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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:42 PM
Original message
Death to cell phones.
My friend is a cell phone junky. We'll be talking, the monster rings, she snatches it up in one swift, flawless move, and proceeds to talk ... endlessly.

I've told her that electromagnetic waves are munching on her brain. I've explained that they use "cute" rings to torture people at Gitmo. I've informed her that lab mice left near cell phones can't distinguish brie from Velveeta.

Well, at least she doesn't use one of those Borg-implant earpieces. If she ever loses that phone, she'll have a breakdown. Someone suggested that if I really wanted to talk to her, I should just call her. Maybe I'll get a group together to perform an intervention. Or an exorcism.

What was wrong with smoke signals? Or semaphore flags? What the world needs now is a rehab for cell phone addicts.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I refused to get one until about 2 years ago ...
... and now I only turn it on once a week to check for messages (of which there are generally none).
Nobody calls my home phone either, because they know I won't answer it.

I don't like to talk :freak: so totally do not understand people who won't/can't shut up.

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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. I got a cell phone about 6 years ago.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 02:23 PM by CrispyQGirl
I use it for outgoing calls only. I was at work one day & my boss was giving me directions on a project. My cell phone rang. I said, "You can get that if you want," assuming it was his phone. He said, "I think it's yours." I said, "No one calls me on this phone!" It was a wrong number. ;)

I think voice mail is the most wonderful thing -- if only more people would use it!! I don't care how boring, mundane or inoffensive it is, I don't want to listen to other people's private conversations while I'm standing in line at the post office. And the people who expect a store clerk to conduct business with them while they are on their cell phone. That is just rude.

on edit: clarification
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. I pity those people
They are lonely or of low self esteem, and the only validation for their existence is when someone calls them, someone is thinking of them. When was the last time you took a plane ride? As soon as it lands, there come the cell phones at a speed that, I think, exceed that of pulling a cigarette. This is an addiction like any other.

And I think that it is very rude to take pictures of people in public places - whether with a camera or with cell phones.

On the Lounge someone complained about being listened to while at a coffee shop. Sometimes I wonder what will happen if I take a notepad and start writing every word that someone in public, in the airport, in the store is talking.

I sometimes think it is futile for anyone to complain about privacy, when most people apparently don't care. The whole world can hear what they say on their cell phone, they have their own web pages... their whole life is open to the world.

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
101. overheardinnewyork.com -- eom
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
68. I'm with you. I have one but basically for
emergencies. I would never pick the damn thing up to just yak with somebody. I don't do that at home much either.

When I was at the dentist recently, the receptionist said they were updating their records and needed my cell number. When I said I rarely even turn the thing on, she looked at me like I've got two heads.

My 14-year-old is an entirely different story. The thing is practically sewn onto her hand. She texts her friends constantly. One day I took her and two others out to dinner and things were awfully quiet across the table. All three were fiddling with their phones. When I asked what they were doing, they admitted they were texting each other. It's apparently reached the point where kids no longer know how to communicate with each other except by way of an electronic device. How pitiful is that?
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #68
92. Silence from a 14-year-old?
Thats a gift!
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
115. Yep, got one a year ago myself.
Never had a desire for one, but now that I live where few people know English, I can call my wife to help me if I get lost.

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, I've gotta give this one a K&R!
"Borg-implant earpieces" :rofl: Good name for 'em... those things are creepy.

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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. Borg-implant earpieces? I thought they were mutations from eating GMOs. nt
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes to rehab, no to the death of cell phones
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Agreed. I have a chronic illness and mine has been invaluable in emergencies.
I hate talking on the phone in general, more so on the cell, but when I need it, it is very reassuring to know I can get help in an emergency.

I saw my next-door neighbor get in her car, turn on the engine, and immediately DIAL a numebr though. Effing idiocy, if you ask me.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm onboard with ya Mate
In yesterday's paper there was one of those one square comics (don't recall which one) and the board chairman is on the phone along with everyone else at the table and he says "I guess you are wondering why I called you all together."

I don't have one, don't want one. I refer to them as a leash. I think they are incredibly useful as a business tool but for socializing and airing your business to everyone within earshot, give it up.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think there are any real studies that show GSM signals to be harmful to the human brain
at least I haven't seen any and I work with GSM modems on a regular basis.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. There is at least one animal study
which found evidence of neuronal damage, and several report significant increases on oxidative stress.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. My point was mostly for the human brain
Edited on Wed May-09-07 05:03 PM by Pawel K
People seem to think that because a phone is by your head it is doing more damage to you. The fact is these signals are out there already being beamed from cell towers around your home and work, because you don't happen to talk on the cell phone doesn't mean you are any less exposed than people that do.

But you are right, I have seen studies where about 2% of rats that were exposed to GSM signals of 0.1 watts or greater (an average cell phone operates on 0.5watts) died from brain damage.

They need to do studies on wether or not this is killing our bees as if it is able to kill rats it might very well be able to kill large populations of bees. If that turns out to be the case I wonder if people will give up their GSM cell phones or instead say that these studies are myths promoted by Al Gore.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Thanks for the open dialogue!
In fairness, roughly half of the studies I've seen regarding cell phones find no deleterious effect. The other half does find damage, and sometimes the nature of the damage is very surprising.

I think the jury is still out, and there needs to be more research. Cell phones aren't going away. If they have to be here, they should be as safe to use as possible.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
89. There is a big difference about whether you are at the receiver end
and at that point the electromagnetic fields (EMFs) are much stronger. If you take a tri-field meter you can easily see this. If you hold a cell phone up to your head you get blasted, but if you hold it a couple of feet away and use the speaker phone you limit the levels of exposure. If you use an earpiece with a 4 ft thin wire plugged into the cell which you can place 4 ft away from you -- you limit the exposures even more.

The rat brain is biochemically almost identical to the human brain and is ideal for testing. The item I posted that appears at the bottom of this thread shows actual photos of DNA damage to rat brains after only hours of EMF exposure.

Also -- there was a Swedish study on damage to brains that was duplicated.

Most interesting is the discussion of effects on blood-brain barrier
and the leaching of albumin from the capillaries into the brain (see quote
directly below -- along with part of the original article).

Studies on such topics are actively suppressed in the U.S. Or... they are designed by industry to show
"weak" or uncertain results -- therefore making the topic controversial. This is a strategy to maintain
business as usual -- literally.

QUOTE FROM DOCUMENT: "In a recent in-vitro study it has been shown that EMF at 1.8 GHz increases the permeability to sucrose of the BBB (Schirmacher et al. 2000)."

PLEASE NOTE: " BBB" stands for "Blood Brain Barrier.

************
Subject: Cellphones Kill Brain Cells

Environmental Health Perspectives Volume 111, Number 7, June 2003 < Citation[br />in PubMed ] < Related Articles>

Nerve Cell Damage in Mammalian Brain after Exposure to Microwaves from GSM
Mobile Phones

Leif G. Salford,1 Arne E. Brun,2 Jacob L. Eberhardt,3 Lars Malmgren,4 and
Bertil R. R. Persson3

1Department of Neurosurgery, 2Department of Neuropathology, 3Department of
Medical Radiation Physics, and 4Department of Applied Electronics, Lund
University, The Rausing Laboratory and Lund University Hospital, Lund,
Sweden

EHP-in-Press

Abstract
The possible risks of radio-frequency electromagnetic fields for the human
body is a growing concern for our society. We have previously shown that
weak pulsed microwaves give rise to a significant leakage of albumin
through the blood-brain barrier. In this study we investigated whether a
pathologic leakage across the blood-brain barrier might be combined with
damage to the neurons. Three groups each of eight rats were exposed for 2
hr to Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) mobile phone
electromagnetic fields of different strengths. We found highly significant
(p < 0.002) evidence for neuronal damage in the cortex, hippocampus, and
basal ganglia in the brains of exposed rats. Key words: blood-brain
barrier, central nervous system, microwaves, mobile phones, neuronal
damage, rats. Environ Health Perspect 111:881-883 (2003).
doi:10.1289/ehp.6039 available via


http://dx.doi.org/



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address correspondence to L.G. Salford, Dept. of Neurosurgery, Lund
University Hospital, S-221 85 Lund, Sweden. Telephone: 46-46-171270. Fax:
46-46-188150. E-mail: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
We thank S. Strömblad and C. Blennow at the Rausing Laboratory for
excellent technical assistance.

The work was supported by a grant from the Swedish Council for Work Life
Research.

The authors declare they have no conflict of interest.

Received 4 October 2002; accepted 28 January 2003.


