New facebook group: STOP HAVING BABIES WHEN YOU CAN'T PAY FOR THE ONES YOU ALREADY HAVE!

[devilgrrl]

I swear facebook groups are great gauge of how SICK our society has gotten. Yep. That's right folks SINGLE MOM'S are the problem. Those damn whores need to keep their legs crossed... their kids are draining our pocketbooks.

This nation is truly frightening. :-(

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/STOP-HAVING-BABIES-WHEN-YOU-CANT-PAY-FOR-THE-ONES-YOU-ALREADY-HAVE/250833257903

[Horse with no Name]

1. Yeah I have seen that one

It purely DISGUSTS me.
However, this crap has been boiling beneath the surface for years and only with the help of the troglodytes has it been able to bubble up surface side.

[tanyev]

2. Hmm...do they also support comprehensive sex ed and easy availability

of all manner of contraception? Bet not.

[Kerrytravelers]

3. I reported it as racist/hate speech.

I'm thinking of leaving FB. This nonsense has got to stop.

[SharonAnn]

27. Why not blame the "deadbeat dads" who abandon their children?

At lest the mothers are not abandoning their children.

[RobertPlant]

29. what's so bad about lower population

I for one hope the Duggar's stop having kids

[Kerrytravelers]

34. They keep giving these folks reality shows. They'll never stop breeding.

There is $$$$$$$$$ to be made.

[Kerrytravelers]

33. ? I'm not talking about the issue at large, I'm talking about that specific FB group.

The posts on that page and the "discussion" is highly racial. One post that clearly pointed this out in the "discussion" page was deleted on FB. That is quite telling.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

72. It is a ridiculously ignorant Facebook page

but I dont see how you pin racist/hate speech on it.

[Kerrytravelers]

91. The discussion forums are fairly bad.

It isn't the topic that is racist, but the actual page itself and what it has become.

[emulatorloo]

4. Haven't seen the facebook page, but I have no problem with the sentiment.

I don't think it is "Sick" to expect people to think about how they will take care of their children before they get pregnant.

An analogy that will no doubt anger you -- dog ownership. People buy dogs and then don't feed them properly or take them to the vet because they just did not think it through. You have a responsibility to the creatures under your care.

(ON EDIT: haven't seen the page, if it is some bullshit racist nonsense, then I am with you.)

[Kerrytravelers]

5. The issue with the FB page isn't the mature discussions regarding family planning,

but the typical rw nonsense and racist comments that follow.

(Trust me, you're with us on this one. :) )

[emulatorloo]

15. Thanks -- I am so glad you reported it. Hope they shut it down. n/t

[Kerrytravelers]

18. There was one page about shooting Hillary Clinton that was up for weeks, even after I reported it

multiple times.

I'm falling out of love with FB.

[emulatorloo]

20. I've never joined. Another reason not too - way to tolerant of hate

[devilgrrl]

6. You are so myopic. What about women whose men died in Iraq? Are they leeches too?

Yeah, chicks get pregnant for hell of it!

[emulatorloo]

8. What a hyperbolic non-sequiter

[devilgrrl]

10. And what typical rightwing bs you're spewing.

:hi:

[emulatorloo]

12. Get a grip.

[devilgrrl]

14. Get a clue.

[emulatorloo]

19. Sadly I know a few people with a real laissez-faire approach to family planning.

It disturbs me that they can't seem to think through the consequences.

(so that the hell does that have to do with war widows?)

[devilgrrl]

21. You're generalizing.... read Kali's post

she sums it up quite well.

[emulatorloo]

23. I'm not sure who is generalizing. It disturbs me when a parent will not pay child support

A child deserves the support of his or her parents.

(I did read Kali's post and it is a good one explaining extenuating circumstances)

[devilgrrl]

28. The issue isn't as black & white as your op suggested...

btw, my father was the king of all dead beat dads. I can get little huffy about it.

