A personal take on Religion, Politics, Personal Philosophy.. whatever guides you

[Peacetrain]

And that includes Atheism

Bit of History.. When John Kennedy went to West Virginia and beyond.. he had to take a stand that his religion would not hinder his politics. For all the south bashers.. West Virginia was what put Kennedy in the White House.

Now we have the Catholic Church rearing its head, along with all the Four Squares, Southern Baptists etc.. demanding that politicians follow the tenets of the church in governance and not personal behavior or they will be excommunicated or refused communion etc etc.

In other words.. Church first, government second.

As a committed Christian.. My religious beliefs do impact my personal behavior.. "Do unto others as you would want done to you".. It is my defining judgment. It is my path. But that does not mean, you have to take my path.

Religion is the mother of all philosophy. It is a way for us to define ourselves.

But our nation (thankfully so) has been set up to allow everyone to have their belief system, but not to have a nationalized belief system. That is the path of things such as the Taliban.

Religion has been used for political gain from the dawn of time. As I put in another post.. They were throwing people off cliffs to bring in the harvest, as part of a political structure from caveman days onward.

I love my faith, I live it, I will not deny it to be part of any other group. But likewise, it is not to be used to define how other people have to live in order for me to interact with them or be part of their lives.

So dear Bishops, Pastors, Imams, High Priest and Priestesses.. Just stop it!

It is how we live our lives, not what we can do to have power over others.

[StarfarerBill]

1. +1, and thanks.

:)

[panader0]

2. Isn't "Do unto others...." from Confucious?

While I can't claim to be a Christian, I hold his teachings in great regard. What blows my mind is that people who claim to be Christian can support wars, fight in them or even own guns. It seems to me that Christ's main lesson was peace.

[MineralMan]

3. It's common to almost all belief systems.

It's from logical thought. All the sensible stuff in religions comes from that source, rather than from invisible supernatural deities. Where religions have logical behavioral advice in common, they are correct. When they abandon logic for magic, they are incorrect.

[Peacetrain]

5. Exactly magical thinking...

As a Christian there is nothing magical about Jesus and his belief system.. But it never fails to confound me, people who try and use it for "magic"

By that.. hoping to live some little segment of the philosophy or religion will bring them wealth, etc
(there is a whole branch that devotes itself to thinking they can pray themselves rich, instead of understanding that they have wealth and they are accountable for how they use it

[MineralMan]

6. Nothing magical, eh, in the Jesus story?

No, not at all. Let's see, some virgin got pregnant when a ghost impregnated her. The kid grew up to do things like walk on water, reanimate dead people, etc., then his corpse disappeared from a tomb. Later, his ghost was seen (and even touched) by some folks.

No, no magical stuff there.

And then there was Jesus's dad. All that speaking things into existence, waving his hands to create the universe, etc. Not magic at all. Nope.

Please...

[Peacetrain]

8. That story was added by those who needed the magical

Besides.. much of the testaments are parables.. stories explaining stories.. Mark probably hits it closest to the truth.. by the time you get to John, it is just completely over the top.

Just like there are two creation stories in Genesis, there are more than one birth story in the New Testament..

[Echo In Light]

9. I lean toward Gnosticism, myself

[MineralMan]

10. No deities are needed to come up with the idea

that treating others the way you would like to be treated is a good idea.

It's pretty basic stuff. That religions take credit for such a simple idea is just silliness.

[Peacetrain]

14. My first exposure to the Great Commandement was through my Christian faith

it is as simple as that. If you go down a few posts you will see where I put other sources of the Great Commandment, in other faiths and philosophies that pre date Christianity..

I embrace my Christianity through it, and others embrace through their belief system.

[MineralMan]

15. And atheists like myself recognize that it's just simple logic.

The fact that it is expressed in religious documents is irrelevant.

[PassingFair]

29. You don't help your argument with quotes like this:

"Religion is the mother of all philosophy."

When common sense and the ability to
survive amongst others gives rise to
the same sentiment.

No religion is necessary.

[Peacetrain]

12. Let me add to this before I go to work.. If a person wants to believe in a manger

(I do not), it is their perfect right to believe that. Just as long as they do not insist that I believe it, it is what it is. My whole op is not denigration the individuals belief system.. but the hierarchy that is trying to insist that the individual belief system has to be part of the government.

Likewise, I would not do well with someone who insists my belief system has to be suspended in order to be an elected official or to talk with others or be part of any group.

[roguevalley]

25. Paul's hoo-doo and stuff added 100 years after the death. it isn't

Jesus they are constructing, its the Christ creature of Paul. There is a HUGE difference. Why do you think Christians who understand that get so DAMNED PISSED when people act like Jesus and the Messianic movement brought this up. They didn't. Paul did.

[phasma ex machina]

11. The predominantly African-American traditional folk magic known as Hoodoo

understands Moses as conjurerer and the bible as talisman.

[Peacetrain]

4. Actually do unto others is the one true voice of God.. it is in practically all religions

philosophy.. just a few for example

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All things that you would want done for you, Do for others.. Matt. 7:12
Christianity

What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman...Talmud: Shabbat 31a
Judaism

Hurt not others in ways that you would not find hurtful Udana-Varga 5,18
Buddhism

This is sum of duty, Do naught unto others, which would cause you pain if done to you.. Mahaebharata 5,1517
Brahmanism

Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you
Analects 15,23
Confucianism

Regard your neighbors gains as your own gains and your neighbors loss as your own T'ai Shang Kan Yingp P'ien
Taoism

That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself
Dadistan-I-Dinik 94,5
Zoroastrianism

No one os your is a believer until he desires for his brother which he desires for himself. Sumnah
Islam

[phasma ex machina]

13. Thanks for indexing the Golden Rule. nt

[Echo In Light]

17. "They with the gold make the rules."

[phasma ex machina]

7. Mt 10:34 "Do not think that I came in peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

Earlier Jesus says

Mt 10:13 "If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you."

Scripture aside, Martin Sheen's pro-life, anti-war stance seems consistent.

[MineralMan]

16. Jesus "said" a lot of things, depending on who wrote them down.

Some of the things he "said" weren't written down for over 300 years after he supposedly said them.

And then, there were the additions and edits.

It's all so interesting when you really dig into it.

[phasma ex machina]

19. It is generally believed that John wrote his Gospel sometime in the 90s.

Time spans for some of our greatest ancient writings.

Caesar and his Gaelic Wars The earliest manuscript is 1,000 years after Caesar lived.

Demosthenes, the great orator of Greece: The earliest manuscript is 1,200 years after he wrote.

Plato, the great philosopher: 1,300 years.

Herodotus: also 1,300 years.

The Greek dramatists: 1,400 years.

Cattalos, the Roman writer: 1,600 years.

Homer and his classic The Odyssey: 2,200 years.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes, but I'm not sure what your point might be.

All of those documents experienced changes over time, no doubt. In the case of the New Testament, some of the changes are obvious and were made much later. Add to that the many translations of the NT, and I doubt very much if they resemble the earliest stories of the Gospels and other aspects of Jesus's teachings.

That documents change is well-known. In this case, the final canon of the scriptures was done in Rome, far from Jesus's Jewish home. The canon better represents the interests of Rome than it does of Israel. The entire Christian religion, as we know it today in the western world, is European, not Semitic.

Many political issues were involved in the formation of the canon. What was left out is as interesting as what was left in.

[phasma ex machina]

22. You lost me. Thousands of Greek manuscripts of the New Testament exist. nt

[roguevalley]

26. the books were named for the apostles but no one credits them

with writing them. they also don't agree on content. they are all much post-Jesus and when you consider the average lifespan in those days was about eighteen, then 90 years or whatever after Jesus is about three lifetimes removed. I don't believe anything Paul taught.

[phasma ex machina]

27. I applaud your honesty in simply admitting your own disbelief.

BTW. Love the cute dog in your sig.

[roguevalley]

32. that is my Tippy angel. :) As for my beliefs, they have evolved over

the years. I don't believe in the dogma of religions but I believe in the spirit of the universe and our connection to it. Some people call that God. That is fine with me. :)

[Ron Green]

18. We DO have a nationalized belief system.

It's material consumption and shopping. We've made corporate CEOs into the priest class, and the GDP and Dow numbers are holy writ. The beauty of this religion is that everyone has to participate to some degree in order to survive, and there's no excommunication. And every TV channel is welcome, and usually required, to spread the Word.

[spoony]

21. Very good post!

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[arcadian]

23. Bull fucking shit

"Religion is the mother of all philosophy"

Handing over your thought precesses to the church has nothing to do with philosophy.

[Peacetrain]

24. I defy you to prove that wrong.. absolutely defy you...

[Unvanguard]

30. Read some contemporary academic philosophy, and then come back to us. n/t

[Beer Snob-50]

28. i agree that ones religion impacts ones personal behavior

but do you think that if your belief system impacts how you would vote for something or impact how you would craft a bill. i think that is what chris matthews was tryilng to get out of the bishop yesterday.

[LWolf]

31. Universal truth:

"It is how we live our lives, not what we can do to have power over others."