With what Apple charges for their computers, why aren't they made here?

[DainBramaged]

They use the IDENTICAL COMPONENTS that PC manufacturers use, IDENTICAL. I just bought a WD Velociraptor HD out of a used Apple tower. It will go in a PC as soon as I get it.


It ain't right.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. Coz they pay a gazillion dollars to some megalomaniac graphic designer so the case looks REAL COOL!

There may be other causes.

[gmoney]

61. ...the cases that the PC manufacturers knock off 6 months later?

Apple computers are generally very minimal and functional -- arrange the components logically and efficiently, yet still make it simple to access the innards as needed. They got rid of the floppy drive ages ago, and I don't know that anyone misses them.

They're not perfect... for some reason, their CD/DVD drives have always lagged a little behind the state of the art. I'm really hoping by the end of the year they'll announce the next gen of desktops which will have Blu-Ray player/burner standard. They overcharge for RAM, but you can't buy a box with NO RAM so if you want to max it out, you end up having extra RAM that nobody else wants. The aluminum cases of the recent laptops are a little too prone to getting scratched or stained or whatever, but then again, they're just tools which are supposed to get a little dirty.

I'm not an evangelist for them anymore, but I still feel good about using mine. They just work for me. And I encounter virtually no virus problems.

[The Damned]

75. I have a new laptop,

and, sometimes, it actually WORKS!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Better profit margins that way.

That's also why they're overpriced.

[Xenotime]

4. Apple is an excellent progressive, green company

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Yes, they're leaders in latest sweatshop progress.

In countries some of which are still somewhat green.

[Lucian]

22. Hahahahahahahaha...

you're funny.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Odin2005]

23. A progressive corporation is an oxymoron.

It's like calling a lenient slave owner a "progressive slave owner". Corporate Capitalism is an inherently evil and unprogressive system.

[Xenotime]

70. Maybe you should read this.......

http://www.apple.com/environment/

Show me another tech company doing so much for the environment?

[Elwood P Dowd]

74. It makes no difference to the Apple hating firing squad on DU.

If Steve Jobs found a cure for cancer, they would still trash him. You would think with dems like Jobs and Gore involved with Apple the haters would let up, but no such luck. Republican Michael Dell is NEVER subjected to this level of hate here.

[Xenotime]

101. Excellent point.

[Dreamer Tatum]

80. Helps offset all they do TO the environment. HOW many iPods have they built and sold? nt

[WeDidIt]

106. Two can play that game

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/environment/

By your standards, IBM is the greenest company on the face of the planet.

[Xenotime]

136. Why do you think IBM is greener than Apple?

[frustrated_lefty]

112. New England Biolabs

Tangential to the topic, but environmentally sound tech companies do deserve kudos, particularly when they've chosen to pursue those policies on their own initiative.

http://www.neb.com/nebecomm/environmentalPolicy.asp?find_category=&find_description=&find_part_desc=

They're not really known outside of biotech, but they're a prime example of how a successful business model can be entirely compatible with "green" policy. I've used their products for over two decades now, and they've always worked this way. It's part of what inspires their customer loyalty.

Sorry for the tangent, I just think it's useful to point of the success of eco-friendly business, particularly in the realm of high-tech.

[DainBramaged]

146. And you believe them?

:spray:

Apple Admits Child Labor & Sweatshops Used to Build iPhones

http://humantrafficking.change.org/blog/view/apple_admits_child_labor_sweatshops_used_to_build_iphones



Remember the factory that Apple uses to build some of its iPods that got the company in trouble? It now appears that Cupertino will conduct a "thorough audit" of the Foxconn-operated factory in China.

The audit focuses on "employee working and living conditions, interviews of employees and managers, compliance with overtime and wage regulations, and other areas as necessary to insure adherence to Apple's supplier code of conduct" according to an Apple spokesman.

Interesting that Apple should decide to do a complete investigation of the factory in question, especially after being so tight-lipped about it in the beginning. Has anyone's opinion of Apple changed as a result of the allegations?

http://gizmodo.com/182085/apple-to-audit-beleaguered-china-factory

[onehandle]

113. What are you typing this on? Maybe you should live in the woods on nuts and berries. nt

[Radical Activist]

91. They quit the US Chamber of Commerce because of the Chamber's opposition to climate change laws.

My next computer will be a Mac.

[onehandle]

114. Don't bother. Apple haters hate Apple. Period. nt

[SocialistLez]

5. Pretty much. Expensive little toys. NT

[SocialistLez]

3. I'm considering UnionbuiltPC.com

In any case, they aren't made here because Apple gets to keep more of the profit if they pay people in China pennies on the dollar compared to what it would cost to build the computer in the United States.

[OKNancy]

6. I love my new Systemax

Their site says:
Assembled & Supported in the USA
All our Systemax products are proudly built and supported in the USA in our Ohio facility.

I got one where I customized it. Got everything I wanted for under $900.00

[Tesha]

14. Now investigate where the subassemblies were built and where the chips were made.

By the time you get down to the chips, I *GUARANTEE YOU* that they
were packaged in the Far East and the silicon dies were probably
manufactured there as well.

There's no such thing as a "made in America" PC, even if the motherboard
*WAS* screwed into the case here.

Tesha

[Abq_Sarah]

19. I'm not going to make the perfect the enemy of the good

All assembly, tech support and service are in the USA.

[Tesha]

20. "All assembly"? All twenty seven screws? Wow!

It's very likely that 99.99% of the skilled labor that went into
building your system was done in the Far East.

Tesha

[Abq_Sarah]

26. Okay, I understand you're an apple fan

That doesn't mean every other computer is a piece of shit.

Where was your computer assembled?

[Tesha]

40. Well tell me: What *EXACTLY* did "building your own computer" entail? (NT)

[Abq_Sarah]

93. What on earth

Does that have to do with my question?

[Tesha]

96. I'm sorry, I mispoke. Please take my question as re-phrased:

How much direct labor does this "American vendor" provide?
How much direct labor was already embodied in all the components
for which they provide the "final assembly"?

I'll bet 99.99% of the labor is already embodied in the product by
the time it reaches the "American vendor".

And I'll further bet that that 99.99% of the labor was Asian.

Tesha

[Abq_Sarah]

16. I have a 2.5 year old

Systemax desktop. I also customized it and made sure it could be upgraded as well.

