Here's the thing about the outrageous behavior of LAPD

[cboy4]

officers during that immigration rally debacle.

This latest incident bothered me so much, I talked to a friend who works patrol for the Los Angeles Police Department.

He flat out admitted they hardly get any riot/crowd control training in the academy.

They're mostly trained on how to handle calls for service and write reports. (as well as, of course, firearms training & basic arrest control techniques.)

I mean, is it any wonder why there's such a problem with excessive force during peace, immigration and civil rights marches/demonstrations!?

And I'm not just talking about the behavior of L.A. police officers.

I see it happen in plenty of other cities.

When you have cops even going after journalists, as what just happened in L.A., boy oh boy....something needs to be fixed.

This is completely unacceptable, and apologies by police chiefs are not enough.

[Lerkfish]

1. the police chief was suffering from Gonzodisease....blaming his underlings

Obviously, when a PEACEFUL demonstration is met by riot gear equipped police numbering in the hundreds if not thousands, there is no freakin way the chief is unaware of it. The logistics alone, of getting all the police coordinated, dressed and equipped takes several hours. Riot gear is not the normal issue, they have to come downtown to the headquarters to pick that stuff up.
Not to mention OVERTIME. there is NO WAY the chief did not know EXACTLY what was going to go down.

they were counting on it being just "brown people" and that no one else would care.

This was a dry run, folks, of martial law.

[Donnachaidh]

2. Blaming no training? How about personally practicing SELF CONTROL?

Once again let's palm off the problem to no *training*. I guess these guys are ssooooo stupid you put a shield in front of them, and hand them guns, and all they want to do is run amok beating people up.

Put a blue uniform on and you have carte blanche to pound people into the ground -- because you've had no training in crowd control. But looking at the tapes -- it wasn't the CROWD that was the problem.

It was the LAPD. Grown men acting like animals - reaching for excuses for in-excusable brutality.

:grr:

[cboy4]

3. I agree with you that there is no excuse for their behavior.

But there is such a thing as crowd control tactics and the need to learn them.

Of course, some officers are natural hot heads, but I believe the lack of training factored into this horrible situation.

[RedCappedBandit]

12. No, you don't need training to know -

that shooting people and beating them with clubs for no reason, especially women and children, is wrong. You don't need training to know that throwing expensive camera equipment on the ground is wrong and opressive.
Especially as police officers, they should be able to show more restraint. Who gives these hotheads positions of power?

[cboy4]

30. I'm not arguing that part. Of course anyone should know better

not to attack unarmed people with rubber bullets and sticks.

What I'm saying is the officers, who are mostly used to taking reports for Mrs. Smith who had her home burglarized, need better crowd control training.

And my LAPD friend (who was not part of this outrageous incident) told me they don't get that training.

[Donnachaidh]

13. Having lived through the last riots

There doesn't seem to be much change in the area of mindset with these people. You can train all you want, but if the men wearing the uniforms are animals to begin with? :shrug:

[Richard Steele]

22. I haven't had any such training, either. And yet, I've never beaten any reporters.

Odd, innit?

One might almost conclude that the "lack of crowd-control training"
isn't what makes me different from those LAPD officers.

[Donnachaidh]

26. Exactly!

We have how many cities in this country having demonstrations over the war and the immigration issues. Why is it that we're only seeing extreme violence in LOS ANGELES?

Time to start firing from TOP to Bottom. They evidently didn't do enough cleanup after the riots. Dig the infection OUT entirely this time.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

28. Dick, are you a LEO?

Because if you are, then I would say that what is different is the culture of your department.

[Richard Steele]

29. Lol, my first thought was, "What does my astrological sign have to do with this?"

Then I figured it out! :silly:

No I'm not, so it really isn't a DIRECTLY valid comparison
that I made there. But I'm certain there are PLENTY of LOEs
out there for whom it is.

And the difference is, as you say, the "culture" of the Dept.
they belong to.

[cboy4]

32. And I'm sure not every LAPD officer was guilty of going nuts

on those people.

That's not what I'm arguing.

[tavalon]

36. Well spoken

Thanks.

Yeah, I think that police work often attracts a certain type of individual (the kind that enjoys having control over others).

[UTUSN]

4. K&R #2 n/t

[Selatius]

5. Let me guess. Los Angeles, like many others, has no civilian oversight boards of the police?

I believe all major cities should have civilian oversight boards to formally monitor police departments in case they violate civil rights or get out of line.

