"You've got the Presidency, the Senate, and the House, and you STILL can't get anything done???"

[Kyril Enko]

That was the question asked of me last night in a telephone conversation with Jeff, a Canadian friend of mine. We worked together at a radio station in northern Ontario in the mid-1990s. He simply cannot fathom the notion that 41 is greater than 59.

In Jeff's country, a Prime Minister with a majority in parliament can pass whatever he damn well pleases. Sure, if you're a member of the PM's party, you're perfectly free to vote against the boss. But that will result in your immediate expulsion from the caucus, and having your former party's establishment nominating somebody else for your seat in the next election. I believe that it's something called "discipline."

I had no explanation for my friend last night, 'cause I can't fathom our fucked-up system myself!

[Mari333]

1. good question

unfortunately many of them work for corporations, not for constituents.

[Toasterlad]

2. We Don't REALLY Have 59

We have a bunch of DINOs who won't vote for anything progressive.

But your friend's point stands. Democrats typically have no balls, and make shitty leaders.

[DireStrike]

16. democratic politicians*

fixed that for ya.

[abq e streeter]

3. did you try to explain how the guy with half a million FEWER votes than the other guy

gets to be president? I've always assumed that must have baffled the shit out of our friends to the north (and south and east and west). But I have a hard enough time explaining the impotence of the modern ( past 30 yrs or so, but worse now than ever) Democratic party to myself much less to a furriner.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

4. Please tell your Canadian friend that we NEVER really had a majority.

We have a Democratic party that is split along ideological lines: there are liberals (Yellow Dogs), moderates, conservatives (Blue Dogs), and everything else in between. The Democratic Party in this country is NOT like the Republican Party, a party that has all but banished its liberal and moderate wing of the party. The Republicans have always demonstated amazing party discipline and that is because they tend to put the interests of the party before the interests of the country.

Please tell your friend that most Democrats want to do the right thing. There is always a very small minority--about 5 to 10 in the Senate--who tend to vote with Republicans on a host of issues.

The Democrats never really had a majority for these reasons.

[Oregone]

5. Are there liberals?

I never saw any votes on a single-payer amendment on the floor during the HCR debate (it never got presented at the end of the day). Even if it didn't pass, itd be nice to see "liberals" even existed that would vote for it. Right now, everyone and anyone can claim to be a liberal, being that no one has to actually be forced to vote for a true liberal policy (or even vote for cloture on one). What a system...you can claim to be anything but hide behind procedure to mask your real views (or those of lobbysists that appealed to you).

Seriously, when I start seeing substantially liberal policies get voted on (and I don't consider the HCR bill to be one of them), Ill agree there are liberals. In the meantime, their is a lot of policial positioning.

[elocs]

7. So, please explain how under Bush that Democrats could not muster 40 Senate votes

to put the brakes on the Bushco agenda? Excluding the Blue Dogs there were not at least 40 Democrats who would band together to do this? Because given your explanation the Republicans under Bush never had a majority either.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. They rammed everything through the Senate, the most important pieces of legislation

through Reconciliation because they were able to get Blue Dogs, like Evan Bayh to sign on to their agenda. That's how they did it. They also misused the filibuster, just like they're doing right now. The Dems tried the filibuster, but the Reps "went nuclear," demanding an up or down vote. Cheney as the President of the Senate broke ties when necessary.

Unfortunately those same Blue Dogs aren't willing to help out this president.

As for whether or not there are liberals, I think they are; their voices get drowned out by the corporate media and Corporatists Dems and Republicans. There ARE indeed liberals, but you'll never see Bernie Sanders on "Meet the Press" or mainstream talk shows/punditry shows going after the righties. He is rarely invited on to anything unless it's MSNBC. The parties are run by corporatists, really. The liberals don't stand a chance against these thugs.

[truedelphi]

41. Ohplease, is this party really all that split up?

Obama met over fifty to sixty times with some of the most conservative Republican Senators and Hosue members while last summer's legislation for HCR was being put together.

The two parties are both pledged to support the Big Money Interests of this nation.

That is why the first thing out of Barack Obama's mouth in Late January 2009 was how important to him it was to be bipartisan.

If he really was on the side of the average person, the first thing he would have said would have been, "Single Payer Universal Health Care. I endorsed this concept when running fo0r the Senate back in 2004, and I said then and will repeat now, that it is the best and only logical solution to the Health Care Crisis here in America."

IF LBJ could have the Civil Rights Act not only pieced together as legislation, but signed into law the first week of July 1965, then Obama could have stood on his bully pulpit and pushed and pushed and used Rahm for the maneuvers that would have at least brought forth a piece of HCR legislation that would

1) roll back the prices on insurance policies,
2) roll back the prices on Medical Procedures,
3) and that would roll back the prices on Drugs,
4) prohibit any Health Care Insurer from having any bonuses or salaries above the ten million dollar mark
5) disallow the ability of the Insurers to exclude those of us with prior medical conditions (pre-existing conditions)
6) Anti Trust provisions to take full effect against the Insurance companies

But instead we all saw how Rahm and brother Ezekiel were very busy last summer meeting with these Big Medical Interest people and creating huge give aways for them.

And meanwhile the Dems in Congress were allowing for the sixty vote or else a filibuster tactic to succeed.

Last night on Rachel Maddow none other than Ezra Klein stated that "the Democrats are scared." And that is the truth. The majority of the Democrats are very very afraid that the curtain will be pulled back, and we the average voters will see that the little man behind the curtain pulling the strings is Big Money. And that the Dems have been doing everything possible to allow that little man behidn the curtain to succeed, including allowing the President to come up with the most seriously ridiculous tactics ever imagined so as to give away the full force power of a 62% mandate received on November 4th 2008.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. Doesn't matter. It only takes ONE (1) Senator to stop the entire legislative

process.

By the way, I'm a huge Kucinich fan!

[harun]

6. We don't live in a democracy we just play one on TV.

[Kyril Enko]

9. Sadly, you're right

For all our bluster and Grand Pronouncements For All The World To See, we've not been a true democracy for three decades now!

[NM_hemilover]

13. I freaking LOVE that ! THAT needs to be a bumber sticker !

[NM_hemilover]

14. That can be expanded ,

I'm not a Democrat, I juat play one on TV, I'm not a humanitarian I just play one on TV. on and on and on

Made my day, perfect quote !

[Vidar]

23. Great line, and all too true.

[Golden Raisin]

44. And Democracy, the Republic

and the People got and continue to get sucker-punched in the face worse than Snooki.

[Festivito]

8. We don't and didn't have the Senate, and it blocks everything.

In fact, we might not even have 50 votes in the Senate, let alone 60 or 59.

It's not our votes that gain us power anymore, it's the money and power that determines where we can vote and for whom.

[FrenchieCat]

10. We got plenty done,

just not enough to satisfy the Naysaying media and those who swallow what they offer.


Here are a few posts to study!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=185028&mesg_id=185188


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=185758&mesg_id=186025

[Kyril Enko]

11. No health care reform, no climate change legislation, just the stimulus.

And even that was half-assed: Obama should have listened to Krugman!

[FrenchieCat]

21. What would have happened under President Krugman?

You think the senate would have voted for Cap & Trade? The House voted for this bill.
The Senate is the one without the votes.

As for health Care reform, it isn't gone yet.

"Just" a Stimulus means $862,000,000 into the economy. That's not a "Just".

As for what was half-assed, so says you.....the Senate wasn't gonna give anymore.

Funny thing, it's much easier to talk shit about what could have happened,
then in actualy facing the facts and being honest that it wouldn't have been easy as that.

We don't have a dictator President, but we do have a giant ass Corporate media
ready to pounce. Figure that shit into the equation, before you point fingers.
I know it feels really good to blame others, but in reality, you are only pretending
that everything would have been "just so" "only...if".
Makes things real easy for you....I know.

[freddie mertz]

39. Is Krugman running or something?

I must have missed that.

[AlinPA]

28. I agree with you about accomplishments, except for Health Care Reform. The Democrats have

given up. Pelosi keeps promising, Reid crawls into his hole and nothing happens. (When Reid comes out of his hole, he sees the HCR shadow and runs back in for another 6 weeks of delay)

[Greyhound]

35. rotfl

:rofl:

[freddie mertz]

38. The president is never responsible for failures, not now, not ever, ever, ever.

Blame the media, blame the House, blame the Senate (OK I'll grant you that one, to a point).

Meanwhile: Why doesn't the president endorse the reconciliation efforts that are starting up right now?

Better that than wasting more precious time on the phantom of bi-partisanship.

Honestly, I get so frustrated...

[Ozymanithrax]

12. Depression averted...but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Kyril Enko]

15. How about "pleasing" the MAJORITY of the people???

Isn't that kinda/sorta/maybe what the government is supposed to do?????

[bvar22]

25. Depression averted?

...and Pat Robertson prayed away a hurricane too!

[DisgustedInMN]

33. Oh really?

Are you sure about that? There's millions of us out here that would disagree with your condescending one liner. We don't have jobs. We don't have incomes. We had our savings and retirement stolen from us. We are still at risk of losing everything we've worked our lives building. Millions are homeless. Millions go to bed hungry. Fully 1/6 of the population has no access to even basic health care. There are 5 times as many homes sitting empty as there are homeless people.

So..

.. you were saying?????

:rant:

[Greyhound]

34. "THANK GAWD IT PASSED!!!!1!"

You guys are so funny...
:rofl:

[treestar]

17. It's not a Parliamentary system

The Houses can make their own rules, too.

If he's that uninformed, maybe we can say ignorance is not limited to Americans. Why not find out about how the system works before he judges it?

[Kyril Enko]

18. Our loss, IMHO!

And let me let you in on something: Foreigners knew a HELLUVA lot more about our system than we know about theirs!

Your words evince Bush-style arrogance, which is exactly why the world LUVS us so much!

[Echo In Light]

19. Phony rep democracy, that's why. By design. There's no actual 'oppositional' party

A few good reps, yes, to be sure...but mired within a failed, broken system.

[B Calm]

20. To put it bluntly, WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT CORPORATIONS CAN BUY!

[grahamhgreen]

22. BINGO!

[Kablooie]

24. Ja vol, mein herr.

[Kyril Enko]

32. God Bless US, Every One(dollar bill)

And I'm proud to be an American/Where at least I'm foolish enough to believe I'm free...

[Roland99]

43. And corporations get their money from us (and those abroad)

We have to vote with our conscience *and* our pocketbooks.

[Better Believe It]

26. That's because Republicans can run the Senate with 41 members and Democrats can't with 59

It makes perfect sense to me!

[Foo Fighter]

27. They're getting plenty done.

For their corporate masters. IOW, the system is working as designed. Regardless which wing of the corporate party is in power, the PTB always get what they want.

[Yurovsky]

30. I try not to be that cynical...

but the older I get, the harder it becomes.

Hiring Geitner & keeping Bernanke pretty much convinced me that Wall Street had made a deal with BHO in order for him to get the nomination and enough $$$ to win the general election. But I still harbored a notion BHO would do the right thing... I even hold out some sliver of hope that he'll do some progressive things in a 2nd term. But if he actually does I'd be worried for his personal safety. Big corporate isn't above whacking Presidents who get in their way (see JFK...)

[tomp]

37. you should try harder to BE that cynical....

....because it's based in truth and it is the beginning of the solution.

there is only one party in the u.s., and it serves the rich.

[ProudDad]

31. The Canadians have something approaching a democracy...

We USAmericans have an oligarchy wrapped in a corporatocricy under an undemocratic system designed to protect wealth and privilege...

And they have Universal Single-Payer Health Care... We have for-profit SHIT...

[harun]

45. +1

[mmonk]

36. You can if you are Republican President and have a majority in Congress.

They don't have members that are really a con job. They are what they say they are.

[Individualist]

40. Tell your friend there's a big difference between a Democratic majority and a DLC controlled

majority.

[fascisthunter]

42. maybe because the Dems are controlled by piece of shit corporatists

the kind of dems that confuse most voters because they never are what they claim to be.