Last Updated: May 5, 2002

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Page 6

5Introduction The largest human biological experiment ever. So has the
voluntary exposure of the brain to microwaves from handheld mobile phones
by one fourth of the world’s population been called (Salford et
al.2001).Within the near future microwaves will be emitted also by an
abundance of other appliances in the cordless office and also in the home.
The possible risks of radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (RF) for the
human body, is a growing concern for the society. For a review see Hyland
(Hyland 2000). Most researchers in the field have dwelled on the question
whether RF may induce or promote cancer growth. Some have indicated
increased risk (Hardell et al.2002; Repacholi et al.1997) while most
studies including our own have shown no effects (Salford et al.1997a) or
even a decreased risk (Adey et al.1999) The possible risks of microwaves
for the human body has attracted interest since the 1960-ies, e.g. before
the advent of mobile phones, when radar and microwave ovens posed a
possible health problem. Oscar and Hawkins early performed studies on
effects of RF upon the BBB (Oscar and Hawkins1977). They demonstrated that
at very low energy levels (< 10 W/m2), the fields in a restricted exposure
window caused a significant leakage of 14C mannitol, innulin and also
dextran (same molecular weight as albumin) from the capillaries into the
surrounding cerebellar brain tissue. These findings, however, were not
repeated in a study using 14C-sucrose (Gruenau 1982). In a recent in-vitro
study it has been shown that EMF at 1.8 GHz increases the permeability to
sucrose of the BBB (Schirmacher et al. 2000). Shivers (Shivers et al.1987;
Prato et al.1990) examined the effect of MRI upon the rat brain. They
showed that the combined exposure to RF, pulsed and static magnetic fields
gave rise to a significant pinocytotic transport of albumin from the
capillaries into the brain. Inspired by this work, our group has since 1988
studied the effects of different intensities and modulations of 915 MHz RF
in a rat model where the exposure takes place in a TEM-cell during various
time periods. In series of more than 1600 animals, we have proven that
subthermal energies from both pulse-modulated and continuous RF fields –
including
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Page 7
6those from real GSM mobile phones - have the potency to significantly open
the BBB for the animals´ own albumin (but not fibrinogen) to pass out into
the brain and to accumulate in the neurons and glial cells surrounding the
capillaries (Malmgren1998; Persson et al.1997; Persson and Salford 1996;
Salford et al.1992, 1993, 1994, 1997b, 2001) (fig 1). These results are
duplicated recently in another laboratory (Töre et al. 2001). Similar
results are found by others (Fritze et al.1997). We and others (Oscar and
Hawkins1977; Persson et al.1997) have pointed out that when such a
relatively large molecule as albumin may pass the BBB, also many other
smaller molecules, including toxic ones, may escape into the brain due to
the exposure to RF. We have hitherto not concluded that such leakage is
harmful for the brain. It is shown by Hassel, however, that autologous
albumin injected into the brain tissue of rats, leads to damage to neurons
at the injection site when the concentration of albumin in the injected
solution is at least 25% of that in blood (Hassel et al.1994). In the
present study, we have investigated whether leakage over the BBB might
cause damage to the neurons. Material and Methods A Transverse
Electromagnetic transmission line cell (TEM-cell) used for the RF exposure
of rats was designed by dimensional scaling from previously constructed
cells at the National Bureau of Standards (Crawford1974). TEM-cells are
known to generate uniform electromagnetic fields for standard measurements.
A genuine GSM mobile phone with a programmable power output is connected
via a coaxial cable to the TEM-cell. No voice modulation was applied. The
cell is enclosed in a wooden box (15 x 15 x 15 cm) that supports the outer
conductor and central plate. The outer conductor is made of brass-net and
is attached to the inner walls of the box. The centre plate, or septum, is
constructed of aluminium.
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Page 8
7The TEM-cells are placed in a temperature-controlled room and the
temperature in the TEM-cells kept constant by circulating room air through
holes in the wooden box. The SAR-distribution in the rat brain has been
simulated with the FDTD-method (Martens et a. 1993) and found to vary less
than 6 dB in the rat brain. The rats are placed in plastic trays (12 x 12 x
7 cm) to avoid contact with the central plate and outer conductor. The
bottom of the tray is covered with absorbing paper to collect urine and
faeces. Thirty-two male and female Fischer 344 rats aged 12 - 26 weeks and
weighing 282 ± 91 g were divided into 4 groups of each 8 rats. The peak
output power from the GSM mobile telephone fed into two TEM-cells
simultaneously for 2 hours were 10 mW, 100 mW and 1000 mW per cell,
respectively. This exposed the rats to peak power densities of 0.24. 2.4
and 24 W/m2, respectively. This exposure resulted in average whole-body
specific absorption rates (SAR) of 2 mW/kg, 20 mW/kg and 200 mW/kg,
respectively. For further details about exposure conditions and SAR
calculations, see (Martens et al. 1993; Malmgren 1998). The fourth group of
rats was simultaneously kept for 2 hours in non-activated TEM-cells. The
animals were awake during the exposure and could move and turn within the
exposure chamber. The animals in each exposure group were allowed to
survive for about 50 days after exposure. They were carefully observed
daily for neurological or behavioural abnormalities during this period at
the end of which they were anaesthetized and sacrificed by
perfusion-fixation with 4% formaldehyde. The brains were removed from the
skull by non-traumatic technique (resection of bone structures at the skull
base, followed by a midline incision from the foramen magnum to the
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Page 9
8nose) after an extended in situ post mortem fixation time of 30 minutes.
Each brain was sectioned coronally in 1-2 mm thick slices, which all were
embedded in paraffin and cut at 5 micrometer, stained for RNA/DNA with
cresyl violet to show dark neurons. Applying albumin antibodies
(Dakopatts), albumin is revealed as brownish spotty or more diffuse
discolorations (Figs 1a and b). The microscopical analysis was performed
blind to the test situation. The occurrence of “dark neurons” was judged
semi-quantitatively by the neuropathologist as 0 (no or occasional dark
neurons), 1 (moderate occurrence of dark neurons) or 2 (abundant
occurrence). The Kruskal Wallis one-way analysis of variance by ranks was
used for a simultaneous statistical test of the score distributions for the
4 exposure conditions. When the null hypothesis could be rejected,
comparisons between controls and each of the exposure conditions was made
with the Mann-Whitney non-parametric test for independent samples. Results
and discussion Controls and test animals alike showed the normal diffuse
positive immuno-staining for albumin in hypothalamus, a kind of built-in
method control. Control animals showed either no or an occasional and often
questionable positivity for albumin outside the hypothalamus. In one animal
a moderate amount of dark neurons were observed while in all the other
animals no such change was present. Exposed animals usually showed several
albumin positive foci around the finer blood vessels in white and gray
matter. Here the albumin had spread in the tissue in between the cell
bodies, and surrounded neurons, which were either free of albumin or in
some foci containing albumin. Also scattered neurons, not associated with
albumin leakage between the neurons, were positive.
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Page 10
9The cresyl violet staining revealed scattered and grouped dark neurons,
which were often shrunken and dark staining, homogenised with loss of
discernible internal cell structures. Some of these dark neurons were also
albumin positive or showed cytoplasmic microvacuoles indicating an active
pathological process. There were no haemorrhages and no discernible glial
reaction, astrocytic or microglial, adjacent to changed neurons. Changed
neurons were seen in all locations, but especially the cortex, hippocampus
and basal ganglia, mixed in among normal neurons (fig 2). The percentage
abnormal neurons is roughly appreciated to be maximally around 2 %, but in
some restricted areas dominated the picture. The occurrence of dark neurons
under the different exposure conditions is shown in figure 3 which shows a
significant positive relation between EMF dosage (SAR) and number of dark
neurons. A combined non-parametric test for the 4 exposure situations
simultaneously revealed that the distributions of scores differed
significantly between the groups (p<0.002). We present here for the first
time evidence for neuronal damage caused by non-thermal microwave exposure.
The cortex as well as the hippocampus and the basal ganglia in the brains
of exposed rats contain damaged neurons. We realise that our study
comprises few animals, but the combined results are highly significant and
exhibit a clear dose-response relation. The observed dark neurons are
deemed not to be artefacts for the following reasons. The brains were
perfusion fixed in situ and removed atraumatically. The dark neurons were
intermingled with normal appearing neurons (see fig 2a,b). Further, the
presence of vacuoles in several of the dark neurons is a clear sign that
damage occurred in the living animal. We cannot exclude that the neuronal
change described may represent apoptotic cell death. The neuronal albumin
uptake and other changes described would seem to indicate a serious
neuronal damage, which may be mediated through organelle damage with
release of
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Page 11
10not only hydrolytic lysosomal enzymes but also e.g. sequestered harmful
material, such as heavy metals, stored away in cytoplasmatic organelles
(lysosomes).The time between last exposure and sacrifice is of great
importance for the detection of foci of leakage since extra-vasated albumin
rapidly diffuses down to, and beyond, concentrations possible to
demonstrate accurately immunohistologically. However, the initial albumin
leakage into the brain tissue (seen within hours in about 40% of exposed
animals in our previous studies) may start a secondary BBB opening, leading
to a vicious circle – as we demonstrate albumin leakage even 8 weeks after
the exposure. The reason for our choice of 12 to 26 weeks old rats is that
they are comparable to human mobile phone addicted teen-agers with respect
to age. The situation of the growing brain might deserve special concern
from the society since biological and maturational processes are
particularly vulnerable. The intense use of mobile phones by youngsters is
a serious memento. A neuronal damage of the kind, here described, may not
have immediately demonstrable consequences, even if repeated. It may,
however, in the long run, result in reduced brain reserve capacity that
might be unveiled by other later neuronal disease or even the wear and tear
of ageing. We can not exclude that after some decades of (often), daily
use, a whole generation of users, may suffer negative effects maybe already
in their middle age.
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11Figure Legends Fig. 1 . (a) Slightly enlarged cross section of central
parts of the brain of an unexposed control rat, stained for albumin which
appears brownish in the central inferior parts of the brain, the
hypothalamus, a normal feature. In the left lower corner (arrow) a brown
spot representing an occasional focal leakage. (b) As (a) for an RF exposed
rat , stained for albumin , which appears brownish in multiple small foci
representing leakage from many vessels. Fig. 2. (a) Row of nerve cells in a
section of the pyramidal cell band of the hippocampus in a RF exposed rat.
Among the normal big and pale blue nerve cells there are interspersed black
and shrunken nerve cells, so called dark neurons . Microscopical picture
stained with Cresyl violet, high magnification (b) The cortex of an RF
exposed rat, showing normal nerve cells pale blue, intermingled with
abnormal, black and shrunken “ dark neurons “ at all depths of the cortex
but least in the superficial upper layers. Microscopical picture stained
with Cresyl violet, high magnification. Fig 3. Distribution of scores for
the occurrence of “dark neurons” as function of exposure condition. The
dotted line connects mean values for each condition. A simultaneous
non-parametric comparison of all 4 conditions revealed significant
differences (p<0,002). The p-values in the figure depict comparisons
between each experimental condition and controls.
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Page 13
12Reference List Adey W, Byus C, Cain C, Higgins R, Jones R, Kean C et al.
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using TEM transmission cells. IEEE Trans Elecromagn Compat EMC-16:189-195.
Fritze K, Sommer C, Schmitz B, Mies G, Hossman K, Kiessling M et al. 1997.
Effect of global system for mobile communication (GSM) microwave exposure
on blood-brain barrier permeability in rat. Acta Neuropathol (Berlin)
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13Malmgren L. 1998. Radio frequency systems for NMR- imaging-Coil
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14Interaction Mechanism of Low-Level Electromagnetic Fields in Living
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Èlectromagnétiques de Haute Fréquence. (Pietteur M, ed). Embog, Belgium.
141-152. Schirmacher A, Winters S, Fischer S, Goeke J, Galla HJ, Kullnick
U, et al. 2000. Electromagnetic fields (1.8 GHz) increase the permeability
to sucrose of the blood-brain barrier in vitro. Bioelectromagnetics 21:
338-345.
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15Shivers R, Kavaliers M, Teskey G, Prato F, Pelletier R. 1987. Magnetic
resonance imaging temporarily alters blood-brain barrier in the rat.
Neuroscience Letters 76:25-31. Töre F, Dulou P-E, Haro E, Veyret B,
Aubineau P. 2001. Two-hour Exposure to 2 W/kg, 900 MHz GSM microwaves
induces Plasma Protein Extravasation in Rat Brain. In: Proceedings from the
5th International Congress of the European Bioelectromagnetics Association,
6 September 2001 (Hietanen M, Jokela K, Juutilainen, J, eds). Finnish
Institute of Occupational Health, Helsinki , 43-45.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------(Shivers et al.1987;