I love it.

[Touchdown]

8. So... You should only buy sweatshop computers if you can get a bargain?

Chinese made/child labor is ok as long as you get a "deal", right?

answer... Yes, they should move back to the US, and so should every other computer maker.

[tridim]

9. Because Apple users will pay whatever Jobs tells them to pay..

Often even before trying out the product.

It's easy to market to a cult.

Sorry Apple users for saying that, I really am. It gave me chills when I typed it.

[Posteritatis]

47. +1 (nt)

[Initech]

10. I'll never buy a desktop I can't build myself.

Laptops are an entirely different story.

[Tesha]

15. So how fine-pitch a board can you solder chips onto?

Oh! By "build", you mean screwing some components into case and
plugging-together some connectors. I see.

Tesha

[Initech]

31. Yeah I never exactly took a circuitry class.

Besides you wont be able to find parts like motherboards or video cards that weren't built in China - you will not get around that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. Oh great, computer macho

"I build my own computer and do everything in machine language."

Yeah, yeah. Who cares?

[Initech]

82. Machine language? WTF?

I use Windows just like everybody else! :eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. Exaggeration to make a point

"I build my own computer."

Well, whoopdedoo. It's sheer macho posturing.

You know, I've never seen or heard women brag, "I sew all my own clothes. You idiots who buy clothes made with child labor..."

[Book Lover]

103. Lydia, maybe it's because I build my own computers too, but

I am really surprised by this highly uncharacteristic tone you have in this post. Am I also a macho poseur because I like to personally determine what components comprise my computer?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

108. It's a reaction to twenty years of hearing PC zealots

act all superior to us Mac users, as if there's something inferior about those of us who use Macs because we don't tinker with computers just for the sake of tinkering with computers or because we don't build our own.

"It's the 'you Mac users are stupid because you could be building your own computers and using Windows like us REAL computer users'" attitude that annoys me.

I wasn't speaking to you in particular, but to everyone on the thread who has that attitude.

[Initech]

110. I'm not a PC zealot. Hell I'm using my iPhone to write this post.

I used to have a mac for the longest time. It's only been in the last year that I've been upgrading and switched to PC because not only were they cheaper but they had a lot of the functions I wanted that even the newer macs lacked.

[onehandle]

115. Exactly. Good for them. and Who cares? nt

[TommyO]

11. Which of the other major computer manufacturers builds their systems here?

[Touchdown]

13. Not the point. They'll only buy 12 year old chinese girl being raped computers if it's priced right.

:eyes:

[Tesha]

12. Probably for the exact same reasons *YOUR* corporation has sent so much of its production...

...out of the country.

Why did *YOU* do it?

Tesha

[JackintheGreen]

17. You're right. So buy components, build your own, install Linux.

What's that gonna be, like $50? :evilgrin:


Seriously, though, I've been using linux distros off and on for 5 years, and if my wife didn't adamantly refuse to migrate the desktop I'd drop commercial distros altogether.

I am not a wonk, and I still don't understand a lot about computers, but there are enough out of the box distros out there now that MS and Apple should (but never will) be very afraid. Sadness.

[hunter]

63. My Linux computers are made of trash.

I don't buy computers anymore. I don't even buy many components except for the occasional compact flash to ide adapter, usb memory stick, and stuff like that.

Linux distros using LXDE and other lightweight desktop environments can lift an old Windows 98 machine into the modern world.

My old laptop is held together with duct tape and hot glue and it has a Windows 98 license on the bottom but it runs Linux with modern web browsers, wireless, and most everything else just fine.

Of course if everybody was like me I wouldn't be finding computers in the trash.

My desktop computer says "Designed for Windows 2000 Professional / Windows 98." It runs Debian.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. You're being quite green, you know. As green as you can be while still having Internet access. -nt

:thumbsup:

[Occulus]

78. I've a feeling that thing will last forever.

Linux is very, very scalable. It runs well on crap hardware. It absolutely screams on modern systems.

To kill Micro$oft once and for all, the linux community needs to convince game developers to write binaries for systems running OpenGL in addition to or instead of DirectX. If they pull that off, Micro$oft will die among home users.

PC gamers are often computer savvy. Many of them already embrace linux. WINE is their stopgap solution. Fallout 3, developed for OpenGL?

Win.

[JackintheGreen]

109. You made my point even better

I'm running Xfce on an old Dell. Wicked fast. And I don't game. I have a hard time finding components, though. I mean free ones. Plenty of used cheap ones, though.

[lxlxlxl]

18. stock dividends just like HP, Dell, and Cisco

its pretty easy to answer this, but I dont know why you single out apple

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. What are you talking about?

Apple hasn't paid dividends to stockholders in years.

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. Takes a lot of plowed earnings to invent the 500th iPod version nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

37. I don't see what that has to do with the original assertion, which was false. n/t

[Odin2005]

21. Because they are just another corporate parasite.

[Lucian]

24. I don't understand why people will buy Apple computers...

when there are far better computers for a fraction of the price.

[Tesha]

25. That would be because:

1. Many of us have used all those other computers you're
talking about and we think you're wrong in proclaiming
them better, and

2. Your computers seem to need an awful lot of "dinking
around" to keep them running happily, and we place some
value on our time. Apple computers tend not to waste our
time with much need for "dinking around".

Tesha

[Lucian]

32. I've never had to "dink around" with my computer.

It has run just fine for me. And my laptop is way better than any Apple out there, and I paid only $1,000 for it. Way better. I compared the specs for them. The facts are there.

I'm guessing a lot of Apple computer users just don't know how to run a PC.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. Based on their commercials, Apples are for people who do nothing but

edit videos, pictures, and music with their computers.

I'm a research statistician, so I use my computer for actual work. No one I know in my line of work uses
Apple toys. Yeah, the PowerMac is a beast, but I just don't seem to edit HD video that often.

[Touchdown]

42. So who's the snob now?

"I'm a research statistician..." So what makes you more important, and a better use of oxygen than a photographer, film maker or musician? And why is that your computer and your spreadsheet programs tools, and Final Cut, Photoshop, Illustrator, In Design and Aperture (software that has an actual learning curves) "Toys"?

"Do nothing but..." You seem to be doing fine talking shit on your "professional computer" just as well as you can enter data.

