simpson is garbage
Things like "Defense and homeland security" have been borrowing from Social Security for decades
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
71. Who appointed him as co-chair of Cat Food Commission?
Who packed the commission with known enemies of Social Security and Medicare?

Simpson had Grover Norquest testify behind closed doors to the Cat Food Commission.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #71
115. "If it walks like a duck.." nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #71
132. Simpson had Grover Norquist testify behind closed doors?! OMG
Whoa. Is there a link somewhere to a report?

I've noticed certain members are not posting on this topic. It's painful, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Gee, isn't there some "pig" left in the Defense budget and the
oil company tax subsidies, and the still-reduced upper tax brackets, and on and on and on?

Maybe the poor and the elderly and healthcare generally should be the LAST ones to "make sacrifices," and vague, multi-hundred billion dollar nation building exercises should be first.

SMART Dems can come off as heroes here by capitalizing on softening public support for the war(S) and the impossible-to-overestimate support for SS and Medicare among our huge, heavily voting elderly population.

STUPID Dems might be tempted to make backroom deals to give the Republicans a taste of the blood they are dying to suck out of social programs, and then try to dress it up as victory or "bipartisanship."

Don't fall for it, guys. You can OWN this issue, if you stand up for what's right. Give away the high ground, and you become what you've beheld.

Don't blow it. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. "The first is cutting defense, starting with weapons programs that were designed for the Cold War."
For some reason the OP didn't include remarks about cutting defense spending. I was a little surprised after reading all the accusations about them not considering defense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
67. One other thing, this past year is the first year that
Social Security paid out more than it took in.

And that happened to occur because the job situation is so terrible. When workers are unemployed they cannot pay into Social Security.

So rather than wringing their hands and saying that deficit wise, the sky is falling, start making more jobs available.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
102. Social Security didn't pay out more than it took in this past year.
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 11:15 PM by Lasher
That myth is being perpetuated by alarmists who want us to think the sky is falling. Not saying you're guilty of such motives, I remember you from the Economic Populist and know you're cool. But the truth is, Social Security's expenditures exceeded revenue for one quarter this past year. During the other three quarters it took in more than it paid out.

But soon Social Security will soon start paying out more than it takes in. It will then start chashing in the trust fund's treasury bonds to make up for the shortfall, as planned. That's why we paid extra payroll taxes for 40 years, to save up over 2 trillion dollars in the trust fund so that there would be no catfood commission in the year 2010 that would steal our benefits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #102
147. That is good to know.
And it is possible that I misheard the policy wonk testifying before Congress on this over at C Span. he probably said "one quarter" and not the whole year.

I will add your remarks to my data base for whenever I engage with discussions from the RW coffee barristas - the kids who didn't even know that we PAID INTO the damn Social Security fund. Their mentors have them convinced that Social Security is a free ride provided for by a benevolent government that just decided to give everyone a retirement that never cost anyone anything along the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. I resemble that remark....

yuk yuk.

His reality is that defined by the ruling class. Fuck him.

Do a good job for who?

Not for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
15. The Democratic Party now supports "tweaks" in Social Security. "Treaks" is the code word for cuts.

That's according to Democratic National Committee communications director Brad Woodhouse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Devil_Fish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
73. fucking tweakers. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. In addition to Bowles and Simpson, the rest of the commission
Erskine Bowles during the Clinton presidency made a deal with Newt Gingrich to partially privatize Medicare. Look at the other names. One man on there whom I respect warned that "bleeding heart liberals" would be in for a surprise. His name is Dick Durbin.

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.)

Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-Calif.)

Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.)

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.)

Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.)

David Cote, Chairman and CEO, Honeywell International

Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho)

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.)

Ann Fudge, Former CEO, Young & Rubicam Brands

Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.)

Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas
)

Alice Rivlin, Senior Fellow, Brookings Institute and former Director, Office of Management & Budget

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.)

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.)

Rep. John Spratt (D-S.C.)

Andrew Stern, former President, Service Employees International Union
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
87. Baucus, Coburn, Conrad, Hensnarling, Ryan.......
The commission is only missing Sen Jim Bunning, Michele Malkin and Jan Brewer..

We (the people who paid into SS) are so screwed....

Thank You Mr. Obama!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #87
116. Can there be any doubt
that the Commission was formed with a specific outcome in mind?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. There was plenty of pork for the banks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Amazing how they can ignore the ELEPHANT in the room
That would be the BIG, RED upper part of this graph.


