Why do Repugs have more power than Democrats? or in simpler terms - WTF - is wrong with us?

[samsingh]

Recall

- The repugs stole the election in 2000 and probably in 2004. Even then, they had the slimmest of margins. Control of Congress was done to a few seats in the Senate and a small number in the House. Yet they were able to get their way in almost everything. They started several wars, changed the direction of the media, helped their friends make billions (Haliburton, Blackwater).

Now

- we have a strong majority in the Senate - 51 is the number - not 60
- we have a strong majority in the House
- we have the Presidency with high approval ratings and a President who's fantastic and highly intelligent
- we have a lot of the governerships

And Yet

- we're running scarred from the right wing and even our our turncoats who can't see how awful things were and will be under this generation's repugs.

what the fuck is wrong with us????

[rrneck]

1. Both parties are funded by the same corporate crooks. nt

[samsingh]

2. but why do the repugs get their agenda passed with little popular support ?

[Echo In Light]

4. B/c in a phony democracy, big $ always gets its way OVER the people's needs

[Orsino]

9. Because their agenda meshes more thoroughly with that of the said corporate crooks. n/t

[rrneck]

10. The balance of the popular support

they have enjoyed since Reagan was manufactured with corporate money. After Bush screwed the pooch, money has been pouring into Democratic coffers. The rich aren't stupid. They know where to sluice the dough to get their agenda through.

[imdjh]

14. PR. Like it or not, the GOP is the party that is good for business and the country.

It doesn't matter if it's true, which of course it isn't, that's what PR is all about- telling lies. The GOP has very successfully built its image as the party of small businessmen, good religious people, the hard working and industrious salt of the earth, and patriotism. They live by Barnum's rule- America wants to believe in John Wayne so tell them no different.

And how did they do this? LEADERSHIP.

LEADERSHIP.

LEADERSHIP.

What's the largest bookstore in the US? Barnes and Noble, Borders, it doesn't matter it's one of those. It's NOT a "cooperative" or a "collective" or anything else run by committee. It's not something born on Valencia Street in San Francisco or a smart boutique in Greenwich Village for the purpose of serving "underserved communities" or somesuch humanitarian nonsense. It's a BUSINESS , run like a BUSINESS. Businesses are not run by committee.

The GOP gets away with its craft because it doesn't answer to a coven of moral arbiters.

[AndyA]

5. We need to clean house--both of them--and get some new people

who aren't compromised, and who don't owe anything to corporations. Then we need to enact new laws to prevent the corruption and conflicts of interest that exist.

Case in point: Max Baucus, leader of the committee overseeing the health care reform, has been compromised by accepting big money from the health care industry. He shouldn't be sitting on that committee, much less heading it up. And he doesn't have the ethics to step down.

[Echo In Light]

22. The problem w/relying on 'change' to occur via voting is the system is rigged in favor of big $

[CrispyQ]

31. Echo, I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that I disagreed with.

I've been reading Michael Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon" & yeah, it gets a little tin-foil-hat at times, but damn, I think a lot of what he writes is spot on. There is no two party system, only the facade of one, to placate the grunts that they have a voice. The system is so rigged & corrupt right now, your odds are better in Vegas.

edited for grammar

[Echo In Light]

57. Thanks ... and yes, I'm familiar w/Ruppert, also

[Festivito]

52. Yup, and so is the media. /nt

[Echo In Light]

3. Phony oppositional (to corporate rule) party. It creates the preferred, narrow framework

... that maintains centralized power over what Power perceives as "democratic interference."

[guitar man]

6. because we still need to evolve

as a nation and a society. We still have too many knuckle-dragging mouth breathers, even within our own party to be accepting of real change. Too many people still willing to listen to the regressive POV and shut out progressive ideas and ideals without considering them. :(

[samsingh]

53. but we need to fight for oureselves and stop letting the gop set an agenda

based on lies.

[guitar man]

55. I agree

Yes we do, evolution is a struggle...all too often a slow struggle, sometimes progress is made an inch at a time but it's progress nonetheless

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. To use Al Sharpton's phrase "Too many elephants in donkey jackets"

A goodly percentage of alleged Democrats are nearly indistinguishable from Republicans. There is no party discipline. A Democrat can say, "I'm for the Iraq War, against health care reform, and for tax cuts for the wealthy," and the party will still treat that person as one of its own.

If a Republican were to say, "I'm against the Iraq War, for single-payer health care, and for restoring the progressive nature of the federal income tax," what do you think the Republican Party would do to such a person?

[samsingh]

12. Al is right

[samsingh]

13. Al is right

[rrneck]

15. Authoritarians naturally fall into line.

Progressives are much more difficult to herd. Or, to put it another way, the first rule of politics is to find a group of people who are headed somewhere and get out in front of them. Progressives are so fractious it's hard to tell where they're headed.

[Echo In Light]

16. And are more likely to blindly support the prevailing business structure (predatory capitalism)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Especially when about a third of them aren't really progressives

On the REAL left, you'll find unanimous agreement that the military-industrial complex needs to be reined in, that we need universal publicly funded health care, that "free" trade is destroying the middle class, and that progressivity needs to be restored to the tax structure.

[rrneck]

24. Yep. nt

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. What would Republicans do you ask?

Become the minority party for the sake of issue purity - that's what they HAVE done.

[samsingh]

50. but they still have dems quaking in their boots

[lib_wit_it]

54. Yeah, and as much as Rachel and Keith like to say how irrelevant and laughable the GOP is now, they

are the ones whose agenda is getting headlines and compromising even the "Center Right" agenda, and killing off that of Progressives.

They are still in power. Money talks. Progressives walk. Liberals are Satan.

[doc03]

8. A caveman can understand their

agenda, it's simple you only have to make people scared of change and just say no.

[Romulox]

11. $$$

[Golden Raisin]

18. We take the "high road" and

try to be bipartisan. Republicans kick you hard in the balls and steal your wallet while you're down. They are united and stand/vote together. We are too fractured into various splinter groups within the Party.

[samsingh]

21. when we fight in wars - we use the same or better weapons than

our enemies.

the gop looks at politics as a war and leave nothing unscathed to win. unless we start meeting them headon, we will be perpetual losers.

[treestar]

37. Exactly. And when the voters in this country start to recognize the immorality

of that attitude and quit rewarding it as admirably "tough" - we will be better off.

[redqueen]

19. Blue Dogs & the DLC.

It's frankly shocking that this question is asked so often.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. A number of reasons.

1) We have too many single-issue people within our own party. Republicans usually sign on for the full package, but Democrats tend to be so on a more a la carte basis, creating a lot of in-fighting on a lot of issues. As for what's "wrong" with us, I think most of our internal problems begin and end here. Getting the same Democrats to care about health care the way they would abortion, the environment, or ending the Iraq War isn't quite as easy as you'd think, especially with some of the more recent converts. I think you have to look at our majorities more on an issue-by-issue basis and not quite along party lines.

2) We have a lot of members from McCain states/districts. The Republicans, on the other hand, are so narrow at this point that they pretty much only have people from solidly red-states/districts. This means they can afford to be more fringe and stronger with their message without risk of losing any more than what they already have - we don't have that luxury.

3) It's always easier to destroy than to create. That's a significant advantage that they have.

4) Our House should clearly be passing more progressive legislation irregardless of final passage - that's a big criticism I have of Pelosi. They aren't playing their "bad cop" role well at all. In the Senate, however, I know you don't want to hear it but our 60 includes Joe Lieberman, Ben/Bill Nelson, Mary Landrieu, and Max Baucus - not exactly stallwarts of progressivism. If, in theory we could get them to vote in lockstep with us, that'd be one thing, but we can't, it's never going to happen, and we're unlikely to swap them with someone who will. That's the truth.

5) We also have two rather ill, very influential Senators in Byrd and Kennedy that aren't able to participate recently. It's like the New England Patriots playing without Tom Brady and Rodney Harrison for the full year last season - yeah, they could get some things done, but they weren't winning the Super Bowl without those two guys.

6) I suspect you're making an ill-based comparison between the Republicans when they were in the majority and Democrats now, largely due to 9/11. No, I'm not arguing that this gave them any particular leverage. What it did do, however, was delay their demise, in my opinion. Without 9/11, we would've seen the House and Senate shift back to us in 2002 and the Presidency in 2004. Fear lead voters to keep the course rather than take on even more unknowns in an already uncertain period of time. All of which is to say that while Republicans appeared to play the game stronger than we did, that game would have normally lead to being back in the minority much, much sooner under normal circumstances. In other words, just because they did it doesn't mean it was smart or right - just lucky.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. Two fundamental differences between us and them...

They are better organized and fixed on simpler goals. If they have any infighting, they do it in private and in public they present a united face. We fight in public about the goal, and if we agree on one, fight again about how to get there. (Our diversity has a lot to do with this.)

Their message is simpler and easier to accept-- don't worry about a thing. Keep doing what you're doing and everything will work out. Our message is much drearier and asks you to accept some guilt and do some work.

Take the current health care debate. It is extremely complicated and we're beating ourselves up over how to solve the problems we have. We throw out all sorts of numbers and terms that no one really understands but we haven't found a way to mobilize the populace to realize things are as bad as they are, or that they can be better.

The other side has managed to mobilize more people by simplifying the message-- inventing death panels, raising the spectre of higher taxes, and questioning whether or not Congress can give you a plan better than the one you have, if not actually taking something away from you.

We assume most people are educated and up on the issues. They assume most people aren't.

Years ago, P. T. Barnum told us why they win.

[Individualist]

26. DLC is what's wrong with the party

[stray cat]

27. Just like the moderates are what is wrong with the GOP party

[Individualist]

28. No comparison

GOP moderates don't enable democrats.

"The Democratic Leadership Council's agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda," - Dennis Kucinich

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. It's actually to the right of Nixon's agenda

as those of us who remember Nixon realize.

[Individualist]

36. Correct!

[AlphaCentauri]

29. That's easy they have some of their sprouts in the Dem party n/t

[Better Today]

30. It's us, not them, us being you and me, them being Obama and Congresscritters.

We elected, then became complacent. As a matter of fact, we even elected some D's that we never really even quizzed about such things as healthcare or employment regs, we just saw a D and voted. I guess in fairness to those of us in red states that elected BlueDogs, we probably had little other choice by the time of the elections, but we really blew it in the primaries in that we didn't support the best candidate, we supported the candidate that seemed like would get the most local votes, a BlueDog.

WE need to stay organized and campaigning for the decisions that we believe are best. We need to find the way to do outrageous (though hopefully not necessarily as hateful) things as groups that force MSM to report or look entirely stupid. I notice that we have rallies and protests, but we are so "normal" in the way we go about it, it is easily under-reported. Surely there must be a way to be as outspoken and outrageous as our opponents without being the assholes that they are being.

[samsingh]

32. we have to remain vigilant.

[Better Today]

39. Bullshit!!! Vigilant means to be watchful, we need to quit being vigilant and get our asses out

of our chairs and into a public venue in outrageous and aggressive ways. We know that more people support healthcare reform than the status quo, but all anyone hears are the astroturfers. We know that Obama's polls are dropping not because many on our side are getting frustrated with single payer being off the table and public options seeming to be weak, but because we are courteous and quiet and speak mainly on forums, it is being assumed that it is a growing accumulation of anti-reformers, which it isn't. I could go on, but remain vigilant has got to be the best example of why we are failing than any other I've seen.

[samsingh]

45. okay - vigilant and aggressive

[unblock]

33. you confuse the nominal power institutions with the actual power structure

congress and the white house doesn't work the way they teach it in school, it doesn't work like it's supposed to "on paper".

in fact, in order to become a viable candidate and in order to win elections and in order to keep your seat, you have to raise money and appeal to powerful unofficial institutions, most notably very rich individuals and corporations.


not even independent wealth insulates a candidate completely from these power structures. such, a bloomberg or a perot or an actor might could avoid the need for raising money from lobbyists and so on, but the reality is that it's not all that challenging to ruin an unwanted candidate through dirty tricks and scandals, whether real or fabricated.

those who make it to congress, for the most part, play by "the rules". if the occassional maverick does make it through, they'll have little influence as they'll be blackballed by the ones who do play by the rules.


through such mechanisms, the same, or very similar, people and institutions control enough of congress to still largely get their way, even though it's harder than it is when republicans are in charge.

[treestar]

35. 911 helped them

They got their way because they were in power and used 911 and fear to increase their power. Everyone was waving the flag and supporting everything Bush and his cabal wanted.

Now things are back to normal in that sense. The same hysteria can never be whipped up in this country about health care or the economy.

And we wouldn't want a 911 for now - because we don't need another war - we need to deal with these issues.

That said, I don't get why there are Blue Dogs and who elects them. It's not the right wing crazies. Who? People who don't want health care and don't want wars - what the hell do they want?

[samsingh]

51. that was 8 years ago and thousands of lies and American lives

[Xenotime]

38. Many of those in power are cowards. We need stronger progressives in office.

[scheming daemons]

40. My personal opinion.... perfect has become the enemy of good

Too many on the left are tearing down their own President because he's only been 75% of what they want instead of 100%.


Frankly... a large chunk of the left is willing to throw Obama under the bus if they don't get EVERYTHING they want, EXACTLY how they want it, yesterday.

[Jester Messiah]

41. The republicans are very good at marching in lockstep.

You don't hear about any Red Dog Republicans. By and large, you know how the Repub block is going to vote, and it is very difficult to shave off any dissenters. Their supporters are eager to get their marching orders, because that's the mindset that appeals to them. They're very big on authority, so they do as they're told for the glory of their vision of America.

We, on the other hand, are a more fractious bunch because that's the mindset that appeals to us. We value freedom and diversity of opinion, so it should not be surprising that we have a weakness when it comes to standing as one.

[samsingh]

60. We seem to fight each other over petty differences not

realizing that the GOP is far more dangerous to our objectives that we can ever be to each other.

[madville]

42. They have to show their true colors now

It's easy to talk a good game when you are the minority. I think the Democrats are finally having a big "oh shit" moment, they are solidly in power and don't have anyone to blame now when things don't get accomplished. I think the only reason they are ACTING like the Republicans have such sway over them is they are afraid to be solely responsible for anything major. They want to be able to say it was a bi-partisan venture if it goes downhill.

[samsingh]

59. i think they're going to do that now.

[Jakes Progress]

43. Our guys are bought. Their guys are bought.

Maybe the truth is hard to take. Maybe Democrats are just not capable of getting things done.

I've been a yellow-dog D for forty years. Lately it seems we are becoming the losers that the republicans keep calling us.

Maybe that Stockholm syndrome. Washington Democrats have been held hostage by the right wing nuts for so long that they have developed a desire to please their former kidnappers; they identify with the right-wingers and crave their approval.

Whatever it is. It sucks.

[samsingh]

46. you may be right .

[OHdem10]

44. When we laid down and rolled over never fighting back as they

even some in our own pary, we permitted them to marginalize the liberals.
Unfortunately, this marginalized the Left. If you listen carefully
you can pick up now among the media--The Left is not mainstream.

This put the Left in an inferior position from the get go.

We have to be considered mainstream. This is what the DLC and
Centrist tried to overcome--I believe. History, IMO. will prove
them wrong. They only moved to the right disdaining Liberal Values.
Ordinary People often see them as people with no core beliefs who
do not take stands unless it is a Republican Stand.

Something tells me that something will happen and Liberals will
once again assert themselves showing to the world there are as
mainstream as those Goper's. In fact, they are more mainstream
than the Conservatives.

[samsingh]

47. we made it to easy for the repugs by being timid as a result of trying to take the high road

our timidity is not helping America

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. We have two wings of the same party. The really bad wing vs the Not as bad wing.

Both inhabit a corrupt system that is unchangeable and controlled by big money. The differences are in the way they tinker with the corrupt system.

[samsingh]

49. Certainly, some of the dems are really repugs - just not quite as bad

[Evoman]

56. Two reasons: 1) Repugs don't respect the rule of law and will do anything (even illegal)

to get what they want. Simply put, the dems won't. They want to play it constitutional. I like this about them.

2)They are mostly bought off by the same corps the repugs are. They have no purpose other than to get re-elected. I hate this about them.

[samsingh]

58. i definitely agree about their willingness to do the 'illegal'

they also lie, cheat, fabricate and make shit up.

they are entirely hypocritical.