Tea Party Terrorist Crashes Plane Into Government Building

[zaj]

Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Yup.

The manifesto could have come from any given teabagger.

[csziggy]

2. Do you have proof he was a Tea Party person?

I have not seen any yet, so if you have a link, please post it.

[Betsy Ross]

3. Why isn't he on all tv stations all day?

Didn't most stations carry the Ft. Hood incident all day? Why not the tea party terrorist? (I love that name!)

[muntrv]

4. But he's a whaaat krischin, so he's not a terrorist like those mooslims.

:sarcasm:

[Grand Taurean]

5. McVeigh/Tea Party, that is.

We do not know if he was a member or not though.

[AllentownJake]

6. Not many Tea Party people throw tributes to Marx

in their suicide/homicide notes.

This is not a cut and dry situation.

[Arkana]

18. Yeah, this.

I don't know what this guy was, but I don't think he would have marched with the Tea Klux Klan.

[AllentownJake]

24. I think he was an angry intelligent man

who was having troubles financially because of the economic downturn with business and about to lose everything after an IRS audit and possibly face jail time for tax evasion.

I think his manifesto was written in a way purposely to appeal to both the left and the right ideologically.

[gmoney]

25. I think he was just setting up his 'From each according to his gullibility..." quote

I don't think it was a "tribute" to Marx or socialism. His whole raison d'etre seemed to be NOT paying taxes by finding loopholes or just plain refusing to file.

[AllentownJake]

26. He does have a point on the small business/ independent consultant taxation issue

If you are a small business owner or independent consultant, you get fucked extra hard by the government.

No one is giving you money for tax breaks in the local, state, or federal government to stay when you employ yourself and a few others. Nor is anyone that worried about your survival.

Again, I have to repeat this, his actions are fucking horrible. However, I expect to see more of this type of thing during our current economic conditions, not less of it.

[riderinthestorm]

31. As a small business owner, I agree with you and I agreed with that part of this guy's manifesto.

I've been audited 3 times too and it's miserable, expensive and incredibly nit-picking. You absolutely cannot win, even if you've hired a professional to do your taxes - the tax code is very complex and they WILL get you if they want to (as horse professionals we are scrutinized very carefully since for many wealthy (wealthier than us!) people it's the perfect way to hide cash by buying and selling horses etc.)

We pay for a tax attorney to do our taxes. It's incredibly expensive but worth it if you've been audited. It's all very painful and makes my blood boil every year. You want to scream that you are the small potatoes and why aren't they really going after the big tax cheats who really ARE cheating the system instead of trying to ferret out every single nickel and dime, match up every receipt on such a small time farm.

[AllentownJake]

34. The guy was no slouch

I read his client list, some very big hitters, he wasn't out selling his services to small mom and pop operations.

http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-did-work-for

Significant amount of networking and work had to be done in order to secure those clients.

I have a feeling this wasn't his first battle with the IRS, and also judging by the economic climate, I doubt this guy had the business in 2009 that he had in the first half of 2008.

[riderinthestorm]

38. His IRS penalties really aren't that big but the aggravation he endured was probably horrific

I know when we were audited we got hit for this very small, petty amount for stupid things like muck boots and other really small items. The total we owed wasn't more than $500 but then they go after the year preceding that audit and the one that followed that audit looking for the same items (since typically most people have the same tax preparer). So cumulatively we got hit for close to $1500 for the three year span.

That $1500 the IRS got from us took days of meetings, thousands of hours cataloguing receipts, many, many sleepless nights and tears.

And it's ridiculous. I have no grudge against paying taxes! We've always paid our fair share and even though our tax preparer made the error on the deductions, I don't even begrudge the IRS trying to get every last cent. But it's the monumental stress for them to collect such a petty amount. It's crazy. When clearly there are far, far more serious tax crimes being committed.

They know though that small business owners have limited resources for fighting back. They stand a better chance of getting their blood from the small biz turnip than from the big corpos with their teams of lawyers.

And it truly can make one crazy - especially if this guy Joe Stark went through it once already in the 80s and was facing going through it all again. I know I'd be out of my mind which is why we don't even gamble anymore. It's a tax attorney so I never have to worry again - he'll go to bat for us, and eat the costs if he fucked up.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Or not.

http://www.salon.com/news/joe_stack/index.html?story=/opinion/walsh/politics/2010/02/18/stack_politics

[upi402]

8. This is from his manifesto and looks to be the opposite of a Teabagger

"Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies
, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."


You tell me. My thread got locked here when I tried to discuss where he stood on the political continuum. I asked if he was a teabagger or... not

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. The guy was all over the map politically and very very angry

I am more surprised how few casualties

[Lifelong Protester]

19. That's my takeaway also

he was on all parts of the spectrum. Troubled, in many many ways, and hard to pigeonhole I thought.