Health and Human services are less than 1/8th of the military budget.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes, they are ignoring it. Amazing.
:shrug:

Says a lot about our country's priorities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
48. They say the definition of insanity is.......... nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
64. Did you make that graphic or borrow it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
97. This graphic is old
I remember some DUer had it as their sig pic years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
78. Maybe they are colorblind? And it is just an honest mistake..
We shouldn't be so hard on the handicapped, shame on you (sarcasm) ;-)

I can't wait to read the new creative venues for spin this one the usual suspects are going to have to come up with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
90. worthy of a billboard outside their offices n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Amazing! Who appointed that asshole, anyway? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's not just seniors who are going to be upset!
Part of the problem is that so many under the age of 40 have been hearing for years (from the MSM and righties) that social security will be bankrupt before they can ever get it...so they've been trained to not care about it..and not expect it. They won't care enough to fight for it because they've never felt they "had" it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Good point.
For years the right wing has put a wedge between the two generations on purpose. Made it sound like seniors were taking the money from the younger generation. It was brilliantly done, and I think you are right. They won't care enough to fight.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. We need to spread the word however we can that
Social Security is called an "entitlement" because we're "entitled" to it because we pay into it specifically in our paychecks. That money should never have been used to pay for wars of choice or private soldiers or anything else.
I think we should hold our Democratic leaders accountable and tell them that we expect them to get the truth out...and not just go along with the republican and cat food commission's talking points.
Actually, if we should tell our congressional leaders to tell the truth no matter which party they belong to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Devil_Fish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
75. yea it realy sucks that we (under 40) have to pay for somthing we will neer get.
I would opt out if I could and save the damn money myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. This is the attitude that will guarantee that
cuts will be made in benefits, the retirement age raised to 70 and probably privatization will become a reality.

I guess you bought the propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #22
136. Anyone who thinks that way is ignorant!
12% off of the top of every self employed / small business owner's pay check has been hijacked for a lifetime and they don't care. They should at least be disgusted at the thought of being robbed. I have payed into SS since was 15, even when my pay was $1 an hour. They money that has been payed in over the years would be a chunk on it's own. Add to this the health insurance premiums that small business has paid over the years because selfish 'lawmakers' have refused to look at the problem. I feel like a fool paying my double SS year after and year and writing my $26K health care check every year. How much more can the 50ish folks talk. We have bore the burden and now we are supposed to walk away and shut up about it. Pretty sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. But the cuts are only a "tiny sliver" of the whole package !
You can't let The Perfect be the enemy of The Good!!!


How "THEY" Will cut your Social Security
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Exactly on point. Just like the public option was "just a tiny sliver" of HC *reform*.
Some days, there is just no end in sight for this unchecked insanity.


In fact, most days.


Keep up the fight, bvar22.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. "They" are coming,
and "they" will get it.
I see nothing in this "New Democrat" Party that will stop "them".
The "New Democrat" Party IS "them".

"By their works you will know them."



The DLC New Team
FDR Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
95. Don't worry Bvar,
they'll fix it later. :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. ok mr. simpson and mr. bowles
then i'm going to convince every american to stop paying ALL their credit card bills and only pay for necessities, and pay for those necessities with cash. how's that sound? because that's what will happen with all those boomers


what a bunch of nazis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
26. simpson = pig
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. Spider pig is dead?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. Just...*sigh*.....Rec to wake people up. Time is short. It will be shorter after the election. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Modest reduction" in benefits?
So at least we'll be able to afford Fancy Feast instead of Friskies??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R sigh..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. Is it time for the pitchforks, yet? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #35
117. Way past time.
We should have been there with the bank giveaway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
41.  Disgusting. This should never represent the Democratic party.
Simpson is a pig and I respect no one who respects him. Talk about handing the GOP one of our bench marks. He is a complete bastard and there is no justifcation for his appointment. NONE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. HELLOOOOO? Military budget?
Or, like most conservatives, Republican or Democratic, does he think that wars come at no cost?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. The PIG isn't dead.
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 03:52 PM by bvar22
In Fact,
The PIG Won the Class War!
The PIG now owns both Parties.
The PIG gets whatever the PIG wants,
and NOW the PIG wants our Social Security.

Cutting Social Security is the only sensible solution.
It is only a tiny sliver of the whole package.
Don't let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Hahahahahahahahaha!


EDIT to add link:
How "THEY" Will cut your Social Security
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. +1 more
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 04:37 PM by slay
it's sick - capitalism laid bare and raw

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. I want to laugh at that, but it makes me want to cry also.
Those words:

"Cutting Social Security is the only sensible solution.
It is only a tiny sliver of the whole package.
Don't let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Hahahahahahahahaha!"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #43
80. Your post says it all. We need to make a million posters out of it
and stick them up on every wall and light pole from here to DC.

