Is Owning an Apple IPad wrong?

[BrentWil]

I am writing this post from an Apple Ipad that was a gift. This is a product made in various countries by workers who make various wages. It created environmental damage when it was made and more when it was shipped. In a world with so many poor, is owning this IPad wrong?

[Jane Austin]

1. Is reading your post on an HP, Dell or Apple computer wrong? n/t

[BrentWil]

10. Is owning a computer wrong?

workers making subpar pay and damage to the environment? Not to mention the damage of shipping it.

[readmoreoften]

62. No. But not supporting working uprisings is wrong.

Change happens through hard work, international organizing, and struggle. It doesn't happen from moralizing and scolding people who own iPads and shoes and space heaters.

[MadBadger]

2. Absolutely

[dorkulon]

122. Where was your computer made?

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Only if it is used as a feminine hygiene product. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

4. Of everything, there are degrees. -nt

[BrentWil]

12. I own a product that was made by cheap labor and was shipped with tremendous carbon cost.

What degree of it is not wrong.

[cliffordu]

70. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT YOUR VEGETABLES, HERE??

should be. that describes them perfectly.

[BrentWil]

95. Good point. SHould we not apply buy locally to everything. NT

[cliffordu]

107. we can sure try.

[Dennis Donovan]

5. They're very cool, that's for sure...

You should be ashamed of yourself! ;)

[xchrom]

6. That was weird. Nt

[Liberal Veteran]

7. It's not only wrong....it's as evil as Dick Cheney!

You should mail it to me and so none of that evil gets on you.

:P

[hlthe2b]

8. Yes....

You should send it to me for proper disposal... Without delay. ;)





Seriously, though, I understand how you feel. I try to keep the ratio of non-consumables: consumables as low as possible. No more impulsive purchases. But, if an Ipad is making you a more productive person or bringing you great pleasure and you work hard to be "green," to conserve, and be socially responsible in other areas of you life, I shall grant you absolution.

[DavidDvorkin]

9. Owning anything made by Apple is wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. And Dell and Micrisoft

and HP and the rest of them. They USE the SAME EXACT COMPANY... FOXCON

[DavidDvorkin]

25. My opinion has nothing to do with Foxcon

Apple sucks mightily.

Or, to be more specific, the Mac OS sucks mightily.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Ah the OS stupid wars

Gotcha!!!!

[Jakes Progress]

41. Yep. They are easier to sucker than a gun nut.

Dangle a Mac post and they break their jaws with their mighty knee jerk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. And the funny thing is

we are a multi OS family. Here we get it, they all have their strengths and their weaknesses.

[Jakes Progress]

47. But, but. If my OS isn't god blessed

then, then, then. Where oh where will I find identity and purpose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Oh blessed be Mint

Or was it Ubuntu (That usually pisses off both the Unix, err OS X and Windows users!)

:hi:

[TommyO]

93. Let's see

OSX? check!
Windows XP? Check!
Windows Vista? Check!
Windows 7? Check!
iOS? Check!

Now mind you, we only have two computers, Vista is running on one of them, the Mac runs OSX, XP, and Windows 7 via Parallels and Bootcamp. None of them are perfect, all of them have their place.

The iPod Touch is running iOS, and eventually I see an iPad in our future, though not immediately (maybe before the next trip to Florida though).

[emulatorloo]

35. Use the OS you like and stop terrorizing the rest of us.

If I suck so much that I like Mac OS X, let me live in peace. Seriously it can't matter to you,

[DavidDvorkin]

38. Terrorizing?

Wow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Well it goes like this

you want me to sing the praises of Ubuntu? Some people find it bothersome that like clockwork some folks feel superior about what OS they happen to use. For the record this is part of the stupid OS wars...

<------- been using these things when command language was fun, your Word Processor needed all kind of funky commands, and damn it you set the number of pages to open with command line in the background. Yes that's how you sped the damn system. So please, I have a clue on the advantages and disadvantages of different OS's and none is superior... you don't like an OS, that is your taste. Hell, there are some people who have not left Windows 95, which I admit, WAS a beaut.