Sorry for being caustic.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rainy]

11. It's a god given right to have children. When you happen to be living in

a system that can not function at full employment that means that some can't get jobs. Mostly due to no fault of their own people live in poverty in this nasty capitalistic system. It takes the natural resources from the people, makes a profit off their labor and gives nothing back. It uses the tax dollar paid for roads, police, banking etc... of those same people but still refuses to give anything back.
I think people should have babies if they want to have a baby. Having a baby should not be just a right of the moneyed class. We really need to try to envision a better world where labor and income didn't make or brake a person as there are not enough jobs to go around so it is already unfair. Plus at the rate of vanishing resources there will be nothing left to consume. Then what will we do? What kind of society would we have if consumerism wasn't the be all end all.

[Book Lover]

22. Thank you (nm)

[DireStrike]

32. Like it or not eventually we are going to have to deal with overpopulation

We must find an equitable and enforceable way to limit the number of children people can have. The alternatives are horrible.

[Hello_Kitty]

54. The better world you envision is not the one we live in now.

A child you bear is coming into the world as it exists.

[Taitertots]

62. It is your god given responsibility to take care of it n/t

[Codeine]

67. If there will be nothing left to consume

perhaps that's indicative of a problem in your "god-given right to have children" philosophy? Pumping out babies, especially resource-hungry Western babies, is stupid, irresponsible, and destructive. It benefits nobody and saddles us all with someone else's problems.

I would add that "God" does not extend me legal rights, the Constitution does.

[Mojeoux]

83. Well Said Rainy,

Even in the deepest darkest of historic times, people have babies!

[Kali]

13. shit happens

sometimes people start out in a place where life is good and then something happens

it isn't always do to a lack of planning

[devilgrrl]

17. Thank you!!!!

eom

[DireStrike]

35. I don't think that's the concern here

Well, first of all the main concern at that page is probably racism, so that's out of the way.

Now, nobody can say anything about somebody who is a victim of circumstance. I do object to the idea that everyone should be able to have as many kids as they feel like. Society should pressure its members to have no more than two children at this point.

[Hello_Kitty]

58. And not having children at all needs to be a respected choice.

Currently, it is not in most places.

[zappaman]

60. true that!

why is being childless looked upon as so horrible?

[Codeine]

69. Parents want us all to be as miserable and empty as they are.

They hate us for our freedoms! :evilgrin:

[Hello_Kitty]

87. I definitely think that of the really defensive ones. eom

[azul]

40. Emotional subjectivity on the issue aside,

a case is there that humans are out of touch with nature and the environment. When there is a drought or lack of food, animals adjust their numbers by the litter size in response. Not conscious decisions but genetic and physiological limits and changes are triggered to maintain some population balances.

Human agriculture has drastically lessened these natural balance constraints on its fecundity, and now war and disease and starvation just shape its rapid growth. Now it boils down to choice.

It is a huge and difficult question: what human population is the optimum for this planet, in terms of biodiversity, balance, and quality of all life? There is no planet B. The choice is still up to us as individuals to shape our collective future.

Something seems out of balance or overpopulated however when humans rub out other species and kill each other, and then look the other way, IMHO.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

55. Sometimes people are in shitty situations and choose to bring children into it.

Which is a rotten thing to do to a kid, I don't care what any of the pie-eyed Pollyannas here think.

[Codeine]

70. +1!

When people live in poverty and squalor why the fuck are they even CONTEMPLATING putting a small child in that situation with them?

[Kali]

84. who gets to decide what is "poverty and squalor"?

is there going to be an income test or neatness inspection?

[Hello_Kitty]

86. And then we'll do forcible sterilizations and drown the girl babies like in China!!

Because expressing the shocking thought that if you have a crappy life (for whatever reason) having a child may not be the best idea is a slippery slope to totalitarian dystopia. :eyes:

[Kali]

89. well, I mean, now that you bring it up...

seriously though, my strictly personal experience has been one of borderline poverty that is mostly by choice...we live a simple life with out a lot of the trappings of "normal" consumer culture, so there is a concern that some judgmental asshole could come along and declare we aren't doing "enough" for our kids - it was a serious question - who decides?

