To Serve and Protect.

[johnaries]

RE: Professor Gates and the Cambridge Officer. This is just my 2 cents worth.

I just finished reading the police report. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Now, of course the report by the arresting officer and the "corroborating" report by another officer is only one side of the story. I would love to hear Professor Gates' side as well. But for the moment let's just assume the officer's report is correct.

First of all, the report repeatedly stated that Gates was "uncooperative" and the officer even reported this back to ECC. Although we cannot be sure what Professor Gates' state of mind was at the time, let's look at what should be evident to an outsider. The caller stated they were wearing "backpacks". Although it wasn't stated in the report, it must have been obvious that they had some kind of luggage and were returning from a trip of some kind. I know that when I return from a trip I am very tired and the first thing I want to do is take a shower and hit the sheets. I have heard the same from everyone else I have talked to. Plus, he had obviously been struggling to get the door open for quite some time. Imagine how frustrating it would be to return tired and exhausted from a long trip and then not be able to open your own door! Then, on top of that, the Police show up and start asking question! So, I think it is reasonable to assume that any outside observer - especially a trained and experienced Police Officer - would recognize that such a person would be in a state of high frustration and take this into account.

It appears that at first the officer was acting correctly. He had received a call of a possible break-in and it was his duty to check it out. It appeared that to the officer that Gates was the home-owner and he reported it back to ECC as such. However, it was his duty to verify and check ID. Which he did. And then he prepared to leave, as he should have.

Up to this point, it appears from the report that if anyone was guilty of racial profiling it would be the caller. It appears from the report that Professor Gates over-reacted. However, we do not know what the tone and the demeanor of the officer was and if that tone or demeanor contributed to Gates' reactions. Also, as stated before, it should have been obvious to any outsider that Gates would have been in a state of high frustration.

It also stated in the report that Gates almost immediately accused the Officer of being a racist. Such accusations, whether tru e or not, can be hurtful and insulting. However, Police Officers should be trained to ignore insults and keep a "cool head". At least, I know that we were trained to do so in the National Guard when dealing with civilians. When Gates called to report the officer, I'm sure that could have been insulting to the officer as well. However, the officer should have known that if he acted correctly all he had to do was give his report and the matter would be closed.

So, IF (admittedly, a big "if") the report was correct, it appears the officer acted correctly until he attempted to leave.

It was at this point that a crowd (about 7 people according to the "corroborating" report) had gathered outside. IMHO, what the offier SHOULD have done was attempt to disperse the crowd with a simple statement such as "It's ok, folks. Just a simple misunderstanding. Go about your business" and left. Instead, the officer turned and confronted Professor Gates and eventually arrested him. It is notable that the charges against Gates were later dropped.

Now, I am not an "expert" but I do have some experience with "human nature". I am guessing that the Officer at this point felt that Professor Gates was undermining his authority as a Police Officer in front of a small crowd and over-reacted in order to demonstrate that authority.

So, whether racially motivated or not, IMHO it appears that by arresting Professor Gates the officer was acting "stupidly".

Since the charges were dropped, it would seem the DA agrees.

And, since the Media decided to report broadly on this incident, it would seem they agreed as well.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[BlooInBloo]

1. "let's just assume the officer's report is correct" - bwahaha! Why on earth would you do that?

[Howardx]

2. no kidding

what about recent history makes you think we should trust a police report?

[johnaries]

3. Just as a hypothetical to make a point.

As I also stated, that is only one side of the story and I would love to hear Professor Gates' side. My point is that even if the report were correct the officer should not have arrested Gates.

[Howardx]

8. which police report?

from what ive read there have been 2 version so far

[johnaries]

12. The one at my link. There is another? I'd like to see it, as well. nt

[hfojvt]

18. there is one from Crowley and one from Figueroa

Is there more than one from Crowley?

[Howardx]

35. supposedly

i'll see if i can find them both

[Howardx]

45. check this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8546202

it has the story of the 2 reports

[johnaries]

53. Hmmmm, very interesting!

I wonder which report is the one I linked to in The Smoking Gun. I'd love to be able to compare the two!

[hfojvt]

56. that does not sound like two reports

It sounds like one report and one edited report. it depends if the editing actually changed something as in "the wind was blowing fron the north and it was raining" is changed to "the wind was blowing from the south and the sun was out" versus just removing some things (like the frigging weather). The report I read did not include a detail that has some of the blogosphere up in arms, namely that Crowley entered the house (and why, although that seems obvious to me).

[Howardx]

57. i said there had been 2 versions so far

sounds like you agree with me.