So here is the short translation. Some folks find it bothersome when people go YOU ARE AN IDIOT FOR USING (Insert OS here). Got it now?

Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,
Stupid OS wars,

[blondeatlast]

51. GREAT TASTE! nt

[onehandle]

79. LESS FILLING! nt

[onehandle]

80. Moses delivers another one. nt

[DavidDvorkin]

114. Moses?

[LanternWaste]

88. Coke vs. Pepsi.

Coke vs. Pepsi.

We like what we like, and do our best to minimize other options.

[HughMoran]

60. lol

:rofl:

oh no you di'int!

[onehandle]

78. Thanks, Moses. nt

[stanwyck]

83. If loving Apple products is wrong, I don't want to be right n/t

[fascisthunter]

112. are you kidding me?

it's a product... that's all

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[panader0]

13. I just bought a new Washburn guitar

Made in China. My guilt slowly faded as I began to play it. When I went to buy decent new strings for it, I could find no strings that weren't made in China. C'mon America, I'll pay for USA made products (are there any left?)

[BrentWil]

14. Parts of the IPad are... Others aren't.... it is all world made now NT

[TheKentuckian]

15. It carries some taint for sure. We shouldn't be subsidizing our toys

at the expense of our fellow American workers, exploited workers world wide, or putting it on Mother Nature's revolving credit line either.

I'm not finger wagging since I'm also on a piece of technology too. Just acknowledging some of the real costs beyond a few hundred bucks.

Paying a little more for some of the stuff and resources we use would make a better world if the wealth was spread.

[BrentWil]

17. Would people have Ipads then? NT

[TheKentuckian]

33. Probably, people just wouldn't update yearly or whatever

and maybe we'd start repairing stuff again and making items with less planned obsolescence.

The system is becoming less sustainable all the time just by making everything less modular.

We should be upgrading processors, adding ram, and updating video at least a couple times before we need a whole new system. Manufacturers hold back and know what's next before you leave the store.

[pnwmom]

16. Yes, it is. So you should send it to me. n/t

[Touchdown]

18. I'm posting this on an iPad I bought with my money

I donate to DU monthly, have my charities, and generally try to be a good citizen. I also love this thing and use it every day. I stopped caring after the 100th Apple hater pretended to be a good world citizen while brow beating me.

[BrentWil]

20. As far as a product goes, it is wonderful. I am no hater. NT

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. +1

[stray cat]

19. You could argue not selling everything you own to give to the poor is wrong

[gmoney]

21. NO...

Don't let the guilt-mongers get the better of you, or be prepared to get rid of 95% of the stuff you own.

Enjoy it. If you must feel liberal guilt, consider that its purchase is helping the Chinese economy crush us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Just as "wrong" as my Samsung Netbook

the economy we live in makes it almost functionally impossible to do this more responsibly. And before people say it, NO WE DO NOT LIVE IN A CAPITALIST ECONOMY. We live in a form of corporate run COMMAND economy.

[BrentWil]

24. Is there another economy in which the IPad would be a product? NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. There could be

but you would also have to ask if we would be so dependent on oil, which your and my electronics depend on...

but there could be... the Ipad, as magnificent as it is, is actually the third attempt at slates. I had one of the early ones, an HP in 2001... and they were still part of a command economy. Once you read how demand is created, you realize that the IPAD (Or any other slates) are created to fill a need that does not exit, but you and I are made to believe that we need them.

[BrentWil]

29. We don't need 95 percent of what we own. NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. And that is consumerism at it's best

why this has become a command economy where we think we need stuff we truly don't.

These days I do the number... I like (insert product here), but I have something similar, so these days I walk away.

by the way I did consider an IPAD for my mom (don't ask brother and a win machine that on schedule has issues)

So we are sending a Mac Mini for her to use. She strictly does not need it, since she has a win machine, but there are reasons why it will make her life easier.

