More Olympic shit about which to argue .... "Women's" vs "Ladies"

[Stinky The Clown]

The skating events, if not officially, are, at least by the talking heads, called Ladies' X, Y, or Z. The skiing events, speed skating, etc., however, are called Women's X, Y, or Z.

Is that discordant to anyone's ear?

[HeresyLives]

1. Either' men's and womens' or 'ladies and gentlemens'.

Not difficult for those not into Victoriana. :rofl:

[Bitwit1234]

32. I was thinking that also.

[hlthe2b]

2. It says quite a bit about the way in which the athletes in each

are viewed. I'd bet, if they could be honest, they view the men figure skaters through a very different lens than the other male athletes.

[frazzled]

8. Well, it shouldn't be

I dare say, a lot of the skating takes far more athletic prowess than a number of the sports. It's extremely demanding.

[hlthe2b]

10. It certainly does...

I think it is a combination of ignorance, misogyny and a bit of homophobia that is at play with some of these sports commentatators vis-s-vis their figure skaiting attitudes.

[MadMaddie]

3. Haven't the events always been referred to as "Womens"?

Not that it matters.....

[niyad]

4. pretty sure that, years ago at least, the women's skating events were called the "ladies" events.

[Stephanie]

5. Either one is acceptable

It sounds like there are different traditions in the different sports, but either one is fine, no worries. Ladies is actually a kind of sporty word to use, seriously. If you were ever in womens track in high school you heard that about every five minutes.

[Captain Hilts]

15. If they use comparable terms for men, then it's okay. If it's 'ladies', it should be 'gentlmen'.

[Stephanie]

21. It's not that big a deal. Mens Room, Ladies Room.

Grammatically you're correct, but practically it's common usage.

[Captain Hilts]

23. It IS a big deal. 'Women' are expected to be 'ladies' FAR more than 'men' are expected to be

'gentlemen'.

To be a 'lady' is earned, it isn't a function of merely being female. To be a 'woman' is to merely be an adult.

At Wimbledon, it's 'ladies' and 'gentlemen's.

[Stephanie]

25. It's common usage.

You are overthinking it. Seriously.

[DURHAM D]

26. If you don't get the big difference between ladies and women -

I don't think you are a female. gheez

[Stephanie]

27. That is your gentlemanly response?

I've been a female all my life, and in sports I never once took offense to a coach saying, "get a move on, ladies!"

"You go, girl!" is another phrase I've never found offensive. Maybe this is generational. What I really don't like is being called Ma'am.

[DURHAM D]

28. Huh

"gentlemanly" ??? look again

As for generational - I am 65 and played sports all of my young life including four years at the collegiate level.

Calling female athletes "ladies" is almost as bad as a male coach calling the male players "pussies".

[Stephanie]

29. Um, no it's not. Again, it's common usage. Maybe not in your day...

But seriously, you are being ridiculous. Have you never been to the Ladies Room? I think this is a generational issue. I am guessing you are a "woman" of the Ms. generation. Your rules are outmoded. Just FYI.

[DURHAM D]

30. I see the problem. At best you are careless with language.

Broad accusations like "you are being ridiculous" and "your rules are outmoded" says a lot about you.

conversation over

[Stephanie]

31. Really? Because you are insisting on language rules from the 60's?

Feminism has evolved. I think Gloria Steinem would agree with me.

[Javaman]

40. don't you also just love...

when posters announce that the conversation is over? LOL

I find that priceless. LOL

[Captain Hilts]

43. For someone you know to refer to you and yours as 'ladies' is one thing -

it's another to refer to 'women' as 'ladies' while referring to men as 'men'.

I often use 'ladies' in the exact same context - with folks I know - and I do it with 'gentlemen' as well.

[CTyankee]

38. What is wrong with the "Women's bathroom"?

Of course that is technically not correct. But we are not in Europe where "toletta" (such as in Italy) is commonly used. We AMericans just cannot bring ourselves to call a toilet a toilet...

[dustbunnie]

45. I like Peepee Chamber, myself. It's co-ed and everyone gets it in all languages.

[CTyankee]

48. Well, I'm sorry but it's just another American euphemism. Why can't we say "toilet?"

It makes no sense to me...:shrug:

[dustbunnie]

49. I was kidding. I don't know why toilet is such a dirty word either.

Restroom makes no sense, since nobody's going in there for a nap, and few of them outside of luxury hotels and 5-star restaurants actually have a lounge area. But the Europeans have euphemisms too. Wash closet is used a lot, and it doesn't exactly describe the room or the activity very well unless there's a bidet present, which isn't likely in a public scenario. I vote for toilet as well.

[CTyankee]

50. Uh, don't get me started. I started a bidet thread when I got back from Portugal last

fall, merely asking why we don't have bidets in the U.S. like they do in Europe. Some people went ballistic about it! I couldn't believe it...

So it's not just the broad base of the American people who like their euphemisms, it's right here on DU!

[dustbunnie]

53. Heh! Do you mean people went ballistic about the idea of them, or what they're called.

I think they're a wonderful invention and wish they were as common here too. :) Absolutely great for always maintaining high level cleanliness, and especially during the winter months it isn't great to shower every thirty seconds the way we do. It's very drying. But for some reason, the mention of them here disgusts people. Very strange. So if that's what you meant, yes, it wouldn't surprise me at all!!!

[CTyankee]

54. It was weird. DUers freaked out (not all of course). I'm not sure what motivated them.

I would love to know. They were just unnerved or maybe too upset at the idea that Europeans could be ahead of them in something...I don't know. One guy tried to get my thread banned as a "sex thread." I challenged him and he backed down. Thank god mods didn't go along with him....

Even the women I travelled with didn't have a great idea of bidets. They proclaimed them great for peeling the labels off of wine bottles or washing their socks. I challenged them and I think I got them thinking about their bias (we were all liberal DEMS for chrissake!).

It's a cultural bias. We're still too wrapped in our puritanical bias....so sad and so stupid...

[HeresyLives]

6. 'Gentlemen' don't drop gloves and slam each other

into the boards.

And 'ladies' don't play sports at all.

What century is this?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niyad]

14. Proud Crone here.

[texastoast]

20. I woudn't trade it

Hell no, I wouldn't. ;-)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[texastoast]

16. I didn't see four legs and a tail

Is something wrong with my TV?

[Captain Hilts]

17. Not a funny or helpful comment. nt

[MercutioATC]

19. "Funny" is in the eye of the beholder.

I will agree that it was completely unhelpful.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Are the 'men' ever referred to as 'gentlemen'?? I think not. nt

[Bluebear]

12. Don't quote me but I think the nomenclature comes from the sport's governing bodies

I do know that in figure skating it is indeed always "Ladies" rather than "Women".

[Captain Hilts]

18. And that's okay so long as they refer to the men as 'gentlemen'. nt

[bertman]

13. A few years back, when I was coaching a soccer team of 12 year old girls, there erupted a

raging debate among some of the parents because one of them said that his daughter was playing on a girls' team. The mother of another player went ballistic and demanded that it be called women's soccer.

For twelve year old girls.

Sometimes it makes me wonder.

[Stephanie]

22. Was the boys' team called men's soccer?

I sort of doubt it.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Okay, that made me laugh

:)

[CTyankee]

36. I have no problem with "girls" while in that age range. I like "young women" to

apply to, well, young women and I think you can start with that in high school. Most females ARE young women by the time they reach 9th grade, both physically and emotionally. It alternately shows respect and expects a certain level of maturity in response.

By the time young women get to college, it is sexist to the extreme to call them girls. The UCONN women's basketball team is an example: I hear these old guys say "Just love those UCONN girls!" to which I say "Yes, these young women on the UCONN WOMEN are superb athletes!" I just hope they can "hear" what I am saying...

[Captain Hilts]

44. Exactly. In sports lingo 'girls/boys' refers to high school. 'Men/women' to college.

The uses are specific to make sports pages more clear.

I HATE 'Lady' Monarchs. 'Lady' Vols.

Unless the men are 'Gentlemen' Monarchs or 'Gentlemen' Vols.

The term 'monarch' has no gender identity. QEII is a 'lady' but she isn't a 'Lady' Monarch, she's a monarch.

[Captain Hilts]

33. It's interesting how threads like this are UNrecommended. Folks just don't 'get' the issue.

And think it's trivial.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Par for the course

The charge is mostly fake outrage.

[Captain Hilts]

47. Aww...you're a real gent, Stinky. As always. Keep the faith. nt

[pipi_k]

34. Speaking from the perspective of someone who has often been called "sir"...

either one....ladies or women...is fine with me.



And yes, I have been called "sir" before...still am now.

Even in person, when I was younger, thinner (very small bosom, no hips), and had short hair.

I get called "sir" a lot on the phone, and people often mistake me for Mr Pip on the phone.


I don't mind the term "ladies", as in "Good morning ladies...here is what we're going to do today" (or something similar).

But I do find the term "lady" offensive if it's used snottily, such as "HEY LADY, get the hell outta the way, willya???" Or something similar.

[Captain Hilts]

35. I also, use 'ladies' in the context you cite. My peeps have earned that title. But so long as

'men' (Sale! Men's and Ladies' coats!) are rarely called 'gentlemen' we need to use 'gentlemen' more or 'ladies' less often.

Ladies/gentlemen
Women/Men

[pipi_k]

37. I agree...gender parity, if you will

Speaking of which, I just remembered a show I used to watch on BBC America called "Bargain Hunt"

a short description of the show:

"The Duke" is back! Don't miss all-new episodes of the original antiquing game show. Watch as two teams of amateur antiques collectors are set loose at a fair with a few hundred bucks and a mission to turn as big a profit in one hour as possible.

An antique expert is on hand to help them with advice on what to buy and how to haggle. The 'finds' are later sold at a local auction, and then the team to make the most profit wins.


OK, so the host of the show talks with the teams, which are made up of two people, often a male team and a female team, although they can be mixed....but when the teams are divided by gender, he will very often refer to them as "the men" and "the girls".

Even if the "girls" are both over 40...50...60

Haven't seen it in a long time...I just kept wanting to slap the host.

[DevonRex]

39. Give them time. They'll come around. And I LOVE how gay men are

front and center in skating. I've never heard any homophobic remarks made by anybody in skating, either from the sport officials or from the athletes or from our announcers, who mostly seem to be retired figure skaters. And BOO to those disgusting Australian announcers who dissed the gay skaters. Johnny Weir has more guts and strength than they'll EVER have.

About the "ladies" thing, I see what you're saying and I did notice it. I'm sure it will change with a bit of time. Not too long ago all women's basketball teams were known as the "Lady" this or that, whatever the team name was. Lady Vols, Lady Blue Devils, etc.

[Captain Hilts]

42. Right now there is a big scuffle in the Canadian press over references to Weir's sexuality. nt

[DevonRex]

51. Yeah I read that a little while ago and it burns me up.

They deserve to lose their jobs over it.

[Captain Hilts]

52. Yes, I agree. nt

[Shell Beau]

46. It doesn't bother me at all. I think I usually call it "women's" though.

There are other things for me to really care about. Either way, GO USA men and WOMEN!

[bertman]

55. Just tonight my wife and I were talking about her workday and she was referring to the

girl who came to their workplace to make an assessment. I asked her how old the girl is. She said "I'd guess around 28 or 30." I laughed out loud.

That's my Southern feminist honey for ya. Believe me, she don't take shit from nobody, but it's still "girls or gals" and "boys or guys". She uses the terms "women" and "men" also, but it's just interchangeable with the other terms, and no offense or slight intended.