[seabeyond]

4. because even going off what the officer said, there are three points, from his words, he was wrong

and that is not even taking into account gates version.

[johnaries]

6. EXACTLY! Thank you!

[BlooInBloo]

16. Ah. Well that's reasonable. Guess I shoulda kept reading after that part.

:P

[johnaries]

29. NP. I probably would have had the same reaction!

and :P back atcha! :hi:

[hfojvt]

17. I would call that strengthening your argument

You give up 90% of ground to your opponent and still win. You circumvent and make irrelevant all the arguments about 'who is telling the truth' that you have no way of proving.

[PurityOfEssence]

31. Objectivity. It's a concept. Try it sometime.

Have you worked much with Police Officers? Many actually don't suck.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Thanks for showing me what "stupider than not reading the rest of the OP" means.

[johnaries]

48. Well, I can understand his point. You can't simply assume objectivity.

He admitted he didn't read the rest of the post. And I'll admit that I'm guilty of sometimes reading to a certain point and then making "snap" judgements.

I've known many cops. The one thing I've learned is that they are people. Some are "good" people, some are assholes. Although their reports are supposed to be objective and many attempt to make them as objective as possible, it's only human nature that the report is going to be at least a little biased. Which is why each one is supposed to file different reports independently. Although, still, as in any fraternity a "corroborating report" is also going to be at least a little biased.

Again, it's nothing against police generally or indivually, it's just human nature.

So, yes, you are correct that such reports are SUPPOSED to be objective. But BinB is also correct in that you can't always expect them to be. ESPECIALLY in controversial cases where the first human instinct is CYA.

OK, group hug everybody! :evilgrin:

[TexasObserver]

70. The officer's report is not based on truth, but upon the officer's needs.

He writes the report to justify whatever it is he did.

[Javaman]

5. ...

:popcorn:

I cheer you for you common sense observation, but I can guarantee others here on DU won't.

[johnaries]

7. At least it will make for some interesting discussion!

And maybe add some different perspectives to the discussion.

Butter and Parmesan on mine, please.

[Sandaasu]

9. They both acted "stupidly" from the sound of it.

The cop went a bit too far in arresting Gates, but Gates himself made a large error in assuming that the officer was racist just for asking for his id, which is something that was prudent for him to do given the circumstances.

I'd guess, based upon the evidence that we have, that we have a case of two people, who are normally quite rational, being put in a situation that causes great tension between them. One does his job in simply trying to gather information from the other, for the sake of the other's own security. The other assumes that the first is being a bigot, thinking that he's simply assuming that a black man is guilty, when he in fact was just there to confirm that there wasn't a break-in occurring. If anyone made any assumptions based upon race, it was the initial caller, not the cop. It really makes the most sense to me that neither party was really in the wrong, but both were just victims of circumstance.

[seabeyond]

10. one is allowed to, and one is not. can you figure that simple one out? n/t

[johnaries]

13. True, because Police are supposed to be trained to handle

such situations. Hence my OP title, "to Serve and Protect".

[seabeyond]

15. exactly. and in their training they are told people get angry. and it is their job to defuse

certainly not to escalate and make it a battle over power

[Sandaasu]

14. Actually, no.

You're not allowed to scream and yell at a police officer and cause a disturbance. While the officer probably shouldn't have arrested him for it in this case, if Gates did indeed do what the offer claims, he's hardly blameless.

[seabeyond]

20. the police knew he belonged per his report and he stayed instead of leaving, escalating the

situation. right there, on the cops shoulders. he was asked for the id and name and he refused to give which he has to do by law escalating the anger which goes against his training. he had gates come outside to give him the info, to arrest him....

this is per the cop, not taking into consideration gates account.

the cop was wrong. the cop did not do his job. the cop was on a power trip

[Sandaasu]

23. According to the cop he did give that information though, read the report again.

It looks like you're getting the two mixed up, and you're treating Gates' report as if it was the only factual one.

[seabeyond]

26. per the cops report he did give him id adn said he knew gates belong, he then further

went to verify with harvard adn calling harvard police.

he already knew gates belonged. his words. then he took more time calling in harvard police for further verification. if he knew, which he states, he did not need further verification. it was simply to hassle, prolong and extend the confrontation. what police do when they are pissed at you

[Sandaasu]

32. According to the cop he did contact harvard police, and prepared to leave.

This is when, according to the cop, Gates started yelling at him and becoming rather indignant. If that report is true, then if Gates had just let things be at that point, the cop would have left without there being an incident. According to the cop, Gates was yelling questions which were the cop's duty to answer, and then ignoring the answers to them, which could logically keep the cop from leaving because he's trying to do this part of his duty. He even went so far as to specify that he was leaving and Gates was still there yelling at him.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sandaasu]

39. Another person who doesn't pay attention and thinks that I'm defending the cop.

Who about that. I suggest you have another look. I don't think either party probably acted appropriately here. I'm not defending either party.

