I support the officer in Seattle who shot and killed Clemmons

[cali]

Imagine. He was sitting in his patrol car at 3 in the morning writing up a report when he saw Clemmons and recognized him. Clemmons turned out to have been armed. The Seattle police maintain that the patrol officer ordered Clemmons to stop and put his hands above his head. They say he didn't.

Yes, I think cops are often over zealous and use gratuitous violence and questionable tactics. In this case, with one lone cop facing someone who he knew was not only dangerous and a killer but out of his fucking mind, I don't see how anyone could second guess the cop's actions.

[Bitwit1234]

1. Yes you are correct in this case he should not have taken a chance

and, we see the guy still had one of the cops guns. So I don't think it was over zealous. But if this person had six known people helping him, you better believe that they will yell police brutality.

[leftstreet]

2. He's an idiot. He could have gotten killed. It's called BACKUP

:eyes:

[cali]

3. so as the guy approached him, he was supposed to call back up?

What makes you think he had the time to do that?

[leftstreet]

6. The suspect was following the cop? That's a new development n/t

[cali]

8. The officer was sitting in his car writing up a report when Clemmons

approached him. That's what the SPD says.

[leftstreet]

10. Oh, my mistake. So Clemmons was wanting to turn himself in then?

Interesting

[cali]

18. turn himself in? or maybe kill another cop. Given what he'd already fucking done

and that he was psychotic, I'd bet on the latter. You, of course, are going out of your way to blame the cop and excuse the poor little murderer.

[bettyellen]

29. what an ignorant thing to say. not funny at all.

[Pavulon]

33. Missed that boat didn't. Now he is a shitstain on the bowl.

who fucking cares. At least that officer gets to live another day.

[madokie]

39. Hopefully for many more years

[liberalhistorian]

7. Ummmm........right. The dangerous armed

multiple-cop killer is heading right for him and he's just supposed to stop and call for backup, like there was a whole helluva lot of time. Right. Yeah. Like he wouldn't have been killed if he HAD waited and called for backup. What color is the sky on your planet?

[gratuitous]

4. Bold stand

Very contrarian in this society and at this website.

Wait, no it isn't.

[liberalhistorian]

5. Absolutely. I don't see how he could have

done any differently. I expect that there will be those who will be yelling that he should have waited for Clemmons to shoot HIM before doing anything, though. I'm sure glad I'm not Clemmons facing his maker right now. Then again, I wouldn't have spent my life stealing, raping and murdering, either.

[cali]

9. Actually, there are those saying that what the cop did was little better than

what Clemmons did.

[Pisces]

22. Who are those people? Doesn't look like many on this board are saying that.

[cali]

26. .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7123083&mesg_id=7123083

[Astrad]

11. Jean Charles de Menezes

Do you support the officers in that incident too? They also had reason to believe he was dangerous. Unless Clemmons took actions that were clearly threatening, it's never wise to shoot someone because you just may be wrong about who they are. The details haven't come out yet so it's unclear how Clemmons responded. So support for the officer's actions in this case might be premature.

[mrbarber]

13. As would support for Clemmons being the innocent victim.

Judging by the four dead officers, and the fact that the police officer who finally took down that madman was alone against a known armed and dangerous assailant, I'm not going to crucify the officer just yet.

[cali]

15. No, and I think the comparison is wholly spurious

The officer in Seattle recognized Clemmons. He ordered him to put his hands up. He didn't. Was he just supposed to let the guy go?

[Astrad]

19. Why is it spurious?

The officers who pursued De Menzes were convinced they had the right person. They were wrong. This officer was right. But from the details so far, both followed a similar modus.

[Pavulon]

35. Yep. The law allows lethal force in a situation in which you BELIEVE

your life is in danger and others would have a similar assumption. So unless the officer put this turd on his knees and executed him he is in the clear.

[TCJ70]

23. Given that Clemmons just...

...walked up and shot 4 police officers, the very act of walking up to another police officer is a threatening act for this guy.

[Pavulon]

34. my big toe and a banana peel?

The report is that the guy with an officers gun and a hole blown in him failed to respond and went to his waistband. He should have saved the officer the mental anguish and just shot himself in the head.

You pull that shit in any country in europe and you are just as dead. Not a unique thing.

So unless the officer put him on his knees and put a round in the back of his head he has my support.

[subterranean]

12. I don't second-guess his actions either.

If Clemmons didn't want to get shot, he could have stopped and put his hands in the air. He chose to run. He was believed to be armed and dangerous, and the officer did what was necessary to stop him.

[proteus_lives]

14. I support him too.

He did the right thing.

If Cop-Killer Clemmons was coming at me at 3am, I wouldn't wait for back-up either. I'll tell him to get on the fucking ground and if he didn't then I'd shoot him.

Washington State is now safer place because of the LEO's actions.

[hayu_lol]

20. The officer took the right response to the threat...

thanks Cali. Too many here are rabid 'pig' haters no matter what.

I suspect that there was no time to call for backup. Lighting was non-existant so far as I know. Some here would have been shot while attempting to corner what was obviously a mad dog.

The officer had NO choice in these circumstances.

[Obamanaut]

16. So do I. And Huckabee should be ashamed for being instrumental

in Clemmons' release.

[RC]

24. I can hear the screaming now, if Clemmon had been released by a Dem.

But all anyone is gonna hear is :::crickets:::

[exboyfil]

27. You have to be kidding

It is mentioned in every news story that I have read, several Republicans have condemned the clemency (and many of them condemned the number and type of clemencies/pardons even before the shooting). I work with a big Iowa supporter of Huckabee, and he said that Huckabee is toast as well. Huckabee is done, and he is not coming back.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. I think that Clemmons was looking for suicide by cop from the very beginning.

And he found it with this officer.

[mistertrickster]

21. Agreed. Given the history, the officer had no choice. nt

[Romulox]

25. Forget cop for a second. Self defense is a human right. nt

[stray cat]

28. Instead of turning the other cheek and getting killed?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. I support the administrative leave and investigation of the officer who shot Clemmons...

the leading suspect of the shootings of those four police officers. Assuming it's found his shooting was justified, I fully support his return to regular duty.

[cali]

37. from reports, it doesn't sound as if there is any justification to put the cop

on administrative leave.

[applegrove]

31. From your description it sounds like the policeperson had no choice. That is why

you shouldn't walk around as a deranged mass murderer with a gun. That is just asking for trouble.

[ShamelessHussy]

32. wow - what a massive limb you stand on

[ismnotwasm]

36. Well, yes.

I get the feeling that people aren't understanding the whole story. The police have neighborhood witnesses who heard the officer shout out warnings, it's not just something the police decided to make up. The picture of the suspect was all over the place. Everyone was on alert. It was scary for a lot of people. Four people were shot dead. I wonder what the reaction would be if those four human beings were not police officers?

It's sadly interesting, the Seattle police do have a history of questionable shootings, but in this case I don't see that the officer had any other choice.

Our entire justice system evidently failed, failed the four police officers shot dead, and the failed this shooter, who sounds like he was one more institutionalized person who needed proper evaluation and follow up when in prison and continuing evaluation, support and mental health care after.

But our justice system doesn't give a shit about any of that.

There are certain treatment/behavior models that work, even with violent offenders. They aren't cost effective however, as long as prison is an industry, we'll never see them implemented in any large way. They don't always work of course, but they're better than what we have now, what's basically a human grindhouse.

[madokie]

38. I agree with cali on this

I've had a cop with a 12 gauge stuck in my gut before and after the words he heard from this just recently returned from VN Vet changed his life, He quit the force and got a job in manufacturing, We still speak when we see each other and the words spoken is with respect shown to the other by both of us.
Being a cop is a tough business

[sendero]

40. I believe the police report..

... about as much as I believe anything I read on the internet. It might be true, it might not.

In any event, whatever the circumstances, I don't care that the cop shot the bastard, there is no question about what he did and why spend 3 million dollars on a pointless trial.