Regarding Canadian Nurses and their universal healthcare

[Horse with no Name]

One of the biggest problems facing Americans in the healthcare crisis is the lack of nurses.
One of my longest-held notions was that the Canadians came here to work because the hospitals were so bad there.
However, it finally clicked when I was talking to one of my Canadian colleagues.
They come here because there are no jobs there. This is true. However, it is because the jobs THERE are desirable to nurses.
They don't burn out like they do here. Just about every Canadian nurse I have ever known always wanted to be able to return home to work. It took me a long time to realize that it wasn't just because it was home, but because the working conditions were better.

[Oregone]

1. There are plenty of jobs there

But they get paid an assload more in the states. This is one of Canada's hugest health care problems. People can obtain government money to train in the medical field, but they have more lucrative employment opportunities south of the border. Its very unfortunately, because they are doing so much correct but have a low doctor/nurse to population ratio.

[Horse with no Name]

2. Not sure I agree

This shows the average salary of RN's in Canada make $32/hour.
http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html
This shows the average salary of RN's in Texas as about $34/hour. In our town, it is under $30/hour.
http://www.cbsalary.com/salary_chart.aspx?specialty=Registered+Nurse&cty=Texas%20City&sid=TX&kw=Registered+Nurse&jn=jn050&edu=&tid=4076

I will tell you one thing. If things continue on the way they are going, I'd give up a few bucks an hour to go to Canada.

[Oregone]

11. Thats just what Ive ben told

Maybe it applies more to doctors than nurses though. There seems to be plenty of nurse training and opportunities in Canada though (at least where I live)

[laughingliberal]

14. A $2/hr decrease in salary to not have to worry about health care costs?

I'd make that deal

[laughingliberal]

3. I know their working conditions could not be worse

I worked as an RN here for 25 years. When I graduated from nursing school, we were in the worst shortage in history at that time. The hospitals and institutions raised salaries, instituted flexible scheduling, and generally improved our lot. Nurses came back into the field, students went to nursing school, and the shortage began to abate. At the end of the 80's the huge push for for-profit health care began in earnest. By 1995 patient ratios doubled at the hospital where I worked, salaries started to stagnate, and benefits were cut. Schedules became inflexible. Hospital corporations hired 'management consultants,' who stood on the floors with their clipboards and timed us as we went in to insert catheters, start IV's, hang transfusions, etc...The result of most of their studies was that nurses were spending 20% of their time non-productive. I remember my thought at this being perhaps this was the time we spent thinking which was part of our job at one time. Once they decided they needed 20% less nurses, they declared the shortage over and started relying on higher patient ratios and forced overtime to fill schedules. Patient care suffered and I truly saw these monstrous organizations as being of the mindset that a few lawsuits were cheaper than more full time nurses. I hate to be so far along in my life with no real way to start over and say becoming a nurse was, in the end, the worst thing I ever did to myself.

[Horse with no Name]

4. And if these megacorps get tort reform

then they can cut staff even more.
Nursing has changed dramatically the 20 years I have been in.
I'm struggling to diversify myself to make some serious changes.

[DCKit]

5. U.S. or Canada? You need to be clear. n/t

[Warpy]

7. It's a meat grinder. I lasted 25 years, too.

Everything you've said is true. Salaries started to improve again in 1999, but that also saw the customer service model enter the rarefied world of the hospital suit. Morale dropped like a rock as nurses, already at the bottom in terms of autonomy and power, were declared hostage to the good will of unreasonable people.

50% of the licensed RNs in this country have left practice due to the appalling working conditions.

[laughingliberal]

15. Correct. They short staff us with the lie that there's a huge shortage

But this shortage was intentionally created by the industry as an excuse to short staff us. I just don't remember thinking, "When I grow up I want to be a nurse so I can increase the shareholder's quarterly dividends." I started out as a business major. I did not find it rewarding and went to nursing school. I should have stayed where I was. Sounds as if you worked for a company like Tenet.

[peabody]

9. I totally agree!

I'm not a RN but I became an LVN after being laid off during the dot com bust. I was lucky enough to get a job at a hospital that still used LVNs as bedside nurses (under the supervision of an RN) on their various units. The pace was crazy! I thought to myself, "maybe there's job security here, but there's no way I can keep up this pace especially when I start getting into my 50's." The stress was incredible. I finally decided that I rather face the insecurities of the tech field than to have my health ruined by the stress of nursing. I bailed out of field last year and now I'm back working behind a computer again. No regrets so far.

[AllyCat]

12. I am assuming you are talking about the U.S. and not Canada??

Canada doesn't have megacorps as far as I know. I have been a nurse for 5 years (second career). I love nursing, but it is getting harder and harder to do my job. When I started, we saw several wage increases in just 3 years. Now we have a new CEO who has been lauded for his ability to bust a union in a NC hospital. Our wages with the last contract negotiation barely moved, our insurance options got worse, and more expensive. Now some bean counter has come in and decided to remodel our birthing center (which needs it...dated, not user-friendly for the staff, but the patients like it). In meetings this week, we were all told how we would be expected to take TWO labor patients at a time. For those of you who do this now, I don't know how you do it. All my time is spent handling one laboring mother. There is no way I can watch heart rate tracings of the fetus while I am busy in another room with another patient. What if something happened? I would be blamed and a horrible outcome would face the family. They want to put a nursing assistant in charge of the nursery so they don't have a pay a nursery nurse. When we objected to how unsafe this would be (nursing assistants rock, but they are not trained to assess patients, especially newborns and preemies), we were told it was all okay...they will be trained in INFANT CPR!!!! WTF????

Post partum, we are going to be expected to take 5 mother baby dyads (that's 10 patients for those who can't do math). Right now, 3 pairs are a typical, workable assignment. 4 pairs are cutting it close, especially if any of them are first time moms.

They are also going to reassign everyone and change FTEs without regard to our bargaining unit contract. I am looking to diversify myself even more than I already have so that I can get out if this ends up being bad. Sounds like it will be.

Of course, this is all about profits!!! The patients are clueless what is happening behind the scenes. This will affect their care.

[Horse with no Name]

13. 2 labors at once?

That's a heck of a lot of responsibility.
Ummm and putting a Nursing Assistant in charge of a newborn nursery--I am not deriding anyone's skill set--but you know as well as I do that a newborn crashing has very little to do with things that CPR can fix. The critical interventions that are necessary are not under the scope of practice for an unlicensed person. When they crash to the point of needing CPR, then you might as well just call the coroner to come do the autopsy.

[Warpy]

6. They also come here for on the job training in specialty units

Canada requires additional paid education to enter those units unless the nurse has experience in them here in the US.

It's just a way to advance up the career ladder in Canada without having to shell out money and take time off from work to do it.

I've worked with a lot of Canadian nurses and not a single one of them wanted to stay in the US.

[Spazito]

8. Well said, you nailed it.

Canadian nurses with employment in the U.S. see it very much as temporary and for the reasons you have iterated.

[Historic NY]

10. lots of openings here in the states..just not enough willing to put up with BS

of the cooperate overlords. Until recently nurses here were forced to work long hours, due to staffing shortages. The longer hours had to seriously impact care, but the overlords were driven by profit over care. My niece a combat trained nurse now works critical care in a trauma center, she makes a ton of money. My x left for the greener pastures of teaching and home care after years in a major medical center. The local paper is full of jobs and the classes here for Aides,LPN,RN's are book solid. The county aged nursing home has trouble keeping staff even with competitave wage offerings. Remember good care begins & ends with the nurse.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-kirsten-gillibrand/new-yorks-nursing-shortag_b_227154.html