[Tesha]

44. (Don't mind them)

I often note that photographs of actual scientists doing actual scientific
work often show Macintoshes (of various kinds) in the background.
Apparently, all those codes that used to be run on Unix-running
Sunstations now run just fine on Unix-running Macintoshes.

So Mr. Statistician actually seems to be a statistical outlier. ;)

Tesha

[Touchdown]

48. I'm just wasting time while my useless new toy syncs up with useless shit

on a useless toy USB cable (wait! It's not supposed to have that!), so I can eat KFC and waste 15 minutes on it and stick it in the closet, because it's useless... and doesn't have Flash.

Here's a clue for them. Macs are good at editing video, so I have no need for Flash, since I know how to convert video to any format I want, and sync what I want, which includes Avatar into this useless, oversized iPod Touch that doesn't do Flash and is poop!

One thing that Windows people are guilty of dumbing down Apple's products are... Forcing all Apple's mobile devices to go with USB, instead of Firewire. I'd have this iPad sync'd twice if it was Firewire, but NOOOOOO! Windows people need to have their agonizingly slow connector asses kissed.:eyes:

[Lucian]

54. Hahaha.

You Apple people remind me of small, spoiled children.

[Touchdown]

67. Children?

You seem too be taking great joy in taunting others because of a fucking computer choice you don't approve of.

Did you clean your room yet, Lucky?

[Dreamer Tatum]

77. If there's anything slowing this world down, it's those slow syncs of Lady Gaga songs.

I guess what annoys me about Mac people is that they can't just enjoy their computers in silence: they have to bleat out how much better they are than any machine running Windows. Meanwhile, I say again: I've yet to meet a scientist who uses a Mac. I've yet to walk into a client's office to find Macs on the desks (then again, I don't work on TV and movie sets). Oh well...I guess I'm just a square.

[Touchdown]

89. Fucking Bullocks!

You show your silly ass in every Mac/iSomething thread to give your 2¢ and more every chance you get, and it all boils down to one message you have. You hate Apple, and you think the people who own them are stupid and deserve to be eaten by bears. It's you and a dozen of the same names... every fucking time. Annd none of you ever say anything new.


Maybe our "bleating" is merely a likewise hostile response to your never ending adolescent (my shit's better than yours and I spent less!) hostility. We would STFU and enjoy ourselves in silence, but you and your 12 never shut up yourselves.

I didn't say anything about his job, or scientists/University choices in computer platforms. All I said was that the Statistician seems to think he's more important to the world than musicians, film makers and photographers. Sure, his expertise is part of the 3 Rs, but that doesn't mean mathematicians are better than other people.

[PatGund]

132. Funny thing that...

When I worked at the Salk Institute up until 2005, they were 98% Macintosh. I saw a LOT of scientists - including a couple Nobel Prize winners - with Macintoshes. Including a lot of them doing statistical analysis on the Mac.

Then I worked at Weil Cornell Medical School in Qatar. All Macintosh. As was the Qatar Texas A&M branch there.

Coming back to the United States, and I worked in migrating laptops at ICANN from Dell to Apple.

Moved to Seattle, and found myself in several law offices that were all Mac based. Not to mention the Apple XServe and XSAN array used for video, graphic production and product design at this Redmond, Washington company called "Microsoft". (who also happen to be the largest developer for the Macintosh next to Apple themselves.)

[Confusious]

94. Which ones would those be?

As someone whose friend does actual "scientific work" they don't use MACs, they use linux.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. YOu can use the Mac to do exactly what you do

and the tools are there.

I write fiction, and now non-fiction, and both the mac and the netbook are well suited for it.

Hell if you want to run... I don't know excel on it... you can on both.

They emphasize what they do since their market is much younger than you or me... and it is the coolness factor.

You are almost sounding like my niece... who I laughed at. You should know that ... MACS are the only machines capable of running the software she uses for... web editing. It happens to be dreamweaver... and Adobe releases it for both platforms. That said, the Mac platform has a slight leg up on the management of graphics, and it has all to do with the UNIX kernel it uses.

She was like surprised and shit when I told her that I've run dreameaver on both a Mac and a Win machine.

:hi:

On and for some of the shit you do, which I am guessing uses a server... and if high end a super computer... well the OS of choice in the back many a times is a UNIX based system. Guess what the Mac runs? A unix branch.

[Dreamer Tatum]

76. Know what else works works for fiction? A pencil and paper. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Of course but I cannot read what I write anymore

fact is that what you do, both machines are capable of doing it.

And yes, you are sounding like my niece, or a GITT OF MY LAWN!!!!!

But if you go to ANY mac store, I happen to have one near by... pay attention to the average age of the customers...

It is either young, college students... I mean it is cool... and some colleges require kids to get macs, see Arts programs...

Or older, as in senior citizens. A mac is far more secure and EASIER for them to use it.

I hate these fucking OS wars... especially since the modern mac and the modern PC run just about 90% of the same exact software... for productivity... now games... let's not go there, but i doubt you use your high end work machine for games anyway.

:sarcasm:

Oh and as more and more of the market place is taken over by Mac... you will see viruses and trojans actually like start attacking the OS. But that is another story.

[Dreamer Tatum]

84. The only marketplace Apple will take over is the one for electronic toys

which is fine. Everything has a purpose.

ps - I build my own computers from soup to nuts, for the fun of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Remind me, exactly where was Apple a few years ago?

There is room for growth... not only that, there is room for BOTH in the market place, since they aim at slightly different markets...

And you have a GIT OF MY LAWN LOOK AT ME, I KEN BUILD MY COMPUTERS FROM SCRATCH attitude.

It is as annoying as that of the fanboys for the Macs who go... look at me, I am running a superior OS... ok whatever... same fucking attitude actually.

I am just pointing this to you... just like the fanboys have never seen a Tablet before the IPAD... points to the HP Tablet I bought in 2001, just recently gave the ghost... the fact that you have never seen anybody in your field using a Mac does not mean they are not used. Or for that matter that they are toys.

People doing silly shit like 3D modeling are not playing games... just like you are not playing games.


Oh in some ways the Mac is a BETTER platform... like it or not... in others it is the PC... but increasingly, an APPLE enterprise or a Windows Enterprise, they run the SAME FUCKING SOFTWARE... capiche?

What is the damn little chip (huge actually) on that shoulder? Did a mac piss on your wheaties?

By the way I am glad you can eat bolts for breakfast, and code in your sleep. At one time I actually enjoyed doing IT on machines and even doing some advanced shit on them. These days... I dread doing it... like I have better things to do with my time. In fact, doing the maintainance is like getting a root canal. To each their own, ok. And I still do it on the two windows machines in this home.

Unless microsoft makes a huge mistake, it will be here for decades to come... and the same goes for the Mac... and so will the OS wars... fought by pretty nasty fanboys ON BOTH SIDES... it is like they found religion or such. At times I wonder why people are so damn loyal to THINGS... then again I am reminded... we are a consumer economy... and the economy depends on people being loyal to things produced by large corporations.

My view on electronic bliss is simple. Find the machine and OS and Applications that do what you need them to do. Now if this is a laptop, make sure the keyboard is confy to work on, and not so small your fingers get lost.

If they happen to be a low end netbook... fine... if this is a 10,000 machine, running I don't know what.. fine... and if you got the money to spend on an insane machine... whatever trips your trigger.

And if it happens to be that your flavor of choice is LINUX distro here... go for it. Been there, done that... and I got a bad one... one of these days will try Ubuntu for shit and fun. That is when the inner geek in me wakes up. For the moment I don't need that.

[Confusious]

95. The only market for MAC

is the high-end boutique market.

and they don't run the games windows does.

It is ALL cool factor, and once that goes away, MAC is back to the same spot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. So by that definition the true toy is the windows machine

that ironically runs games, many of them have their avatars produced on Macs.

There are days I have to laugh.

So I guess the toy is the windows machine.

I know better, but hey, whatever trips your trigger. As I told your buddy above, unless EITHER makes a pretty bad mistake, they BOTH will be around for decades to come. Not only that, the OS wars will be around too... as well as them damn huge chips on shoulders.

Fanboys are fanboys, like they found religion and such... and they are both bad...

And you are no better than the maccie fanboys.

[Confusious]

125. Really? Do you work in that biz?

Do you do NURBS?

"many of them have their avatars produced on Macs."

I highly doubt that. Waste of time and resources. You can get a higher end machine cheaper, which would make 3DSmax faster, for less then a MAC.

Besides that:

"Most of the major studios use Linux -- such as DreamWorks with more than 1,500 Linux desktops and 3,500 Linux servers. The MovieEditor Conference is an all-day event on computer-based filmmaking in downtown Los Angeles on August 3rd. Studio technology chiefs and other experts discuss ongoing work using Linux in feature animation and visual effects. Presented in collaboration with LinuxMovies.org."

"And you are no better than the maccie fanboys."

Nope, sorry. I made a statement of FACT, and added more FACTS. Real work is done by Linux, general use windows, and boutique users get MACs.

Fanboys don't do FACTS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Fanboys are fanboys are fanboys

and yes I worked in the business and yes I have used NURBS.

Sorry...

Studios use Macs, they use Linux, they use Unix, and they use Windows.

Hell some of the studios use pretty specialized chips that have high end packages written exclusively for them that started life as proprietary. You might have heard of I don't know MAYA.

As I said, I laugh...

Now back to doing something bad, using commercial word processing software...

[Confusious]

128. As I said, not a fanboy

Apple has positioned the Mac as a higher-end personal computer, and so it may be misleading to compare it to a low-budget PC.<103> Because the overall market for personal computers has grown rapidly, the Mac’s increasing sales numbers are effectively swallowed by the industry’s numbers as a whole. Apple’s small market share, then, gives the false impression that fewer people are using Macs than did (for example) ten years ago.<104> Notably, a report published in the first quarter of 2008 found that Apple had a 14% market share in the personal computer market in the US, including 66% of all computers over $1,000.<107> Market research indicates that Apple draws its customer base from a higher-income demographic than the mainstream personal computer market.<108>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh

As I said, high end boutique market

Their equipment is the same as any other PC, just sold at a higher price because of cool.

While I like OSX, I despise their need to control everything about their equipment. If I paid money for it, it's mine, not theirs.

Not a fan of windows, piece of shit. They don't innovate, they take.

A fan of Linux, but despise their need to ostracize everything that does not conform to the GPL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. And the market has a place for both

and both do the job they intend to do and as you said go after a different demographic, but when you compare the stats for a netbook, they are nothing compared to the even my three year old macbook. The macbook, lowest end, still has better stats.

You simply don't like their business model.

That said, MOST users are not geeks. Most users go and buy a computer and have no clue what they are buying and you know this.

They want to take it out of the box, connect all them thingies, turn it on and have it WORK. They don't care if the machine is running OS X, tiger, snow liger, leaopard, snow leopard or whatever other kittie adopted. Or if they are running system seven... it WORKS. That's all they care for.

The problem with Linux is that there is this impression out there that it is the OS of the tinkerer... and reality is, I've done it, you can do the same with it as you do with the other two.

But these wars are more a symptom of consumerism than anything else.

They are things, and they do not command the loyalty (as much as they get it) from their customers. Windows cares little for the individual consumer. And neither does Mac.. or for that matter Ubuntu... cog\machine\ is it coke or is it Pepsi?

Move on.

These are tools... and the GIT OF ME LAWN you could have bought a lot more for a lot less... applies to those buying the parts themselves and putting them together.

By the way, that's not the kind of work I want to do anymore. There was a time when I'd not mind it but my time is far more valuable than doing that anymore. And in the end they all process ones and zeroes, and are just tools.

[PatGund]

133. Well, there's a small computer animation studio....

....that's pretty much all Mac based. And they're known for their work.

You might have heard of them. They're called Pixar.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. There are a few others

our friend might have heard of a movie trilogy that used Macs as well...

[PatGund]

71. PowerMac??

Power Macintoshes haven't been sold since 2005. They've been Intel-based since the start of 2006, and the PowerMac was phased out at that time.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. 5 year old Gateway here. Undinked.

In fact, the restore disk is still SEALED into its envelope.

[PatGund]

72. Funny....

About $1000 is what I paid for the Apple laptop I'm writing this on (Unibody MacBook Pro)

As for running a PC, My MacBook Pro has OS X (Unix-based), Windows XP, and Ubuntu Linux on it. This weekend I take XP off and install Windows 7.

I know how to use a PC quite well. Which is why I prefer OS X.

[Touchdown]

45. So buying a Chinese, child labor computer is ok with you as long as it's a fraction of the price.

Right?

[Lucian]

55. Apples are made in the same way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Labor_practices

[Touchdown]

69. Ok, you don't understand my question.

Are you Karl Pilkington by any chance?

You are claiming that Apple's prices are too high in a thread that complains about Chinese labor... so the obvious conclusion I can draw since all major computer makers also use Chinese labor is that Chinese sweatshop/children being raped while they solder your hard drive labor, is only outrageous to you if you can't get it at a bargain. I'm sure you'll play stupid again, but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Occulus]

83. His complaint seems to me to be that Apple is attempting to *profit* from that.

Further, that Apple is attempting to profit *more* from that.

I can still build a PC that is just as powerful as an iMac for about half the price. If you are willing to run linux instead of Windows, I can even pop in an OS at no extra charge- an OS that will run many Windows applications.

I think the biggest complaint of PC users is that Apple users are being willingly soaked for what they're getting, because those "in the know" understand that a perfectly functional and perfectly usable PC can be had for half the price. But, as someone once said, "a sucker is born every minute".

If my PC were an Apple product, it would have cost in the thousands of dollars. I have a quad core CPU, 4GB of RAM, two NV 9x series video cards, and a total of a terabyte of storage space. For this PC, I only paid around $480. This was with an all new motherboard, new CPU, new video cards, new power supply, one old case, one old CD-ROM drive, and all of my hard drives that were currently in use.

My PC kicks ass now, and I spent a fraction of what an Apple buyer would have paid. I think that's the main complaint: for what they get, Apple users get soaked.

[Touchdown]

87. Yeah, I know. BFD. You can build a computer and brag about your tightwaddiness.

And DainBramage's problem is that Apple exists. He has a long history of Apple bashing, and even ignored me because I had the dare to own a Mac and didn't bow before his ego. It was this very subject matter that I caught him in a $300 netbook made by union members in Ohio question he didn't like. Same with you. You ignore my question and try to regale me with your bargain hunting & DYI exploits.

YAWN! You guys love to masturbate to your consumer acumen, always using the same tired adolescent words like "Kicks ass!". Fucking Bullocks!
And in case you haven't figured it out, we don't give a shit about how much your computer costed you. We care about what we want and like, and we don't like you browbeating us as to what you think we should have. Butt the fuck out!

One thing you types will never get. Value isn't about only money and how much margin is in it. Real value is something/someone/some life you love and want to keep. If that happens to be a $1400 iMac or a $800 iPad, so be it.

I make a lot of money. A FUCKING LOT OF MONEY! I drive a BMW, own a condo in the middle of downtown, eat steak twice a week, buy my t-shirts at Macy's, and have leather furniture... and a Macintosh.

Be Gone!

[Tesha]

98. I'm amused that you try to include a terabyte of storage in your $480 price...

...but we then come to find out it's all in the form of used disks. You write
this as though Macs require the sacrifice of a virgin disk to run.

Sorry, but Macs will use the same used disks as your Linux distro uses.

Tesha

[hobbit709]

118. Bought a brand new 1Tb drive for $68 last week.

[Tesha]

121. And the Mac version of that drive? $68! Wot a shock, ehh? (NT)

[Lucian]

86. Your claim was that PCs are made from child labor in some third-world country...

and I showed you a link that says so are Apples. Yet, you claim Apples aren't made that way (which they are).

You shouldn't be calling me stupid. One, it's against the rules, and two, calling someone stupid because they point out your hypocrisy is just plain juvenile.

And Occulus is spot-on on his assessment of my post. I don't understand why Apple users get so defensive when PC users point out on how much money they got screwed over with buying an Apple.

[Touchdown]

90. No I didn't make that claim. That is a fact.

What BD did was single Apple out to imply that they're the only computer maker doing this, or that if they are going to use cheap Chinese labor, to at least lower their prices to match the other cheap computers.

To which I ask, is it ok with you that near slave labor is used, as long as the other PC makers offer their wares for cheap?

Did I call you stupid? If I did, then I apologize. EDIT: I did not call you stupid. I asked if you were Karl Pilkington... a comedian who uses obfuscation and dense stubbornness as his schtick. I seriously doubt he's stupid, despite Ricky always saying he is. However, you did not get my initial question, or your are smart enough to deliberately deflect it into a distracting aside which I made no mention of. I know Apples are made in China. I also know that cheaper computers are made there too. You made an argument as to anybody being an idiot or a sucker (which may also be against the rules) if we pay that much for them... In other words, slave labor is just fine as long as your not a sucker on price/performance. A girl getting raped over a $600 iPad is a human rights violation. A girl getting raped, building a $350 netbook is just smart shopping. It's the hypocrisy that Apple is singled out as a China bad guy, and nobody else is, nor should they be, because they offer cheaper computers.

The defensiveness isn't about you pointing anything out, it's about you bullying your POV into us incessantly and you never shut the fuck up about it. Coupled with a smug sense of superiority, and a condescension that would make the Church Lady blush, you should at least be aware enough to see why we get hostile.

[Touchdown]

102. I now hear crickets. The abuse is gone.

... for a little while.

[MadHound]

100. Really?

I don't know, the first Mac I bought in 1993 lasted ten years before the state of the art of the internet(not anything else, just internet) forced me to buy a new computer with a higher processing speed in order to keep up.

That computer I bought was another Mac, an eMac with a Power PC processor. It is still going strong and has kept up with the speed of the internet quite well.

Unlike many PC's my friends have had, my Macs haven't let me down. They haven't crashed or burned, I've never lost data (my external hard drive that I use to back up files seems rather useless), I've never gotten virus problems. I have simply plugged and played. And played and played and played. . .

I still have the original Power Mac 6100 that I bought in '93. It's still ready to go. My current eMac I'm looking to get at least ten years out of it.

And this isn't just my good luck. Most of the smaller, rural school districts around here are using eMacs everyday. Some still have the original iMacs, you know, the candy colored ones, in use on a daily basis. Why? Because they can't afford to have PC's that are constantly dying or seizing up.

Durability, reliability, it's a great thing. That's why I buy Macs.

[onehandle]

117. That's a complete lie. Apple haters just hate Apple. Period. nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

27. Because it's far more expensive to make them here.

[PatGund]

29. With what Dell, HP, etc. charge for their computers.....

...why aren't they made here either?

Apple's cost the same as a comparatively-equipped name brand PC. And they're usually made in the same factories in China to boot.

They used to be made in the US, but the only way to remain competitive against Dell, HP, and other PC makers that were already producing overseas was to follow suit.

Even if you make your own PC out of parts, those parts are not going to be made in the US either. That HD drive you bought was more than likely built in Malaysia or Thailand.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. I guess you don't computer shop very often

I just got a Lenovo laptop for $499 that is amazing. The Apple equivalent? Add $1000 for that
smug-assed logo and design. Oooh, yay. Design.

[art of compromise]

33. True. They are still way overpriced.

[PatGund]

39. On the contrary....

I'm the IT director for a school, and I shop for computers all the time.

You don't mention what type of Lenovo you got, so I'll look at their U series netbook vs Apple's lowest end MacBook.

MacBook
2.26GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR3 memory
250GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
13.3 inch screen
Height: 1.08 inches (2.74 cm)
Width: 13.00 inches (33.03 cm)
Depth: 9.12 inches (23.17 cm)
Weight: 4.7 pounds (2.13 kg)3
$999

Let's see. Lenovo's only 13.3 inch laptop (the ThinkPad X301) runs about $2098. So let's look at processors and graphic combos then...

Closest match would be a Lenovo G460, with a 2.26GHz and a NVIDIA GeForce 310M That's about $899. A bit more memory and hard drive than the MacBook, but within $100 of each other. 5 hours of battery life though, whereas the MacBook has 7 hours, so the battery difference may account for the difference.

[Tesha]

41. Lenovo? That's an Asian brand, isn't it? (NT)

[Touchdown]

43. Chinese labor doesn't matter to them, as long as it isn't "overpriced"

Windows/Linux users are just fine with 12 year old girls being raped making their computer equipment, as long as they get a deal on it!

[Dreamer Tatum]

79. So what, do Asian companies that make Apple products give them lunch before raping them?

Show me an American-made Apple product. Please.

[Touchdown]

92. I'm not defending Apple, China or US trade policy. I am addressing the hypocrisy.

Of which you seem to be desperately ignoring.

[PatGund]

73. They're the ones that bought the ThinkPad line from IBM

[Tesha]

131. (I knew that. It was a rhetorical question.) (NT)

[Teka]

36. You could say the same for most tennis shoes

The latest Nike $150 pair, made in Indonesia.

For that price, they should be made in Oregon, by $25/hour full bennie union workers.

[TransitJohn]

38. Profit margins. n/t

HFPS stated the same upthread.

[Atman]

49. For decades I heard that Apple sucked and would go out of business within a month...

Of course, that was never really the case. At their low point (when they accepted Microsoft's settlement) Apple still had massive cash reserves on hand (remind me to tell you the story of the guy at MacWorld Boston who was selling genuine Apple stock certificates for $1 each -- you know, for souvenirs, placemats, whatever -- and I still didn't buy any...but I hung on to the MacWorld t-shirt because I thought it might be worth money some day).

I've been using Mac's since the Mac II, which I upgraded to 2 megabytes of RAM so it could run in color. As long as I've used Macs there has been some assclown shitting on Apple because they didn't fit into the corporate culture; their computers were toys; too simple to operate (*gasp*! We can't have that!); didn't run the right software (yawn -- how 1990's). Of course, still the most popular hater mantra that's been debunked a thousand times: Mac's are too expensive and any serious gamer could make a kick-ass system out of an old toaster and the motherboard from a Commodore Amiga. No need to re-debate it here, anyone who's read this far has heard/seen it many times. Yet, throughout all these years and all the Macs I've owned, Apple has always sucked ass to someone just as much as Microsoft has to someone else.

The only thing that has changed over the years are the supposed reasons given by the perpetual Mac haters. Where Apple used to be disdained for its very irrelevance, now the company is called Big Brother and the haters are convinced Steve Jobs is trying to take over the universe while Bill Gates is preoccupied giving away his billions to third world causes. Pretty god damned funny if you ask me.

[Major Hogwash]

50. The first time I heard that was when IBM got into the PC game.

Remember those IBM PC ads with Charlie Chaplin?

I didn't like Chaplin, either.

[gmoney]

58. "Here here, well spoken BRUCE!"

[Atman]

62. I don't get it .

:shrug:

[gmoney]

65. Vague Monty Python Reference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA

But still, I thought that was very well said. Even if you're name is not Bruce.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I'll tell you why... neo liberal policies

that encourage companies to do this... regardless of who they are.

When we start putting tariffs at the border... to equalize that cost, they will come back... not a second before that.

Oh and our mercantilistic economy requires that you got them stock dividends fer them darn investors... see tax policy and a few other aspects to this.

[Elwood P Dowd]

52. Bush Crime Family neoliberals assisted in the move offshore.

The Labor & Commerce Departments worked overtime shipping millions of jobs out of the country. Mitch McConnell's dingbat wife should have been call The Secretary Of Chinese Labor!

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I am sorry but this policy started under Reagan

and accelerated under Clinton. This is bipartisan.

<------- up to my neck currently in classical economics and the last thirty years of policy.

What I can tell you is that the US is NOT a Capitalist economy... and it has not been for a good while.

It is a mixture of fascism and mercantilism

Research also is leading me to also write an article to propose to a few mags... precisely on why we should start using the right language and NOT give a pass to any of our politicos. Hell, Perot was right about NAFTA. And yes I know who negotiated it, but Clinton gets no pass from me either.

[Elwood P Dowd]

56. I know that.

I probably have 500 posts on this site regarding this shit. I was fighting against NAFTA in 1993 and GATT/WTO in 1994. The Bush crowd just took it to another level.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Not another level, it was the natural escalation

To paraphrase Smith... when you do not regulate Capitalists, self interest for lower costs and higher profit will lead to them doing all they can to get this. Why they need regulation, and since labor adds value to products, we need living wages.

[Elwood P Dowd]

60. I think it was another level.

Reagan/Bush Sr started it in the 1980s. Clinton signed off on the implementing legislation in 93-94. But Bush loaded up Commerce, Labor, and Treasury with a ton of neoliberals that took it to another level. From tax policies to seminars assisting corps with outsourcing, Bush's policies shipped almost 6 million jobs out of the country when you factor in spin-off and support jobs lost.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. It woudl have happened regardless

we have embraced neoliberalism at a high policy level for over thirty years at least... no matter what party. In fact, no matter what advanced economy... we are not the only ones.

I have no idea what it will take to change this. At times I fear... it will take an armed revolution as well as a deep change in how we think of the economy. For starters this is not Capitalism... it has not been Capitalism for over thirty years. Capitalism is dead, and it's been replaced by consumerism... which does not care for anything but maximizing profits, minimizing costs, and socializing losses.

It has a few elements of Mercantilism, and a few elements of fascism... but Capitalism... it is dead, Jim, it is dead.

Oh and using terms like Disaster Capitalism also misses the fact that this is so far from Classic Economics as you can get.

[JCMach1]

85. Because anything less than 500% profit is well, un-Apple...

[rucky]

97. How do you expect them to pay for all those ads?

[WeDidIt]

105. Because Apple is evil.

Plain and simple, Apple is the Walmart of the electronics industry.

[Elwood P Dowd]

107. No, that would be a republican company called Dell.

Apple is run by Democrats and builds a nice product with excellent service. Consumer Reports rates them Number One is customer service on a regular basis. Their resale value is among the best in the electronics industry.

Evil is Dick Cheney. Evil is Rush Limbaugh. Evil is the national US Chamber Of Commerce, which Apple resigned from because of their stance on global warming.

[WeDidIt]

123. Apple is EVIL

You'll never convince me otherwise.

[Touchdown]

127. I need to call the zoo.

Seems the parrot escaped.

[onehandle]

111. Apple haters have no idea what they are talking about. No computer components are made here.

Apple has the highest customer service satisfaction ratings.

Apple haters hate Apple. Period.

[DainBramaged]

122. Apple is the Toyota of computers, one day they will screw up or

finally be caught.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

130. That makes no sense at all.

If anything, Apple is the Porsche of computers, making very expensive products for a very tiny slice of the market.

[DainBramaged]

134. To you nothing makes sense.......

[Call Me Wesley]

116. How many of you use a Dell? I've seen quite a mention here.

In 2005, Susan and Michael Dell were among 53 entities that each contributed $250,000 (the maximum legal donation) to the second inauguration of President George W. Bush.

[onehandle]

119. Michael Dell is an idiot. When Jobs returned in the late 90s, he said that the company...

...should be liquidated and the money returned to the stockholders.

If you would have invested $5000 in Apple the day he said that, it would be worth $1.5 million today.

Moron Republican Michael Dell.

[FreeJoe]

120. Why should they be?

It's much cheaper to buy the parts from other countries. Those countries are poorer than the US and need the work more. That's why they are willing to do it more cheaply. People in those countries improve their standard of living by having these jobs available. People in the US improve their standard of living by getting cheaper computers. Seems like a good deal to me.

The key is that we need to keep working to make sure that people here and around the world are not exploited. I don't believe that is the case with most overseas labor.

The incredible improvements in standards of living in India, China, and other poor nations over the last 20 years has been absolutely remarkable. These times will be remembered in history as one of the periods of greatest improvement in the lives of people around the world. They haven't been great in the US, but we're only 5% of the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Mr Friedman is that you?

That is the propaganda... lock stock and barrel.

You should get out more, as in do actual research, on how ALL computer components are made, and chiefly by who?

I am proof positive the slave labor in China has not seen in improvement in their living standards... but this is not apple, it is the whole industry.

By the way Friedman (and neoliberals) have been pushing this crap... your salaries and mine have been stagnant... while they use SLAVE labor... care to do some dot connecting?

[DainBramaged]

135. So we should depreciate our standard of living to make the people in other countries happy?

Sounds like you work for Apple......minimum cost, maximum profit...... :thumbsdown:


Would live like they do? JUST to make them your equal?

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. Nah he does not work for apple

I'm almost betting though that either he's read Friedman's the World's Flat, or any of the other neo liberal tracts. It is not apple that follows this model... it is the US Manufacturing base...

So if you got an issue with apple, you got an issue with MANY OTHER COMPANIES. Today I got Hi Tech Boots, hiking boots. They're made in China. They follow the exact model. Though they were "cheap," their real cost is not in the fifty bucks I paid for them. It is in the environmental degradation involved, the working conditions of the Chinese workforce, the lack of taxes paid in the US to build OUR infrastructure, and the energy cost to transport them across the ocean. In fact, the real cost is closer to a thousand bucks.

We call that externalizing costs... and until we either start putting tariffs at the border making this business model obsolete, or we start paying the real cost, this ain't gonna stop. It don't matter if this is a Macbook, a Samsung Computer, or those Hi Tech Hiking boots.

So I'd recommend starting to see the whole picture, and not just a tiny little slice of it.

[DainBramaged]

139. One last question as I await the thunderstorm to subside

If Apple is so good, why don't they make/aren't they used to make supercomputers? The Cray-1, a supercomputer designed by Seymour Cray and installed at Los Alamos National Laboratory in 1976.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
http://www.top500.org/

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Because that's never been a market they are involved in

that said, YOU are aware a Mac runs a subset of Unix. What do you think Supercomputers run many a times? You guessed it... UNIX

[DainBramaged]

141. The top 10 run Linux..................

:hi:

Competitor AMD/ATI is also throwing more and more DirectX 11 products on the market while Intel – still unable to offer any DirectX 11 products – can only stand and watch. Apple, according to talks at CeBIT, also plans to get on the DirectX 11 train, with its iMacs, or, rather, on the ATI Radeon 5750 train – the Windows DirectX 11 features don’t much matter with a Mac OS. Anyway, there is OpenCL, in the development of which Apple played a significant part. Unlike last year, Apple kept a low key during the run-up to CeBIT and didn’t surprise with news from far-away California about new Mac-Pro workstations equipped with unreleased Intel Xeon processors. Like Dell, HP and others, Apple is going to behave well and present the upgrade to the 6-core Westmere-EP in due time this year. This upgrade will be rather easy as no new systems are required: the new Westmere-EP processor is socket compatible to its predecessor, the 4-core Nehalem-EP. The special feature of its integrated memory (NUMA) will most likely continue to be ignored by Apple’s operating system Snow Leopard, which means that about 20 percent or more of the memory performance is wasted. SPEC CPU2006 benchmark results are accordingly poor until now.


http://www.top500.org/blog/2010/03/15/about_recovering_and_upgrading

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. Which is a branch of UNIX

there.

:-)

Quite simply you do not like the business model... and personally I don't like how MODERN economy works... monopolies, outsourcing of costs, and internalizing profits, slave labor and all that. but I am not blind as to think this is a single corporation. It is a systemic problem

As I posted above, the real cost of the High Tech Boots I got today... is not fifty buckaroos, but closer to 1000.

The real cost of the netbook is not 312, but closer to 2,000... the macbook, closer to 5,000

Those are real costs... but I am including things nobody else does, like costs of energy to move them across oceans, lack of care for their work forces, externalizing all kinds of costs...

Nor am I willing to play the game of coke vs pepsi anymore, which you are doing, or chevy vs Ford, or mac vs PC... it is a stupid game that only helps THEM. No matter who happens to be the one you are going after or applauding because they are the good guys.

These are tools, pure and simple, and the true cost of a Mac for your average consumer, when you compare component by component is about 60 bucks more... no, my netbook does not play as fast as the three year old macbook... nor can they be compared, when you go at the component level. THough it does exactly what I need it to do, glorified word processor, PERIOD.

Now for the 10% that assembles their own machines... yeah it is cheaper. even more if you load Ubuntu on the box, or whatever other flavor of Linux you use. Why OS wars are just plain stupid... to be quite honest, and BOTH mac fans and PC fans do it... get a mirror, what you complaint about the other side, is exactly what you are doing.

[DainBramaged]

143. For basic computing it ISN'T cheaper to build your own

I can't build a netbook. I can't build a desktop with Windows 7 for the $299 price of an Emachine with AMD processor, 2GB of ram and 320 GB hard drive in an elegant case with DVD burner. Or the Compaq twin with Intel Dual-core for $309.


My point of the original question remains, except for an operating system too inefficient to take advantage or the processor power in Intel's new generation of I series CPU, Apple should be building it's computers here instead of maximizing their profit by having Foxcon build them over there. And since they don't return dividends to investors no matter how much profit they make, why support them at all?

Back to dreamland,

Later my friend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. And the components of my netbook are still INFERIOR to those of the Macbook

The macbook is a mid range laptop. Something about comparing apples to apples... in which case it is about 60 bucks

If Mac made a comparable product to a Netbook and sold it for 700 bucks, then you'd have a point.

Wait they did... and it did not take off... you might know it as the macbook air.

They were not quite as bare bones as the netbook... but there is a reason why it failed.

[DainBramaged]

145. You're not comparing apples to apples

A $1000 Mac book is far from a mid-range laptop these days. An $849 Asus destroys it in performance http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220634 . We're talking basic computing, and Apple has never and will never take it's nose out of the stratosphere and sell a laptop with a boatload of features in the sub-$400 range like Compaq, Lenovo, Dell or Toshiba. And we're talking 13.3" screens not netbook 10". And this is the one sitting under my desk in a box being given as a birthday present next month

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115674

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. What part of that is not the market they are pursuing

are you having a cow comprehending?

IT IS NOT A MARKET THEY ARE PURSUING. PERIOD. And Jobs has said it many a times. SO you are being critical since they DO NOT WANT TO PUT their logo on a sub par machine? (Which is a wonderful word processor mind you). This is why they are pursuing a slightly different customer base. And you seem to hate them for a decision they took at a high corporate level. They simply do NOT want the netbook market. PERIOD.

And no, when you compare a new macbook to a new whatever it is about sixty bucks, component by component. I've done it in the past by the way.

You simply do not like Mac... and that is your prerogative, it is Pepsi man... same shit, different industry.

And you will not face the systemic problem in this. And it is not mac, or asus, or the left handed widget. It is consumerism. And you are playing the game with it. It is called creating an identity through the THINGS you consume.

Look I got a macbook I use at home for work at home... does not make me cool. IT IS A TOOL.

I got a netbook, ONLY because I travel to a third world country every so often where the same Mac screams MONEY, and TOURIST... and I personally do not like being a mark. Yes, they do have a slight problem with ahem kidnappings. SO that is part of being street wise. Get something that is cheap to replace, and does not scream MONEY, even if almost five years old and running still like a kitten.

We also have a gaming rig that puts both of them to shame... That's hubby's puter, and he enjoys it.

And you know what? They are ALL TOOLS. PERIOD.

They run the same software, so they can talk to each other. But they are simply TOOLS, period.

They are not cool, they are tools.

Oh and why did I get a Macbook? Well when I got it, there is the worst of VISTA, and that made my tool almost impossible to use... and that was a failure of a tool. It had nothing to do with how cool you are, or being the cool one in the block.

Now instead of looking at Mac and apparently having a cow since they don't want to play in a market you apparently wish they did... why don't you start looking deeper into what is going on? You know like why is it that people develop identities depending on WHAT they wear, what they drive, what phone they use and what they use to word process on. As they say, pull the curtain away, what you may see is not precisely nice, but it is a first step in moving away from a system that has in some ways not only enslaved the people producing our toys, but us as well. It is just a different way of enslaving, that is all.

[DainBramaged]

148. Black meet white, and their kids shades of grey........

(sigh) I'm too too busy today to argue your point. My point still stands, with identcal components to much lower priced PC laptops, Apple should be building them here and giving Americans jobs and not foreigners. And that as been the point from the first sentence. Not about tools or competing in niches, simply giving America a break, something he doesn't get just like all the other corporations.


Steve Jobs doesn't give a shit. Period.


:hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. This is not Jobs, and that is what you are missing

it is a corporate culture that does not give a shit.

You just chose to pay attention to a mightily small (albeit visible) slice of it.

I can make the same fucking argument for the following:

ASUS
HP
DELL
High Tech
Nike
Sears

I could go on. The list is extremely long.

It is time to stop focusing on a small slice and start looking at the WHOLE FUCKING PICTURE.

And yes this is purely pepsi vs coke.