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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #89
116. Replying to this so it will store it in "My DU"
I dont have time to read it now as I am at work so I want to be able to get back to this when I get home. Thanks for the post.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't people ever want to be alone anymore??? n/t
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. I finally broke down and got a tracfone.
I am in a wheelchair with a 25yr old lift van. I got the phone just in case I have a breakdown someplace because it takes an act of God to find a payphone. No one other than my husband has my cell number. I buy 60 minutes every 2 months to keep the service and in 8 months I've used 12 minutes TOTAL -- and nearly all of that was trying to figure out how to use the phone. :)


K&R.
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. shopping and talking
I remember when people used to buy groceries with endless consultations about "should I get the lima beans or the peas"? People can't buy a freakin' can of vegetables on their own?
People who use cell phones in a bookstore should be hung upside down naked and forced to read romance novels aloud until their brains melt. Be forewarned, if I see you yakkin' away at Borders, you will get a look that will freeze your blood to ice in 3 seconds flat, or so I've been told. Yeah, THAT look.
Once after a day long hike up to the top of St. Patricks mountain in Ireland, I was quietly enjoying the view and the accomplishment and suddenly heard someone screech LOUDLY into a cell phone "GUESS WHERE I AM?!...YEAH...!!!"
Cell phones. Hate them, absolutely hate them.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why is she your friend???
If I was visiting with my friend IN PERSON, and she kept answering her cell phone and talking to that person instead, I would excuse myself, leave and never return.
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Habibi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
124. Well, that's a bit harsh, but
it IS awfully rude to take a phone call when you're hanging out with somebody else, unless it's unavoidable. My mom taught me to say politely, "I'll have to call you back, I have company right now."

Sigh. I miss my mom.

Oh, and we only have a prepaid cell phone for emergencies.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'd rather gnaw off my arm than carry a phone around with me....
eom
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. You don't have to actually carry it
Just put it in a holder on your belt.

:bounce:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Totally agree. Cell Phone Addiction is HERE.
Remember when people used the excuse of getting them for "emergencies"? Just another way for the American consumer to 'disconnect' from life, while handing off their hard earned paychecks. All so they can interrupt movies, drive dangerously, and supposedly look KEWL.

I'm just waiting for the first person to sue their cell phone company because they were involved in a car accident, killed some kids - and then blamed their cellphone addiction. :sarcasm:
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. My problem with cell phones is that the dealers...
act in the same horrid manner that car dealers were notorious for some 40+ years ago.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. The rudeness of that act...
Ignoring the human being with whom you are engaged in conversation to instead devote your attention to an electronic signal is one of the most socially ungracious acts I can think of yet I see it every day. Like the store clerk taking the phone call instead of serving the customer there in person, it makes no sense except we have been trained to accept this nonsense as reasonable social behavior. Next time plan to simply walk away.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. All good dogs follow conditioned behavior when the bell rings. - n/t
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. you are mocking those with a constant need and desire to communicate on an internet discussion forum
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. maybe it was an ironic post?...and can you read DU on a cell?n/t
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
99. sure you can...
and you can pass along good threads to read for later, your favorite thread/comment of the day, etc...

:shrug:

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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. You have to remember for the cell phone haters, it's all "me, me, me"
As in "hey, I am right here, talk to me, to ME!" "why would you talk to someone on the phone, I am right here, you can't ignore me!" That's their favorite word.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
106. LOL!
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robbyrob79 Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I've been on the leash
for like 7 years now. I don't even have a landline phone anymore. I guess in my line of business (music), I'm not home all that often, and I need to be in contact with people all the time, so its more of a neccesity than anything else.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. And you have to be in contact with people all the time...WHY?
I don't know how old you are, but if you're over 25, what in the world did you do in the past?
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
54. Same here
I only have a cell phone, no landline. I would hate to miss out on a gig because somebody couldn't get in touch with me! Email is just as indispensable. When I can afford it, I will probably get one of those smartphones with email.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. A cell phone at a music performance -
The only time I every really went off on someone at gig I was playing was over a ringing cell phone. A quiet passage, an attentive audience, and some asshole let his annoying ringtone go on for about 30 seconds. I just told him, from the bandstand, to take that thing out of there right now. Boorish behavior has become almost the norm, it seems.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. Agree 100%
most amazingly pointless use of technology ever.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Cell-phone users are demon spawn. It's an invention of the devil. Evil!
Evil, I say! The make people rude, discourteous, and reckless. :grr:

I saw an apparently Italian-American woman driving an SUV in pre-rush hour traffic, talking on a cell-phone, holding it with her right hand and gesturing with her left hand!! :grr:

I saw a 12-year-old riding his bicycle therough a suburban intersection, oblvious to traffic and talking on a cell-phone!! :grr:

I could go on ... but it's useless. Stupid, stupid, stupid people! :grr:

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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. OK, we got the picture.
Now, go outside, lie down in the grass and have a glass of wine. Think soothing thoughts.

Relax.

:hide:
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. You could be right about the evil. Is it possible the cell is a Karl Rove plot?
Edited on Wed May-09-07 02:54 PM by Cyrano
I'm not sure, but it must have been somewhere around the year 2001 that cell phones came into wide usage. What better way for the Bushies to numb the mind of the populous while they carried out their nefarious deeds. Will no one stop these evil doers?
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Not evil, exactly.....
I think pre-invasion tools of an alien race, an advanced pod implantation device....just not as gross as the worm-like critter in Chekhov's ear in the Wrath of Khan.
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lazer47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. I started to say something,,,,, but I had to answer my sell phone
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. I despise the damned things.
If they have to exist, though, I really wish we could have some areas declared cell phone-free. Bank lines. Public transit. Cashiers at the checkout line. And, for god's sake, public restrooms.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. Sadly I have a friend like that too
And I actually have done what you were advised to do. I've called my friend from the same room whilst he was already on his phone, because it was like the sixth time it had gone off that afternoon and I was tired of it. He got the message :P
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. Sit at a stop light and pay attention to the number of drivers
on their cell phones.......it's amazing. Normally it seems men are on their phones in the morning and women in the afternoon. Without question using a cell phone while driving is a major distraction and frankly dangerous to other drivers....in particular if they are trying to dial a number.

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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. I started counting them one day
I was in the middle of running errands one day when I started noticed how many others were using cell phones. I started counting and I go to over 80 before I stopped. People were using them in cars (I sat next to one car with three people in it and they were all on cell phones), in the aisles of stores, in the check out line, walking up the street, pulling weeds in their yards, and bicycling.

I had a cell phone starting about fifteen years ago. I got it in case of emergencies. I had moved to a town 10 miles south of where I worked and attended school. I had a room mate with a heart condition and I originally got it to be in immediate contact with him. It was also cheaper for me to make calls on it than my land line. If I used my land line I was charged long distance for any call I placed outside my small rural city. At the time, Lawrence, KC and Topeka were all in my cell phone area so there were no long distance charges. It was a problem for me because I there were no local ISP dial-up numbers in my town. I was already up on the internet and I used it for school. Once I figured out I could use my land line to call my cell phone number (local call) and forward my cell phone to call ISP dial-up numbers in local cities I was able to stay home more often. I gave it up about 7 years ago when I moved back to Lawrence and was able to get broadband.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
104. And not just using the phone to make calls while
they're driving, but to send text messages which requires that attention be paid to the keypad. Unbelievable that the use of hand-held cellphones by the driver of a car isn't against the law everywhere.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. I cant stand cell phones.
I own one but I hardly ever use it.

One thing I'm getting absolutely sick of is every fucking time I watch the Daily Show anymore, at least half of the ads on there are for cell phone text-message services where you pay $29.99 / month to use text messaging. :argh:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm no fan of cell phones...
can't stand the self absorption I see with most people who use them constantly or who use them thoughtlessly while driving.

However, I must admit that I do have a prepaid phone myself...except it has no minutes on it right now and hasn't had any minutes on it for a couple of months. O8)

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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. my wife and I only got ours a few years ago
where we live the phone lines would go bad once a month and it was a real choir to get anyone to figure out who would repair it since now the lines are owned by so many companies , they always insisted it was out app wiring which it was not . Then to make matters worse try to find a public phone ,they all seemed to vanish .

I hate the things , everyone is always on one and I mean everyone ,add to this the insane musical rings or the phone on vibrate left on a desk top or drawer . Just like bombs and bullets and mass murder they will never go away now that they are here . Just take me back 30 years .
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Last week I had lunch with a friend, It's been a year since we had time to get together.
I took time off work to see her because it's been so long and I felt like I'd been neglecting the friendship. Twice during our lunch she answered her phone. The second time the connection was bad and she walked outside to have her conversation with the other person whoever. The first call was personal and it was 5 minutes, the second one was business and it was about 10 minutes.

Both of them, I'm sure, would have called back if she hadn't answered the phone. She has voice mail.

It was very disconcerting and disappointing. :(
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
85. I have a friend who has "call waiting" on her land line and
she's constantly interrupting our conversations to answer her other line. It's annoying as hell. She isn't running a business. She's home, and 99% of the time the other caller is one of her sisters just wanting to chat. And she'll take a few minutes to do it, and then expect me to be there when she gets back to me - like my time isn't worth anything.

The situation you described is all too common. When I'm with someone, especially someone I see infrequently, I like to give them my undivided attention. When the person I'm with is constantly answering the phone, I wonder why I bothered.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #85
103. "call waiting" should only be to let the person know you'll call them back
I have call waiting, and if I'm talking to a friend and a client calls, I get right back to the friend and explain I'll have to resume the call later. If I'm talking with a client, then I stay on the line with that person.