I mean really, what are we going to do about this? Are we going to start fighting back or not?

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
85. +1 n/t
-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #43
118. Zackly.
Do you really think they will stop here? They can take more, and they will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
44. Don't the WARS take up a lot of our revenue?
What costs more during the year: wars in Mideast or social Security? Which benefits the people most?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spheric Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R Thank you for posting the truth.
They are hoping to distract us with the upcoming election. I say make this election a litmus test on cutting social security for those who are running for re-election. They plan to vote on this in lame duck session, so it will be done before the new people arrive. But, perhaps we can move a few people to our side if they understand that voting against social security will be the last vote they cast.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
51. As usual, well researched and fully cited. The race to thirdworlditude continues.
I'm glad we don't have a repubican in the white house. At least we're not being asked to pay back the Social Security our dead parents collected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
52. More like the piggy bank
Social Security has been raided to pay for two wars and a tax cut for the rich. In short, it's been a direct transfer of wealth from working people to the uber-rich. We need to reverse that transfer ASAP, and the first step is calling them on their theft.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Beautifully succint. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
77. Bingo. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #52
110. Yes!
It's so simple. We can see the truth, but they're twisting things around hoping that we'd be stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. The pig is dead?? Tell THAT to the Pentagon and the intelligence community
It's been Christmas morning for them since 9-11...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
57. There may well be some dead porkers
before this fight is over, but they won't be people who rely on Social Security benefits to live. That old establishment hog Simpson might want to root around in that possibility before he continues to imply that those who've paid all their lives into that system are the undeserving pigs, because we already know who they really are Mr. Simpson. Oink, oink!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
59. I wonder if Obama is in over his head and really wants to lose...
the 2012 election. There is no issue that will get the citizens of the entire country over age 50 together than Obama cutting Social Security benefits. If Obama understands that, then maybe he WANTS to lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Not quite that stupid. They'll exempt people that are 50-55 and do divide and conquer
Older folks will have nothing to lose unless the younger people refuse to "fix" their Social Security and the younger people will have have nothing to lose as always and "now" they might get something to supplement their 101k's

As long as they balance the cut off point then they can pitch it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. You are absolutely right. But the cut off age will be tricky..
I am just under the cutoff age of 55. People who I graduated high school with will receive benefits at 65, but by a stroke of Obama's pen I will have to wait until 70. Will there not be some litigation about that? Does that not violate some principle of equity? I started folding shop towels at a laundry at age 14. Why do my social security holdings not count as much as my friend's who is older by 2 years and did not start working until after she graduated high school. Won't there be some litigation? Never mind- I momentarily forget the Supreme Court is made up of Corporate Elites. We're screwed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #72
89. I doubt anything legal can be done on that. It already happened once as you described
and it hasn't gotten even a whiff that I know of. Sadly, you're in line for possibly getting the hose twice within your working life.

I don't get anybody going with this though. I'm only 37 and fit to be tied. I've already got more than 20 in myself as I started paying in at 15 1/2.

This is also wage suicide. I'm not advocating forced retirements but that extra three years will balloon an employee pool that is on the long term decline.

As soon as it is a penny cheaper to use a robot or a computer even the Chinese slaves will be out of work. The paradigm we are on with 40 hours a week for 40 years for one and all just has little hope of being maintained in the long term.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
143. No - people born after 1960 can't collect until age Sixty-SEVEN
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 11:41 AM by Divernan
Go to this link to see how long you must work to collect full benefits.

Only people born in 1937 or earlier can retire with full benefits at age 65.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm

The early retirement at age 62 is still an option, but for those born after 1960, your full benefit is reduced by 30%. And the government can change or completely eliminate that age 62 option at any time. That was one of the reasons that I took early retirement/social security at age 62. My full ss would not have been available until I was age 65 years and 8 months, and during that 3 year and 8 month period, the government could have arbitrarily raised the ag or reduced the payments at any time. The common wisdom is that the govt. is LEAST likely to try to impose any new limitations on social security payments of people who are already collecting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kltpzyxm Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
60. ...
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
61. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
62. How about sacrificing the stupid WARS to save Social Security?
Or does that make too much sense for Washington?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
65. So what's their solution? Euthanasia for grandma?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. Soylent Green
(last lines)
Det. Thorn: It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Hatcher: I promise, Tiger. I promise. I'll tell the exchange.
Det. Thorn: You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! Soylent Green is people! We've gotta stop them somehow!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/quotes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #70
122. LOL - that truly is the way we seem to be headed.
I'm going to change my name to Lunch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
66. And Gibbs wonders why some of the "professional left" is less than pleased with Obama. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
68. Part of me hopes they cut the hell out of SS and Medicare.
Maybe then people will finally be fed up enough to march en masse on DC and take our govt back. Until that happens, this will never stop - cuts, cuts, and more cuts for us peons until we all are grovelling in the streets to the mighty corps for slave wage jobs (a large portion of the country is there already). All the while "the People's Govt" transfers what little wealth we have left to the CEO class.