[cboy4]

34. LAPD does have one:

http://www.lapdonline.org/police_commission/content_basic_view/900

<snip>

he Board of Police Commissioners, originally created in the 1920’s, is comprised of five civilians who donate their time to the City while maintaining their professional careers. They are appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council.

[tavalon]

37. For some reason

I read that website as "lapdogonline.org". I was going to comment that having lap dogs for oversight wasn't the best idea. Then I reread it and caught my mistake. :blush:

[Buzz Clik]

6. There's a short video on another thread. The cops broke up a picnic, not a riot.

These people were middle class folks cooking food on barbeque grills. They weren't a seething mob of angry militants.

The only mob involved also had uniforms and tremendous fire power.

[Kolesar]

7. California cops had a reputation for pulling over motorcyclists &beating them up for the Hell of it

"Hell's Angels", Hunter S. Thompson

[shraby]

8. Lack of training is a poor excuse.

Human decency is at issue here as it was in Abu Ghraib. Persons in authority should know better than go after a peaceful crowd with weapons as well as should know better than to torture. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened in both cases. NONE.

[cboy4]

35. I agree lack of training is a poor excuse for beating the hell out of

peaceful demonstrators.

I'm saying better training could prevent more of these incidents.

You never know.

[lazer47]

9. This is just more proof that we should all just give up

and hand in our guns,,the police will protect us,, we have nothing to fear from the Government,,:sarcasm:

[RedCappedBandit]

11. This is the only issue

preventing me from being even more against guns.

[crikkett]

17. guys- what would have happened if someone pulled a gun on those cops?

It would have justified their behavior!
It would have removed any sense of outrage and any chance to right this.
It would have hastened martial law, not prevented it.


Guns make things worse. Come on, think about this. It's not Red Dawn here...

[lazer47]

18. What would have happened if it had been 500 guns,

That is the real question,,,,,

[RedCappedBandit]

40. If people were always pulling guns on abusive cops,

i'm sure there wouldn't be a problem with such abuse in this country ;)

I'm not saying the issue is black and white, obviously there will always be issues. But, like I already said, shit like this is what makes me glad I have the right to own weapons.

[RedCappedBandit]

10. Yes, it is such a wonder why theres such a problem

Where the fuck do these public servants come off with the idea that they have the right to beat innocent american citizens and damage their property? Its ABSURD.

[lazer47]

14. It is time to wake up and smell the coffee

do you really think that once they have the power that they will just "willy nilly" give it up??I am not an alarmist,or a conspiracy nut,, however I do know people once they have the power and once you have nothing left to fight back with,, they can do anything they want.

[CrispyQ]

19. People will not take to the streets until they have nothing left to lose.

I agree completely with what you say about those in power not giving it up. I try not to let my imagination get carried away with what will happen between now & '08.

[DemGa]

15. Wow, that cop looks like a modern-day Nazi stormtrooper

But really, it's only natural to go after someone video-recording your crimes. :sarcasm:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. This sort of thing...

Has been going on with the LAPD since time immemorial. One has to look at the history of the LAPD to be informed of the culture that will not die, in it. LAPD was first started with out-of-work oil field workers from Oklahoma, way back when. These guys were the roughest of the roughnecks and acted like it. They were well-known for breaking heads as an answer to everything. Racism in the ranks was well-represented. Their's was a culture apart from the rest of Los Angeles.

When the entertainment industry started getting established out there, problems grew, since it attracted its own underclass. People were attracted by the possibility of fame and fortune. Few attained it, and were left to make their livings in less savory ways. Corruption grew on the LAPD, especially since where you have the entertainment industry, you have the mob. Also, the poorly-paid LAPD had a real hardon about the well-to-do. For many years, they had a secret operation that collected intelligence on prominent figures in the business, and were not above using collected information for leverage. Others might call it blackmail. This also interfaced with their "Red Squad" activities, because they used this leverage, based upon the weaknesses of people on whom they had collected information, to get them to make statements. Sadly, in these situations, any statement will do, accuracy be damned.

Gates was the only Chief that the ranks really liked. He had come from the ranks, was a product of their unique culture and defended their actions without fail. Since his retirement, they have burned through a lot of people who have tried to make reformations. The culture of the LAPD resists. They know only one way.