I'm like you, I want to give people my undivided attention, and that means whether I see them a lot or hardly ever. I'll get a cell phone someday, for emergency purposes, but until then, the less time on any phone, the better! :)
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'm a bit concerned about the connection to the disappearing bee population.
Talked to my son-in-law, a scientist, and he thinks that there could very well be a link. He says that if this is proven, they will probably just switch the phones to a different frequency. And if that doesn't work, the cell phone might be on the endangered list. Even though it is a huge money maker, the food industry brings in many more $ and will win out against the communications corporations. Bottom line, the almighty dollar, as in everything else.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
37. I hate these fucking things.
I keep mine in my car for emergencies only. I don't even know my cell phone number.


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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
38. I hate the reception in the US
it's great here...
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. Unless that call is life or death, it's pretty rude to have a full conversation if she's with you.
She could just let it go to voicemail, or just say "hey can I call you back later? I have company."
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. So Talk To Your Friend About Your Hurt Feelings And Leave Our Cell Phones Alone.
:nopity:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. "Our"?? Ah-hah! Suspicions confirmed.
The Borg!!!

:hide:

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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
76. LOL
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. There is this annoying fallacy that cell phone addicts use
as their defense. "You cell phone haters are just selfish, egotistical bastards who think you're so important I should devote my attention to you instead of the person on the other end of the phone." I call bullshit.

In simplest terms, cell phone use/abuse (it's hard to tell the difference these days, cell phone users can't seem to cross the street anymore without letting someone know about their monstrous travail) are one of the WORST sources of noise pollution. I don't like assholes riding around with their stereo and bass jacked all the way up. I similarly don't like being forced to endure the inane drivel that cell phone users feel is of utmost importance. Half of the damned conversations are "huh" and "whut," anyway.

Like many people, I appreciate the occasional moment of silence. Those are increasingly difficult to find as people continue to grow these mechanical devices out of their ears.

Cell phones are another of those unfortunate realities, like nuclear weapons and poly-chlorinated biphenyls. The cat's out of the bag, there's no putting it back. It would be nice, though, if some areas were simply declared off-limits to cell phones.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. They Annoy Me At Times Too. So Do Red Lights. I Just Simply Get Over It.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Where's the real OMC?
He usually shows common sense and logic....a rare combination and it makes his posts fun to read.

A red light is an annoying thing, but it's designed to preserve the general health and well being of the populace. It makes it easier for motorists to not run over school kids, for example?

There are instances where cell phones have actually been used in the midst of surgical procedures, saving lives. Generally, though, it's noise pollution. Tell me I'm wrong.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. How bizarre....
:grin:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. Fine. You're Wrong. See How Easy That Was?
Don't be so technical about the red light issue. It was one of a brazillion examples of things found to be annoying in life that one must either whine incessantly about or simply get over. I choose to get over them. To each their own. :rofl:
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. It's not a technicality.
If you were to choose to do so, you could divide "annoying things" into 2 categories: those which are necessary and those which are not. Sirens tend to be annoying, but necessary. Noise pollution, by definition, is annoying and NOT necessary.

Would you similarly say "get over it" with regard to:

1) the 2000 recount in Florida
2) Gonzalez's participation in the firing of attorney generals
3) the flying of the Confederate flag

Those are, as you put it, a few of "a brazillion examples of things found to be annoying in life that one must either whine incessantly about or simply get over."
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Sure It Was. And Even Now You Are Being Way Too Overly Technical. It's Cracking Me Up.
I mean, the way you so passionately defend your point by comparing the OBVIOUS and LAYMAN comparison I made by putting it under a microscope, dramatizing it to the nth degree and comparing it to things like the Gonzales fiasco, the 2000 recount or blatant racism is just too friggin funny! :rofl:

Seriously. Cracked me up. Holy cow. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. Pheh.
It could easily be argued that flying the Confederate flag is nothing like blatant racism, so I suspect you're being a bit presumptuous to assume everyone sees things in the same light as you do.

Moreover, you have yet to address the topic raised in the OP, except to mock and ridicule. Get back to me when you have a point to make.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Yawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn.
:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:


.....oh, and I made a point. My point was that he should just tell his friend his feelings were hurt and leave the cell phones alone, since no one respects melodrama. Geez. Pay attention.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #87
105. awwww, da po lil baby
Quiet everyone, he might say something worth listening to any minute now.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #52
82. You forgot to mention the LOUD and bad music that assaults us at every turn.
Know, I don't want to grocery shop and hear loud, bad 70's music. Nor do I want bad music in every public place where people are gathered. No silence anymore.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
41. My Brother!
I don't really have anything to do with my family. I haven't seen anyone with my DNA in over 15 years. However, I do still communicate by birthday cards with my brother. I love him. He's the only DNA relation I claim at all. He lives in Denver. He was just in a bad bad wreck...or I just found out about it from him, via email. It was a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, it was bad. Totaled his car and hurt him pretty badly. He's fine now or getting there. Still pretty banged up and sore.

(cover ears)

IT WAS A FUCKWAD TALKING ON A CELL PHONE WHO PLOWED INTO THREE CARS, ONE WAS MY BRO'S. ASSHAT CELLPHONE TALKERS!! Grrrrrr. MY brother.

A UK friend just told me it has been illegal for over a year there to drive and chat on the fucking phone. I really think people use them because they have to have someone constantly saying their name or they don't know they exist. PATHETIC and disgusting little over indulgence American-style.

Lee *who's spellchecker just tried to change "fuckwad" to "duckweed"...<g>

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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. I resisted until last fall. . .
and then only got one of those pay-as-you-go phones to use when I travel or for emergencies. I've given the number out to only TWO people - so when that phone rings, I know there is something important going on.

I detest people who ramble on and on in PUBLIC on those phones, particularly on trains or in the supermarket. It's one thing to fast call someone to ask what item to pick up at the store, and quite another to be engaging in a half hour of personal chit-chat/drama/business while roaming the aisle of a supermarket.

The last time I was on the train - it was a five and one-half hour trip, and a woman sitting two or three rows behind me talked the ENTIRE time on her cellphone...she just kept calling people, often repeating the same personal gossip. And she spoke at a level normally used in the privacy of your own home - so a dozen other people knew her business over and over again.

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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
44. so, you tried to fill her head with a bunch of bullshit, and she didn't take?
go figure.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. The bullshit is where....?
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. here:
"I've told her that electromagnetic waves are munching on her brain. I've explained that they use "cute" rings to torture people at Gitmo. I've informed her that lab mice left near cell phones can't distinguish brie from Velveeta."
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #67
81. Ok, I don't know about Gitmo.
The rest of the claims are basically substantiated in scientific literature. Sorry you don't like the findings.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. I don't like them either (but we all would love to have an iphone).
My pet peeve is people screaming into them like they're using two tin cans and some string.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. One telling video was 2 college girls standing face to face talking to each other on their cells.
My wife and I have managed to still talk to each other and/or use the archaic land-lines when we have to talk to others.

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. I got tired of the excessive fees on my landlines
Somewhere in the neighborhood of $70 each month for things I have never heard of.
I tried Vonage but we live in such a small town and the cable is not optimal. The phone only worked half of the time.
So, we all have cell phones now. But, I am funny. I turn it off when I leave the house. I can always turn it off in an emergency, but living in a house with 4 other people and having a demanding job--the ONLY "me-time" I have is when I am driving.
Nobody can have that.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
57. Those blackberries are pretty awful too.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 05:43 PM by Sequoia
We have guys always, always looking at them and not watching where they're going. It does my heart good when the service goes down and it's "breaking news". Pity the fools.
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
60. Have fought urge to get cell phone for years now.
I know it would be convenient, it might save my ass at some point, I could call the troopers about the road-raging asshole with the bush/cheney sticker.

But in the words of Woody Allen, I don't want to become a "connectivity asshole."
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. Why don't you just tell her it's rude for her to stop her conversation with you
the person IN FRONT OF HER and leave you hanging while she yammers on to whomever called and INTERUPTED your conversation?

Jeez. Why can't people just use common courtesy anymore?
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
63. I've said it a few times, I'll say it again:
The catchphrase of the '00s is "I gotta take this"! :mad: :crazy: :argh: :grr: :nuke:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
64. Our technology is DESTROYING us and our Mother Host.
Its developements are faster than our ability to evaluate its uses and necessity.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #64
93. Human stupidity and overpopulation is destroying the Earth, not technology.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 07:50 PM by Odin2005
spare me the luddite nonsense.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
97. Then shouldn't you get up and walk away from the computer?
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
65. It's all fun and games until somebody almost kills you.
This is a post I made about cell phones a couple of days back.

"I've almost been killed SEVERAL times by cell phone morons.


I walk everywhere, since I don't own a car (and really, don't care much for owning one). I AM SICK AND TIRED of almost being run over by knuckle-dragging fucking piece of shit cell phone users who talk while they drive. I've had to literally JUMP out of the way of one of these cars, and came within to inches of being flattened by a minivan. I was bruised, cut, and my ankle got sprained. And the fucking bitch kept driving, no doubt chatting to her asshole husband or idiot children about something completely inconsequential while I lay there bleeding.

Fuck people who drive with cell phones. I will RIP the motherfucking cellphone out of your hands and DESTROY it if anybody ever pulls that shit around me."
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
69. Your friend is rude
but that's her fault, not the technology's.

The problem isn't cell phones, which have a valuable use and are great for emergencies, getting lost, and getting in touch when you're on the run.

The problem is that people are obnoxious and don't have common courtesy. I think it's pretty obvious that it's rude to carry on a conversation when company is around, or in public places (especially like say a restaurant, etc). And driving and talking can be a distraction, even with a bluetooth headset, let alone with out one.

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Obamarama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
70. Wanna read a funny book? Check out Stephen King's "Cell".
All the people who use cell phones get electronic messages as part of a terrorsit plot. The electonic waves cause them to go ape-shit crazy and civilization sort of disintegrates in a manner only Stephen King could conure up.