[cliffordu]

71. Yep. Apt description, yours.

[Moochy]

27. Are you sure it's not your iPhone?

You might be very very small at the moment? :shrug:

[BrentWil]

32. What?

[Moochy]

34. you'd be very tiny if this were an iphone

[USArmyParatrooper]

30. The main reason you should buy an IPad

I own stock in Apple.

[NuttyFluffers]

36. if you think like that might as well be an extreme Jaina; your very existence is wrong.

you can always wear a filtration mask, or even better, stop breathing, you're killing microbes! :evilgrin:

now i'm off to commit wholesale slaughter upon earth's luscious expanse like Godzilla... except i'll be laying down sipping a soft drink while playing my gameboy DS, mwa ha ha ha!
:insert godzilla smilie here:

[BrentWil]

39. the Apple IPad is globalization... Yet DU seems okay with it

[customerserviceguy]

37. Dude, are you Catholic?

I've only seen that level of guilt from someone who was chased by nuns with rulers!

[BrentWil]

42. Are you for Globalization? NT

[customerserviceguy]

54. Huh?

You just seem to be awfully damned guilt ridden, that's all. And I'm OK with having people around the world make the products and foods that I consume. I really don't have that much against them.

[Touchdown]

49. LOL!

Good one!

[customerserviceguy]

55. Thanks

My first and second grade nuns were travel agents for guilt trips!

[H2O Man]

43. Is Lonnie Anderson's hair immoral?

[Rebubula]

86. Maybe...maybe not...

...but my thoughts pertaining to her in the late 70s would be considered so by many.

Oh...well...even more so for Bailey. Love the librarian\glasses look...

[H2O Man]

115. At last!

I know that many DUers are afraid to confront the most serious issue facing our nation -- indeed, our universe -- today. Thank you.

[Moochy]

45. iFlame App works great!

Also the Broadbrush App too, apparently :evilgrin:
ok 'iTroll' in the subject would have gotten this deleted.

[AnArmyVeteran]

50. If you can use it for good then how can that be wrong?

[BrentWil]

52. What did it take to make it and get it to me?

[customerserviceguy]

56. The same thing can be said for everything in your life

Unless you live in a cave, and walk to where you pick wild berries to survive on, then you can feel just as guilty about the gas in your car, the car itself, the house where you live, the means of transporting your food from a farm to your market, and the way you get your income.

All of the above involves the expenditure of fossil fuel energy, and the potential exploitation of someone's labor (that they've voluntarily agreed to sell). Even your posts use energy, both for you to put up here, and for us to read them.

[AnArmyVeteran]

58. Yeah, I see both sides, but if you use it for the good of others it could help others.

Since China has virtually no rights for workers everything coming from there can be deemed as exploitive to any buyer of the product. It doesn't matter if it's a toaster, DVD or an ipad. You could argue anyone buying anything from China or a third world country is exploitive. But it's getting harder and harder to fing any manufactured item that wasn't made by oppressed people.

I don't know what the answer is other than a total boycott by the American people. But what we should be demading are worker's rights for any goods imported into our country. But in the 1990s democrats in congress tried to force offshore companies to raise the standard of living for foreign workers. But the evil Tom Delay personally sabotagued the democrat's efforts because he supported companies who used slave labor, including child labor, to make their products. He even was against stopping companies from using sweatshops and subjecting girls and women to prostitution.

But Tom Delay is a good 'family values' 'Christian' so everything is okay to conservatives. They don't care how they make their money or how many human beings they abuse or kill during the production of their products.

We need to pressure the democratic congress and our president to stop the abuse of others by forcing all companies to ahere to US safety and wage standards to protect workers in other countries. That is something we can all do and you can use you ipad to constantly write to every congress person and the president until foreign workers are protected.

[Stevenmarc]

53. Yes it's wrong, send it to me I'll be happy to relive you of your heavy burden.

[xultar]

57. ************ATTENTION IPAD DUERS*********

Let's talk iPad @ the iPad forums .net!

I wanna talk iPad without a political bent.

Or we can meet @ the iPhone blog foru,s .com

Look fir me, I have the same username!

