Obama Pushes States to Shift on Education--More charter schools & test scores used to judge teachers

[Karmadillo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/education/17educ.html

Obama Pushes States to Shift on Education Sign in to Recommend

Holding out billions of dollars as a potential windfall, the Obama administration is persuading state after state to rewrite education laws to open the door to more charter schools and expand the use of student test scores for judging teachers.

That aggressive use of economic stimulus money by Education Secretary Arne Duncan is provoking heated debates over the uses of standardized testing and the proper federal role in education, issues that flared frequently during President George W. Bush’s enforcement of his signature education law, called No Child Left Behind.

A recent case is California, where legislative leaders are vowing to do anything necessary, including rewriting a law that prohibits the use of student scores in teacher evaluations, to ensure that the state is eligible for a chunk of the $4.3 billion the federal Education Department will soon award to a dozen or so states. The law had strong backing from the state teachers union.

Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Tennessee and several other states have moved to bring their laws or policies into line with President Obama’s school improvement agenda.

The administration’s stance has caught by surprise educators and officials who had hoped that Mr. Obama’s calls during the campaign for an overhaul of the No Child law would mean a reduced federal role and less reliance on standardized testing. The law requires schools to bring all students to proficiency in reading and math by 2014 and penalizes those that do not meet annual goals.

more...

[BlooInBloo]

1. (shakes head) You can never, ever hold teachers accountable for anything...

They, cops, and doctors are the big 3 that escape accountability for their job performance.

[donco6]

4. Says who?

Please, share some of your anecdotal wisdom.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Teachers.

[donco6]

8. Oh really?

You have teachers telling you they have no accountability?

[Tim01]

76. Ha ha ha! Please name your sources. I am a sub teacher.

And the teachers I KNOW PERSONALLY want to be allowed to teach.They are willing to be judged on their results. They don't want to be judged on a system that doesn't even work. I know you want somebody to complain about, try Bush and Obama.
The system they are forcing on us ensures students don't learn anything except what is on the test. It ensures a very bad learning environment, and it ensures students learn to do what they are told instead of learning to think.
A crop of subservient consumers.

[Jakes Progress]

14. You just gave grover norquist an orgasm. nt

[Dinger]

37. No Shit

The anti-teacher bias here is getting louder by the day.

[MadHound]

41. Bullshit

Teachers are held accountable by parents, administrators, their students, and the public at large. They are the only profession in which the public gets to decide how much they're paid and what their job duties are.

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. Doctors get sued all the time for malpractice

[crazy_vanilla]

58. teachers have never killed anybody - unlike doctors nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. Some parents would disagree with that assertion:

Killeen woman testifies to Congress

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 20 2009 05:43 AM By Rebecca LaFlure

Killeen Daily Herald

Cedric Napoleon gave his foster mother, Toni Price, a beaming smile as he boarded a Killeen school bus on March 7, 2002.

"You know I love you, Ma," Cedric said, then an eighth-grader at Manor Middle School.

Cedric never made it back home.

The 14-year-old special-education student died that afternoon after his behavior management teacher placed him in a "therapeutic floor hold" to prevent him from struggling during a dispute over lunch.

more: http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=33444

[roguevalley]

69. well, glad you cleared that up. Something tells me you hated sixth

grade.

[jody]

2. OK for holding teachers accountable iff govt allows teachers to decide whether a student is in

her/his class.

[madfloridian]

3. You are brave. People here overall have low opinions of teachers.

Many here at DU hold them in contempt.

Everytime I write about Duncan and his goals for schools, I am stunned how well the "bad teachers" meme has really worked.

Did you know Duncan is using the philosophies of Newt Gingrich and company?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6312649

[donco6]

5. It's already in the first post. n/t

[madfloridian]

9. I will look again. I did not see Gingrich mentioned.

He has no place in reforming education under a Democratic administration.

I puzzle over why Duncan was chosen. I wonder why he treats teachers and their unions so badly, and wonder if Obama knew and understood his goals when he appointed him?

[donco6]

13. I mean the low opinion part.

And you're right. Mentioning teaching around here is like ringing a fucking dinner bell in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

[wtmusic]

28. DUzy for that metaphor.

:rofl:

[donco6]

30. Glad you liked it!

It just came to me, and so appropos, too.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Overall? I thought it was just me.

[madfloridian]

11. No, most here know you hold low opinions of many things....teachers included.

We can tell.