The only sane people left on earth? Those who aren't continuously connected to their cell phones.
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RC Quake Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
72. The only reason I dislike mine is
My husband now sends me to the local home improvement store with his list of materials. Before then, he had to go himself, because I would surely return with the incorrect item. Now, I have a cell phone to call him when I'm wandering helplessly through the irrigation isle looking for the correct nipple. :crazy:
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Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
73. We got our first one 6 months ago...
Edited on Wed May-09-07 06:51 PM by Matsubara
...we never take it anywhere, never use up the minutes. It's been a total waste of money, but we have a one year contract. :(

I honestly don't understand the fervor for them. I just don't have that much to gab about, I guess.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
74. nevermind that, where my Brie loving rat at?
we can have some Sauvignon, make it a night!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
75. That's not the cell phone.
That's just bad manners.

The idea that the earth will stop revolving around the sun if you don't take every call immediately is just foolish, from my perspective.

Of course, I don't like talking on the phone. It ties up my hands, my time, and my attention. Phone calls interrupt life for some of us.

I don't ever want to talk on the phone to just "chat." I'll email to chat. I can read what you have to say so much faster than you can say it, and I can get to it on my own time, and answer the same way.

A phone call is for emergencies or to get information.

For those that must use it as a social tool, simple courtesy is sufficient. Either let it go to voice mail and check it when you are done with the person you are with, or check in briefly to make sure it's not an emergency, and let the caller know you'll get back to him/her when you are free. What is so difficult about that?

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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
78. Don't put the cell phone up against your head -- use an earpiece or the speaker phone


Exposed brain cells release damaged DNA



Unexposed rat brain cells do not


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3506713.stm

Low-level magnetic fields concern

By Dr David Whitehouse

BBC News Online science editor


Exposure to low-level magnetic fields could be harmful, say US scientists.

Rats exposed to magnetic fields similar to those humans encounter developed damage to the DNA in their brain cells.

Professor Henry Lai, of Washington University, said that people should be prudent in their use of electrical devices held close to the head.

The peer-reviewed study is published in Environmental Health Perspectives, a journal of the US National Institute of Environmental Sciences.

Duration can be damaging

The researchers discovered that rats exposed to a weak magnetic field oscillating 60 times per second for 24 hours showed DNA damage. Rats exposed for 48 hours showed even more damage.

They also say that the exposure resulted in an increase in brain cell apoptosis or "cell suicide" - a process in which the cell self-destructs because it cannot repair itself.

But what are the implications for people and the magnetic fields most of us encounter in our daily lives?

Speaking to BBC News Online, Professor Lai said that, in his opinion, prolonged exposure to low-level magnetic fields, such as those emitted by hair dryers, electric blankets and razors could damage human brain cells.

"We do not use hair dryers or electric razors for more than a few minutes each day. However, the exposure to magnetic fields from these devices, held close to the head, is quite high," he added.

"Our important result is that in rats the harmful effect accumulates over time. The big question is, if we use a hair dryer for five minutes a day, will the harmful effect accumulate in humans? We do not know.

"But our results raise the possibility that it might."

Professor Lai said that people should be cautious and limit their exposure as much as possible.

In the summary of the research paper, he and co-worker Narendra Singh said their work could "...have an important implication on the possible health effects associated with exposure to extremely-low frequency magnetic fields in the public and occupational environments".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Shhhh. Let the lemmings lobotomize themselves.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. UK plans to lower EMF limits -- but the US is doing nothing


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2992921.stm

UK plans to lower EMF limits


By Alex Kirby
BBC News Online environment correspondent


There are concerns about electricity fields

The exposure of people in the UK to electromagnetic fields (EMFs) should be cut significantly, the government's radiation advisers say.

The National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) says the UK should adopt international exposure standards.

EMFs are given off by many industrial and domestic electric installations and appliances, including mobile telephones and wiring circuits.

Some experts say deeper cuts are necessary to protect people's health. EMFs are measured in units called microTeslas.

The NRPB has recommended for many years that nobody should be exposed to a level higher than 1,600 microTeslas.

But in a consultation document on restricting people's exposure, it now recommends the UK should adopt the guidelines of the International Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (Icnirp).

The commission's recommended level is far lower, at 100 microTeslas.

Health impact

The NRPB paper reviews recent research on possible health effects.

It includes reviews of EMFs and possible health effects by Icnirp, the World Health Organisation, and the UK's Independent Expert Group on Mobile Phones.

The NRPB says: "All scientific investigations are subject to uncertainties, including the interpretation of studies on the possible adverse health effects of exposure to EMFs.

"The results from well designed and conducted studies have uncertainties that can be quantified statistically, but may not always be explicable.

"Hence a cautious approach is used in making proposals for quantitative restrictions on EMF exposures."

But some experts believe the traditionally cautious NRPB should have seized the chance to be much bolder.

Denis Henshaw, professor of physics at the University of Bristol, told BBC News Online: "The adoption by the NRPB of a precautionary approach to EMF exposures is to be welcomed.

"In the case of new installations (power lines, sub-stations, etc.) this needs to result in public exposures well below 0.4 microTeslas, the level at which a doubling of the risk of childhood leukaemia has been seen.

"This should also protect against increased risk of adult brain cancer, miscarriage and a number of other adverse health outcomes.

"In the case of existing installations the adoption of the Icnirp exposure limit of 100 microTeslas still leaves people living near high-voltage power lines potentially exposed to magnetic field levels of several or even tens of microTeslas, well above the levels where adverse health effects have been reported.

"Future consideration will need to be given to reducing exposures with respect to existing installations."

Leukaemia risk

Two years ago an NRPB investigation found "a weak association" between EMFs and an increased risk of childhood leukaemia.

It said the extra danger was slight, but recommended further research.

The investigation included a study of 3,000 children which suggested electricity pylons could double the childhood leukaemia risk.

But the NRPB said the evidence applied not just to power lines, but to the effects of electrical power inside houses.

In 2000, a US study concluded people might be likelier to commit suicide if they were regularly exposed to low-frequency electromagnetic fields.

The UK Electricity Association said it fully supported the NRPB approach.

Dr John Swanson, its scientific adviser, said: "The new proposals do not change what the science says, but are more about looking at what could be the pros and cons of changing the safety margins from those we use now.

"This does not mean that the old guidelines were fundamentally flawed¿ It is simply asking the question, should we have even greater safety margins than we already have."


FAIR USE NOTICE: This may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of ecological, political, human rights, economic democracy, scientific, moral, ethical, and social justice issues, etc. It is believed that this constitutes a "fair use" of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior general interest in receiving similar information for research and educational purposes. For more information on this topic go to: http://www.law.Cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. The Sensitivity of Children to Electromagnetic Fields
In Europe and other countries there is an effort to reduce exposure to electromagnetic frequencies (EMF).
Why do we see no effort by government in the U.S. to do the same? Wireless communications have
increased exponentially in the U.S., but the public is generally clueless about its effects on the human
organism... especially to children with their more sensitive developing brains.


**************************************************

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/2/e303


PEDIATRICS Vol. 116 No. 2 August 2005, pp. e303-e313 (doi:10.1542/peds.2004-2541)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELECTRONIC ARTICLE

The Sensitivity of Children to Electromagnetic Fields
Leeka Kheifets, PhD*, Michael Repacholi, PhD, Rick Saunders, PhD and Emilie van Deventer, PhD

* Department of Epidemiology, University of California School of Public Health, Los Angeles, California
Radiation and Environmental Health, World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland


ABSTRACT

In today's world, technologic developments bring social and economic benefits to large sections of society; however, the health consequences of these developments can be difficult to predict and manage. With rapid advances in electromagnetic field (EMF) technologies and communications, children are increasingly exposed to EMFs at earlier and earlier ages. Consistent epidemiologic evidence of an association between childhood leukemia and exposure to extremely low frequency (ELF) magnetic fields has led to their classification by the International Agency for Research on Cancer as a "possible human carcinogen." Concerns about the potential vulnerability of children to radio frequency (RF) fields have been raised because of the potentially greater susceptibility of their developing nervous systems; in addition, their brain tissue is more conductive, RF penetration is greater relative to head size, and they will have a longer lifetime of exposure than adults. To evaluate information relevant to children's sensitivity to both ELF and RF EMFs and to identify research needs, the World Health Organization held an expert workshop in Istanbul, Turkey, in June 2004. This article is based on discussions from the workshop and provides background information on the development of the embryo, fetus, and child, with particular attention to the developing brain; an outline of childhood susceptibility to environmental toxicants and childhood diseases implicated in EMF studies; and a review of childhood exposure to EMFs. It also includes an assessment of the potential susceptibility of children to EMFs and concludes with a recommendation for additional research and the development of precautionary policies in the face of scientific uncertainty.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Key Words: children • environmental risk • policies • sensitive periods • mobile phones • electromagnetic fields • power lines


Abbreviations: ELF, extremely low frequency • IARC, International Agency for Research on Cancer • RF, radio frequency • EMF, electromagnetic field • WHO, World Health Organization • CNS, central nervous system • ALL, acute lymphoblastic leukemia • AML, acute myeloblastic leukemia • SAR, specific absorption rate

Children in both industrialized and developing countries are exposed to a large variety of environmental agents including indoor and outdoor air pollution, water and food contaminants, chemicals (eg, pesticides, lead, mercury), and physical agents such as ultraviolet radiation and excessive noise. Changes in exposure to these agents are being linked to real or perceived increases in the incidence of certain childhood diseases, such as asthma, leukemia, and brain cancer, and in some behavioral and learning disabilities. Environmental exposures can be particularly harmful to children because of their special vulnerability during periods of development before and after birth.

Exposure to electric and magnetic fields from 0 to 300 GHz has been increasing greatly as countries increase their capacity to generate and distribute electricity and take advantage of the many new technologies, such as telecommunications, to improve lifestyle and work efficiency (Fig 1). Evidence of an association between childhood leukemia and exposure to extremely low frequency (ELF) magnetic fields has led to their classification by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as a "possible human carcinogen"1 based on consistent epidemiologic data and lack of support by laboratory studies in animals and cells. The reason why the results of the childhood leukemia studies are consistent is still being investigated, but one possibility is that children may be more sensitive to radiation in some or all parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.







