Thank Gawd for Diebold!!

[BeFree]

Diebold is a Corporation that counts our votes. Used to be, election officials counted the votes and there were lots of eyes involved.

Now just a few eyes oversee the vote counts, because we have Diebold computers now, and computers are almost perfect!!

And Diebold is almost perfect. I say almost, because they used to use a machine called a DRE- Direct Recording Electronic, that they told us was the best thing since Wall Street. Thing is, those DRE's are all but outlawed now.

So, Diebold isn't perfect, but they're close, eh? They only really badly messed up just two or three elections. But now they're golden.

In just a few hours after the polls close, Diebold will tell us who won the election. The Diebold numbers won't even have to be double-checked, we can trust them.

Sure, Diebold is a corporation that has replaced little old ladies counting our votes, but that's a good thing, right?

[Enrique]

1. do they use DREs in MA?

I just read that they used Optical Scans.

[BeFree]

3. DRE's = Now Outlawed

But Diebold sold us about a million DREs in 2003.
Which were used in the 2004 election.

Georgia still uses DRE's, and that's just about it.

The opscans in MA are made by the same people. No reason to worry. Computers are perfect. They never make mistakes... well... not too often, anyway.

[KittyWampus]

6. What I've been told is computers really don't make mistakes. They do what they are programmed to do

and that's the rub.

But I have a feeling you believe that.

[Enrique]

7. I thought op scans had a good reputation

no one says computers are perfect, but they are often a big improvement. Imo, op scans are much better than punch cards, for example.

[BeFree]

11. Sure

And Diebold's reputation is a shining example of corporate responsibility!

And threw all those little old ladies who used to count the votes under the bus. Haha! Take that, citizens of America. We no longer need you. And Diebold counters are made overseas!! Yeeeeha!

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. An optical scanner is still a computer.

And it can still be easily hacked. Technically there are paper ballots, but the election will be called based on what the computer database says, not what's actually on paper.

[dflprincess]

23. We use optical scanners in Minnesota

they do have a paper trail and that paper trail can be used for recounts. Turned out that that worked well for us.

How the election is called will all depend on how close the totals are and what Massachusetts law says about that. Though, if a candidate has reason to suspect something went wrong, I imagine they can ask for a recount but though they might have to pay for it if the computer totals are outside the limits for an automatic recount.

[demodonkey]

13. Pennsylvania = approx 7.5 million voters still on paperless DREs.

PA is the State of Denial, and still on track to become Ohio or Florida in some future election.

[Wilms]

Optical Scan is just as hackable.

So without an adequate audit (which in fact will not happen), or something to trigger a hand recount (where we feel assured that the ballots had not since been tampered with, something likely to not happen), Diebold is calling this one too.

Now of course before this current system, they probably had plenty of computerized vote counting in MA dating back a ways. But there were still rural areas hand counting, and through a misinterpretation of a bad law to begin with, HAVA has eaten up a lot of hand-counting in addition to wiping out polling places.

It's a form of vote suppression, intended or otherwise.

[Enrique]

15. they have a paper trail

they keep the papers with the markings on it, don't they.

What's wrong with MA's recount system? I don't live there and I don't know how it works.

[janet118]

17. They only do an auto recount if winning margin is .5 or lower

If it's larger, it doesn't matter what paper ballots say.

[Enrique]

19. the Franken-Coleman election had optical scans

Coleman wasn't able to steal it.

[Wilms]

20. The margin was such that there was a recount.

A messy recount keeping Franken out of the Senate for a while.

Just remember, there was paper in FL2000. DREs are a non-starter. And Optical Scan comes with it's own set of challenges.

[dflprincess]

24. The first recount was automatic because the vote difference fell

within the margins of an automatic recount and so it was done at state expense. The 2nd recount was because Norman refused to accept the outcome of the first one and that's when it really began to cost both candidates money.

Had the original vote count been close, but not within the automatic recount parameters, whoever had the fewest votes could have asked for a recount, but they would have had to pay for it.

[timeforpeace]

2. When we win, we love them. When we lose, we blame them! A perfect symbiotic relationship.

[apocalypsehow]

4. +1

[BeFree]

8. Love them, who?

You love Diebold?

[peace13]

10. I live in Ohio and have seen several elections stolen...that we know of.

Trust me in 2008 we didn't 'love them'. We hoped like hell that the thing would be too big to steal. We were lucky! Sadly change is not on it's way with regard to these machines. Even our SOS who deemed them 'easily hackable' two years ago has moved on to other issues.

[FreeJG]

5. IT's all in the audit system....

And when we win, it's usually because the public sentiment and backlash is so bad...they know a dem is going in. Now...look at their voting records. We have a party of DINOS!

(democrat in name only)

[California Griz]

9. Can someone help me out here am I in hell or the twilight zone.

Got to be one of the two.

[BeFree]

14. Welcome to our nightmare, Griz

There's a whole lot of Diebolding going on.

Who knows who was really elected and who wasn't?
Only Diebold knows fer sure.

[demodonkey]

12. Um.............. Diebold no longer exists, and that means it's gotten WORSE.

Diebold was bought up last fall by ES&S, and that privately-held company (that we don't even know who owns it) now will be counting about 75% of our votes nationally.

There are investigations and lawsuits pending to halt this merger, but one private company gobbling up this much of the market for our voting systems is not a good sign for democracy.

[BeFree]

21. Hey

Good to see you still hacking away at the damn things.
The votes we save may be our own, eh?

[Guilded Lilly]

16. Another Buckeye chiming in

who has lived three decades in a town five minutes from Diebold's headquarters.

We are going to have to win extra big in Mass. Much bigger than the normal majority win would suggest. Diebold was an unabashed supporter of the Bush administration...blah, blah, serious voter miscalculations, blah.

[tritsofme]

22. When do they start moving the junk back to the dungeon? nt

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Wasn't funny in 2004 either, with what was at stake.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happy_liberal]

26. Strangely Chavez was able to get his electronic voting machines with reciepts

I didn't know they could do that...