[Odin2005]

31. I have negative opinions of teachers from personal experience.

I still have PTSD from the bullying and humiliating behavior of school faculty.

[Karmadillo]

39. It would be interesting to let the members of the hate teachers brigade teach for a year or two.

I imagine they might develop a different perspective.

[downeyr]

65. This concerns me...

...I'm studying to be a teacher and from the experience I've had as a student, standardized testing sucks. If Obama is really behind this idea of encouraging charter schools and standardized tests, I'm in direct opposition to Obama on this issue. Standardized testing does nothing but suck the enthusiasm out of students and teachers alike, in addition to punishing schools where students do not perform well. Standardized tests only test three (and that's being generous) of the intelligences found in Gardner's Multiple Intelligences--so how are we supposed to measure the success of schools/teachers/students if we measure all students/teachers/schools as if they have the same personalities, circumstances, and financial situations? It's ridiculous. The only thing that will make education better is more individual attention on individual students' needs and abilities.

[Laelth]

10. Huh? Obama is advancing Republican educational goals?

What?

What in the world happened today? I feel like it's April 1 and the Democratic Party is just playing a huge joke on its base.

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

[donco6]

15. This has been Duncan's mantra from the start.

And Obama chose him. I remember some here pushing FOR him over Linda Darling-Hammond.

[Laelth]

20. Yikes. I had no idea. I have been focused on other issues.

I am getting really depressed. I may have to change my sig. line.

:(

:dem:

-Laelth

[donco6]

29. Duncan in Chicago was a big charter proponent.

In large urban settings - maybe it's a good option. All I know is that mandating it for the country is a BAD idea.

Here's my experience with charters.

Charters are formed in Colorado by groups of parents. A large number of them are "white flight" charters. These are formed by a housing development corp. who - as they sell homes - get parents together to create a charter, then they dedicate land and use Tax Increment Financing to fund the school. As they build homes, they collect the property taxes and finance the building. So you have these lovely lily-white enclaves scattered all over the metro area with their own school.

Another thing I've seen about charters is they operate only with a safety net of a public school. They create whatever instructional programs they want, and if the kids can't pass the bar, they "counsel them out" and get them to go back to the public school. The public school has no such option, of course. Many charters, in fact, have specific rules that they CANNOT accept a kid coming in to the Soph, Junior or Senior year. "They have to be grounded in our 'way' of doing things" they'll say. So again, the public school gets to take the Junior ELL kid fresh from Mexico.

Finally, the charters have strict progress monitoring for all kids. If they aren't making the credits to pass to the next grade, they get rid of them. It's no suprise they would have higher graduation rates. They don't keep kids who aren't on track for graduation.

There are a hundred other issues.

[Dinger]

47. I Have Heard NOTHING On What Duncan Says About RURAL Schools,

especially poor ones. He must not give a shit, or does not know they exist.

[donco6]

56. I'm thinking the latter.

Our district is only 6,000 kids. It's next to impossible to find a federal grant that we can apply for. They're all specifically geared for large urban districts. At least we have the urban part. For a rural district - fergit it.

[JCMach1]

70. This was his position during the campaign... didn't like it then

and like it even less now!

[Laelth]

75. Yuck. I missed that, obviously.

Why is it that Democrats always seem to be able to accomplish their worst objectives (like Clinton wanting to "reform" welfare), and are completely unable to accomplish their better goals ... the things they promised to us and the things for which we supported them (like health care reform)?

:shrug:

It's frustrating, to say the least.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Jakes Progress]

12. Darth Norquist is grinning his evil grin.

He has brought so many DU'ers over to the dark side. Feel the hate.

Privatizing Education and Millions for Testing are a key element of the neocon dream.

Those who bash unions, demand more tests, and display hatred for teachers have been truly purchased by the neocon machine. It has been a successful campaign for them.

[madfloridian]

17. Other unions are good. Teachers' unions are bad. Teachers are bad.

Therefore we must let the good corporations privatize them.

Yes, DU is like a hate site now for teachers.

[Jakes Progress]

18. I think some of these just got caught

smoking in the bathroom when they were in the seventh grade. Still angry. The neocon message feeds them and makes them feel justified in their childish resentment.

[donco6]

19. It's awful.

This thread will go straight to hell soon. I normally just block them out.

[Dinger]

38. When Should We Give Up?

It's breathtaking really. I'm stunned. Not sure how to respond to this bullshit.

[LostInAnomie]

16. Obama has always had his head up his ass on education.

Don't forget, he was a big fan of merit pay during the campaign.

[msongs]

23. yeah lets grade OBAMA by the performance of congress lol wanker BS from him nt

[donco6]

24. Congress?

Duncan is a member of his Cabinet - not Congress.

[tomg]

40. Great analogy.

I just had this image of a middle school teacher trying to administer a standardized exam to a group of 30 8th graders the day after Halloween when they are all wired on candy. Sort of like Obama trying to get health care reform through with about half of congress wired on insurance and pharma money.

[QC]

21. OK, we're getting Romney's health care plan and Bush's ed policies.

Who won the election?

[Karmadillo]

36. Kick

nt

[Dinger]

45. Nice, Isn't It?

:sarcasm:

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. +1 nt

[demmiblue]

22. The republicanization of public schools

:puke:

[fascisthunter]

25. one more step in the direction of getting rid of public education

this country is fucked.

[donco6]

26. We have a public Montessori school.

Among others.

Montessori is diametrically opposed to standardized testing. But research over a LONG period of time show Montessori kids doing as well or BETTER than their peers in postsecondary studies. This trend will kill our Montessori school, while private schools that DON'T have to test will be able to continue unabated.

Bizarre.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. I favor teachers. I dislike Duncan and charter schools and stupid fucking tests.

Children are not comodoties and education is a process, not a stupid fucking test score.

This is such repubican TRIPE.

[Dinger]

46. Thank You Stinky

:)

Good to know someone here likes teachers.

[Versailles]

32. Posted my thoughts on education previously...

Basically after 8 years in education, mostly in charter schools, I find them an exercise in futility. The more charter schools in an area allows for students to bounce around from school to school while their records are in transit and eventually drop out without having to learn even basic skills. Not to mention that the public schools feel more confident in expelling troublesome students since the charters are often given funds based on student enrollment and the charter HAVE to accept all applicants unless the school is full. This creates a situation where the charter often ends up with the worst students in the district, eventually driving out the best students from the charters.

The idea of "grading" a teacher based on student performance is laughable. We all had teachers we didn't like and if their job and pay was tied to our performance, it is too tempting and easy for spiteful students to tank a class just to get a teacher fired. I've found in many cases that the teachers I hated as a student were often the ones who actually pushed me to learn and I learned the most from. It was the "fun" teachers that I learned almost nothing from. In any case, I posted an analogy of the stupidity of this merit based pay a couple weeks ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6166134

[Dinger]

48. Excellent. You Should Repost That (nt)

[Frank Booth]

33. Good. Hopefully this will weaken the stranglehold the teachers' unions have on the districts.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but in Los Angeles the union's an absolute nightmare. Lack of accountability is not a good trait to promote in public schools.

[madfloridian]

34. Teachers' unions are bad. Others are good things.

That is the new philosophy of our party.

In fact not sure about the other unions either.

Darn those teachers anyway.

[QC]

43. It's amazing how much right wing bullshit has made its way onto DU.

But then, the party has lurched hard to the right, too, so I guess it makes sense.

[MadHound]

42. Teachers' unions have a stranglehold on the districts?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

In whatever alternate universe that you live in perhaps, but here in the real world, teachers are pretty much hired and fired at will, as long as there is a good cause, and in many cases without a good cause.

I love how people around here speak of this all powerful teachers' union, meanwhile they vote, again, not to pay teachers more, not to fund schools, etc. etc.

Geez, if teachers' unions were so all powerful schools would be fully funded and teachers would be making six digit salaries. As it is, the schools are crumbling and teachers get paid a pittance.

[Frank Booth]

57. What other job can you get that pays $70,000 for 9 months of work?

Because that's standard pay for teachers with a few years experience around where I live.

And many aren't exactly the best and brightest. Graduates from barely accredited schools are welcomed with open arms to LAUSD.

[crazy_vanilla]

59. what the F*ck are you talking about?!!!

$70,000 is the salary of a school principal, not a teacher. Apparently someone wasn't paying attention in school and doesn't know their numbers....

States pay between 25K and 50K a year. If a teacher's job is so easy, let me place you in a room of 30-40 rowdy middle-schoolers and see how well you will do. You will be crying for your mama after the 1st 15 minutes.

[Frank Booth]

63. Here you go:

http://www.teachinla.com/Research/documents/salarytables/ttableannual.pdf

I know a couple people who've been teaching for the district for about 6-7 years, and they both make $70,000+ a year, and take the summers off.

Maybe consider moving to L.A.?

[downeyr]

67. Do you know why that is?!

Okay, as you must know after living in California, there is a teacher shortage. Plus, another fun fact for you is that 46 percent of teachers leave after five years of teaching.

http://www.unt.edu/untresearch/2007-2008/teaching.htm

And it's not because of the payment, but because it's so fucking hard. Plus, your comment that teachers take the summers off is not entirely correct--teachers attend conferences and even take summer classes to get more school credits in order to get paid more because of their shitty pay, not to mention spending their summers preparing lesson plans and syllabi for the upcoming school year. Most teachers start off at 36,000 dollars a year and only when they teach for longer or get more schooling are they able to make more money.

[downeyr]

66. A-fucking-men! n/t

[MadHound]

61. You're either being willfully disingeuous, or you're dramatically uninformed on this topic

The vast majority of teachers aren't paid $70,000, more like $20-30,000 to start and progress slooowly up the pay scale from there. Let's compare that with the starting salaries for those with other four year degrees, you'll find that an education degree is down around the bottom on monetary return for your education buck.

Meanwhile those taking a standard college education degree take a significantly larger amount of class hours, which means larger amounts of money invested in the education. If you're getting your degree in a middle or high school content area you are essentially getting two degrees, one in education and one in your content area.

As far as working only nine months a year, go find a teacher and ask them what they did last summer. You'll find that most of them taught summer school, or better yet, did the mandatory continuing education (which now includes getting a masters degree) on their own dime.

Before you make further foolish statements I would suggest that you go find out what teaching is really like.

[crazy_vanilla]

62. amen, MadHound

You are much calmer and well-spoken when I first read this nonsense. I just lost it.

I did work summer school because I couldn't afford not to. I did spend a couple of weeks in mandatory professional development so I don't lose my teaching certificate. Most teachers I know do have a Master's degree.

We works our butts off and put up with a lot of crap from principals, parents, and even students. But what hurts most is for people to discount all my efforts in a profession I love and accuse me of being lazy, indifferent, and incompetent.

If it weren't for the efforts, extra work without pay, and special academic and counseling care we teachers provide for today's youth, things will be dire for them.

[QC]

44. Teachers are enemies of the people.

Fortunately, The Leader will defeat these kulaks and counterrevolutionaries.

[Dinger]

50. Public Schools Have Accountability. Charter And Private Schools Do Not Have The Same Accountability

It's charters and the like that do not want the same accountability as public schools. Wonder why that is? Hmmmm.

[Vidar]

35. Obama's disastrous ideas on education are getting lost amid his losing tactics on healh care reform.

[Joanne98]

49. Charter schools=corporate/christian Testing/judging teachers=union busting

[Dinger]

51. Exactly

And it isn't like people here don't know that. But they keep on anyway.

[Tim01]

52. Might as well take a fucked up worthless system, and INCREASE IT!

Teachers should get out while they still can. Parents should either get their kids in private school if they can, or home school.
Maintaining hope is not realistic.
Obama is helping to further wreck the education system.

[LWolf]

55. Obama/Duncan = republican destruction of public education on steroids.

And it's unforgivable, for this educator.

[crazy_vanilla]

60. so true, so true

Let's scare all teachers off and destroy the unions, then everyone will be happy. :sarcasm: Everyone can teach their own kids themselves then and America will finally fall to the bottom of the pile.

Teachers are such an easy target for simple-minded individuals who otherwise do not hold themselves or other parents accountable for some of the bad educational outcomes we see.

When you have kids coming into class without sleep because their parents were shooting up all night and spent all the money on drugs and not food, it is, of course, the teachers' fault.

When grandma and mom sell the clothes and shoes your teacher bought for you out of their own pocket to buy drugs, then, again, it is the teachers' fault.

When you have never heard an intelligent conversation or found a book in your home and you are struggling in reading and basic social skills, that again is the teachers' fault.

When a student assaults a teacher, beats him to a pulp, and puts him in the hospital, it is, again, the teacher's fault.


Many people have no idea what they are talking about. They need to volunteer in their inner-city school and see all these stories for themselves.

[Tim01]

64. And seriously, what the fuck is more important than education?

These kids who are NOT getting educated and NOT being taught to think, will have to run this country one day.
We are going to be the worlds cesspool of education.

[downeyr]

68. I more or less said that...

...in my philosophy of education essay I wrote this past quarter! Critical thinking for everyone!

[LWolf]

79. I've been saying that for decades.

So have a lot of my fellow educators.

We have been framed as a "special interest group," and set up as scapegoats for the destructive policies enacted by non-educators.

If I were going to write standards, they would be very few, and very broad. A standard each for high-level thinking, literacy, and numeracy.

[LWolf]

78. At the very least,

the Secretary of Education and the people making policy should have been teachers, and been there to see reality themselves.

:thumbsup:

[tj2001]

71. More $$$ for Pearson, Data Recognition et al

[nc4bo]

73. Not sure what to think of any of it.

Some schools are failures; public, private, charter.

Testing children and teachers for the sake of testing is not productive. For instance, under NCLB, both my children learned how to be extremely proficient at filling in circles with a #2 pencil and spent probably 1/3 of their education time learning how to take the dumb ass tests.

Some teachers suck. Instead of dismissing them, offer them the opportunity to correct their shortcomings, provide assistance to them if necessary. If it's being done already, try harder. Take a "shaky" teacher and team them up with an "excellent" teacher, a mentoring program so to speak. There always seems to be a shortage of teachers and until the day comes that people stop making babies, there will always be needed. Pay them, respect them and treat them well.

And the real bottom-line is; even with all of the changes and funding, testing, curriculum building, disciplinary actions, charter school pimping, public education rehabbing, nothing, and I do mean nothing, will make one damned bit of difference if the PARENTS are not doing THEIR job at home.

Why is every one so afraid of stating the obvious? Say it a million, zillion times: Parents have a MAJOR role in their children's education.

[Are_grits_groceries]

74. Well, I'll bet the Health Care Teabaggers won't be up in arms about this government control.

Obama Pushes States to Shift on Education
Holding out billions of dollars as a potential windfall, the Obama administration is persuading state after state to rewrite education laws to open the door to more charter schools and expand the use of student test scores for judging teachers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/education/17educ.html...

Much more work needs to be done. Many public schools have been failing for decades despite ever-increasing sums being allocated to the public education system. We think it’s vital to bring competition into that system by introducing more charter schools, by allowing parents to enroll their children in the programs they think best, and by providing tax credits and vouchers to parents of children in failing schools.


What's the difference? This is outright blackmail to get more charter schools and testing. They are blatantly trying to control the STATES' education direction.

In SC, the Republican legislature and Sanford(2 distinct entities) have ground down the public school system while pushing for charter schools and vouchers. Instead of an agressive effort to fix the public school system, they have let it go so they can point out how awful it is.

Look at states' budget cuts. What is in the first group of items to be cut? education
Even when times are not so dire, education is always on the firing line. How do you expect it to ever get better?

If they were to try this same process to get states to set up competitive health care systems, the protests would make the ones we have just seen look like starter kits for rallies.

The RW has pushed the idea of charter schools and testing as hard as they can. This is manna from heaven to them, and they will give Gawd and Jeebus credit for changing minds.

As someone pointed out, unions are great. They support us. EXCEPT the teachers' unions. I don't get it.

A lot of people like to minimize the work teachers do. Do you know why?
Because a lot of people think it is easy, and that they could walk into a classroom and take over with no problem.
If you have never taught, then volunteer to be a teacher's aide for a while. I won't even ask for you to try to be a teacher. Just work in the schools and help deal what comes up.

People rant about the bad teachers they had. I know there are bad teachers because I taught with some. Hell, I'm sure I was a bad teacher to some kids. I hope I didn't ruin too many lives.

However, do you remember a teacher who really helped you? Someone who went out of their way to give you a hand?

BTW the second paragraph above was taken from Mark Sanford's SC Governor's website.

[Prophet0621]

77. We've had standardized tests here in Va for years and

they don't work. Teachers and schools are held accountable based on the test scores, so they teach to the test. Every parent/teacher conference I'm stunned at the amount of information the students are not going to learn about because it's not on the test.
Another problem, and I know I'm going to get jumped on here for this one is the non English speaking students. What happened to ESL classes? Even mentioning it will give you dirty looks. In an effort for all children to be treated equally these kids who could benefit from ESL classes are getting screwed and often fall behind. Now students are all thrown together and half the class is held up while these poor kids are trying to understand not only the information on the test but the language too and missing much of it. I couldn't expect to walk into a class to learn when I can't even understand the language and then expected to pass a test.
I was really hoping that Obama and his administration would abandon the fiasco of standardized tests but politicians are all the same, throw more money at it and test it. Only difference this time is we have an 'education czar'... BFD, just more Federal government knows best crap.