Concerns about the potential vulnerability of children to radio frequency (RF) fields from mobile telephony were first raised by an expert group in the United Kingdom2 on the grounds that children have a longer lifetime of exposure than adults, and from a physiologic point of view, they have a developing nervous system, their brain tissue is more conductive than that of adults because it has a higher water content and ion concentration, and they have greater absorption of RF energy in the tissues of the head at mobile telephone frequencies. This topic was discussed further at a European Cooperation in the Field of Scientific and Technical Research (COST) 281 workshop,3 in a report of the Health Council of the Netherlands,4 and in a recent report from the United Kingdom’s National Radiological Protection Board.5
To evaluate the available information relevant to children's sensitivity to electromagnetic fields (EMFs) and to identify research needs, the World Health Organization (WHO) held an expert workshop in Istanbul, Turkey, in June 2004. This article is based on discussions and recommendations from the workshop and provides background information on the development of the embryo, fetus, and child, with particular attention to the developing brain; an outline of childhood susceptibility to environmental toxicants, childhood diseases implicated in EMF studies, and exposure to ELF and RF fields, with a focus on children. After a brief presentation of the EMF science most pertinent to effects on children and a review of several proposed mechanisms, the potential sensitivity of children to EMFs is discussed. Finally, recommendations are outlined on the protection of children through the development of precautionary approaches in the face of scientific uncertainty.


FROM EMBRYO TO ADOLESCENCE

Embryo, Fetal, and Childhood Development
Development proceeds from conception to adulthood through a number of different stages in which the developmental processes are markedly different, and their susceptibility to environmental teratogens varies. The prenatal period of development is divided roughly into 3 periods: the preimplantation period, extending from fertilization to the settling of the embryo into the uterine wall; a period of organogenesis, characterized by the formation of the main body structures; and the fetal period, during which growth of the structures already formed takes place. Additional developmental changes take place after birth. Postnatal changes are characterized by slower growth and maturation of existing organ systems, notably the central nervous system (CNS), the hemopoietic and immune systems, the endocrine and reproductive systems, and the skeletal system. The completion of sexual development at the end of the second or the beginning of the third decade of human life marks the completion of this period of growth and maturation. Essentially, however, the nature of the toxicant and the timing and magnitude of exposure determine the risk of any adverse effects in terms of both severity and occurrence. Vulnerability can vary quite rapidly during the prenatal period, whereas slower changes occur postnatally.6

During the first 2 weeks of embryonic development (known as the "all-or-none period"), the embryo is very sensitive to the lethal effects of toxic agents and much less sensitive to the induction of malformation. Many of the cells are still omnipotential stem cells, and if the embryo survives a toxic exposure it can recuperate without an increased risk of birth defects or growth retardation. During the next 6 to 8 weeks of development, major organogenic events occur and toxic agents with teratogenic potential can cause major malformations of the visceral organs, the CNS, the face, and the limbs. From the 8th to the 15th week, neuron proliferation, differentiation, and migration in the CNS are particularly vulnerable.7 Genitourinary and other malformations, gonad cell depletion, and neurodevelopmental problems may occur if the thresholds for these effects are exceeded. During the late fetal period, effects on growth of the fetus and susceptible organs such as the CNS diminish, but vulnerability to deleterious effects remains high compared with adults.

Development continues after birth, but now this process largely entails the maturation of existing organ systems, although growth is still occurring. Neurobiologists long believed that neurogenesis in the human ends during the first months of postnatal life, but recent rodent and primate studies demonstrate that there is lifelong neuron production in some parts of the CNS.8 However, with some particular exceptions, most adult neurons are already produced by birth. The number of connections (synapses) between neurons in the human brain peaks at 2 years and decreases by 40% to the adult number during adolescence8 as experience is acquired and "redundant" connections lost. This reflects the balance between the formation of new synapses (synaptogenesis) and synapse elimination, a "pruning" back of excess synapses between neurons, which are key processes in the development of the postnatal "hard-wiring" of the brain. Another important neurologic event that occurs postnatally is myelination, which facilitates the transmission of information within the CNS and occurs most rapidly from birth to 24 months but may also continue into the second decade. Unfortunately, the susceptibility of these processes to environmental agents has not been studied extensively and thus is not well understood. However, because developmental processes are vulnerable to disruption by agents that may not be toxic to mature systems, it is reasonable to expect that the later stages of brain development present special risks.8

Other threshold effects that can result from postnatal exposures include interference with fertility and endocrine function, alterations in sexual maturation, and interference with the development of the immune system. Endocrine disrupters, exogenous substances that mimic the action of hormones (particularly steroids), may alter the function of the developing endocrine system and have adverse effects on the reproductive organs, liver, kidney, adrenal glands, CNS, immune system, cardiovascular system, and bones.9

Exposure to toxic agents with mutagenic and carcinogenic potential, such as ionizing radiation, cancer chemotherapeutic drugs, and some chemicals, poses theoretical, stochastic risks for the induction or progression of cancer during embryonic and childhood development. However, although many agents have been alleged to be responsible for cancer and genetic disease, such effects will only result from agents that have either mutagenic properties or the ability to produce more subtle effects on carcinogenic processes, such as the stimulation of excessive cell proliferation or an influence on cell-to-cell communication, apoptosis, or DNA repair.

Children's Susceptibility to Environmental Exposures
Several aspects of exposure and susceptibility warrant a focus on children. In some exposure scenarios, children may receive higher doses than adults, resulting from higher intake and accumulation or differences in behavior. Greater susceptibility to some toxicants and physical agents has been demonstrated in children. Because the period from embryonic life to adolescence is characterized by growth and development, deleterious effects can occur at lower levels and be more severe or lead to effects that do not occur in adults; on the other hand, children can be more resilient because of better recuperative capacities.

Toxic exposures in utero have produced effects that are quite surprising, given the period or level of exposure. Cassidy et al10 reported that exposure to the persistent organochlorine chlordane in utero at quite low levels causes significant long-term alterations in sexual behavior. These effects were evident at levels of exposure very similar to those experienced in homes in the United States when chlordane and heptachlor were universally applied as termiticides. Both of these chemicals produced marked changes in sexually dimorphic functions in rats; females exposed in utero developed masculine behaviors, and males showed exaggerated male mating behaviors. These observations suggest that these chemicals masculinized by mimicking steroid hormones or by changing hormone levels.

Of perhaps more specific interest are toxic exposures that affect the nervous system of the fetus, infant, and child. Because development of the nervous system is very specific in pattern and timing, exposure to various agents at critical periods of development can cause long-lasting or permanent injury. For instance, exposure to ethanol or methylmercury has been shown to affect neuronal proliferation in rodents and in other experimental models. Some agents such as ethanol, lead, methylmercury, and some pesticides seem to affect synaptogenesis. Each of the multiple processes of neural development has been shown to be affected by specific toxic agents, often at low doses but at critical periods of development.

The timing of exposure might be critical as well: for ionizing radiation, excess risk for leukemias and brain and thyroid cancer is higher for exposures that occur in childhood; the risk of breast cancer was highest for Japanese women exposed to ionizing radiation from the atomic bomb during puberty, although the risk also increased in women who were <10 years old (an age at which girls have little or no breast tissue) at the time of the explosion.11 Similarly, sunburns in childhood seem to be particularly potent in increasing the risk of skin cancer later in life.12 Exposure in childhood may also increase the risk of disease later in life simply because the duration of exposure can be much longer if it starts early. There is evidence, for instance, that the younger a person is when starting smoking, the higher the risk of lung cancer.13

Childhood Diseases Relevant to EMF Exposure
Some diseases are limited to the embryo, child, or adolescent; other diseases that occur in children and adults manifest themselves differently in children. Of particular relevance to EMF exposure are childhood leukemia and brain cancer. There is consistent evidence from epidemiologic studies of a risk of childhood leukemia associated with exposure to environmentally high levels of ELF magnetic fields. There is no explanation for this effect from laboratory studies. An increased risk of brain cancer has been investigated in relation to ELF exposures and has been raised particularly in the context of mobile-phone use and the absorption of RF signals by the brain, although there is no convincing evidence suggesting an increased risk. To put potential EMF effects in perspective and determine how EMFs might be involved in the development of these diseases, we provide a brief overview of rates and risk factors for them.

Childhood Leukemia
Leukemias are the most common cancer to affect children, accounting for 25% to 35% of all childhood malignancies. The biological heterogeneity of childhood leukemia is well documented; the major morphologic types are acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) and acute myeloblastic leukemia (AML).

The rate of leukemia for children <15 years old has been estimated to be 4 per 100000 per year in the developed world and 2.5 per 100000 per year in the developing world.14 In developed countries, the incidence of leukemia rises rapidly after birth, peaking at 3 years of age before declining and then rising steadily again throughout life. Thus, unlike many cancers, it has a short latency and a peak incidence early in life15 that has resulted in many etiologic hypotheses, most notably those involving exposure to infections.16

Subtypes of AML and ALL are frequently characterized by genetic alterations, including changes in chromosome number (hyperdiploidy or hypodiploidy) and chromosomal translocations that may involve chimeric or fusion genes.17,18 These genes include MLL, TEL, and AML1, all of which can fuse with many other genes and, in the case of TEL and AML1, with each other. There is strong evidence that this rearrangement may originate in utero, supported by data obtained from studies of identical twins or children with concordant ALL. Screening of newborn blood samples suggests that 1% have the TEL-AML1 gene fusion, 100 times the proportion of children that will develop ALL with a TEL-AML1 gene fusion before the age of 15 years. This implies that the conversion of the preleukemic clone to overt disease is low and that development of childhood ALL is a multistep process requiring at least 1 prenatal event in combination with additional prenatal and/or postnatal events. Although the "first hit," the initiating in utero event, is believed to be common, the "second hit," possibly occurring postnatally, is rare and therefore acts as the rate-determining step in development of the disease.

As with most other cancers, the mechanism by which leukemia arises is likely to involve gene-environment interactions, the environmental exposures being derived from both endogenous and exogenous sources. Accordingly, it is important to identify exposures that either cause DNA damage and induce chromosome breaks that are repaired inadequately or act as promoters and/or progressers, ultimately leading to the overt expression of the disease. Exposures acting before birth and early in life have long been thought to be important determinants of leukemia; it is unfortunate that the evidence regarding the majority of suggested exposures is limited and often contradictory. Ionizing radiation given at large doses is one of the few known risk factors for leukemia.

