20,000 Greeks march to Parliament, close schools, halt ferries and trains

[marmar]

20,000 people in Greek protest march to parliament
20,000 people march to Greece's parliament protesting austerity measures

Elena Becatoros, Associated Press Writer, On Thursday May 20, 2010, 7:00 am


ATHENS, Greece (AP) -- More than 20,000 protesters marched to parliament Thursday, as unions challenged harsh austerity measures in Greece by staging their fourth general strike this year.

Riot police held back demonstrators chanting "Thieves, thieves!" Store owners closed up and lowered protective shutters before the march got under way.

Police deployed 1,700 officers and detained 36 people in an early show of force after violent protests two weeks ago left three people dead in a bank fire.

The strike closed schools, halted ferries and trains, and kept hospitals running on emergency staff. The Acropolis and other ancient sites were also shut.

Unions are protesting harsh measures imposed by the cash-strapped government. During Greece's last general strike May 5, three workers -- including a pregnant woman -- died when a bank was torched by rioters. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/20000-people-in-Greek-protest-apf-3228697445.html?x=0

[xchrom]

1. Recommend

[exboyfil]

2. Fine don't take the bailout money

You get one bite at the default apple. Run you government on a cash basis after the default.

[Zynx]

3. If they have a solution to their 8.5% of GDP primary deficit, I'm all ears.

[FLPanhandle]

4. Protest all they want, what's their solution that doesn't involve austerity measures?

Cut spending and accept the EU bailout or Cut spending and default. Those are the only two paths open. The time to protest the government was when they were spending without any plan on getting revenue.

I've never seen one person who supports the protests against austerity measures that has a solution that doesn't involve reduced government spending.

[girl gone mad]

7. Now you've seen at least 3.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=9533

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/05/should-greece-follow-argentinas-playbook.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/auerback02122010.html

Many more if you care for serious discussion on the matter rather than far-right platitudes.

[FLPanhandle]

10. Still haven't seen even one that doesn't involve cuts in government spending

Your first link says that the entire monetary structure of the EU is flawed (something I've been saying for years). It says the bailout won't be a longterm solution (again, I agree). The solution of “debt monetisation” doesn't address the underlying problem (the article even admits that). The other suggestion of radical devaluation of the Euro, still means that Greece has to climb out of debt and cuts will have to happen.

Second link suggests following the Argentian model. Work with the creditors to partially payback loans and get out of the EU (I agree). However, the Argentinian model required spending cuts and associated inflation (which is like a spending cut as their money doesnt' purchase as much).

The third link mostly bashes the entire EU model but beyond bailing out of the EU (still doesn't allow Greece to avoid cuts), there is nothing there.


Show me ONE solution that at the end of the day doesn't have spending cuts by the government. So far you are 0 for 3. The best solution you presented is just LESS cuts than the EU is demanding. None of them allows Greece to spend as before.

[BR_Parkway]

13. Seems like a place to start would be to make sure the debt is legit

and not something that was fraudulently constructed. There've already been reports about a number of banks that were using all sorts of shady practices with government financing strategies (as well as every other area of finances it seems).

If the debt wasn't incurred legally, then it's wiped out - not defaulted.

[girl gone mad]

14. There is no need to cut spending if they abandon the Eurozone.

Japan = debt much greater than Greece, yet no solvency crisis.

Not really too complicated.

At least two of the people linked above advocate increasing government spending. Greece had already been cutting government spending and it only deepened the recession.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. No, it's much more complicated than that

At the moment, Greek government spending is well above revenue. Leaving the Euro would allow their new currency to devalue, which would push up the price of imports, but make exports more competitive. So in the short term, it'd mean some inflation, but in the long term should mean more jobs. But it'll take time for those jobs, and the associated tax revenue from them, to appear. In the mean time they'd still be spending more than they take in - and would have to fund that from loans, probably denominated in foreign currencies (Euros or dollars, for instance), which would be expensive.

Japan's government deficit isn't as big as Greece's (9.2% of GDP, compared to 13.6%), and Japan still has a current account surplus, so they have foreign income available to service debts. Greece, on the other hand, has a huge current account deficit, worse, on either a per capita or per GDP basis, than the US, UK or pretty much any other sizeable country.

The other option for Greece, it seems to me, is to get serious about collecting taxes, especially from the rich. Leaving the Euro, and the subsequent inflation, would also impose a form of austerity that would help without making the government quite so obviously to blame for it. A cut in defence spending would help too.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Greece's unemployment rate jumped to 12.1% this month

Japans jumped to 5% this month.

Hard to compare the two.

Don

[David__77]

8. The Communist Party of Greece has a good proposal.

http://inter.kke.gr/News/2010news/2010-05-12-sinenteyxi/

And their poll numbers are skyrocketing to historic highs. It is entirely possible that they will supplant PASOK as the main left party.

[FLPanhandle]

11. It's not a solution to stop the spending cuts that the protesters are up in arms about though.

The idea "Dump the debt, dump the finance sector, and use the real wealth that’s left to reconfigure society along the economically simplified lines". The only real idea is the first one and I'd add in bailing out of the EU and taking control of their own currency. That and restructuring and enforcing their tax codes

However, even the Communist Party admits "There will be hardship regardless". So, again, what's the solution that doesn't involve cuts in government spending?

EVERY solution requires cuts. It's just a matter of how deep the cuts will be (harsh or really harsh).

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. I presume that would be socialization of those areas of the economy without compensation

because they don't have the money to compensate the capitalist owners, and no-one will lend them it. It could work, but it is a dramatic move.

[malaise]

5. The markets are about to have a rude awakening

across the planet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10129624.stm

[girl gone mad]

6. I can't help but feel..

our future is on the line, too.

Hope they can tell the IMF to take a hike.

[Selatius]

9. Why not force the banks who sold corrupt derivatives pay for Greece's bailout??? nt