Thanks for the post madflo! K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
69. This is today's story! The two Cat Food co-chairs are going to stab our seniors in the back
It was bad enough to have Geithner and Summers in the Administration, now we got these two Soylent Green nazis to deal with!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jerseyjack Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. The Pig AIN"T Dead !!!
His name is Alan Simpson.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #74
119. Is there any question
that he was chosen specifically to play the role of villain? I mean he plays one in real life so he is perfect in the role.

But the REAL villain is the one that appointed such a commission to start with. We can't lose sight of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
84. Not just seniors - everyone else, too.
Raise the retirement age and competition for jobs just becomes more ferocious across generations in today's and tomorrow's labor pool. That competition and the resulting unemployment itself will increase deficits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
76. If you call it "entitlements" then you've already lost the argument
That Reagan era spin. We paid into the system, just as we paid into Medicare and Unemployment insurance. The solution to the deficit (which no one cared about when Bush was in office) are simple: get out of the Mideast, close more than half our overseas bases, and force the rich and corporations to pay their fair share.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #76
96. Yep
That is the only answer. Especially the force the rich to pay their fair share.

Benefits should be growing, The numbers of people covered should be growing.

The age you can start getting back some of your money should be lowering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
82. Fuck these guys.
Here's a little Econ 101: Unemployment causes deficits. If you make college graduates compete with their parents and grandparents for jobs then you will have more unemployment and greater deficits.

Lower the retirement age and you'll see stimulus.

Why in the hell would an intelligent person listen to these DLC fuckers' advice?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Good question. n/t
-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #82
120. They simply do not give a fuck.
They got their's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
83. Enjoy what's left of your one disastrous term, President Obama.
I certainly don't expect to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #83
105. There is a special circle in the Inferno reserved for traitors
and it is not a pleasant one. I think betraying a People is far worse than betraying a monarch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #83
107. Sad thing is...
Obama is still going to be better then the Repug Candidate. :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
91. um, Obama appointed him
there is no hope anything will change the direction they are headed. Which is the dismantling of SS and Medicare. Mr. president will not do a fucking thing to stop it. Hell, he put it in motion! We have been duped. Again.

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
92. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
93. Why in the hell are we allowing Obama to appoint a REPUG to ovesee this commission????
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 09:11 PM by defendandprotect
What is wrong with us???

Did we elect Obama because we wanted Republicans in charge???

This is insane!!



And now we're playing "hide the bacon"? We all know where the bacon is ....

and it's not in the pockets of the people!!

MIC --

Insurance companies/Drug companies that have benefitted from Bush/Obama "reform" of

health care system --

And in Bush's payoff to the Vatican via taxpayer subsidy of "faith-based" organizations...

most of which are Catholic.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #93
108. He did not ask us, it was done before we knew it.
But good question...why did he pick such people knowing their views. He had to know how Alan Simpson angered Democrats. He must have known that.

I think it is all a done deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #108
121. Like I pointed out in
a previous post, Simpson was chosen specifically to play the role of villain. I mean come on, just look at the guy and the stuff he says. This can't be an accident. We might be some dumb but we ain't plumb dumb.

This is one huge continuing operation-the fleecing of the American people. The sooner we wake up to this fact the better off we will be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
98. If you have bacon, the pig is dead by definition
He don't make no goddamn sense anyhow.

