TRUE COLORS >> Gates: Don't rush to lift ban on gays in military

[Bluebear]

My big, brave military hero. :eyes:



WASHINGTON – The United States should not rush into a change as large as repealing the ban on gays serving openly in the military without making sure the people it affects are on board, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Wednesday.

Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said an 11-month study into the effects of lifting the ban will examine practical questions such as how the change would affect the numbers of people who decide to remain in the service when their terms expire.

"There is very little objective data on this. It is filled as you know with emotion and strongly held opinions and beliefs," Mullen said a day after announcing his own opposition to the ban as unfair to gay troops.

"That's the work we have to do over the course of this year. We need to understand that in terms of what the senior military leadership's principal concern is, which is the readiness and military effectiveness of the force," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100204/ap_on_go_co/us_military_gays_gates

[maxsolomon]

1. the objective data is clear

straight and gay people can, and do, work side by side every day in 'murka without the straight people freaking out about it.

it's a shame the tough straight guys in the military are so scared of change. maybe because they don't seem to have much of a problem harassing the women they work with, they expect teh gaez to do the same to them. which, you know, is pretty fucking stupid.

the senior military leadership's principal concern is the irrational emotions of their employees.

[EFerrari]

6. No, Gates is a Bush/Republican fixer from 'way back.

He doesn't care about his employees. He doesn't have to.

[Orsino]

2. Two centuries ago, we might have called it rushing.

Gates is pretending to have learned nothing from racial and sexual integration of the services, and wants us to believe we have to start all over.

[boppers]

3. A plethora of potential issues:

Survivor benefits?
Medical/legal authorizations by partners?
Visitation rules?
Harassment rules?
Policy and procedure changes?
Disciplinary guidelines?
Conflicts with existing state laws?
Conflicts with existing laws in foreign nations?

[Bluebear]

8. Explain what you mean. Harrassment rules, for instance?

Does the military not have guidelines for harrassment? Conflicts with state laws about what, being gay? How does our military care about laws of foreign nations?

[boppers]

18. In more depth:

Harassment: What defines harassment of a GLBTQ service member, that might not be covered by the existing systems? What are the remedy channels? Are they the same as other forms of harassment, or different? Do we have appropriate mechanisms in place?

State laws: Utah, for example, forbids any treatment of same-sex couples similar to marriage, how would this affect local base privileges by partners? Child care? Off-base facilities? State programs for service members?

Foreign nations: Gay service members in Saudi Arabia, what are the issues?

[Bluebear]

21. Sounds more a problem for Utah and Saudi Arabia to figure out, frankly.

[lazarus]

10. easy

All have been dealt with. I served with many gays in the military, and everyone knew about them, and nobody cared except for the occasional witch hunt.

Survivor benefits?

DOMA

Medical/legal authorizations by partners?

DOMA

Visitation rules?

DOMA

Harassment rules?

Already in place

Policy and procedure changes?

Already in place, to the extent they need to be

Disciplinary guidelines?

Already in place

Conflicts with existing state laws?

14th Amendment

Conflicts with existing laws in foreign nations?

Already dealt with concerning women in uniform.

[boppers]

23. Lots of DOMA in there...

If a service person can be legally married in one state, but not in another state, things can get pretty tricky, depending on where they're stationed, no?

Actually, I'd kind of welcome seeing those kind of fights, where states were trying to revoke military benefits to veterans over their sexuality... there's definitely a losing side to that fight.

[lazarus]

26. yeah, DOMA needs to go

And quickly.

[msongs]

4. dems to push it back til repubs have enough votes to block, then dems can blame repubs nt

[EFerrari]

5. CF with this report on Amy's show today that shows

a quick, clear change has worked best in other nations.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/3/repeal

(Audio, video, transcript at link.)

[Renew Deal]

7. I don't get what your problem is.

Almost all the major players are on board and say they want to end the policy. We wouldn't have even been talking about it if Obama and the Dems hadn't brought it up. Yet you choose to post something inflammatory questioning their integrity. That makes me question your motives.

Watch Gates say clearly that he wants to change the policy. He explains why it will take a little time. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x430368

[Bluebear]

9. I could give a shit what you think about me or my motives. 'Nuff said.

[Renew Deal]

12. That's obvious

Someday you might actually give Obama credit for doing something right.

[Bluebear]

13. This was about *Gates*, not about Obama, delicate flower

[Renew Deal]

14. Did you watch the video?

Gates says Obama directed him to make the change happen.

[Bluebear]

15. Then why did he come out with this statement today? Gee, I don't know what your motives are. Go away

[Renew Deal]

16. He didn't

He mentioned it last week: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7609131

And the "several year process" started last year.

They are doing everything to change the policy. That's why I don't get what you're upset about.

[Bluebear]

20. You don't care what I am upset about, you wonder what my motives are. You said so.

Whether the Pentagon "started" the process last year is not certain, and Gates statement makes it clear that another year is necessary to hear from WHO THIS AFFECTS . . .and I guarantee you it ain't the gay servicepeople. So, again, what are your motives to minimize this?

[Forkboy]

17. Not having equal rights is a pretty big problem.

Do you have yours?

[EFerrari]

19. Right. And that Rand study he wants already says clearly that DADT

needs to go.

He doesn't need another one.

[QC]

11. Don't worry--it's all a super duper double reverse ultra mojo jujistu move

that will catch us all by surprise when everything falls perfectly into place.

Chess!

[Bluebear]

22. I don't get what your problem is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7635092&mesg_id=7635278

[QC]

24. I'm just a terrible person, that's all.

It's enough to make people question my motives.

[Bluebear]

25. Well, shut up and watch a video.

[Starry Messenger]

27. It affects gay soldiers.

WTF.