I suggest that you all find some of the good books on the history of the LAPD. They are quite illuminating.

[meldroc]

24. Reminds me of the Oakland PD.

IIRC, the Oakland PD deliberately did all their recruiting in the Deep South - in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. They filled their ranks with good ol' boys for decades. I'd imagine they might have even done some recruiting at Klan rallies.

Don't think Oakland's the only PD that did this...

Police departments like this need to be burned to the ground, the earth on which they stood salted, then the cities should just start over.

[madmom]

20. it is my opinion that this was all premeditated because why else

would so many of them be ready in full riot gear? who gave the fucking order??

[WinkyDink]

21. Excess is in, its being post-9/11, dontcha know?

[EFerrari]

23. The sense of entitlement that allows them to beat up on the press

is a cause for concern. I thought the same thing.

[Skidmore]

25. LAPD is habitually out of control

How many times must the excessive use of force on the part of this force be tolerated. We've been here, done that so many times in the past that it is shameful.

[cboy4]

33. It's not just LAPD, even though there are some serious problems

with that agency.

Seattle P.D. and Miami P.D. were also out of control during the WTO demonstrations.

SEATTLE P.D.


MIAMI P.D.


And I know I'm forgetting out other departments.

[Gregorian]

27. This is trickle-down violence.

There is no doubt that this is how Abu Ghraib violence came to be.

In world war two we had movie theaters for the POW's. So what changed?

I'll tell you what changed. Corporations. We're doing this for them. Pot is illegal because of it. They wanted cotton. And the big pharmaceuticals don't want it around. And it's not taxed. That's just pot!

This kind of action is done by explicit and tacit behavior from the top on down. And of course it's the exception. Now.

When I saw this footage I was asking myself "This is America?".

Edit- This is Indonesia? This is Iraq? This is Iran in 1953? This is Panama in 1989?

[Disturbed]

31. What excuse does a Police Officer give for beating

a person that is on the ground? The ones that were doing this need to be charged with assault.

[Gregorian]

39. They're trained. And pressured.

I see people like this all of the time. I saw them today. They aren't cops. But if they were...

Life has become less valuable.

They're trained by the society we live in. They don't give a shit. They don't care. It's just brute force. It's whoever can make the biggest impact. Like George. Just drop bombs. Just swing a night stick. Crack a head. And they're tacitly pressured. They know they can get away with it. They are working for the corporations, and they don't even know it.

And just like the US attorney scandal, they will be given a free pass. But just smoke a joint, or go 61 mph in a 55 zone, and you get full force of the law. We're living in twisted times. But they've always been twisted. The rich versus the regular people.

Just ask who these cops are protecting. And just see how many of these kind of actions result in the same justice as what we experience as standard citizens. You go bust a head and see what happens. There's your answer.

[Cleita]

38. Also, when I lived in L.A., the rookies right out of the academy

were sent to inner city precincts like Wilshire Division apprenticed to older and usually racist veterans. They are taught to hate the poor people of color as criminals and gang bangers right from the beginning. There is a really bad culture that needs to be changed there. I haven't lived in L. A. for fifteen years, but it seems nothing has changed.

[Raine]

41. I'm sure they underwent riot training

before the 2000 Democratic convention so I can't believe that's the problem.

Edit: Spelling

[cboy4]

43. Raine, I can only relay what my friend told me. He contends that

the 9,000+ sworn members of the Los Angeles Police Department do not receive adequate training on how to deal with riots/crowd control.

He joined the department as a patrol officer after the 2000 convention, so he was not part of that enforcement.

As stated in my OP, I find what these LAPD officers did appalling....but perhaps better, more intensive training would have helped.

An LAPD officer friend, who is a very decent person (and happens to be progressive like us) feels so.

[Raine]

44. I'm sure that no matter what

they need better training. I have no idea how good the training that they get is and Los Angeles seems to be prone to all kinds of upheavals. I live in the county of Los Angeles and the running 'joke' (even printed on postcards) is that LA has four seasons...fires, floods, earthquakes and riots.

[ConsAreLiars]

42. Dress up macho boys in stormtrooper costumes and sic them on a crowd of any sort, and

this is what you get. Police riots are all too common, and given that most are trained in the military with "Kill! Kill!" chants, and given a police establishment that has been racist from the beginning, well, there is a lot that needs to be fixed. This is one more case in point.

(edit typo)