And hows about that military spending? Lots of countries offer old age pensions and health care, but no one spends on offensive military capability like we do. If you want to look at why the budget is not in balance, that's the first place you ought to check, not granny's benefits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Of course, over 50% of the entire federal budget goes to the military...
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
101. K & R


:hi:



:kick:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
103. They are leaving us no alternative but to sell our lives dearly.
And not go gentle into that good night. Aux barricades, citoyens!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
104. Unneeded Duplicate
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 12:01 AM by Hardrada
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
106. they're already saying it needs to be tweaked
once again giving away the farm before they even get to the negotiation table.
At some point you have to think that it's deliberate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #106
111. Wether deliberate or not, at this point is already a lose-lose proposition
so either it is deliberate and thus meaning these are a bunch of two faced traitorous assholes, or this is their honest best approach to negotiation meaning these Dems are collectively dumber than a bag of dull rocks. Take your pick, we're screwed either way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
109. the two programs need to be de-coupled in people's mind- they are not the same thing
and ARE NOT in the same sort of fiscal trouble.

Don't use Medicare's problems to scuttle social security when the Dems are right. A few tweeks on SSec and it will be just fine. Whether that is raising the cap, means testing, or raising the retirement age can and should be debated in public (not in some backroom commission).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
112. WHY is cutting defense spending and taxing the rich more fairly OFF the table?
WHY is that never mentioned?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #112
124. Because it's not what the electorate want to hear.
I agree with you 100% that those are the two most sensible ways to tackle the defecit.

But, sadly, the problem is not wicked politicians defying the people's will, but a majority of the electorate that views tax rises as tantamount to Stalinism and cuts in military spending as unpatriotic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #124
129. The electorate is not that stupid -
although if you watch only tea party clips I could see the confusion ...

Most people want out of Iraq & Afghanistan. As for raising taxes, if the clear message is that we are increasing taxes on folks making over $250K I don't think many are going to complain about that. Although I'll grant you that the US Media will confuse that as much as possible (as they are mainly owned by Murdock and he sure doesn't want to pay taxes).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
113. Why should we tolerate a lie?
If social security is damaged in any way it will be ENTIRELY Obama's fault. Entirely. He appointed this ridiculous commission made up of anti-poor zealots. Besides. Obama can veto any piece of legislation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
123. Two of those three look sensible.
Raising the retirement age, again and again, is an inevitable consequence of healthcare improving. As more and more people live longer, if we don't raise the retirement age then the proportion of the populace in work will get lower and lower, with obvious consequences.

And raising taxes on the affluent is by far the best way to tackle America's defecit (although I have slight doubts about Mr Simpson's definition of "affluent").

But America's social security benefits are already too low; cutting them further should be a last resort if that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #123
130. Agree on this -
the age should be 70. I don't have a problem with them making that increase. I'm on sabbatical now, but paid in at the highest rate through the past two decades. I'd like to see some of that money when I retire, but I completely understand that if people are living a little longer why not increase the age to 70.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #130
134. How many companies actually hire people over 55?
I'm rolling my eyes at your post because I know what reality is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #134
138. Good point.
Maybe tax subsidies for hiring workers over 40? (I think that's how they define "protected class" - over aged 40). I know I'm not the best at coming up with solutions to Capitalist problems. If it were up to me the workers would own the means of production, wealth would be vastly re-distributed, and everyone would have basic housing, food, and health care free of charge.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #130
148. let's see you have a depleted job market and people in their fifties and
sixties being laid off. There is nothing wrong with social security! So, people who can't find work now and have been screwed on their pensions because of wall street, should now wait until their seventy!!!

Well, you really don't have to worry about them living longer if they're out on the streets, do you?

I think anyone who has worked over forty years should be eligible to receive social security no matter what age you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. I think you neglected to read my follow up comment -
"Maybe tax subsidies for hiring workers over 40? (I think that's how they define "protected class" - over aged 40). I know I'm not the best at coming up with solutions to Capitalist problems. If it were up to me the workers would own the means of production, wealth would be vastly re-distributed, and everyone would have basic housing, food, and health care free of charge."

I do think the "age 70" increase has been in the works for awhile now - I found a SS update form from a few years ago (I believe in was 2006) when I was cleaning, and it detailed what I would receive each month should I retire at age 62, 67 and 70. So I guess waiting until you're 70 is already an option & your monthly payment is higher if you do that??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #130
150. People who get sabbaticals are intellectuals, not physical laborers
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 04:05 PM by Divernan
Easy for them to keep working until 70 - and most university faculty do. People who perform physical labor, whether its driving a truck or standing on their feet 8 hours a day as clerks, waitstaff, fast food cooks, or type at keyboards all day, etc., often develop health problems over the course of their work life. We're talking bad backs, bad knees, foot problems, carpal tunnel syndrome, impaired hearing, etc. Employers know that hiring or retaining employees with the health problems of aging means higher health insurance premiums, and more sick days.