[upi402]

23. Yeah, he was all over the political continuum

I'm surprised how defensive some DUers are when we try to analyze the guy in the mercurial Teabagger context. Both are all over the place, more than us, even!

[madinmaryland]

32. Very, Very Angry. Like a lot of the teabaggers that I see.

Scary fuckers, if you ask me.

[AllentownJake]

35. Pretty much everyone in this country is pretty angry right now

That is more scary than anything else.

[madinmaryland]

39. Upset, yes. Angry, yes. Though throughout the * administration,

I do not recall the democrats or folks on DU calling or advocating for the death of thePpresident. Impeachment YES.

Look at the teabaggers. They run around openly showing their firearms and advocating for a violent overthrow of the government. I do NOT recall that during the * administration.

BIG difference.

[AllentownJake]

41. When some greeks bombed JP Morgan offices this week

It was rec'd and smiled upon. Don't tell me there isn't the same anger on our side, it is just directed at different people.

[madinmaryland]

44. I'm sorry, but I missed that report.

You are also right that there are those who use violence on "our" side. How about the so-called "eco" terrorists. Burning homes, cars, etc. They destroy property, but do not attempt to destroy human life. That to me is the difference between right and left "terrarists"

[AllentownJake]

46. If the plane crashed into Goldman Sachs headquarters

instead of a government agency, the tone on both here and the right winger sites would be different tonight.

I find this action abhorrent, but when you have what for all intensive purposes an economic depression going on, and institutions people trusted a few years ago appear to be now doing all in their power to fuck them, rhetoric and the actions of people who crack are going be vastly more radical than they were when people could go to work, fuck their spouse or significant other, send their children to school and worry mostly about their favorite TV show or sports team.

It is a simple fact of life.

A guy just bulldozed his house when he got a foreclosure notice, and most people are ok with him destroying it rather than the bank taking possession. This type of shit is going to become more frequent, not less in the coming months.

[madinmaryland]

47. Well, I see a difference between distruction of property and distruction of human life.

Secondarily, if you destroy your own property, so what.

I have a problem with any person damaging or killing a human life for a political statement to be wrong.

[AllentownJake]

49. You may

but don't treat this as a right vs. left is better on their rhetoric. Rhetoric on the banking industry from the left is as violent and angry as rhetoric on government institutions on the right and it is only going to get angrier and more crazy, as this suffering continues.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. Anger is not limited to teabaggers, or even just the right

[madinmaryland]

42. Did the left advocated for a violent overthrow of the * admin. I also

do not recall gun toting anti-government protestors or democrats flying their planes into government buildings.

Yes, there were protestors of a certain war who covered themselves in blood interrupting a congressional hearing.

NO FUCKING COMPARISON!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. To claim violence is the sole province of the right is inane. Both sides have their nutcases

Consider the firebombing at University of Hawaii by a private school chaplain...which goes back to the Vietnam War. Perhaps you are not old enough to remember armed Black Panthers in the street as well. Then there is the Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction, Earth First, and others. Then there were the aircraft hijackings. We have our violent nut cases too.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. After all everyone is so happy around here, right?

[Tim01]

9. I read where he said he was pissed about insurance and drug companies killing people.

Very tea-party-ish of him. I didn't realize those guys were for health care reform. Learn something new every day.

[Tunkamerica]

10. it must be fun to live in a black and white world

us vs. them all the time.

shades of grey are confusing and must be overlooked.

[RZM]

11. Your post is straightforward indeed

Unfortunately it doesn't have any of those pesky facts or pieces of evidence backing it up. Do that and you'll have something. Until then, all you've got is an unsubstantiated claim.

[Arctic Dave]

12. I am assuming you didn't read the suicide note.

[Betsy Ross]

15. It was the first thing I read after hearing of the crash.

I was away from news sources today and only overheard of the plane crash. When I read his note, I imagined someone who might identify with the tea party. Rereading it, I see he could lean left. But I am fairly used to hearing tea baggers say things that are self-contradicting so it could be hard to label this guy.

Yeah, we don't need to be screaming terrorist. But we probabaly won't learn any manners over this.

[Arctic Dave]

20. I have noticed that a lot of people on here want to play politics with this guy.

He was unstable for sure.

[AllentownJake]

27. The unstable thing bugs me as much as the insane line

I don't agree with his actions, nor will I pretend to understand what would compel you to crash a government building, but 53 year old men just don't snap and crash planes into buildings.

However, till I see evidence the man had a history of problems legally, I will not buy that he was unstable or mentally ill.

[Arctic Dave]

33. I agree the guy was sane as anyone else, however like you said, 53 y/o

don't usually do this. This guy snapped, this seems to me to be the story.

[AllentownJake]

36. His client list was online at one of the business blogs

Big clients for a small operation. The guy had a good reputation and did a significant amount of networking to get those contacts and business.

Snapping I'll agree with, you don't build that book of operations as a 1 person operation over many years being unstable.

[liberalmuse]

White, middle aged male snaps, kills or hurts dozens of people.

This happens all the time in America.

[holiday]

13. hmmm

I don't know if he would classify as a tea bagger but the anti-gov't crap they spew did NOT help the situation. I was just saying a couple of days ago about some of the stuff I use to hear from the far left, the far right is now using...anything to push distrust of the gov't. And that rhetoric gets to the wrong people, could make for a deadly situation. That rhetoric resonates with someone who already has a few screws loose and gets upset with the gov't..*sigh*

[Tim01]

14. Most people who've had interaction with the IRS understand why this guy flew a plane into their bldg

Not saying it was the right thing to do, but I understand.




I have a friend who can't have a checking account because the IRS keeps seizing his money and bouncing his checks, in spite of the fact he paid them off years ago. After they emptied his checking account for the 3rd time, after they said the problem was fixed, he gave up hope.

[Fire1]

29. I know people who've gone round and round with the IRS

for YEARS AND YEARS!! I've had a couple of run-ins with them myself. That's why I pay to have mine professionally done. Always. It's worth the money. This guy clearly was pushed over the edge.

[Cirque du So-What]

17. The guy's crazy rant was all over the board

One could make the case that he was an anti-government libertarian or an anti-capitalist Marxist. Just cherry-pick the proper phrases to support your thesis - in exactly the same way as the OP has done to portray this guy as a teabagger.

Your supposition is anything BUT straightforward.

[AllentownJake]

22. The guy was very intelligent and purposely wrote it that way from what I can tell

Business Insider had his client list. Some heavy hitters. He was probably very talented at what he did before he became Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

That being said, I have a feeling when they search his computer, they will see a mixture of visits to both right wing and left wing sites, where he picked his language.

At the end of the day, this guy was angry at the IRS in Austin Texas, and his action was directed at their office. His manifesto, is simply his justifying to the world why he felt the need to crash a plane into an office building.

[Toucano]

28. In the first paragraph he refers to his

"...gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head."

That's emblematic of someone who is very upset.

I think it is in part a case of "Straw meets camel's back"

[AllentownJake]

30. There is no due process with an IRS case

You are guilty till proven innocent. They can seize any asset you hold up to and including your residency and until you prove you do not owe the amount in the audit in court, they keep those assets frozen.

There are also criminal penalties associated with tax evasion.

If the man was facing those two things, he would be insane if there wasn't a storm raging in his head, even if his actions were part of what led him to that situation.

[riderinthestorm]

43. Exactly. Until you have been audited as a small business owner, you cannot imagine the wringer

you will face. Since he'd already been through it once before, I imagine he knew exactly what he had in store. It's pretty bad.

He didn't owe that much actually. But the reality of what the next few years were gonna be with the IRS probably caused him to become unhinged.

[upi402]

21. Maddow reports that facebook took a Teabagger page down

Not removed by the Teabaggers who are shocked to see the liberal diatribe and silly Marx quotes from the fool when they read the whole thing.

[emilyg]

40. Link to him being a Tea Party terrorist please.

[Odin2005]

45. Teabaggers don't rail against corporatist scum like this guy did in his suicude note.

[upi402]

48. True, this excerpt could've been a post on DU

The Insane Manifesto Of Austin Texas Crash Pilot Joseph Andrew Stack
http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-ins...

"Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies
, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."

[zaj]

54. You forget that they attack Obama for the "Bank Bailout"

[Kievan Rus]

51. What proof do you have he was a Teabagger?

I live in Pittsburgh and tried my hardest to paint George Sodini (the misogynist gym shooter) as a wingnut. I eventually gave up. It soon became obvious he was just nuts, period. The same holds true for this guy.

Richard Poplawski (the Pittsburgh cop killer) and Scott Roeder (the Tiller assassin) WERE wingnuts. This guy wasn't.

[Kievan Rus]

52. What proof do you have he was a Teabagger?

I live in Pittsburgh and tried my hardest to paint George Sodini (the misogynist gym shooter) as a wingnut. I eventually gave up. It soon became obvious he was just nuts, period. The same holds true for this guy.

Richard Poplawski (the Pittsburgh cop killer) and Scott Roeder (the Tiller assassin) WERE wingnuts. This guy wasn't.

[zaj]

53. The reality is that...

... if the roles were reversed, the liberal-analogous name to "Tea Party Terrorist" would be spread far and wide across both the MSM and the RW media. Though they would put the requisite "?" on the end to CYA.

The subtle potential conflicts of his ideology would be destroyed in the rush to demand accountability from the left.

That's the point I was trying to make here.