[Socal31]

59. Yes, because you could have gotten a notebook pretty much the same price.

[BrentWil]

63. The notebook would have had the same cost to labor and the environment NT

[readmoreoften]

61. No consumer solution is possible. 99.9% of objects sold are made in oppressive conditions.

Only worker, farmer, and soldier uprisings/strikes on a global scale and the bottom-up, democratic restructuring of nations will stop iPads and coffee pots and windows and heaters and clothes and food from being the output of slaves. "Buying green" is a solution that only the rich can indulge in. And any solution that excludes the masses isn't a solution.

[Mimosa]

64. Are any computers made in the USA?

My partner has been using Mac systems since 1990 so it's just what we know and use. I'd switch when this Macbook gets ancient if there is an American made alternative.

[BrentWil]

74. No.. not totally at least. IS it a moral stand that we must take? Not buy products that

are environmentally damaging or have any components that are made by labor that is badly treated?

[Toasterlad]

65. Yes. The iPad Is DIrectly Responsible For the Gulf Oil Spill.

[BrentWil]

67. Do I own anything that isn't? NT

[Toasterlad]

76. Do You Own a Rush "Fly By Night" Cassette Tape? Then, Yes.

If not, then no.

[blogslut]

66. Sell it and give the proceeds to charity

:)

[onehandle]

68. All electronics are subject to these sins. But Apple has the greenest products out there. nt

[BrentWil]

72. And that is "good enough"? How much are their workers making in China?NT

[onehandle]

77. I trust that your computer is made from twigs and berrries?

Collected from your nearby woods.

Surely you aren't using electronics made by third-world slave labor.

[BrentWil]

91. Did you read my OP? I am asking if it is okay.

[onehandle]

94. Sorry, I missed that. Here's my answer...

I am so used to people bashing Apple out of the blue that I read your OP incorrectly.

My answer. You already have the device. Whatever damage/labor injustices that may have been involved in its creation are done. As far as future environmental impacts, Apple's devices are very, very green. See here in the lower left hand of the page: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

If you don't use the iPad that you received as a gift, someone else will. It's a nice gift. Why not you? And if you use something else instead, as I said before, all electronics are made in the third world by underpaid, overworked labor.

I would feel better using a highly green Apple product than, for example, a Dell product. Steve Jobs supports Democrats personally and Apple seldom participates in lobbying. They put a fraction of what Dell, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google into politicians pocket. Michael Dell (again for example) is way into Republican coffers.

Feel bad for the world. Work for the world, but don't feel guilty for this one little item.

[Dappleganger]

69. Of course not.

Accept the gift in the spirit it was given.

[cliffordu]

73. living in a world where there are soo many poor is wrong.

You know what to do.

[Xenotime]

75. No. Apple is a very environmental friendly company

[meegbear]

81. Yes

[L0oniX]

82. Owning it isn't bad. Using one is. Ipads don't kill people ...Ipad users do.

[Touchdown]

101. It appears not fast enough.

;)

[redqueen]

84. Is this more about exploitation... or need vs. want?

I think everyone could stand to do a little more introspection re: needs vs. wants.

[Rebubula]

85. Geez...

...what a dumb question.

In a world with so many poor...is it wrong to:

Enjoy movies?
Eat and drink good food?
Watch TV on my 46' HD set?
Go to sporting events?
Take a hot shower twice in one day?
Share my leftovers with my dog?
Fap to Internet porn (If that is wrong....well...so be it)?

Etc.....

Unrecced for silly guilt.

[BrentWil]

89. Don't must of those require globalization and labor to be abused?

Movies? How is film made. What is the income disparity between Tom Hanks and a cameraman?
Food? How far did it come from? What type of labor was used to produce it? By good food, do you mean something locally grown?
TV? Where was it produced?
Shower twice? How much carbon does that ad?

[LanternWaste]

87. In the here and now...

In the here and now, I imagine that on a practical level it's almost impossible to maintain consumerism (regardless of what the product is) without acting as an indirect enabler of regressive and repressive worker conditions somewhere in the world.

