Obama Likely To Address Mosque & DO THE RIGHT THING Tonight

[kpete]

* Obama will address the Cordoba House controversy tonight, and judging by Robert Gibbs' hint, he'll come down on the right side:
..................

Gibbs signals that the Cordoba Center is on tonight's Iftar menu:

"Religious freedom is something that the president believes in, and I think you'll hear him talk about it tonight," Gibbs said.

This is the sort of "teachable moment" that inspired so many of Obama's campaign supporters, and also the kind of cultural controversy that terrifies his political staff.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/happy_hour_roundup_72.html

[msongs]

1. muslims better hope n pray obama doesn't promise to be a fierce advocate for them lol nt

[yowzayowzayowza]

4. Excellent!!! More cynical garbage. n/t

[jgraz]

5. Cynical? Yes. Garbage? Hardly.

Obama's earned every potshot in this area. He hasn't exactly been a profile in courage when it comes to promoting tolerance.

That having been said, if he does the right thing here, I'll be among the first to praise him.

[Whisp]

6. yes, by snapping his fingers Obama is going to change a history of bigoted intolerance.

and if he doesn't – what a total failure.

:eyes:

[Taverner]

7. Thing is he may WANT to change people's minds

But he CAN'T

I wish him the best

[Whisp]

9. I wish him the best as well.

Wishing him ill does no one any good.
pretty simple and kind of sick to have to actually say that.

[Taverner]

11. It is what it is

[jgraz]

12. He can start by changing his own mind

On the day Prop 8 was overturned, Obama sent out an anonymous spokesdroid to reiterate his opposition to full LGBT civil rights. There was no need for him to do this, no one was clamoring for his blessing. But for some reason, he felt the need to come out and kick the gay community in the ass once more.

As long as the fundies can point to "our" president as an example of someone who agrees with their twisted reading of their magic book, we will find it difficult to make progress promoting tolerance.

[Taverner]

13. He's a homophobe, that's for sure

Why? I have no clue.

But there are a number of issues where I did agree with him that need to be acted upon.

[yowzayowzayowza]

14. Good gawd. Is there anything teh gay issues can't be smeared on? n/t

[jgraz]

15. It's not a "gay issue", it's a civil rights issue.

The sooner you wrap your brain around that, the sooner you'll understand the anger over it.

[yowzayowzayowza]

17. I understand the frustration perfectly.

Those feelings doesn't justify smearing the issue on fucking everything.

[jgraz]

19. Tonight should be a speech on tolerance.

Obama's milquetoast stance on gay rights affects my perception of his general support for tolerance. That's a solid logical connection, not "smearing the issue on fucking everything."

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. Smears are generally made of 'solid logical connections'.

eta - Thatz what makes them stick.

[jgraz]

27. Um... not in this universe.

Seriously, your idolization of a single person is affecting your ability to parse English.

[yowzayowzayowza]

29. Well, letz have a look:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smear

smear (smîr)
v. smeared, smear·ing, smears
v.tr.
1.
a. To spread or daub with a sticky, greasy, or dirty substance.
b. To apply by spreading or daubing: smeared suntan lotion on my face and arms.
2. To stain by or as if by spreading or daubing with a sticky, greasy, or dirty substance.
3. To stain or attempt to destroy the reputation of; vilify: political enemies who smeared his name.
4. Slang To defeat utterly; smash.

[jgraz]

32. You fail at using teh dictionary

Unless you're so immature as to think that criticism of a president's actions while in office are "an attempt to destroy his reputation." :eyes:

[yowzayowzayowza]

35. Sure, the purpose of the first response wuzn't to vilify the President.

Silly me.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vilify

Main Entry: vil·i·fy
Pronunciation: \ˈvi-lə-ˌfī\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): vil·i·fied; vil·i·fy·ing
Etymology: Middle English vilifien, from Late Latin vilificare, from Latin vilis cheap, vile
Date: 15th century

1 : to lower in estimation or importance
2 : to utter slanderous and abusive statements against : defame

[jgraz]

39. I didn't realize you were an internet mindreader

And, FYI, posting dictionary definitions is the debating equivalent of throwing the gun after you've run out of bullets. You're embarrassing yourself.

[yowzayowzayowza]

40. Sorry, confused you for the first responder.

eta - You brought up parsing the language, then wanna rag on me for def'ns. :eyes:

[jgraz]

41. Yes, there's a difference between understanding a language and using a dictionary

If you want to be taken seriously, you should probably learn that lesson.

[yowzayowzayowza]

42. Yea, like understanding the difference betwixt vilification & criticism. n/t

[jgraz]

43. Yeah, but hopefully you've now been schooled on that.

We'll see how good your retention is.

[yowzayowzayowza]

47. Blinded by cynicism, I doubt yer gunna see much.

Good evening.

[Whisp]

16. what do you say about gays and hospital visitation rights

because Obama made it so.

Is that kicking gay community ass too?
or is it progress? how do you fit this into your scope of how you see Obama?

[jgraz]

18. Once again, using *actual* logic will probably help you here.

Because Obama has done some things to ameliorate the most appalling consequences of institutional homophobia, that doesn't mean he's immune from criticism for his own homophobia and his refusal to stop discharging gay service members.

[Whisp]

20. but he is making progress, is he not?

[jgraz]

34. No, he is not.

He's made a few changes. "Progress" would require continual movement toward a goal. Not only hasn't there been movement, he hasn't even articulated what his goal is in this area.

[Whisp]

25. do you think there are more unhappy gay service members

than happy gay couples that can now be with each other in a hospital setting?

the military is fucked up in a lot of ways, but you make a choice of joining and joining under certain conditions. Those conditions right now are not fair to gays by any means, they should be free to be themselves and that should go without saying and I hope that DADT gets repealed as soon as possible because it's just... dumb.

But you apply to be in the military, and if you are gay I think you are aware of this dumb rule.

If you are sick, there is no other decision but to go. So, not having any statistics but I am thinking there are a whole lot of people that are very happy for this change in the law.

If you had/have a gay couple that are close friends and one had to be hospitalized... how would you feel about his/her partner being able to be at the bedside now? Would you feel happy for them (I would! and I sure would't have to think about it) or would you feel a bit of resentment because... well .. because.

[jgraz]

28. How is it a choice between the two?

Failure to do one thing is not excused by doing something different. Obama can end LGBT firings TODAY. But he chooses not to.

[Whisp]

31. I don't know that he can. Doesn't Congress have to do that?

and yes there is a choice between taking a job where you know what the dumb rules are (hopefully for a short meanwhile) than choosing not to be sick.

[jgraz]

33. He can give a stop-loss order immediately.

All firings of gay service members will stop while Congress gets itself sorted out.

[Whisp]

36. How many are being fired?

[jgraz]

37. How many would be acceptable to you?

[Whisp]

44. that's ok if you don't have an answer.

none is actually acceptable, but I would like to hear the reality. You seem to know all this stuff so I am just asking

[jgraz]

45. Go ahead and look it up. I don't recall the exact figure

But I seem to remember that it's at least in the hundreds. I hope I'm wrong.

[yowzayowzayowza]

10. Gee, what wuz that speech in Cairo about again?

"Obama's earned every potshot in this area. He hasn't exactly been a profile in courage when it comes to promoting tolerance."

Lovely, more garbage.

[jgraz]

23. Pretty words backed up by far too little action.

Has he stopped or even dialed back our wars on Islamic countries? No.

Has he stopped our illegal detention of prisoners in Guantanamo? No.

Has he granted full trial rights to our detainees? No.

Has he renounced rendition? Executive-ordered assassination? Denial of Habeas Corpus? No, no and no.

Has he done one thing to stand up to Israel's oppression of the Palestinians? Hell no.


So, he can give all the pretty speeches he wants. He's good at that. But in most cases, he needs to back it up with action or the speech means nothing. Lucky for him, tonight's situation may be the exception. If he gives a great speech on tolerance, it may be enough to defuse the situation. We'll see.

[yowzayowzayowza]

24. Schmear, schmear, schmear. n/t

[jgraz]

26. Apparently, your definition of "smear" is "specific criticism back up by facts."

Or is it "any criticism of someone I personally idolize"?

[yowzayowzayowza]

30. See above.

:hi:

[Canuckistanian]

22. I guess a "beer summit" is probably off the agenda n/t

[spin]

48. LOL. Good one. (n/t)

[malaise]

2. Any live coverage? n/t

[DevonRex]

3. Good news. nt

[sabrina 1]

8. That is very good news.

Using the bully pulpit to slap down bigotry .... it is sickening how blatant it is in this country since 9/11. It's as if a lid was lifted off a boiling pot and permission was given to return to the days before the Civil Rights movement.

It needs to be addressed and I am glad to hear that the President is going to do so.

[malaise]

38. KO read the text of the speech

There was a news embargo until 8.30pm
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/obama-backs-mosque-near-591627.html
<snip>
"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said, weighing in for the first time on a controversy that has riven New York and the nation.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

----------
KO said Obama mentioned attitudes to Synagogues and Catholic churches in the past but so far no reports include that part.

[immoderate]

46. The only thing a POTUS CAN say. Good that he did though.

I say to people, "Look at the Constitution. What is the question? -- Because someone is offended?"

I have no use for religion myself, but fuck anybody who would deprive someone of their religious rights.

It's uncivilized. It's Un-American too.

--imm

[applegrove]

49. I'm so glad he is saying it.