Brain Cancer
CNS tumors account for 20% of all malignancies in children <15 years old19 but account for <2% of cancers in adults. CNS cancers in children occur in tissues of mesodermal or embryonic origin, but in adults they occur in epithelial tissues. Another difference between childhood and adult tumors is that adult tumors tend to occur in the cerebral hemispheres, whereas the majority of pediatric tumors are brainstem gliomas.

The international incidence rates of childhood CNS tumors (0–14 years) vary between developed and developing nations, with the higher rates observed in most Westernized countries reaching 3 per 100000 per year compared with 1 to 2 per 100000 in other parts of the world.19 Over recent decades, steady rises in the incidence of childhood CNS tumors have been observed in several populations of the United Kingdom, the United States, Japan, and Australia. The debate continues over whether these increases are "real" or an artifact of improved diagnostic practice and case finding by cancer registries.

The causes of CNS cancers are largely unknown, although up to 5% may be explained by genetic predisposition, associated with disorders such as neurofibromatosis type I.20,21 Having a parent or sibling with a CNS tumor also increases the risk. The identification of environmental risk factors for CNS tumors has generally been inconsistent.20,21 Again, ionizing radiation given in therapeutic doses is one of the few known risk factors for CNS tumors.


CHILDREN'S EXPOSURE TO RF AND ELF FIELDS

In evaluating the potential role of environmental exposures in the development of childhood diseases, it is important to consider not only the fact that childhood exposures can be different from exposures during adulthood but also the fact that they can be highly age dependent. Exposures of interest during the preconception and gestation periods include residential and parental exposures to ELF and RF fields, including mothers' exposure from use of domestic appliances and mobile phones. Infants and toddlers are exposed mostly at home or at day care facilities. Among preteens, exposure sources expand to include mobile-phone use and sources at school, with an increased use of mobile phones in adolescence. Here we focus on 2 major exposure scenarios: residential ELF and RF exposures and exposure from mobile phones.

Residential Exposure
Everyone is exposed to ELF electric and magnetic fields at home.22 High-voltage power lines are a major source of exposure for children who live near them; however, only 1% of children live in close proximity to high-voltage lines. For most children, exposure to low-level fields from primary and secondary distribution wiring is continuous; short-duration and intermittent exposure to higher fields results from proximity to domestic appliances. ELF exposure also occurs at school, during transport, and even during mobile-phone use. Typical average magnetic fields in homes seem to be 0.05 to 0.1 µT. Generally, magnetic fields in homes vary from country to country; geometric-mean fields are 35 nT in the United Kingdom and 70 nT in the United States. This difference results from the supply voltage used in the United States (110 V) being approximately half that used in the United Kingdom (220 V), leading to approximately twice the electric current and magnetic field exposure. The fraction of homes with average fields above certain thresholds likewise varies; for example, 1% to 2% of homes in the United Kingdom and 10% in the United States have fields of >0.2 µT. Exposure to appliances has been estimated to be 30% of total exposure. Maximum fields experienced are typically in the tens of microtesla. There is evidence that younger children use appliances less (and spend less time outside the home), so their personal exposure is closer to and correlates better with the fields in the home.

RF fields are produced by radio and television broadcasts, mobile phones and base stations, and other communications infrastructure. Radio and television signals are broadcast to a large area from comparatively few sites. Mobile-phone base stations cover a smaller area and produce much lower emissions but are now much more common than radio and television stations (tens of thousands in many countries). Because of the width and angle of the RF signal beam and perturbation by the earth and building materials, there is little correlation between field strength and distance to the source. Typical power densities outdoors would be 0.01 to 1 mW · m–2 but could be orders of magnitude higher (ie, 100 mW · m–2). Depending on where the measurements are taken, base stations can be the largest individual source of RF fields, but other sources such as radio or television transmitters can result in comparable or greater exposures. Indoor levels are often lower by orders of magnitude, because buildings screen fields. A European median indoor power density of 0.005 mW · m–2 has been reported.

Background environmental levels are the primary source of RF exposure for very young children. Potential sources of residential RF exposure to children are wireless in-house communications (eg, wireless monitors used in children's cribs, cordless phones, Wi-Fi) and mobile-phone use by someone in close proximity to a child, creating passive exposure. Because children <5 years of age usually spend most of their time at home, residential exposure can be a sufficient predictor of individual exposure.22,23 RF exposure may be estimated more easily for children than for adults, because the variety of exposure sources is smaller. When they reach adulthood, today's children will have a much higher cumulative exposure to RF fields than today's adults.

At present, population exposure to RF fields has been much less characterized than ELF fields, partly because of technical challenges (lack of adequate measuring equipment), the rapid evolution of mobile-phone technology (frequency, coding schemes), and new patterns of use (duration of calls, short-message services). However, the main reason ELF fields are better understood than RF fields is that they have been studied more.

Mobile-Phone Use
Modern children will experience a longer period of exposure to RF fields from mobile-phone use than adults, because they started using mobile phones at an early age and are likely to continue using them. Data from a multinational case-control study of potential causes of adult brain cancer show that both the prevalence of regular mobile-phone users and daily use are highest in the younger age groups (eg, 19% of younger subjects made calls for >30 minutes a day, compared with 10% of older subjects).24,25 Moreover, several recent trends (such as increased popularity, reduced price, and advertising to children) have led to increased mobile-phone use among children.26 A steep increase in mobile-phone ownership among children has been reported in several public-opinion surveys.27 For example, in Australia >90% of 6- to 9-year-olds reported sometimes using their parents' mobile phones, and in Germany approximately one third of 9- to 10-year-olds reported owning a mobile phone. Clearly, mobile phones are the dominant source of RF exposure for teens and preteens.


HEALTH-RISK ASSESSMENT

The workshop addressed the potential sensitivity of children at all stages of development from conception through to sexual maturity. The nature of any adverse health effect that ensues from exposure to an environmental toxicant depends not only on the timing and magnitude of the exposure but also on the mechanisms by which the toxicant interacts with the developing tissue or organ. As a consequence, it is not possible to generalize about the possible health effects that might ensue from exposure to an agent posing unknown risks to health by drawing parallels with other toxic agents unless they have very similar mechanisms of interaction. Instead, it is necessary to examine the experimental and epidemiologic evidence by formulating and testing hypotheses on the basis of an examination of the known and possible interaction mechanisms.

Health Risks to Children From ELF Fields
Exposure to ELF EMFs induces electric fields and currents within the body; guidance on exposure is based on avoiding the risks to health that result from the interaction of the induced fields and currents with electrically excitable nerve tissue, particular that of the CNS (see, for example, refs 28 and 29). Present guidance on occupational exposure is based on a basic restriction on induced current density in the CNS of 10 mA · m–2, which approximates an electric field in CNS tissue of 100 mV · m–1. Guidance on public exposure incorporates an additional safety factor, reducing the basic restriction to 2 mA · m–2 (20 mV · m–1). The basic restrictions are linked to external field strengths (reference levels) through dosimetric calculation, which is based on realistic anatomic human models and measurements of the dielectric properties of human tissue. For general public exposure, the corresponding reference levels for power-frequency electric and magnetic fields are of the order of 5 kV/m and 100 µT, respectively.

Dosimetric calculations have not been conducted extensively for children and have not been undertaken for pregnant women and their unborn children. In general, adults exposed to ELF electric or magnetic fields have higher internal electric-field strengths and current densities than children because of size and shape differences. However, the distributions are different, and in children some tissues have higher field strengths and current densities for the same external field. Furthermore, children have significantly higher internal field strengths and current densities from contact currents than do adults. Dose computations using anatomically correct models of children30 reveal that modest, imperceptible current into the hand (10 µA) produces 50 mV · m–1 averaged across the lower-arm marrow of a small child and approximately 130 mV · m–1 in 5% of that tissue. During pregnancy, the magnitude and distribution of induced electric fields and currents in the mother will be different because of changes in body shape and will not have been assessed in the embryo or fetus. These factors, along with differences in dielectric properties, need to be taken into account in assessing health risks to children from ELF EMFs.

The guidance cited above was based on a consideration of laboratory evidence, including evidence from volunteer studies of magnetic phosphenes, and more recently on evidence from voltage-gated ion channel and neural-network behavior.29 Neurobehavioral studies in volunteers and in animals, mostly in adults, have not reported robust responses to ELF exposure31; overall, any changes seen have been subtle, transient, and reversible. Workshop participants thought that there is no reason to suppose a greater sensitivity of CNS neural networks and ion channels to induced electric fields in children or in the embryo or fetus. Reduced myelination seen in childhood and early adolescence was not thought likely to increase sensitivity either. It is not clear what the impact would be of an overabundance of synaptic connections seen in infants and early childhood, but any increased sensitivity was considered to be covered by the more restrictive guidance on public exposure.

The evidence that induced electric fields might affect development of the nervous system and other tissue was discussed at the workshop in some detail. Evidence was presented that endogenous direct-current electric fields of 10 to 100 V · m–1 played a role in prenatal development. There is little evidence regarding susceptibility to ELF electric fields, although it was thought that there is no reason to suppose greater sensitivity. It was noted that the direct-current electric fields were several orders of magnitude above present guidance values. However, the possible influence of such fields on synaptogenesis and/or synapse elimination is not known.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
88. A whole range of opinions here.
I'm with the people who no longer even have a land line. I generally hate talking on the phone and much prefer email.

With elderly relatives in other parts of the country and two kids away at college, though, it's a comfort to know I can be reached by the people who matter to me at almost any time and any place.

It's also nice to know a phone is handy for emergencies even when I'm away from home. Pay phones are almost impossible to find anymore, which is why I finally broke down and got cell phones when my daughter started driving.

Yes, there are those who abuse them and are addicted, but I just tune 'em out. My cell phone is just another very convenient tool.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
90. I am like this a lot actually
I work 3 jobs, mostly from home - and I need to keep in constant contact with my customers.

If I am at the store, at a friends' house, etc, I need to be able to take calls to assist those I work with/for.

Missing a call means downtime, people being screwed over, etc and so on. If someone is calling me it usually means they need help - and not just customers, but friends who are in a bad way right now and need someone to talk to.

If the people I am with at the time cannot grok that, well - maybe they need to step back and see they are not the center of the universe :) A lot of folks depend on me now, and my cell phone is the best way for me to keep in contact with them.