At the end of the day, I imagine one must rely on one's own judgment on any cost/benefit ratio.

[BrentWil]

90. What is the cost of the IPad? What is the environmental and labor cost of it? NT

[LanternWaste]

92. Again I think it comes down to how...

I don't know. Again I think it comes down to how, at the end of the day we feel about the personal choices we ourselves make.

I imagine that if it's important to you, you could research your own query and find the beginnings of a solution, and then see if that solution (along with its concomitant ethical practices) fits within your own moral framework and find your answer there... :shrug:

[Taverner]

96. Yes. In fact doing anything pleasurable is wrong.

If you can sit and enjoy that glass of tea while millions are starving then YOU ARE A CALLOUS, HEARTLESS BASTARD!!!!

:sarcasm:

[BrentWil]

97. Should you not do a little thought about the tea and food you buy?

To ensure it is local and impacts the environment as least as possible

[Taverner]

98. You should - but it would be impossible to not patronize all unethical corporations

Chances are, if you drive a car, you patronized unethical corporations, nations and terrorists

Same goes for paying for any form of plastic. And don't even get me started on jewelry.

[BrentWil]

102. If it isn't required to live, isn't the moral response not to do it.. unless needed?

[Taverner]

104. No its not

Taking an austerity vow helps NO ONE

No jobs come out of austerity
No food for families

As socialist as I am, I know money needs to change hands...

Read about the early days of Modern Israel and their austerity program. Everyone rationed everything, and the idea was to limit consumption to survival measures only. One might think that the much needed savings happened, but they didn't, and in fact it made things worse.

[BrentWil]

105. Did I mention not worrying about food? But why an IPad?

Why have these devices? Why not do some thought about how you live and be willing to make the needed sacrifices?

[Taverner]

106. We, at least in the US, are an information driven society

Yes, you could impose austerity and only buy an old used computer running Windows 95, but why?

If you have the means, and the will (I do not) then get one.

Sacrifice for sacrifice's sake is illogical - there is no gain to come of it.

[BrentWil]

99. Okay, time to drop the devil's advocate...

Globalization has provided a tremendous benefit for mankind. It has lifted millions out of poverty in places like China and India. In total, it is a good thing. However, there are negative aspects that need to be handled in a thoughtful way. That is the true progressive position, I believe.

However, the point of the thread was to point out the logical end of many who preach against globalization and capitalism.

[LanternWaste]

110. You're very clever.

"However, the point of the thread was to point out the logical end of many who preach against globalization and capitalism."


You're very clever. :eyes:

[BrentWil]

116. Awwww... The little eye roll.

But I did think it was a clever way to make a point. The Democratic party is a party that supports Captalism. The major difference in that area and the GOP is that we support it but understand there is a downside.

[backscatter712]

100. By those standards, not doing wrong is nearly impossible.

Everything from iPods to cell phones to bicycles to toys is made in 3rd world country by factories that treat their workers like slaves.

Just do the best you can.

Me, I'm riding my bike around a hell of a lot more than I used to - the weather's nice, I need the exercise, BP doesn't need my gas money...

I even bought a saddlebag and rear-rack for my bike so I could use it for grocery shopping.

[BrentWil]

103. Impossible or will it just hamper your standard of living? NT

[jgraz]

108. As an iPad/iPhone developer, I can say -- with no bias whatsoever -- that..

owning only *one* is definitely wrong. :D

[AtomicKitten]

109. The only thing wrong about that is that I don't have one. ;)

[BrentWil]

121. Isn't that right, actually? Equality means that. NT

[mdmc]

111. Owning an IPad won't get ya into heaven

so it depends on what you think is wrong..

[BrentWil]

120. Neither will owning anything NT

[RedCloud]

113. Of course its wrong to own anything, except your soul.

[treestar]

117. One could argue that they'd be even poorer without the market for

what they make.

It is not an easy question, but there seems no other way for people to rise than to start at the bottom rung somehow.

[BrentWil]

119. Actually that is my argument NT

[Brewman_Jax]

118. Yes

now REPENT, SINNER!


:silly: