The other face of the Healthcare coin : Obscene Doctor compensation

[UndertheOcean]

Check this out : http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Professors , Engineers , Teachers , Nurses and myriad other professionals can live on much lesser wages , why are Doctors paid like royalty ?

[dflprincess]

1. At least the doctors are providing a service

their salaries are chump change when you compare them to what the CEOs of Cigna or United Health Group make.

[TwilightGardener]

2. High level of education, high degree of responsibility, knowledge, and skill.

I'm sitting here with a recently-rearranged abdomen, still recovering--I used to be a nurse, but I sure as hell can't do what my surgeon did. I completely accept that they should have higher wages than other professionals.

[Warpy]

8. Also, a shorter professional life

because of the additional 4 years of schooling followed by internship, residency, and advanced training if they're going into surgery.

Most docs getting out of school are a quarter of a million bucks in debt, a debt they really can't start paying down for 10 years after they're out of school if they're surgeons.

Medical education could easily be streamlined to 6 years instead of 8, but that really wouldn't cut down the time surgeons spend learning how to do their craft.

Microsurgery and laparoscopic surgery have completely changed things. The meatball surgery of even 30 years ago now seems unbelievably primitive. It takes a very long time to develop the skill to cope.

There are easier ways to make a lot of money fast. The hours are certainly better than those the average doc works, too.

[w8liftinglady]

22. I agree,having been on both sides.

As a nurse,I see the incredible pressure placed on doctors-some literally holding a life in their hands.As a patient,three doctors have literally saved my life.I have seen surgeons who spend all night operating,and then the next day rounding on all those patients(we have a very busy rural ER).I don't work with any docs(well,maybe one exception),who seem to be in it "for the money".They all seem to genuinely care,and want to do their best for their patients.

[MrModerate]

3. Those earnings didn't look insane to me, particularly when compared to compensation . . .

In the financial services industry where even very junior people are earning in the mid-six figures and delivering much less value.

Most of the people in those other professions (I think) neither want to be nor are suited (educationally or vocationally) to be doctors, much less the highly specialized practitioners included on the linked list.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Because the AMA is a very powerful organization

[elocs]

6. Trouble is, less than 1/3 of doctors belong to the AMA.

It's not what it once was.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. No it isn't. But doctors are still paid well, which is a tribute to its power

[elocs]

18. There is nothing wrong with that. Comparatively speaking many union members are paid well

in comparison to their equally educated workers in the same area. That is also a tribute to their power and its doubtful that many of their members have gone to school for 7 years or more after high school and graduate with $100,000+ student loans. Until there are federally mandated wage controls, we are all worth whatever money we can get for our work and I don't begrudge doctors for being well paid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Well this teacher disagrees

:)

[elocs]

23. I can guarantee you that there are people who believe you do not deserve to be paid as much

as you get. I believe that teachers should be paid much more than they make now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Well as long as this campaign slamming teachers and public schools goes on

we won't get paid what we deserve. Just today there's a story posted here about a school secretary taping a 6 year old's mouth. Don't get me wrong, I find that deplorable. I just am frustrated that we have so few bad doctor stories posted while the mean teacher threads are ongoing. Sigh.

[elocs]

5. A lot of us could live on lesser wages, but why should we?

I don't care if it is the Teamster down the street or a professional athlete, as long as a gun isn't put to someone's hear everybody deserves what they get. In the city where I live a lot of people are struggling to get by on $10 an hour and I daresay they would think there are people here making $20 or more an hour who do not deserve it and could live on much lesser wages. Who gets to decide?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Are you factoring in their expenses?

[jtrockville]

9. I don't begrudge the docs.

[AllentownJake]

11. Debt

They go into a significant amount of additional debt to pay for their degree unless they take a stint in the milatary or are of a wealthy family to begin with.

Subsidize the education you can reduce the fees.

[knitter4democracy]

12. Have you taken their debt into account, as well as overhead?

Don't get me wrong, they make a lot of money. I got my ex through med school, residency, and the first years of being an attending, so I know first-hand how much money a primary care doc can make. Still, you need to take into account the overhead.

Med school and college loans of over $200K aren't unusual at all. That's a huge payment every month, believe you me. Profs, engineers, teachers, and nurses rarely hit that level in school debt. Heck, for all but profs, the others can start working after they get their bachelors, and MDs cannot--they've got another seven+ years of training first before they get that.

Residents make what teachers make, basically, and residency's anywhere from 3-5 years with fellowship lasting who knows how long (highly dependent on the program). If you don't start paying on your loans then and defer them (which everyone pretty much does), it kicks in hard later.

Then you have the overhead of running your own practice. Check out some figures at http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/ (the only good journal on the economics of medicine that I've seen). Primary care doctors really don't make as much as people seem to think once you take overhead and school loans into account.

Now, specialists, yes, they make tons of money. That said, they're the go-to guys and can charge that. With my kidney tumor, four pathologists were involved, the last one being a super-specialized one. Trust me, I don't begrudge them their salary, as they worked hard on my case and did their best to figure out if it was cancer or not (they decided not after a month's work).

[IDFbunny]

13. I have no issue with the MDs comp

If anybody deserves their pay it is the highly talented, educated healers.

Go after the CEOs and bankers then you'd have my support. Specifically Boeing CEO and chairman McNerney for wrecking America's biggest exporter. When you are CEO AND chairman of the board you get to decide your own compensation package with only a couple dozen people in cahoots. Pinch pennies on the working people and break the unions to gain even more bonuses. I really do think I could do a better job of wrecking a corporation for a tenth of what he makes.

[Merlot]

14. Even if doctors were paid less it wouldn't help people who were uninsured

There's nothing wrong with being paid good money for highly developed and valued skills. Not everyone can become a doctor.

CEO's and bankers, on the other hand...

[UndertheOcean]

15. Well , they might bark back : "Not everyone can become a CEO or a banker" n/t

[Quantess]

16. Insurance is the middleman.

Most Insurance people just have a high school degree. Nothing wrong with only having HS degree, but...why go for a college degree that costs a lot of money and time when you could be working...for an insurance company.

Teachers these days are expected to have a Masters degree. At least teachers deliver a service to humankind.

[Sinti]

17. They serve to preserve life - how much is life worth?

The question should be why aren't teachers (especially teachers), nurses, engineers, professors and such getting paid a heck of a lot more? I wonder how incentivized a teacher would be if they earned $200,000+ and could afford really nice things. The major difference between private and public schools was the pay, according to the teachers that taught there, when I was a kid at least - $75,000 vs $25,000. Tell me, who cares more about doing their job right?

[hfojvt]

19. so far it seems that we sure do love our rich people

So they make $400,000 a year, the response is - so what? Nobody seems to understand that the 'so what' is that all of us ordinary yokels are supporting those $400,000 salaries and those salaries are a big part of why a $10 an hour worker has to pay so much for medical care/medical insurance.

What are the odds that somebody will assail me for thinking that $400,000 a year is rich?

[slipslidingaway]

21. The "rich people" that help save lives as opposed to those who create...

complex financial products.

:silly:

[Tracer]

24. In the past 4 years, I've seen dozens of doctors...

... and every single one of them has treated me with attention, kindness and respect.

Three of them have actually saved my life (and more than once)!

I don't care how much money they earn. There's no putting a price on skill, talent, and dedication.