(also I am a slob, so while there isn't pet shit or food garbage all over the house there sure is a lot of dust and spider webs...is that squalor?)

[Fridays Child]

16. If you go by the photo section, they seem to be all over the map.

Members range from being racist, to anti-abortion, to anti-deadbeat dads, to anti-welfare. Basically, it's just another WTF facebook page but I did have to laugh at this Halloween costume...

[FarCenter]

7. Having a baby is taking on a roughly $200,000 financial obligation

Don't expect someone else to pay for it.

[devilgrrl]

9. Yep - they are such a burden to humanity - better yet, let's kill 'em!

:headbang:

[FarCenter]

24. No, but I'm in favor of mandatory DNA matching to the biological father

And manadatory child support by the father.

[kiranon]

44. Agree. Have a child and abandon it =s permission for DNA testing.

Applies even if the father did not know he sired a child. Some state adoption laws place a duty on a person having sex to check back to make sure no child exists as a result of their having had sex. Not checking back means, in essence, in those states that the father loses his right to object to the adoption. Provisions can be made to make sure there is no issue of danger to the child or the mother if that is an issue should the identity of the child become known. This may be one way to stop the roving stone fathers from leaving so many children to fend for themselves.

[LeFleur1]

26. Birth Control

It isn't like the old days. There is plenty of birth control around. One unplanned child...okay, but I know a single person who has four kids, all different fathers. She's been busted for drug addiction. Some of the kids are drug babies. None of the father's work. Guess who picks up the tab. Jaysus...the kids would be better off with a family that is stable. I really really don't want to have to support her. The kids are here, so we have to support them, but excusing this kind of irresponsible behavior and pretending society is oh so mean to be disgusted with the burden is BS.

[zazen]

39. agreed, but some will call us "eugenicists" for expressing this opinion

Funny, the folks I know who have the strongest anger about multiple unplanned, unsupported kids are social workers in child protective services, people who practically starve for a living to help others in this capitalism-ravaged nation. It's _because_ they care so much about rights and equality for children that they are so angry.

[Ikonoklast]

38. Waste of valuable resources.

Squeeze 'em for baby oil = Profit!

[unabelladonna]

25. ...and what's wrong with that sentiment?

my husband and i decided to have one child in order to be able to give her the best of everything. wouldn't it be nice if everyone felt the same way?

[DireStrike]

31. Nothing at all.

Unfortunately it happens that a lot of the people who say that are hypocrites, who would wag their fingers at a black person with too many kids, and much less so for a white person. They are afraid of being out-reproduced by that inferior race, see.

[Owl]

68. Nothing at all. If you can't afford to raise children you shouldn't have them.

[Barack_America]

30. Isn't that a sister page of "Ban Abortion Now!"

:eyes: <- RW hypocrisy

[Vickers]

36. *reads some of the responses*

*checks URL*

Dang, this really *IS* DU!!!

Who would've thought?

[devilgrrl]

37. Oh, I know. Isn't it something?

:crazy:

[MadHound]

41. Whether you can afford them or not isn't the point.

The point is we simply need to stop reproducing. We've exceeded this planet's carrying capacity, we are using up resources faster than is sustainable. We're quickly approaching the point where we're going to have a massive die off.

Afford them, not afford them, doesn't matter, just stop having kids.

[Missy Vixen]

42. But it's their God-given right!

Nobody else should have an opinion! People should be able to have as many children as they can give birth to! Aaaahhhhh!

There are still 250,000 children languishing in the foster system in the USA. Still.

[Hello_Kitty]

56. But those of us without kids are the "selfish, immature" ones. eom

[pipi_k]

43. I don't see anything wrong with that sentiment to a point

I mean, what's wrong with NOT wanting children to have to live in poverty?

Because we all know it's going to happen, good intentions aside.


If we know our nation's children are NOT going to get adequate food or a good education, or healthcare...that more of them than we want to know about will find themselves selling drugs or their own bodies in order to make a living...

What's wrong with wanting children to be born to parents who can adequately care for them?


Oh, I forget. It's people's "right" to have as many kids as they want to, no matter how those kids have to live.

