So it's possible for 3 people to be held for years in a shed in a California suburb

[Liberal_in_LA]

When that other guy was found to have held his daughter in a dungeon and fathered 7 kids many of probably thought "well, that's Germany"

In our great, powerful, and modern country we now know that it's possible for someone to hold 3 people for years in a shed in a suburban neighborhood. That a teen can be held, raped, give birth, the kids never seeing a doctor, never going to school. And one of the neighbors said something about the pedo couple being good people. WOW.

:cry: :cry:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kidnapped28-2009aug28,0,5684406.story

Authorities said Phillip Garrido, a registered sex offender, and his wife, Nancy, kept Jaycee Lee Dugard in a ramshackle warren of sheds, tents and tarps behind a fence in the backyard of a home in Antioch, northeast of Oakland.

They believe that Garrido, whom acquaintances described as a "religious fanatic," fathered two daughters with Dugard, who is now 29. The girls are 11 and 15.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I hope the victim and her children are able to pick up the pieces of their lives

though it will be hard, I am sure. I wonder if Jaycee was able to teach her daughters to read, or if they are totally unschooled. I'm hoping that Jaycee's mom will be very supportive of her and her granddaughters.

[inna]

28. i doubt that her captors provided her with children's books.

such a sad story. i hope she and the kids are going to be ok, mentally and emotionally....

[tabatha]

2. I really think that they should have examined satellite images

of the guy's home. Hopefully, that will be done next time - to all sex offenders.

[Xenotime]

5. Should be able to look on Google Earth.

[Princess Turandot]

13. Here's the place on G-Maps...

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.008573,-121.771309&spn=0.000916,0.001739&z=20

It's apparently the house with the collection of blue tents et al in the yard.
Edited to Add: According to the Google Earth version, the image is from 2008.

[inna]

23. wow! thanks for the link, it's just mindblowing

that three people were kept like animals, locked in the backyard, for all these years.

one neighbor even called the police a couple of years ago when he noticed that there were children living in the backyard.

well, guess what, the police came but didn't search the house and didn't do A THING. amazing.

[arcadian]

32. From the street it looks like an All-American home.

Unspeakable horrors in the backyard.

[SoCalDem]

70. In OUR neighborhood, the code enforcement people would have been all over them

We had a car BEHIND OUR FENCE, and code enforcement showed up and gave us 10 days to "move it" off our property.. my husband had left the gate ajar, and the code guy drove by and got out of his car, walked up the the fence & eyeballed it.. wrote us a citation and taped it to our front door.. They also will ticket you if your trash cans are not "out of sight" withing 12 hours after pick up..(no putting them out the day before)..

Our neighbors got a citation for NOT TRIMMING their backyard tree.. (not visible from the street)..

They do flyovers here to combat "bad swimming pools" in back yards, and of course they "notice" other things too.. There's a reason we call them the code-nazis:)

[ljm2002]

114. The place they lived...

...was not within city limits. The newspaper says they live in a "unincorporated area of Antioch". I'm sure that is one reason they chose to live there -- less likelihood of codes and the like to interfere with their, er, lifestyle.

[Gormy Cuss]

116. They chose to live there because the house belongs to his mother

and yes, this is in an unincorporated area of Contra Costa county which means it's the sheriff's department, not Antioch city police, who respond and since I live in similar area in the same county I can attest to the looser zoning and code requirements and a pretty laid back attitude by law enforcement for anything short of a witnessed violent crime.

It's a shame that no one called CPS either, but hindsight is 20/20. At least the Cal LEO was alert and started the process of uncovering this horrible situation.

[Xenotime]

3. I bet these people thought they were being progressive.

[redqueen]

11. Which people are you talking about?

:wtf:

[Maine-ah]

14. um, yeah, I'll second that

:wtf:

[gatorboy]

17. Oy. This story is really bringing out the dunderheads...

[kestrel91316]

19. WTF is THAT crack supposed to mean??

[EOTE]

24. What the hell are you talking about?

I'd strongly consider explaining what you meant by that.

[inna]

29. what are you babbling about??

:wtf:

[asdjrocky]

55. That is one weird fucking thing to say.

[Dr Fate]

85. I'll bet many people are wondering whether you are being progressive.

n/t

[fascisthunter]

106. nah... they knew they were being right wing losers

no matter how much they try to deny it.

[livetohike]

4. I can see how this can happen

In the two S. California suburbs that I lived in, everyone had a 6' privacy fence around their backyards. You usually only saw your neighbors if you were getting out of/getting into your car (if it happened to be parked in the driveway and not in the garage). It seemed that people generally kept to themselves.

[DBoon]

18. and now we see the consequence of this isolated individualism

people have been brainwashed into believing is the self-sufficient nuclear family

[livetohike]

21. Sadly, this seems to be the trend

Even in my Mom's neighborhood here in PA, where there are no such things as a privacy fence, people are more isolated than when I grew up in the 50's and 60's.

[RockaFowler]

6. This is such a sad, sad story

I really hope the family can live in some sort of peace. I can't imagine not knowing where your child is for 18 years. My heart is aching for this family.

[ljm2002]

115. Not only not knowing where she is for 18 years...

...but, if you're the stepdad, being suspected of kidnapping and killing her.

He was a suspect when it first happened, and although never charged, people continued to think he may have had something to do with her disappearance. He and his wife are separated now, which this may also have contributed to.

When she called him and told him Jaycee was alive, the reports said they both just cried for a couple of minutes before continuing their conversation.

But as bad as it is for them, they at least have had a more or less normal existence. Getting Jaycee and her daughters back into some semblance of normal life is going to be a long, hard road. Hopefully they will get the loving care they need. Humans can also be amazingly resilient!

[cwydro]

7. This guy should have stayed locked up from his first offense.

Sex crimes are treated like a joke.

[redqueen]

9. I agree. (nt)

[madmusic]

37. Then donate to the conservative Criminal Justice Legal Foundation

No joke and I'm not being sarcastic. The Criminal Justice Legal Foundation is the best organized and powerful tough on crime group in the country. Based in California, it often fights in the SCOTUS too and the cases it fights are not limited to California.

"Guided by an all-volunteer committee of law professors, former appellate justices and attorneys, CJLF's full-time legal staff introduces scholarly "friend of the court" briefs before the appellate and supreme courts in criminal cases where an opportunity exists to win a precedent-setting ruling enhancing public safety and victims rights. CJLF is a contributor to the formulation of state and national criminal justice policy. CJLF also provides the national media with a perspective to publicized advocates of criminals' rights. Finally, through its fellowship, work-study and clinical programs, CJFL provides newly-graduated lawyers and students with training not available at most colleges and universities."

You can Google for more before putting your money where your mouth is.

[cwydro]

105. Thank you for the information.

I will look in to that.

[madmusic]

108. You're welcome nt

[malaise]

8. Here's my question

If he's a registered sex offender, why wasn't his property searched after his first charge and imprisonment.

[kestrel91316]

20. His original crime was in 1971, long before this kidnapping

[kath]

25. But he was a PAROLEE - out on parole 2 or 3 yrs before the kidnapping, IIRC.

Too bad the parole officer didn't pick up on anything...

[Greyhound]

10. This kind of thing is happening right now in America and the rest of the world.

These are rare cases here, but they happen consistently. A friend of mine bought a run down building in downtown LA to open an art gallery and found a torture chamber in the basement (not a BDSM chamber, but real). The best we could piece together was that the previous owners/lessees were keeping their slaves there for their garment business. The police were called, but the previous occupants had left the country so nothing could be done.

There was the couple in NY that were caught when their slave escaped a couple of years ago.

We like to pretend that as long as we don't hear about it, things like this do not exist, especially here.

[villager]

12. a "religious fanatic," eh?

Always lecturing others, then, on the "morality" of their lives....?

[Myrina]

15. I cannot understand why his 'real' wife didn't object ...

... or say something, or 'accidentally' leave the shed door unlocked, or ... or ... or ...

:shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Was she a full participant in the crime, or was she a previous victim,

and just doing as she was told to do?

Sadly, his part in this story is more understandable than hers.

[seabeyond]

38. there are piece of shit women, just like piece of shit me. there are more than enough

women that are incapable of empathy or conscience.

[condoleeza]

71. His wife met him while visiting a relative in prison..n/t

[LisaL]

121. I've read that him and his wife met when he was in prison, and

she was visiting someone else there. So she had to know about his criminal past.

[Recursion]

16. Quoting the neighbor:

Helen Boyer has lived next door to the Garridos for nearly two decades and described the couple as "good neighbors." She said she was surprised to hear that they had been keeping a woman in their backyard.

"They didn't seem like that type," said Boyer, 78.

Words fail me.

[seabeyond]

31. "Words fail me."... why? we want to make these people MONSTERS so we can easily

recognize them.

[Recursion]

39. Sorry, let me be more clear

I was stunned by "They didn't look like that type". Who looks like that type?

[seabeyond]

44. lol lol. oh, ok. see, ya. lol. thanks fior clarification. nt

[ejpoeta]

22. the guy was on probation.... seeing a probation officer regularly....

and neighbors had been suspicious and went to the cops several times. I don't understand how the guy was never found out. i mean, in germany, the guy had them in a basement never seeing the light of day.... this girl and her kids were in the backyard.... i'll bet these kids don't even have birth certificates or a social security card.

[Critters2]

27. Taht's the thing. If a guy is on probation, and neighbors call the police

about some suspicion, the property should have been searched. Something should've been done.

[skygazer]

26. Horrifying story and the "blame the victim" crowd is already active

I lit into my husband last night when his first question was, "Why didn't she ever try to escape?" :grr:

I read an article this morning in which this sick fuck was saying that he has "turned his life around" and that this will emerge as a wonderful story of hope and redemption or some such drivel. :puke:

[Liberal_in_LA]

86. Yep... unfortunately. n/t

[seabeyond]

30. you never know what is going on behind any single door you are passin. nt

[Joe Fields]

34. I'll be honest. I really don't know what to think.

I want to give the girl who was kidnapped the benefit of the doubt. I cannot imagine being placed in her position. Yet, a part of me can't help but wonder why she never escaped to seek help in all of those years. She must have had ample opportunities. And then I think, what right do I have to make any judgment toward that poor woman? I dunno....

[seabeyond]

36. what makes you think she had "ample opportunities". it is reported locked from outside

reported she saw no one. she gave birth there, not in hospital, not with doctors. said sound proof shed.

i have absolutely no evidence to deduce she had ANY opportunity, let alone ample

why not even wait until you have fact or at least supposition before pointing finger at girl?

[Joe Fields]

42. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you are going to get me to believe

that over the course of her lengthy captivity, she did not have ample opportunities to escape. Now, why she didn't is an entirely different argument.

[seabeyond]

47. wow... so not that you have any knowledge, you just want to blame a kid, a victim

regardless

why would i try a different argument when your first is stupid and hopeless

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

56. yada yada yada yada yada, rollin eyes. nt

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[skygazer]

68. The question is not whether she had ample opportunities

If you're familiar with cases such as these, you also know that there are many compelling reasons victims often do not attempt escape. Many of them are laid out in my other response to you. A more clinical analysis is offered here -

http://everydaypsychology.com/2007/01/why-do-kidnap-victims-sometimes-fail-to.html

This is a question women who have stayed with abusive men often field. As a woman who spent 8 years in that situation, I can tell you it is very complex and involves psychological manipulation and confusion that even the victim has a hard time ever reconciling. And the longer the situation lasts, the harder it is to leave it because you feel trapped and can no longer recognize that there is a possibility of something else.

I do understand that the first thing many people wonder is why a person would not try to escape. People who have never been in such a situation see it in very clear, black and white terms - you're held against your will, of course you would try to get away. It's just not that simple and having to explain to people why you didn't only adds to one's sense of inadequacy and victimization. Which is why I do try to explain the psychological complexity of it.

But more important than that is the question - why does it really matter? Seriously. Why does it matter why she didn't try to leave? SHE did not commit a crime - he did. And no matter what she did or didn't do, it does not negate the fact that he kidnapped her as a young child, sexually assaulted and impregnated her, and held her captive.

[Quantess]

104. Thank you. (n/t)

[RaleighNCDUer]

90. What might look like 'ample opportunities' from out here may not look

anything like that from HER point of view.

Imprisoned, degraded, repeatedly raped from the age of 11, her only thought is of survival - and ANY 'opportunity' could be a trick, a trap, an excuse for him to punish her. Sch could be so beaten down by terror that she might have been left alone with a door wide open, and not take the chance that he was just waiting for her outside, to beat and rape her again for her violation of his rules.

This was not an adult who has had a chance to self-realize - she went straight from dependent to victim, and never got the chance to learn how to be strong or defiant, or how to take a chance.

YOU obviously have no knowledge of such matters.

[Matariki]

96. That comment of Joe Fields' has to be one of the most disgusting things I've ever read here.

and he has a lot of nerve calling you a 'fucking joke'. :eyes: ack. i need a shower.

[seabeyond]

101. what is really sad? i have heard worse, especially when about victim, females, but

really, girls

i wont forget the poster that said "once girl hits puberty she is free game".

free game

some girls hit puberty at ten

makes them free game

[Z_I_Peevey]

103. That attitude is the unfortunate result of a society

built on patriarchy and ownership of women. Makes me sick when even progressives can't see it.

Blame the 11-year-old child for "not escaping" before blaming the rapist. Just sickening.

[seabeyond]

107. yup. nt

[sendero]

119. Maybe...

.... or it could just be the one-inch thinking of a functional moron.

[DutchLiberal]

117. It's like when Bill O'Reilly said that boy that was kidnapped and abused enjoyed it.

[Beaverhausen]

59. You are sick to even question why a girl who was kidnapped at 11 years old didn't escape

I seriously have no words for anyone who would for a second question why she didn't get out. You have no idea what she went through, what conditions she lived in, or anything else about her life for the past 18 years.

[redqueen]

61. THANK YOU.

So fucking sad, seeing this shit... every. single. time.

x(

[Beaverhausen]

75. and the thought that there are probably hundreds - thousands?- of others in the same situation

Think about all the missing kids. God, I just can't wrap my head around this story. :cry:

[seabeyond]

79. can't wrap my head around this story... i am having a tough time with it too. nt

[Beaverhausen]

80. I remember watching TV when the crawl came across the screen that Elizabeth Smart had been found

I usually assume missing children are dead, but now with these girls found alive, it seems more possible that many are living with others against their will.

Can't imagine what parents of missing children go through.

[seabeyond]

81. so true. and people speculated on her role in her kidnapped life too

after all, timidly walking with them in public, without asking to be rescued.

though since, saying how thankful she was to be rescued...

boggles the mind, but then i have never been held captive, raped, and all the other stuff that goes with this stuff

[LisaL]

120. Yes, Liz Smart is lucky she was found when she was.

Cause I am pretty sure if she wasn't rescued, years from now she'd still be in in that same situation, not asking for help or trying to escape. Seems that once someone is kidnapped, psychological changes go on, such as Stockholm syndrome or brainwashing.

[seabeyond]

64. ha... he proudly says INFORMATION doesnt matter, lol, but i am the rw.

sad sad sad

[inna]

83. +1. nt

[LanternWaste]

65. Fear of consequence...

Fear of consequence possibly outweighed any "ample opportunities to escape".

Also, see Habitualization of Captivity (Revisiting the Stanford Prison Experiment by Carnahan and McFarland, 2007); Stockholm Syndrome (Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser Psychologist by Dr Joseph Carver, 2005); and the recent Dr. Fiske studies psychology of both the abused and abusers of Abu Ghraib

[Gormy Cuss]

66. Define "ample opportunities."

You've obviously thought this through.

[madmusic]

77. Who was in control while he was in prison?

He was granted parole in 1988, but a violation landed him back in prison from April to August 1993.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_13219590

[Gormy Cuss]

87. Probably his wife and co-defendant. n/t

[inna]

89. clearly the wife. pretty damning evidence, imo. nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

73. Just read the latest at yahoo

and the step-father said the girl felt "guilty of bonding with" the monster. But who could blame her? She was captured when she was 11, for heaven's sake! He was the only way she got the necessities of life--after a while, she had to feel grateful for just being alive and getting whatever she got from him in the form of food and clothing. There's a matter of Stockholm Syndrome going on here.

[inna]

82. jesus christ. she was ELEVEN, for god's sakes, when she was kidnapped.

i CANNOT believe the "blame the victim" crowd.

[tabasco]

111. With your post, you have clearly demonstrated stupidity

and other undesirable traits.

Please go away.

[LisaL]

122. She wasn't locked up all the time.

There were people who saw her, she participated in the guy's business.
So this doesn't look like Fritzle's case, where the woman was actually locked up at all times and never saw anyone. This looks to be more psychological reasons. Her step father says she "bonded" with the guy.
So it's probably more of a case of a Stockholm syndrome.

[Berry Cool]

40. Obviously, more people need to read more about this kind of thing.

Read what happened to Colleen Stan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Colleen_Stan

She, too, was kept for years--for some of them, in a box under a bed--and the neighbors either were not wise to her presence or thought she was in the home under her will. Even the kidnappers' children grew used to having her around.

Yes, it happens here, not just in "Germany" (for the record, that particular man was in Austria, not Germany).

And if you ask why she, a grown woman when she was taken, didn't try to escape for many years despite the opportunities she sometimes had, then consider what you would do if you were told the things she was told about how useless it would be to try to escape...and you were being told them by someone who controlled everything about your life from when you were permitted to move, speak, eat, drink (and what you ate and drank), sleep, and go to the bathroom, to when you were permitted to wear clothes and what those clothes would be.

Imagine it. This man has you trapped. You can't even have a bowel movement and clean the shit off your ass without his permission. He controls your whole life. He tells you that if you try to leave, a secret international network of slave owners will spring into action and hunt you down and return you to him--for punishment of who knows what kind. Maybe death.

Are you going to believe him? Chances are you will.

Now, imagine being only a child when he takes you.

[Joe Fields]

46. I know all that. That's why I said what I did. I have mixed emotions

about this, because I am not her.

[redqueen]

62. No, it's not 'because you are not her'... it's because you're JUDGING her.

You need to ask yourself why you feel the need to do that.

So fucking sick.

[bettyellen]

92. mixed emotions? like what she;s not enough of a good victim for your tastes? un fucking real.

[LanternWaste]

102. Mixed emotions? Confusion mixed with what?

Mixed emotions? Confusion mixed with what?

Serious question here-- what are the emotions of yours which are mixed.

I ask because 'mixed emotions' directly implies one emotion vying with another emotion for supremacy, and that then begs the question-- what emotions of yours about this story are attempting to deny other emotions of yours?

[skygazer]

45. And they're off...

This girl was taken when she was 11 years old. That's a child, dependent on adults for her care and safety. Terrified, no doubt. Raped. Probably in fear for her life. There is a psychological toll this takes on a person and when the time you spend in captivity becomes longer and longer and longer, your mind needs to find ways of coping. You become dependent on your kidnapper. You lose hope that you will every get away or that anyone is looking for you. Or that anyone will want you back, now that you've been changed, violated, maybe even forgotten.

Loneliness and proximity make you start to see your captor as a benefactor, the person who brings you food, who cares for you. And the captor is almost always skilled at psychological manipulation, assuring you that HE cares while your parents have given up, that HE takes care of you while they let you be taken, that HE is your friend while no one else is. And there is usually the real or implied threat that if you tried to leave, dire things would happen and since dire things have already happened, you have no reason to disbelieve that.

Soldiers held for years in captivity have fallen victim to this same type of response. These are adults, trained to withstand capture and yet they very often find themselves sympathizing and becoming attached to their captors. How do you suppose an 11 year old child is supposed to be stronger and more resilient than a hardened soldier?

And I would add that the actions to be scrutinized here are not HERS - they are the actions of the heinous animals who snatched her off the street, held and raped her, and kept her captive for 18 years.

[seabeyond]

48. why did any girl/woman allow man to rape her. surely if she fought hard enough

she could/should have gotten away. she really must have wanted it.

peoples thinking is messed up

i am sittin in wow with this poster

[skygazer]

50. Why did she let him snatch her off the street in the first place?

Clearly the whole thing is her fault. :banghead:

[seabeyond]

51. yup. nt

[redqueen]

60. Why am I not surprised to see this from you?

How very very kind of you to 'want to give the girl who was kidnapped the benefit of the doubt'.

Do you even know how sick what you're saying is?

*sigh*

[Gormy Cuss]

63. It's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Picture being kidnapped at 11, raped, and kept in a soundproof shed with your every move monitored, your very existence threatened every day. First you hope to be rescued but no one comes. Then you find yourself 14 and a mother. Now your fantasy of escaping is complicated by the fact that you have a baby to protect. You may also fear backlash on you for having this rapist's child or for being a teen mother. She may have thought that no one would believe her, or that people would blame her because she didn't defend herself. That sounds far-fetched to most mature adults but remember that it's likely that her mental and emotional development were arrested because of this trauma. Even at 29 her coping skills may be no better than the average tween.

Time goes by and there's no evidence that anyone is even looking for her anymore. At least one other child is born. Now it's even harder to imagine escaping from this life, and in a twisted way he may have treated his daughters better than their mother so she saw it safer to stay than to try to escape.

As for ample opportunities, doubtful. Remember that the main living space in that backyard was a soundproofed shed with a door that only opened from the outside.

I could go on...

[seabeyond]

67. "people would blame her because she didn't defend herself." not too much of a stretch

this very poster you are trying to reason with (assuming he is adult) did exactly that. blamed her.....

[Matariki]

93. You want to "give her the benefit of the doubt"????

What kind of asshole are you? The kind of asshole that likes to piss people off on internet forums or the kind of asshole that would blame an 11 year old girl of 'asking for it'?

sheesh. that's ugly.

[SidneyCarton]

94. Consider this...

The poor girl has been abducted, abused and not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. She likely came to believe the trash her abductors tell her after a while, and began to see herself as less than a person (it's a coping mechanism, a way to survive) By doing this the abductors created walls in her mind far harder to penetrate than any locked door, she had been abused into believing that she deserved to be treated the way she was treated, so she stayed. Doesn't work with everyone, some people have stronger wills, but we would be surprised how many people would end up like this poor girl if placed in her shoes.

In some terrible circumstances, the only way to stay sane is to go mad.

[WI_DEM]

109. victims often identify with there captors after a period of time. It wasn't her fault. It's not

the fault of the kids that she had with that monster.

[DutchLiberal]

35. It would be weird to think "well, that's Germany" when it happened in Austria...

But hey, they all speak German and they're both in Europe, so I guess it doesn't make much of a difference, right?

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. Oops! Wrong country.

[DutchLiberal]

41. "In our great, powerful, and modern country"? WTF are you talking about?

Crimes never happened it the US before? Rape never happened in the US before? Kidnapping never happened in the US before? Child abuse never happened in the US before? This is the first time it ever happened?

And what makes it so unbelievable that it happened in a "great, powerful modern country"? You thought modern and powerful countries didn't have sickos among their citizens? That inhabitants of powerful, modern countries were therefore, magically, better people than those in less modern countries?

I guess Austria ("Germany") isn't a modern country, according to you. It's not very powerful, but I'm sure the regular people think their country is great. But according to you, it's more likely that such a heinous crime happened in their country, because they are not as powerful and great as the US?

I can't believe nobody has pointed out the vast amount of bullshit that's in your OP. Wow, what a shock, there are perverts living in your country! Who would have thought? :eyes:

[ieoeja]

69. I also thought that part was really weird.

I am fairly certain my fellow Americans do not think of Austria as some underdeveloped, third world country.

[Taverner]

43. "Oh religion isn't at fault at all!"

Yeah right!

Why is it every time we come accross someone who thinks he's peter pan we label him crazy

yet if someone believes in giant whales that swallow people and virgin births, we consider that honorable? So much as not to suspect them?

If you can believe in a virgin birth, what's stopping you from believing that you are in fact God?

[upi402]

53. True, thinking that talking snakes and woman from a rib is acceptable is crazy too

Yet we make so much allowance for this type of fanaticism that they dominate real wold government.

It's all too often the religious 'better-than-thou' types that pull this sick crap.

[Joanne98]

49. Yes. CA is a penal colony with a nice coastline. Everybody minds their own business now.

[stray cat]

52. Clearly you don't live in a police state here and people are free to live and let live

and get away with these types of crimes.

[mudplanet]

57. "good people" = born again,. That's all it takes.

You can apparently be bedbug crazy, mean, wicked, or, if you go by The Family's criteria, you can be a mass murderer, but as long as you're "born again" you're OK by me.

[condoleeza]

72. The number of apologists on this thread is just astounding and I only can wonder how sick this world

is if we have people trying to "understand" any possible motivations that Phillip Garrido might have had. Poor kid, had a bad LSD trip, got in trouble with drug dealers. Kidnapped and raped a woman rather violently but he comes home to CA and finds refuge w/o anyone apparently giving a shit what he was up to. We should give a rats ass about what happens to this scumbag and how he became a scumbag and what would happen to him if he were ever in the "general population" in a prison?

My mother gave birth to an uncle’s child at 14, watched her raised by an Aunt who was abusive, thought it was a secret, but it never was. She had 9 more children and didn’t “raise” any of us. She was incapable of escaping her childhood, so she escaped to religion & her last words were of her first child. The family legacy continued & all the therapy in the world couldn’t save my sister & brother from taking their own lives, an unbelievable waste of two creative & loving people. This is a highly triggering story for me to watch unravel & must be so for anyone who has this history.

Jaycee will NEVER be “normal”, nor will the children & I’ve no doubt the back yard is a burial ground. There is a “missing” pair of 4 year olds. I’ve often asked this question of people with a history similar to mine: If there was a drug to erase memories and you could start from scratch – would you take it? I would, in a heartbeat. It never goes away. It is hard to believe that humans could do this, hard to want to live if this is who we are.

[redqueen]

76. I wouldn't.

Because it's only by dealing with those memories that we have even a chance at becoming whole again.

I'm so sorry... :hug:

[condoleeza]

88. I'm the only one in the family who HAS dealt with the memories, who went back to my home town and

talked with cousins about the family history. This after going through therapy after my first sibling killed herself and in an effort to understand my mother. Came home inspired to deal with it all, which ended up with me having to sever most ties as I am now the bad one here for talking. Therapy is why I am alive, it doesn't erase times like this that trigger you and make you 5 again.

I have used this legacy and have become an advocate for others like myself, who will "never be whole again". You can only do the best you can to try to recover and deal with the loss, the reality is that it never goes away and it will never go away for Jaycee and her children.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[redqueen]

95. Good luck...

you're an inspirational person. Thank you for that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

100. Wow

you are a very strong person, and have done the best thing you can from the experience--an advocate for others.

[RaleighNCDUer]

97. We DO need to try to understand how he became a scumbag -

because that's the only way we can learn how to prevent OTHERS from taking this same road.

[Liberal_in_LA]

118. Yes, this case will spur others to speak out when they see folks in a shaky situation.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

99. And, as you said, the event passes down through generations

effecting not only victim but other family members. I hope you have been able to get some help to ease the pain, which I know will never go away.

[condoleeza]

110. At least 3 generations and possibly 4, as my siblings have grandchildren who will never know them

RaleighNCDUer - Law enforcement on this case says that everyone was "doing the best they could". We have apparently got endless billions to spend waging war for capitalist interests in this country but we can't monitor the KNOWN criminals. Fine - let's try to understand how he became a scumbag - and then what? This guy had a horrible history of being inhuman, guess the family blames LSD, frankly I don't care how he became what he did. The fact is that he CHOSE to do what he did. Members of my family CHOSE to do what they did, others DID NOT become offenders and frankly at this point in my life I really don't care why they CHOSE what they did, they DID harm and they should have been stopped and frankly I don't care about why, all I care about is stopping the insanity. A human either has the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions or they don't and if they don't then they shouldn't be allowed to exist and I sure as hell don't want to pay for their incarceration or attempted rehab.

Thank you for your thoughts ayeshahaqqiqa, the pain I feel is nothing compared to the pain of the 4 children left behind by my siblings who couldn't see a reason to live.

[JNelson6563]

112. Hugs and encouragement.

:hug:

[skygazer]

113. I would take that drug and understand why you would too

And my history is nowhere near as horrendous as what you describe here. But you're right - it never goes away and it sneaks up behind you and explodes back into your life at unexpected moments. And you get very, very tired of carrying it around. :hug:

[condoleeza]

74. Interview you can listen to w/Garrido, he's "misunderstood" and can't talk because he doesn''t have

an attorney - apparently the FBI has a copy of "documents" that explain it all and it will be a heartwarming story.

http://www.kcra.com/news/20591281/detail.html

He hopes that the SF FBI Bureau will explain it all. He's completely turned his life around, wait til you hear the story about how he completely turned his life around, you will be astounded.

He took Jaycee, humans can't understand why, but they will when they understand how he turned his life around. Yeah, can't wait to hear how he explains this in writing. Didn't have the finances to have medical help for the "family".

Just listen.

[redqueen]

78. No thanks.

He should rot in prison. I wouldn't believe a word the man says.

[condoleeza]

91. Like a moth to the flame I go n/t

[SidneyCarton]

98. Oh Mr. Garrido, believe me I understand.

You are a sick disgusting vile waste of flesh. You are a symptom of the disease that is eating at the soul of our society, a society that is selfish, apathetic and self-absorbed to the point of ignoring the atrocities that occur right next door. You are a cancer Mr. Garrido, a piece of filth that defies description, much less empathy.

Hell sir, is too good for you. Satan himself will feel affronted to defile his kingdom with the likes of you, and considering his other tenants, that says a lot.

Spare me your pleadings for understanding sir, I know you all too well, I see in your ravings the monster that we all have within us but most of us learn to chain and bind, that you could not do so is a tragedy, particularly for Jaycee. That you seek to justify it is despicable, inexcusable and vile. May you come to know the depth of the true nature of the atrocity you have committed, and may you live forever stricken with the monumental horror of your actions.