I would also point out that even though our life expectancy is increasing, that is not to say that there are not more serious and prevalent health issues between ages 60 and 70. Our pharmaceutical industry makes large profits by medicating us for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes; and people who have cancer, strokes, heart disease etc., have longer survival rates, but their stamina and health are still severely impaired.

In other words, our medical care system extends our life expectancies, but does not proportionally extend our physical fitness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
125. here we go... .bend over here it comes....
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/07/phil-i...

That is how the largest theft in the history of the world was carried out. 300M people worked and saved their whole lives to set aside $2.5Tn into a retirement system that, if it were paying a fair compounding rate of 5% interest over 40 years of labor (assuming an even $62Bn a year was contributed), would be worth $8.4Tn today enough money to give 100M workers $84,000 each in cash! The looting of FICA hid the massive deficits of the last 30 years in the Unified Budget. Presidents and Congresses were able to reduce taxes on the wealthiest Americans without complaint from the deficit hawks, because they benefited. The money went directly from the pockets of average Americans into the pockets of the rich.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Squeal, Like That Guy In Deliverance
And don't forget to smile at the same time. When will enough be enough people? When???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #125
153. Thanks for the post/graph -nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
127. The pig doesn't want to pay its fair share of taxes.
The pig wants free money and no regulations. The pig is the wealthy and the corporations that they own. The pig is a vampire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
131. The Pig is very much alive. Simpson the Swine's demise will be greatly appreciated.
I can't believe these assholes who were feeding at the public trough for years and are now enjoying generous pensions and health care they awarded themselves while actual working class Americans are in want. America is upside-down and going to hell in a hand basket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
133. That metaphor doesn't even make sense.
You don't get any bacon until the pig is dead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
135. DUers who defend everything the President does are noticeably missing from this topic
Hmmm.

Where are you guys?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
137. I don't know about the pig but the donkey better watch his ass...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
139. I understand many things...but not this!
I understand why we don't get meaningful healthcare reform. I get that the health-insurance companies
are running the show.

I get why BP was able to use Corexit, even though the EPA told them to cease and desist. The corporations
are so powerful that they can defy government orders.

I get why are food supply isn't safe. The USDA has been gutted and the corporations are in control.

However, I will never, ever understand why politicians would want to cut Social Security and cause
senior citizens to starve, lose their homes and struggle to survive.

It's nothing but mean spirited and evil. Plain and simple. Cutting the money off to senior citizens benefits no one.
The powerful corporations aren't helped. There is no hidden benefit.

The cuts only hurt and create personal devastation. It's sickening and I'll never understand why any politician
would want to do this to people who have been promised this money their entire lives.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
140. How can the pig be dead? He was just seen lying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
141. How about this?
1) Get out of Iraq & Afghanistan completely. While I realize this can't happen overnight, this will bring a huge savings once we're down to just spec ops in Afghanistan/Pakistan and a much smaller residual force in Iraq. That would be $80-100 billion per year in savings.

2) Scale back our military presence around the world. Do we really need 75,000 or so troops in Germany? How about tens of thousand of troops in Japan and South Korea? While I understand the need for some bases around the world, is Germany really necessary? Billions more in savings, if not 10s of billions.

3) Allow the bush tax cuts to expire for the wealthiest. That's like $300 billion/year.

4) Implement a progressive tax on capital gains so Warren Buffet isn't paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. That would be a good 100 billions or more per year.

5) Implement a strong public option on health care. Savings would be 10s of billions per year and grow over time.

Bingo, deficit problem solved.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
142. How do you get a pig to slaughter itself?
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 11:57 AM by felix_numinous
The people will have to stand up for what is rightfully ours. They are insane to touch what is essentially our pensions while they live in the lap of luxury.

The pig is just playing dead, it is alive and well, yet wishes to feast on the hard earned work of others. It is essentially a system irrationally addicted and drunk on its own power. It has gotten away with looting and robbing for so long now it brazenly steals in the open now, since no one has so drawn a line in the sand.

The pig is insane excess, it is the endgame of a system now in a parasitic stage. It has to be starved of what it wants, that is the only way. The pig must be slaughtered from the outside, in other words, people have to say no to essentially abusive treatment by our own government--that has essentially turned abusive. It is very hard to stand up to abuse, individually and collectively, but eventually it has to be done, in order to survive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
144. Simpson certainly has barnyard animals on the brain. Cows, now
pigs. Hmmmmm....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
154. Isn't the pig usually dead...
...when you folks eat it, bacon or otherwise?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Oct 22nd 2019, 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC