WP: It was a "sad, desperate" decision to fire all of R. I. school's teachers.

[madfloridian]

I most certainly agree with that. This is very good article from the Education page of the Washington Post.

Decision to fire all of R.I. school's teachers sad, desperate

At the committee meeting Tuesday night, 93 names were called for firing -- 74 classroom teachers, plus reading specialists, guidance counselors, physical education teachers, the school psychologist, the principal and three assistant principals, according to the Providence Journal. Not one was good enough to stay.

Some of the teachers at the city's only high school cried, but the committee held firm.

It's no wonder that Education Secretary Arne Duncan applauded the move, saying the committee members were "showing courage and doing the right thing for kids."

Courage, indeed. Now, all they have to do is find 93 excellent professionals to take their places. Recruiting the best educators should be easy, especially when you can offer them life in a very poor town and a job with no security.

A very poor town, no job security, and a school board that has not a clue what they just did.

The article continues:

And, of course, the powers that be will have to ignore all the other influences on high school students because their poor performance was all about the adults at the high school. Their elementary and middle school education -- or lack thereof? Not a problem. Their sometimes difficult home lives? Naw. That doesn't affect how a kid does at school.

No Child Left Behind, a federal law that has driven schools to narrow curriculum and use rudimentary standardized tests to measure progress? Not an issue.

Firing all the educators may sound bold to some, but it sounds sad and desperate to me.

I would have chosen cold and uncaring as words to describe this decision as well. It displayed a lack of understanding of how children learn, how learning is a part of a child's whole environment. It displayed a callous attitude toward teachers, as if they were the only ones to blame.

This harsh, intrusive rush to close schools, to fire teachers, to replace staff, to convert them to something else, usually charters run by private companies.....this rush to get rid of public education ignores the fact that learning is a partnership.

That partnership involves teachers, parents, students, AND the community.

The fact that our Democratic president has chosen a Secretary of Education who shows this ignorance about learning and how it takes place has made my heart ache.

[Skittles]

1. no, it was a sickening decision

[roguevalley]

41. changing teachers won't change the conditions. end poverty and you

have a chance to prevent this stuff from happening. End poverty? Nah. :sarcasm: its not as sexy as firing and defaming a school full of teachers, probably many of whom were trying mightily to do a job against great odds.

[Starry Messenger]

2. It was a cowboy stunt.

A heartless, corporate meaningless flourish to look "tough". Makes me sick.

[madfloridian]

3. Great pic: "Arne Duncan Education Pirate"

Love it.

[Starry Messenger]

5. Thank you!

I'm getting a lot of mileage out of it. :D

[Grand Taurean]

4. Parental responsibility is something that Obama does not want

to discuss. Interesting.
This was a very off the cuff Dubya style cowboy PR stunt.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. He actually has discussed it quite often

But the government can't make parents participate in their kids' education. What do you want him to do?

[readmoreoften]

28. Does the man do anything but talk? I'm sure he loves the concept of parental responsibility.

It requires nothing of him. Demanding responsibility of banks and corporate thugs is a different story.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. Which is completely off the subject

Seriously, what can the government do to force parents to get involved in their kids' education? If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears.

[Mithreal]

64. "Off the subject?" You're kidding, right?

30+ years of conservative economic policies continued by this President have eroded and outright destroyed communities and families.

I am starting to become less than amused by people who talk about education quality and teacher accountability without taking into account students environments and responsibilities of our representatives to protect American labor and families.

If you think it is off subject, then I am not explaining myself well at all. Won't be the first time. Please explain how that is off subject, maybe you just didn't flesh out your idea sufficiently for me to understand.

[Hippo_Tron]

75. I will pose the question to you

What can the President do to make parents become involved in their kids' education?

[Mithreal]

79. I don't want to blow your mind but it took less than 5 seconds for me

to come up with a solid response to that.

Tell you what though, how about you think for a teensy bit and try and answer that yourself. Provide me even a little effort and I will hit ya back with my whacky ideas. If I don't get a response from you in a few hours I will post what I think myself. You obviously think you found some sort of dead end, see if you can turn your pov around.

[Hippo_Tron]

81. Seriously, I'm all ears

The best idea I've thought of is boarding schools.

[Mithreal]

83. Alright, the question you posed.

"What can the President do to make parents become involved in their kids' education?"

First off, nothing we can propose can be 100% effective. There will always be situations that make doing what you propose either difficult or impossible. The problems families experience are not unique to them though the may feel they are alone. Looking at this as an unsolvable problem though is unrealistic, there are things that can be done to minimize the difficult circumstances. It is less about forcing than encouraging and helping create circumstances that enable what you would like to see. Everything is connected though it may not seem like it at first.

When you asked the question, this came to mind immediately.
Bush - Uniquely American, please give a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIjo-dWE1Jg

Bush praises a woman for working three jobs, calling it uniquely American.

1. So, the first group of people I would like to comment on are people who CANNOT be involved with their children because they must work multiple jobs to provide a minimal standard of living. See, I believe most parents want to be involved with their children but are exhausted. They are working so hard that they really lean on teachers to educate their children, out of necessity. So, the first thing that government can do is ensure that employers pay a LIVING WAGE. The necessity for working multiple jobs is lessened when workers are paid a fair wage. If workers today received comparable minimum wage to the 1960's worker, adjusting for inflation and real costs, I have heard a minimum wage would be anywhere from $13/hr to $16/hr.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5442257

Working one job paying minimum wage has never been enough to lift a family out of poverty which is one of the greater predictors for achievement and success.



I have a lot more to say on this but let me know what you think of this so far. Everything I have to say about this problem is about putting families in a basic position to do what you suggested. I am not saying that poor families cannot be involved with their children's education. What I am saying is that we can whittle down the factors that make doing what you suggest nearly impossible or rather unlikely.

[Hippo_Tron]

84. Yes I agree a living wage and fighting poverty are a big part of the education puzzle

A parent who works three jobs can't participate in their kids' education and a kid who lives in substandard housing is going to face impediments to academic success that rich kids will not. Obviously we need to do more to deal with poverty and improvements in education will come gradually with that.

That being said, the voters demand instant gratification. Even if the President could increase the minimum wage and pass a second great society (not a chance in hell with this congress), poverty would still take a generation to fix. And while I agree that the vast majority of people who do not participate in their kids' education would if they had the time, there are still deadbeat parents and that's something that the government really can't do anything about.

The bottom line is that our education system is in shambles and the voters want to see that he's doing something by 2012. Saying "I raised the minimum wage so parents could spend more time helping their kids with homework" isn't going to sell as an education plan.

I'm not trying to argue that Arne Duncan's education policy is good. But given the set of circumstances the administration faces, it's almost inevitable. Poverty can't be drastically reduced in four years and teachers' salaries won't be raised to the levels they need to be anytime soon (which are big parts of the solution). When Obama says "doing nothing isn't an option" he's absolutely right. Politically, doing nothing is not an option. And since the real options to deal with the problem are also not options, inevitably they are going to create some kind of charade to make it look like they are fixing the problem.

The crux of the matter is that the woman working three jobs was attending a pre-screened Bush "town hall" which means that she was a loyal Republican. That's how utterly ridiculous the American electorate is. The Obama education policy is the inevitable result of a combination of forces that are far greater than Arne Duncan.

[Mithreal]

85. I disagree on several points.

"The bottom line is that our education system is in shambles and the voters want to see that he's doing something by 2012. Saying "I raised the minimum wage so parents could spend more time helping their kids with homework" isn't going to sell as an education plan."

I do not agree our education system is in shambles though I understand some of the sentiment. You seem to understand the importance of perception so I am a little confused by your statement. You know the glass half full half empty conversation though I suppose you could provide some explanation for your shambles argument?

To your second statement I quoted, why not? I would agree as an entirety it wouldn't, but our President neglects the role his economic policies play on families well-being. President Obama has shown he will reach for low-hanging fruit which most of us already know is rotten.

Certain things the voters should expect to be immediately addressed, others not.

I acknowledge there will be dead beat parents but many of them are in difficult circumstances that they could not overcome or bear. I am not trying to excuse them, but our role should be to minimize the circumstances that erode families and communities.

It's a very rightwing thing to be focus a discussion on the "bad" people rather than the "bad" situations. Might want to think about that or not if I misunderstand where you are coming from.

[Mithreal]

80. I don't want to blow your mind but it took less than 5 seconds for me

to come up with a solid response to that.

Tell you what though, how about you think about your question for a teensy bit and try and answer that yourself. Provide me even a little effort and I will hit ya back with my whacky ideas. If I don't get a response from you in a few hours I will post what I think anyway. You obviously think you found some sort of dead end, see if you can turn your pov around.

[Mithreal]

60. +1

[pattmarty]

56. To keep his fucking privatizing goddamn hands off of PUBLIC education.

[meeshrox]

70. The President discusses

parental responsibility quite a bit...it's not only parental responsibility, here. I'm sure that at least some of the parents actually care that they cannot feed their kids, afford to move to a better neighborhood, have two or three jobs and are never home, or cannot find a job with a living wage. This is a stunt to punish the poor for having the unfortunate "luck" of being poor. It's unbelieveable...the school was improving their performance! :mad:

Edited for grammar...

[bemildred]

6. What a pantload of shallow emotional drivel.

It was stupid and incompetent was what it was, playing games with other people's lives.

[madfloridian]

7. Great comment: "grand gestures don't work to improve schools"

Repeat after me:

grand gestures don't work to improve schools

Great comment.

Context:

"Duncan tried a lot of things during his more than seven years as Chicago schools chief: shutting down schools, hiring experts in turning around schools and firing a lot of people. The results? To put it nicely, there was no Chicago miracle. Some schools improved, others didn't.

That's because grand gestures don't work to improve schools. It would be nice if they did, but time and time again, we've learned they don't. Making schools work is a very difficult job. There is no one thing to blame; there is no single remedy that works for every school or district.

[stray cat]

8. I have never seen a less than steller teacher or ever had a less than steller co-worker

and all my employees and students walk on water - even those who can't read or write or use reason.

[jberryhill]

12. Witch won tot you how to spell "stellar"? /nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. LOL!

[shockra]

38. That reminded me. I drive by a school named Steller...

every time I go to the grocery store, so I have a heck of a time spelling stellar whenever that word comes up. I have to think twice because I've seen it so often the other way!

My sister went there at the same time as Jewel and Trajan Langdon, the basketball player. She says Tera Patrick the porn star was there as well, though I can't find any record of that in the alumni, LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steller_Secondary_School

I hadn't realized Senator Mark Begich attended Steller, but he's listed.

[Confusious]

39. HAw!

I attended steller. I have a hell of a time spelling it (stellar? steller?) after 20 years!

I didn't go with jewel or the basketball guy though. They were after my time.

[NM_hemilover]

47. SSSSSTELLLA r !!!!!!!!!!!!! SSSSSSTELLLA r !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LeftyMom]

40. Your coworkers are sea lions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steller_Sea_Lion

[PVnRT]

61. You need to replace the straw in that strawman

It's starting to get old.

[Mithreal]

66. You do realize there is wide variation of intelligences within the population, no?

Your comment reeks of wingnut, no offense.

[xchrom]

9. Recommend

[laughingliberal]

10. Rec. nt

[Catshrink]

11. When Wall Street tanked, they got a bailout.

The executive kept their jobs and got big bonuses that we, as taxpayers, paid for even though their reckless behavior caused the financial crisis. Teachers working in difficult conditions did their best and got no bonuses and lost their jobs. We now know where Obama's priorities lie: not with the working people of America but with his corporate masters.

[raccoon]

68. A-fucking-men! nt

[Kalun D]

13. No Childs Behind Left

was a sham fraud and a farce brought to us by the dimwitted bush boy and his cronies in the school testing industry

the fact that Obama has continued to run with it and not stopped or reversed it shows that Obama is a sham fraud and a farce.

Just another step in the dumbing down of the American populace

[msongs]

14. Obama's education "vision thing" nt

[tnlefty]

16. I don't intend to hijack your thread, but wanted to mention that

the principal of the high school that 2 of my boys attend had some weighty comments to make 2-3 yrs. ago upon the 100th anniversary of the school during an interview on local radio that I listened to that day just to hear her, otherwise I never listen to local radio.

Anyhoo she mentioned that when she was younger and for years thereafter students who had good grades, but wanted clothing items, etc., or gas money or spending money might get a part time job during the school year and work during the summer for items that were out of the family budget. Today more kids are having to work to help the parents with lower paying jobs just to keep the family from going under, which leaves less time to study and often tired students when they are in the classroom.

Teachers didn't create that scenario, suck trade policies helped create that scenario here and everyone is suffering for it.

It really irks me that someone with a degree in sociology with no advanced degrees in education is making these decisions. I have a friend who has a doctorate in sociology and advanced degrees in education, hence a university professor. County superintendents and state secs. of education require advanced degrees, so why not Arne?:mad:

[Catshrink]

17. Why not Arne?

He's Obama's basketball buddy that's all the degree he needs.

[tnlefty]

18. Yep, but over the past few weeks that has REALLY been

bugging the hell out of me. Someone unqualified to be making these decisions has the power to make them, and it's waaay beyond pissing me off. :hi:

[Catshrink]

21. Me too.

Obama and Duncan have shown their true colors the past week. One term.

[surrealAmerican]

55. Regarding kids with jobs:

Not only do their grades and attendance suffer, but they are also far more likely to drop out for economic reasons.

[branders seine]

19. this episode is utterly sickening

any politician who supports it is an ignorant, pandering asshole.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. They won't pay enough for the quality they need.

Possibly they could hire people with Master's degrees and Ph.D.s in their fields, give them some education courses in how to teach the subject that they know. But they wouldn't pay anywhere near what a person with an advanced degree would expect to be paid.

(Frantically waving Juris Doctor here...there are several subjects I could teach, but they would never let me.)

[Hippo_Tron]

37. There's quite a few PhDs in retail these days

But IMO PhDs certainly don't make the best teachers. I think an undergraduate degree in the subject area generally prepares one to teach a high school level class in that subject area. It's really about whether or not you can teach.

[PVnRT]

62. No, it doesn't

Simply having a degree does not prepare you for teaching kids. That myth really needs to die.

[ncteechur]

22. It was the right decision!

[Catshrink]

23. And you know this because?

Really, you betray your ignorance.

[Doremus]

36. Because he/she/it's a "teechur," silly. nt

[madfloridian]

42. heh heh

a real teechur

[Telly Savalas]

25. Oh bullshit. Even if a scorched earth policy was the appropriate response

it's pretty hard to believe that every single employee of that school was so bad that a superior replacement for each of the 93 positions can be found and hired between now and August.

Accountability is a great thing, but real accountability is based upon rational decision-making not emotionally-driven symbolic gestures. Duncan is behaving in a very unprofessional manner to support this.

[G_j]

26. is that it?

you get an F

[freddie mertz]

50. Because Obama liked it, it has to be right.

Like Mussolini before him.

He is "Always Right."

[pattmarty]

57. Did you forget the sarcasm "thingie", or are you just an ass hole?

[Unvanguard]

27. Do they mean a useless, ineffectual decision that has nothing to do with the real problem?

Schools in poor areas, all across the country, do not fail because they all just randomly happen to have bad teachers. What a silly fantasy.

Edit: Sorry, no sarcasm, that basically IS what the article meant. So good on the author. :)

[madfloridian]

29. Only attaching blame to the teachers.....shows their real agenda.

Which has little to do with real learning, and more to do with profit and doing away with public education.

[waiting for hope]

30. K&R

[EFerrari]

32. I'm only now putting this together. So Obama attends an event given by the wife of a career

war criminal and he boosts America's Promise by erroneously characterizing that school in Cedar Falls and beating up on the teachers that had just been praised in a state audit?

Is that right so far?

He quotes Duncan as saying that our kids only get one chance, so we have to get their education right.

By the same logic, what are the consequences to Obama for being so wrong on this situation?

He owes those teachers an apology. If he felt compelled to apologize to a well known community bigot like Jim Crowley who lied on his police report in the Gates' arrest, I fully expect the president to be even MORE fulsome in his apology to these educators.

[madfloridian]

33. I agree with all you said. He is ill-informed at best....at worst...

he knows he is wrong and said it anyway.

[saracat]

34. Bastards. That is all I can say . I am sickened by this.

[saracat]

35. K+R

[Kalun D]

43. Kick and Rec

Kick and Rec

[jmowreader]

44. After looking at the situation there I think I would have fired them too

From what I've heard, there are two basic ways they can fix a problem school in the State of Rhode Island. One is to institute what amounts to a Performance Improvement Plan--it calls for quite a lot of things. The other is to fire the whole staff, rehire the best-performing half of the staff and replace the others with new teachers. The school board wanted to go with the first option, but when the teachers essentially said "fuck you, we want $90 per hour for any extra work" they went to the second option.

We're going to debate this until the end of days, but the bottom line is Johnny couldn't read and according to any rational standard that's not acceptable.

[madfloridian]

46. I am ready to fire the politicians, all of them....for not getting stuff done.

Your answer shows that you are not aware of the special problems of that area, your answer shows that you do not care about the students....only about passing a test made by a private company that is unregulated and scored by private unregulated companies.

Updating my list, not worth my time.


Right-wing legal power exploiting loopholes for a fundamentalist takeover of public education.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5158

Palmetto Christian School in Florida joins 7 former Catholic schools, turns charter for public money
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5151

AP says "ethic rules have been waived" to allow DOE folks to deal more easily with Gates Foundation
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5105

DOE money to flow to schools which defy their unions. To districts which form charter schools.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5099

Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5085

NY public school students get limited use of school library so 3 charter schools can use it.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5077

Private Christian school gets charter school taxpayer money. Expels children of woman who questions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5073

Jeb Bush is delighted that Obama is taking on teachers' unions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5046

Up to 250 public schools to be turned over to outside bidders? Called a hostile takeover.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5015

Are the words "school choice" public code words for the movement to privatize public education?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5000

"Stand and Deliver" school, Garfield High, sadly is one of 12 schools available to outside bidders
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4973

The demeaning of public education began under Reagan. It has worked well.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4966

Charter school director blames too-hard tests and pupils tired of test-taking for poor test scores.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4932

The hodge-podge nature of schools getting public money makes it hard to have funding accountability.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4879

Herbert Kohl on scripted curriculum, surveillance of teachers, and TIME on Arne's 5 billion
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4833

Charter school principals fired after questioning taxpayer money spent on school's real estate arm.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4784

"Democracy Privatized!"...education blog talks about turning over public functions to “the market”.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5610

There is intimidation of those who question school closings in NYC...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5598

Remember they are even turning A schools into charters.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5615

Imagine Charter Schools sells 5 schools for 44 million...will have them leased back to them.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5586

Blogger gets it: Make big bucks by closing public schools, firing teachers, opening charters.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5558

Teacher union head hires fed pay czar to develop plan to get rid of teachers.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5539

[Bettie]

48. But if you look at it, the students' reading scores were improving

There was significant improvement happening in that school. They hadn't gotten it up to state standards, but the improvements were happening.

And in negotiation, you ask for more than you think you can get, then someone offers something else, and so on...until you get to a solution that works for both parties.

So, the bottom line is that Johnny can't read, but they are working on that. You can't change things overnight, but making progress should be a good thing, not something to get fired over.

[EFerrari]

58. Not really. The bottom line is this school was improving

as per the last state audit -- despite having something like five principals in six years and having the program changed constantly on these teachers and students.

And that's what unions are for -- to help you when your employer starts asking for unpaid overtime.

[Tailormyst]

59. If you come to that conclusion then you have been given the wrong facts

[PVnRT]

63. People wanted to be "paid" for working? The OUTRAGE!

I mean, teachers should really work for free, since they're only motivated by the love for their profession. And forget things like "contracts"....pfft. Contracts should only be honored when it is convenient.

[Mithreal]

67. That counts as debate?

You're displaying your lack of understanding the complexity of the situation and saying the teachers said "fuck you" is also very anti-teacher and betrays your bias, but for what you said, you said it well, guess that counts for something.

[liberalhistorian]

45. I'm wondering when they're gonna start

firing bad, apathetic, abusive, neglectful, enabling, and/or junkie parents. Naw, never gonna happen. It's ALL the teachers' fault, anyway, ALL of it. They have the kids all the time, 24/7, you know.

[jonathon]

49. Omg. Arne Duncan applauded this & Obama didn't immediately FIRE him

Jesus christ.

[EFerrari]

65. We should be lighting up the White House switchboard.

This is simply unacceptable.

[Demeter]

51. Not Able to Hit Those Truly Responsible, They Lashed Out at Those Within Reach

Not very smart and terribly destructive.

[Mithreal]

71. +1 and will encourage more of the same.

[tblue37]

74. Like blaming the waitress when the managers don't have enough staff

on shift to run the kitchen and the floor, so that your order gets taken late and the meal is not cooked quickly. It's not the wait staff's fault that they cannot handle the restaurant with half the necessary staff on the floor and in the kitchen, but the customers can't reach the the person responsible, so they yell at the already harried and overwhelmed waiter or waitress and leave no tip.

[ncteechur]

52. Who exactly is the author, Valerie Strauss?

[madfloridian]

54. Lucky you. I googled a page of her articles.

http://labs.daylife.com/journalist/valerie_strauss

You are doing this on purpose with the one-liners and the teechur spelling...kind of sad.

This topic is showing people's motives clearly.

[Zambero]

53. The superintendent should have fired herself as well

She went ahead with her own "nuclear option" but in doing so did not hold herself accountable for whatever failure is taking place. Any absolute cleaning house should have included everyone in the food chain, top to bottom. Otherwise it's a sham. Hopefully the teachers in question will be re-instated so that a more selective evaluation can take place.

[northofdenali]

69. Terrific article. You SURE it came from the WP?? (sarcasm)

I was just looking at our state employment website. It seems our school bus drivers earn more than a beginning teacher. Sick society, just fucking sick.

[JDPriestly]

72. The school district should have required the parents to come in early

and tutor their children, to spend more time eating lunch with their kids at school and attending extra classes in the summers on how to help their children do better in school.

If we made parents work a little harder on preparing their children for each school day, the children would perform very well in school.

We need to talk about parent failures, not teacher failures.

Anyone who has watched what goes on in Family Courts, Dependency Courts or Juvenile Courts knows where the problem really is. Parents love having babies, but don't know how to raise children. Mandatory parenting courses for parents whose children do not measure up in school would do more to raise the level of performance than any other change in our system.

[raccoon]

73. I pity those who are so desperate to find any job that they replace those who were let go.

Chances are very good their heads will be on the chopping block too, before too much time has gone by.


"A very poor town, no job security, and a school board that has not a clue what they just did."

[walldude]

76. I did a post about "accountability" yesterday..

Are Bush/Cheney held "accountable" for their crimes? Wall Street for sinking the economy? The Pentagon for losing 1 trillion dollars? No, we can't be holding anyone with any kind of power or influence accountable for anything. What we do is give teachers a race car with no engine and no wheels and then hold them accountable when they don't win the Daytona 500. It's bullshit of the highest order.

[Bluebear]

82. You said it, my friend

[Mithreal]

86. well said

[walldude]

77. I did a post about "accountability" yesterday..

Are Bush/Cheney held "accountable" for their crimes? Wall Street for sinking the economy? The Pentagon for losing 1 trillion dollars? No, we can't be holding anyone with any kind of power or influence accountable for anything. What we do is give teachers a race car with no engine and no wheels and then hold them accountable when they don't win the Daytona 500. It's bullshit of the highest order.

[Dinger]

78. duncan Will Cost President Obama And Other Democrats In Upcoming Elections

Or maybe our votes aren't needed?