Apple Computer refuses to honor warrantees of computers exposed to smokers

[steven johnson]

Looks like the snobby company for snobby people has unilaterally decided to void their warrantees on computers without giving any refunds. Just another reason to buy a PC.

Apple just laid down the gauntlet with smokers announcing that it won’t honor the warranty on a product that’s been exposed to smoke.

Consumerist on Friday reported that Apple has denied several users repairs under its AppleCare Protection Plan (APP) because the machine had been exposed to smoke.

The first case involved a Mid-2007 MacBook under APP that was brought to the Jordan Creek Apple Store in West Des Moines, Iowa, for overheating. Apple voided the warranty because the computer was used in a house where there was smoking. It also refused to work on the machine due to the “health risks of second hand smoke.”

Apparently Nicotine is on OSHA’s list of hazardous and toxic substances (although I couldn’t find it) and Apple will not force an employee to work on anything deemed hazardous to their health because of the obvious legal exposure that could create.

Apple to smokers: butt out or void your warranty

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. I would like to think there are many more toxic things in a laptop PC than smoke. eom.

[smalll]

2. " ... refused to work on the machine due to the 'health risks of second hand smoke.''"

On a machine brought into their store. No one was asking them to visit the evil smoker's home to fix it. Will wonders never cease. :shrug:

[dysfunctional press]

7. that caught my eye as well...

utter.
insanity.

[MattBaggins]

40. Have you ever opened the computer of a smoker?

It is worse than being in their home. It is down right disgusting. I used to be a smoker and would gag opening my own box.

[Ezlivin]

3. That's why MY company switched its employees from tobacco to hemp

Our extended warranties are still covered and the office is delightfully mellow.

[Ellipsis]

4. Apparently not your average smoker...

[On the Road]

5. Considering the Lead and Other Toxic Materials

used in the maufacture of circuit boards and other PC components, it seems like a real stretch for Apple to focus on whatever nicotine has been retained by the plastic components.

[Patsy Stone]

14. Saving the bottom line

by voiding customer warranties one at a time.

[anigbrowl]

22. not so as regards lead

Most computer components are now made with lead-free solder paste. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead-free_solder In fact, thanks to regulation it's slightly cheaper to get your components lead-free nowadays.

[Occulus]

44. There are lots and lots of more dangerous heavy metals in computer components

The ferrofluid that seals the interior of hard drives from dust, for starters.

[DontTreadOnMe]

6. Obviously you are a smoker

Have you seen the trend on Ebay where the seller states the items is being sold from a "non-smoker" seller.
That is because you can SMELL the smoke on an item coming from someone who is either smoking while packing the item, or in an environment where there is alot of smoke.
It sticks to everything. You can smell it right away. Especially items with fabric or cardboard.

I have purchased items from Ebay, and upon opening the box, I can smell disgusting cigarette smoke.

Have you sat in a smoker's car? It's disgusting.

I think it is A GREAT IDEA for Apple to not honor SMOKER"S ANYTHING... it IS a health concern for a non-smoker to work on any item laced with smoke particles.

Don't like it? Stop smoking!

Now go stand in the rain and have your smoke outside while the rest of us are working at our jobs inside the building.
Stand out there like a fool sucking on your butt. Smokers are pathetic! I fart in your general direction!

[dysfunctional press]

10. i'm a non-smoker who thinks the policy is asinine...

along with all the other second-hand smoke bullshit, especially considering all of the substances that most people come into contact with on a regular basis, anyway.

it's all incredibly silly.

[Ellipsis]

18. In the day I worked with a heavy smoking old Mac tech...

He would never put his ash tray near the air intakes, he had seen how tar caked on components. They'd get pretty "gerby" inside sometimes.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?s=b646d8d4d3a0e4d72e9070e6922640d4&p=1524469&postcount=35

I can see voiding a warranty for abuse, but a health hazard...that's probably the techs personal statement.

[krabigirl]

16. You can be against policies like this and be a non-smoker.

[Doremus]

33. Have you ever smelled a house with a working fireplace?

Ever smelled someone after barbecuing or sitting in front of a fire?

Disgusting? To some. Probably not to most.

Funny thing is, it's the same exact smoke.

http://burningissues.org/pdfs/WoodSmBroharris.pdf



What’s in Wood Smoke?

Wood smoke contains over 100 different chemicals and compounds, including
dioxin, as well as lead, cadmium and arsenic.

Below is a partial list:
*+carbon monoxide, methane, VOCs (C2-C7),
*aldehydes, +formaldehyde, *+acrolein, +pro-
pionaldehyde, butyl aldehyde, +acetaldehyde,
furfural, substituted furans, +benzene, +alkyl
benzenes, +toluene, acetic acid, formic acid,
*nitrogen oxides (NO, NO2), *sulfur dioxide,
+methyl chloride, +naphthalene, +substituted
naphthalenes, oxygenated monoaromatics,
guaiacol (and derivatives), *+phenol (and
derivatives), syringol (and derivatives), +cat-
echol (and derivatives), *+particulate organic
carbon, oxygenated polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, +PAHs: fluorene, phenanthrene,
+anthracene, methylanthracenes, +fluoran-
thene, *+pyrene, +benzo(a)anthracene, +chry-
sene, +benzofluoranthenes, *+benzo(e)pyrene,
*+benzo(a)pyrene, *perylene, +ideno(1,2,3-
cd)pyrene, *benz(ghi)perylene, *coro-
nene, +dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene,
dibenz(a,h)anthracene, trace elements: Na, Mg,
Al, Si, S, Cl, K, Ca, Ti, V, +Cr, +Mn, Fe, +Ni,
Cu, Zn, Br, +Pb; particulate elemental carbon,
normal alkanes (C24-C30), cyclic di-and triter-
penoids, dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid,
lupenone, friedelin, +chlorinated dioxins

* Indicates a chemical also found in cigarette smoke
+Indicates a chemical that is classified as toxic by U.S. Law

Breathing in wood smoke is comparable to inhaling second-hand cigarette smoke.

Many of the pollutants are similar to those produced by burning tobacco. The EPA
estimates that wood smoke is 12 times more carcinogenic than equal amounts of tobacco
smoke and attacks our body cells up to 40 times longer than tobacco smoke.

A single fireplace operating for an hour and burning 10 pounds of wood during that time
will generate 4,300 times more carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons than 30 ciga-
rettes.

[invictus]

36. +1,000,000,000,000

[mitchum]

43. "Have you sat in a smoker's car?" Well...well...well...

you do know that cars put out lots of toxic and noxious fumes, don't you?
I'm sure you do, but that knowledge doesn't allow you to act all sanctimonious, does it?
Start walking everywhere or continue being a hypocrite.

[TroglodyteScholar]

8. Shoulda gotten a computer that you don't NEED a warrantee for...

And maybe even one that you could fix yourself.

Woops, forgot we're talking about Apple.

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. Oh, SNAP nt

[we can do it]

19. Yeah Like One That Doesn't Work From the Get-Go or Is Obsolete In 2 Weeks

[TroglodyteScholar]

23. You're kidding right?

Even if my 2003 PC that still works flawlessly HAD been obsolete after two weeks, at least the cause of obsolescence wouldn't have been that it was available in a new color.

[Viking12]

34. I've got you beat. I'm typing this on a 1998 Gateway running on Windows '95.

My kids are using my laptop to play games so I'm stuck on the old, but reliable, desktop to check my e-mail and forums.

[we can do it]

35. Lucky You!

[PatGund]

30. *chuckle*

I do my own repairs on Apple equipment. Got so good at them I ended up being Apple certified. It's not hard to do your own repairs on a Macintosh if you know what you're doing.

Hell, some models are VERY easy to repair and upgrade.

[krabigirl]

11. wow..I don't smoke but this is ridiculous.

Then again, I'm not hugely into apple. I prefer my android phone and my laptop isn't apple. Almost got one but couldn't afford it.

[TCJ70]

12. I could understand voiding if smoking caused a problem with the computer...

...but to not service a computer simply because the owner smokes? Nah.

[anigbrowl]

24. well, it does actually

not a very severe one, but tar buildup on electrical contacts increases dust and raises heat. If you're in the market for music studio electronic gear, given the fact that some musicians are heavy smokers, it significantly lowers the resale value because people don't want to deal with the years of accumulated gunk if they need to do maintenance.

[MattBaggins]

42. More damage than just those

That tar like build up is creating organic acids when heated up.

[lildreamer316]

13. This is IDIOTIC. DO they KNOW how many DJs USE MACs????

SERIOUSLY.

Almost ALL of the major techno djs in the WORLD use mac books.
You know, DJs??
That play in NIGHTCLUBS???
Where people SMOKE!

Husband had told me he was switching to mac book for his dj laptop at our next purchase.
Well, guess that's out! Mac, you just lost another potential customer!
We NEED the warranty since ..guess what??
HE'S A DJ IN A NIGHTCLUB.
We've had to use it once apiece on each of his previous laptops...it's going to happen.

Oh, this is dumb, dumb dumb.

[NYCGirl]

17. In NYC, you can't smoke in nightclubs. NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. If this is true, I suspect there is more to the story

they are NUTS.

[bbernardini]

20. So I'm a snob, huh?

Welcome to Ignoreland.

[Wildewolfe]

21. I am a smoker and a computer user

and a heavy online gamer... I run 6 PCs for one of the online games.... smoking most definitely affects the machines. It burns up the CPU fans and the power supplies. I actually have to keep them stocked so I can replace them when one goes out.

It burns the power supplies by taking out the fans in them.

I was quit for a bit over a year. During that year I lost 1 power supply. Average when I'm smoking 1 to 2 every 3 months out of 6 machines.

I usually come down on the side of smokers rights, but I will tell you for a fact that smoking around PCs and presumably Macs will cause the cooling systems to fail sooner and them to overheat and fail. Now.. all you gotta do in general is replace the fan or the power supply and you are in business and the rest of that is all BS... The machine is already filled with dust, mold, spores and whatever else it managed to suck in and the person working on it should already be wearing a mask when they blow the silly thing out.

So they're right that it's damaging to the machine, and silly about the rest... they should already be taking precautions that more than cover any problems there. The part of cig smoke that damages PCs is micro particles in the ball bearing assemblies of the fans and you aren't going to blow that out anyway.

[wyldwolf]

26. the voice of reason... with a cool user name, too.

[wyldwolf]

25. ..

.

[Orangepeel]

27. Eh, I don't believe it.

It could be true, but it looks like this is just somebody who claims it happened to them. I'll believe it is actually Apple policy and not some sort of misunderstanding or one technician's idiosyncrasy when it gets some confirmation.

:shrug:

[PatGund]

31. Like I said....

When this story came out, I checked Apple GSX and Service Source (websites for parts and service manuals) to see if there was a chance in policy.

There isn't. This is not an Apple Policy, and I suspect it's more a tech who didn't want to repair it.

Once I cracked open a Powerbook G4 that had "stopped working". I found sand and dirt though the case, foxtails in the fans, and layers of caked grime in the keyboard and optical drive. This fell into the "user abuse" department and wasn't covered by warranty. I would need to see the MacBook or pictures of it, but I've seen some really sickening machines come out of smokers houses as well.

[katandmoon]

28. I am shocked the most superior, sophisticated computer users in the universe do anything as

lowbrow and ignorant as SMOKE.

[PatGund]

29. Try again....

I checked Apple GSX and current service policy, (Apple Certified Technician) and there's nothing about denial of coverage to smokers.

That being said, many waranties, Apple included, do exclude damage caused by user. I can see where the tech judged the laptop as damaged by user rather than due to manufacturing defect.

[Sultana]

32. Whatever, I still love Apple

:*

[Elwood P Dowd]

37. I use to smoke back in the days when I was using a couple of early Apple iMacs.

It was 1999, and I had one in my little office at home. I purchased a newer slot-loader iMac in 2000 because I needed it for a part-time business. Also ordered some extra RAM and a PRAM battery for the 1999 model at the same time. The older model had to be taken apart to replace the RAM and battery back in those days (a royal pain - newer model no problem). It was shocking the amount of brown gunk inside that thing. Took some time and effort to clean up the mess, but now that old iMac and it's somewhat better cared for buddy still work. After that experience, I installed a small fan in the window for when I smoked and made sure all the smoke was going out of the office. No longer smoke but when you compare the insides of those two computers, the difference is noticeable even after cleaning the one exposed to the smoke. That little window exhaust fan also reduced the amount of dust that normally collected on keyboards, speakers, radios, printers, and other components, so I still run it except in cold weather.

[Greyskye]

38. Smoke particles can cause hard drive crashes

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this was the real reason behind the policy. The link in the OP is more of an Op Ed then an actual news article.

[MattBaggins]

39. I used to smoke and I used to work in a computer repair shop

I don't fault apple for this.

Smoking near your computers does destroy them faster. While normal dust collections can be blown out or cleaned up with soft non static wipes or brushes; smoke leaves a tar like nasty disgusting coating that can not be removed without a solvent that has to be used carefully to avoid damaging the boards. The heat hitting all that smokey crap creates organic acids that further the damage.

Don't smoke near your comp and expect it to last very long.

[mitchum]

41. Who knew that Roderick Usher was now a computer tech?

[TicketyBoo]

45. What cigarette smoke does to a computer

is pretty ugly.

http://www.squidoo.com/cigarette-smoke-computer-damage

Maybe cigarettes should carry a new warning on them: "Cigarette smoking may be hazardous to your computer's health."

[NYC Liberal]

46. Um, why should that be covered under a warranty?

It's a warranty, not insurance. If you smoke and that causes damage to the machine NO computer company will cover that!

Here's a snippet from Dell's warranty:

Quote

Damage due to shipping the products to you is covered under this limited warranty. Otherwise, this limited warranty does not cover damage due to external causes, including accident, abuse, misuse, problems with electrical power, servicing not authorized by Dell, usage not in accordance with product instructions, failure to perform required preventive maintenance, and problems caused by use of parts and components not supplied by Dell.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/policy_warranties_popup?c=us&l=en&cs=19#1year

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Also, as for: Apparently Nicotine is on OSHA’s list of hazardous and toxic substances (although I couldn’t find it) :

Nicotine is listed on the CDC's website (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0446.html - linked to via http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_256500.html) in the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards.

Quote

Personal Protection & Sanitation (See protection codes)
Skin: Prevent skin contact
Eyes: Prevent eye contact
Wash skin: When contaminated
Remove: When wet or contaminated
Change: No recommendation
Provide: Eyewash, Quick drench