:eyes:

[dkf]

45. I feel bad for a kid whose mom didn't plan properly.

Where is the sympathy for the little ones? Public support isn't enough for all the stuff a little guy or girl needs.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. Yeah, what's the name of that organization that most DUers think highly of?

Pl...pl... Oh yeah PLANNED PARENTHOOD!

Yet the mere thought of people being expected to, you know, PLAN having their kids better sends people into paroxysms of outrage.

[BlueIris]

79. Ah, yes, because the mother is the only one responsible for planning.

*

[Kali]

85. I would hazard a guess there is a huge proportion of humans running around that weren't planned

adaptability is one of the key strategies that has allowed us as a species to survive and expand
in fact you have inspired two polls!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8394702

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8394725

[treestar]

46. Any person can start a group can't they?

So I don't think this necessarily means society agrees with the sentiment as a whole.

[adoraz]

47. group is fine by me...

IMO you're being WAY too sensitive and reading into it too much.

they aren't specifically calling out the mothers, at least thats not the way I see it.

I see it as calling out the parents in general.... and they're right to an extent.

[devilgrrl]

48. Wouldn't women who didn't plan properly not have a computer either? So what's the point of having a.

facebook group? How will they ever know how angry everyone is with them?

:popcorn:

[frustrated_lefty]

49. Seems like good advice to me.

Don't buy what you can't pay for. What's the problem?

A child is an investment. You, as a parent, invest time, love and caring towards raising that child to be a happy, healthy individual. It boggles my mind that some parents can actually devote that much attention to more than one child. They deserve that much attention, right?

But, let's be clear about this. There are literally millions of children starving in this world we share. We don't have a shortage of babies. We have a shortage of responsible parents.

Until we can care for the children "we" have, I think it is entirely appropriate to argue against breeding.

[branders seine]

50. I don't know from Facebook Groups, but

why is it wrong to encourage people not to have children if they can't afford children they already have?

Sounds like good advice.

Maybe there is content on that page or group that is racist, but the name of the group certainly is not.

[Quantess]

53. Well...there is a point to be made here.

How about some birth control? Some people could really use that advice.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mynameiswhat]

63. I know a friend of my family who has told us straight up she is having another kid

because she can get more money from the government.

[Quantess]

65. Nice 2nd post!

Off to a great start. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[mynameiswhat]

74. Thanks!

[devilgrrl]

66. I know that broad!!! Is this her?

[mynameiswhat]

73. Not bull shit. Just the truth.

[Obamanaut]

75. Sometimes you need to sugar coat the truth to make it go down

easier.

[mynameiswhat]

77. Ok, don't believe me. I know its true with this one person.

[Obamanaut]

82. Oh, but I do. But to get others to, it must be much sweeter. nt

[Dappleganger]

76. O RLY?????

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. honestly people are idiots especially those who have facebook pages in all caps

[paparush]

71. I deactivated my FB account 2 weeks ago and haven't looked back.

Zuckerberg is a lying fuck.

[BlueIris]

80. Good for you.

I will never use Facebook for any reason.

[krabigirl]

78. I bet these people are anti-choice, too.

[BlueIris]

81. Nasty misogynist threads like this one are always good for fleshing out my Ignore list.

Ew.

[McCamy Taylor]

88. Free abortions for everyone! Wheee!

:bounce: :toast:

[dana_b]

90. an offshoot of: MAKING DRUG TEST MANDATORY FOR WELFARE

http://www.facebook.com/pages/everywhere/MAKING-DRUG-TEST-MANDATORY-FOR-WELFARE/371578558326

These people are vicious. The reason I found out about it is because my nephew "Like"s it. :( I'll have to talk to that boy.

Instead I joined: Mandatory-drug-testing-for-Corporate-welfare That one maes more sense to me. :)
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mandatory-drug-testing-for-Corporate-welfare/121317061225727?ref=ts&v=wall

[Kerrytravelers]

92. That one is bad, too.

I looked at the "discussions" one time and nearly lost my lunch.