Smoke signals may be worse, I would have to run out of the store every few minutes and see if there was any coming and then build a fire to reply....
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
91. Never being addicted to phones in the first place, I have a good relationship with my cell phone.
I am always 100s of minutes under the limit and use it for only a few minutes at a time. Touching base with my kids mostly. I bought it for mostly emergencies..ie on the road.
Both my kids have cells and are not addicted to them at all. In fact, one of my biggest gripes is that my younger son doesn't even take his phone with him. Being resourceful, I have the numbers for all of his friends! :)
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
94. You can take my cell phone from my cold dead hands.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 07:53 PM by Odin2005
And there is no proof that phone signals fry your brain, that is technophobic paranoia. We were bathed in radio waves long before cell phones were around.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
95. losing short term memory capabilities
i believe will be the long run effect of cell phones.


dp
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
96. The problem isn't the phone.
The problem is that your friend is rude. It's no different from being a guest in somebody's house, and the house phone rings and your host ignores you and yaks on and on with whoever is on the phone. Cell phones are useful but their owners need to have good manners and not ignore the people they are with while they yammer on the cell phone.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
98. Never had one, never will.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 09:02 PM by Kurovski
If I ever do NEED one it will be only for the specific NEED.

Don't you all feel it heating the hell out of your head after 4-5 minutes?

And...how can rats tell Brie from velveeta in the first place?
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
100. Hear, hear! Oh and while we are at it...
Let's get rid of those damnable TVs! All they do is poison our minds and bodies with radiation and silliness.

Radios! God those things were the death of the American family. Everyone sitting around listening to some jackass pretending to be someone else. Bah!

Oh...typewriters! What in the name of all that is good and holy do we need with typewriters? Look at what they have done....have you seen the hand writing of the average American lately? Horrendous!

Oh, oh! Trains! Stupid, dangerous, lumbering pieces of metal. And you wonder why all of us are fat and lazy. Trains! Before trains were around, what did we do to get to point B from A? Walk or ride a perfectly good animal! Jeez...

Don't get me started on electric blankets or those dagnabit toaster ovens!

;)
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Error Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
102. I've been thinking of getting rid of mine
Seems like I end up paying 140 for cell and 180 for cable. All for distractions.

I only live 3 miles from work and there is a phone at my desk. What do I even need a cell for?
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
107. when it's too much i call them on my cell phone when they're mere feet away
it tends to drive the point home -- and i tend to have lots of minutes to spare unlike they do. it's a win-win... for me. i really don't take shit like that from people, even friends and family. if they want a place holder they can rent a doll, my time is precious.
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Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
108. don't get me started on cell phones..but THIS MAKES ME CRAZY!!!!!!
I would have left out the first part... and the 'please' stuff.....




:)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
109. don't have one
never have, don't think I ever will

they annoy the living bejeezus out of me
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
110. Cell Phones
They are useful tools. That is all. I never turn my cell on while driving. The only time I carry one is on long trips and at work. Rest of the time it is off and at home.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
111. COLTAN - human costs between 3 and 3.5 MILLION PEOPLE
The human costs of this conflict have been horrific. According to the UN, up until last September, in the five Eastern provinces of DRC alone, between 3 and 3.5 million people


http://archive.corporatewatch.org/newsletter/issue13/issue13_part3.htm

The war on Iraq is not the only war in the world and it is not the only war being fought for our material benefit. Western consumers’ seemingly insatiable demand for mobile phones, laptops, games consoles and other luxury electronic goods has been fuelling violent conflict and killing millions in the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire). By Erik Vilwar.

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is possibly the most mineral rich place on earth – though this has proved a curse to the people of the Congo. The Congo holds millions of tons of diamonds, copper, cobalt, zinc, manganese, uranium (the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were built using Congolese uranium), and coltan. Coltan, a substance made up of columbium and tantalum, is a particularly valuable resource – used to make mobile phones, night vision goggles, fiber optics, and micro-capacitors.

What is Coltan?
Coltan looks like black mud, but is three times heavier than iron and only slightly lighter than gold. It is found in abundance in eastern Congo and can be mined with minimal equipment. Coltan is vital to the high tech economy. Wireless electronic communication would not exist without it. The ‘mud’ is refined into tantalum – a metallic element that is both a superb conductor of electricity and extremely heat-resistant. Tantalum powder is a vital component in capacitors, for the control of the flow of current in miniature circuit boards. Capacitors made of tantalum are found inside every laptop, pager, personal digital assistant, and mobile phone.1 Tantalum is also used in the aviation and atomic energy industries. A very small group of companies in the world process coltan. These include H.C.Starck (Germany, a subsidiary ot Bayer), Cabott Inc. (US), Ningxia (China), and Ulba (Kazakhstan). The world’s biggest coltan mines are in Australia and they account for about 60% of world production. It is generally believed, however, that 80% of the world’s reserves are in Africa, with DRC accounting for 80% of the African reserves.2

The human costs of this conflict have been horrific. According to the UN, up until last September, in the five Eastern provinces of DRC alone, between 3 and 3.5 million people had died directly because of the war. 4 Many were killed and tortured but most died of starvation and disease. The destruction of farms has resulted in malnutrition and starvation. Millions of people have been forced from their homes. Years of war have led to a social environment in which men abuse women on a staggering scale and children become instruments of war, forced to work in mines and conscripted into armed forces. Surveys in Butembo found that 90% of people were living on less than 20 cents a day and only one meal. 5
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. And what about the gorillas...?
I've only just minutes ago learned about coltan (so forgive me if I'm not 100% accurate). Apparently, the stuff comes from the same region where gorillas live. They are, of course, an endangered species.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
112. I know the cell phone thing is out of hand, I have heard the signal uses microwaves, might be the..
... same thing.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
113. LOL! You will get my cell phone when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
LOL!
I love my cellphone. I don't know how I ever got along without it. I don't even have a landline anymore. I don't have to "remember" to call someone when I get home anymore..I have the phone with me...and BEST of all is that FINALLY the phone is at MY convenience. If I feel like taking calls, I answer...if not it gets switched off and all calls go straight to voice mail that I check when I feel like it. I don't even have to listen to an answering machine kick on to screen my calls.
Now that being said..when I go to a restaraunt the cell phone is OFF.
In the movie theater...OFF.
When I am visiting with or being visited by friends...OFF
When I am in a business meeting...OFF
When I am having meals with my family...OFF

I will never go back to a landline.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
114. I have mine for politics
When you're thigh-deep in it, yeah, sometimes you have to be available at all times. Ever manage a campaign? Oy!

There's a possible campaign for a US House seat I may run. If so the core campaign staff will have Blackberries cause communication is key.

Outside of that, the only time I use my phone is for keeping up with my busy teenagers.

Julie
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
117. That's just plain rude.
Now, I know I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I hate to talk on the phone, and I only have my pre-paid cell phone because my mother bought it and sent it to me - I lived in an apartment without a landline, and I have absolutely no family in town. Now, I buy minutes about thrice a year, and I tend to forget to turn it back to sound, because I keep it mainly on mute - I hate disturbing people should I happen to get an sms. I never look at it to check if anyone's called or sent and sms when I'm with other people, and the only time I've carried it on my person at a social event was when my sister was having an emergency ceasarean while I was at a work shindig.

As you might understand, I'm a bit conservative when it comes to cell phones, and I try to keep myself in hand. However, I'm getting increasingly irritated when I'm with friends, and they put their cell phones on the table, and even tho it would ring should they happen to get a message or a call, they still check the display obsessively right in the middle of someone speaking. At first, I thought they were checking the time, as many have stopped wearing wristwatches and use their cellphones instead (another excuse to check their cell phone display? At least it is for my students.) However, they readily admitted that they were checking to see if anyone had contacted them. I find that incredibly rude.

Nor do I appreciate hearing intimate details about people on the bus, for example. For some reason, people are willing to speak much more frankly if they're speaking on the phone rather than to a friend sitting next to them. I did have one amusing incident when a girl, clearly attending the School of Business which is practically next door to my house, kept on talking about Märtha and Ari, and how some of her mail had ended up being sent to them, and about their daughter Maud, to whom she had been a nanny. In Norway, there is only one couple named Märtha and Ari, and that is Princess Märtha of Norway and her author husband, Ari Behn - but I must admit, most of my amusement came from imagining what their reaction would be if they found out their former nanny spilled all the details about their daughter's potty training on the bus.

As for my high school students, they are completely unable to imagine a life without a cell phone, and they need to check it every 3 minutes. It's unnatural, to put it simply. They use fortunes on sending messages, and younger and younger kids are getting cell phones each day. In addition, they use the cameras and video cameras to take pictures which they later publish on the internet - from a party, or the locker room, etc. It's a menace.

I know many would think I sound like an old fussyduddy, but I am 31 years old. I just don't like the way cell phones have taken over people's lives, and puched themselves into everyone else's. At least you don't have to read people's emails at the grocery store.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
118. I still don't have one
But I don't drive a car. If I did, I would get one for emergencies.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. I don't either
but I do drive on ocassion...and yes, it is a good idea for emergencies on the road. If I were making a cross country trip by car I would probably want to get one.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
120. People talk on them endlessly--do people have such a need to constantly be "in touch" with somebody
all the time? I sometimes wonder how we managed without cell phones and computers when I was growing up (of course it's not only kids).

p.s.
My pet peeve: people who are talking on their cell phones while they are driving.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
122. It's not the cell phones. It's the people that use them.
I have one for travel emergencies only. It's great.
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B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
123. Mine's work-issued
I'm tech support, so I need to be reachable. If I'm driving or eating, though, you'll get my voice mail. I hate talking and driving...I can do it, but I prefer to let voicemail pick it up. I totally don't get the constant yapyapyapyapyapyapyap people do on the damned things...driving down the road oblivious to everything and flapping their jaws like there's no tomorrow. They're a handy tool, but like anything, it can be misused and abused. It takes sense and discipline and courtesy, traits glaringly lacking in a growing segment of the populace.

On the Beltline in Madison recently, a fire truck was trying to get through the traffic that had stopped, and get the drivers to move out of the way. The sirens were blaring, but this car wouldn't move. The fireman got OUT of his truck and walked up to the car...guy was yammering away on his cell OBLIVIOUS to the noisy firetruck behind him! What an asscarrot...

The yammering cellphone idiot driving a big SUV is the worst, though...and cell users in restaurants.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan
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