[Howardx]

42. sure youre not

comin out of the freakin woodwork today...

[Sandaasu]

43. Classic ad hominem attack, not worth any more of my time. n/t

[Howardx]

44. thats fine

i wouldnt want you to use any of your very limited time here on me.

[seabeyond]

51. follow this. cop got id, said he KNEW gates belong, then contacted

then... contacted harvard police. he knew gates was in his home yet continued the process. this is a statement from his report. at the point of KNOWING it was gates home, he wsas done.

this isnt a tough concept

[hfojvt]

25. that's not per the cop though

where are you getting the 'he stayed instead of leaving' statement. It is certainly not in the police report. Second, according to the cop he gave his name from the start and tried to do so later but was shouted down. Also, according to the police report, Gates did not get arrested as soon as he stepped outside.

[seabeyond]

27. it does say he got id and then went to further verify with harvard police.

also says he started to give name and was shouted down. if that is true, a cop can wait a sec and then give name, he did not, he played a game.

[hfojvt]

34. I would say that somebody who shouts me down after asking for my name

is playing some sort of game too. Some version of 'berate the peon'.

As a peon myself, I am, again, not gonna applaud Gates here. I thought progressives were all about being on the side of the working class and the powerless. I guess I didn't know who I was messing with.

[Caliman73]

46. You are calling a police officer working class and powerless?

Police have an inordinate amount of power because private citizens continuously cede their rights in the search of the illusive sense of "safety".They are not peons and they are not powerless. If Gates were yelling at the police officer then he was acting a fool. The police should have been the bigger person, written down his information, then left. He could have vented with his co workers on what an "ass that guy was".

[seabeyond]

54. isnt this odd? n/t

[hfojvt]

55. cops here work for the city just like I do

they don't make that much more money that I do either. I don't think they have all that much power either although I did see some kind of assault team leaving the cop shop once on my way to work. They are certainly peons compared to Gates who is friends with the President and Oprah, not to mention his Harvard connections. Gates had a driver for his travels. What was Gates doing when the cop showed up? He was on the phone asking that his door be fixed IMMEDIATELY. A repairman arrived before Gates was even carted away, and all at no expense to Gates.

The police may have more power over other peons, but not over Lord Gates. He's proven that. What would I have done in the same circumstances. 1) Not have made a fuss, but 2) if I had been arrested under similar circumstances, I would end up in court and paying a fine (although maybe not, because I do know a couple of lawyers who are state legislators :o)

[seabeyond]

52. i am not applauding gates, and nowhere in my posts can you point it out. the cop is trained

that this is what people do dealing with cops. the cops are trained how to handle the situation. they are the ones in power and they are trained to defuse the situation. the cop did not do his job.

the cop has the power. gates is the powerless one, you understand. the cop did not do his job, took away gates rights, and arrested the man when he had no cause to arrest. where in the hell do you see the cop as powerless and gates with the power

[hfojvt]

59. afterward when the charges were dropped

and the mayor, governor and president all took Gates side. That looks like a fair anount of power to me, and Gates said as he was arrested 'you don't know who you are messing with'. He knew damn well he had this power.

You don't have to applaud Gates, but if you paint the incident with only one guy being bad or stupid or having a bad day, then Gates is let off the hook.

Yep, the trained peon did not do his job when the mighty lord did his best to make sure the peon's job was very difficult as he threatened to take it away in the process.

It's kinda funny because I am being pragmatic. I think the cop should have realized that he has to take a fair amount of crap from a famous Harvard Professor. That's why he was stupid to make the arrest. Not because the dude in question did not deserve to be arrested, but because the dude in question is a Harvard Professor. The cop kinda stood up for himself and treated Mr. High and Mighty just like anybody else. I wonder if I shouldn't be applauding him for that.

Of course, many here are fans of Gates, just like I am a fan of Somerby, Alterman, or Asimov, so they do not believe their friend was acting high and mighty. And they might be right, but they also might be wrong. Edit, and as much as I like Somerby, somethimes he does seem like a jerk who's a little too harsh and full of himself.

[seabeyond]

60. no, you are not being pragmatic, you are being emotional. pragmatic is

the cops job. he did not do it. and doesnt matter if gates is arrogant. not what this is about. the man can be arrogant. the man can be rich, or have famous friends. the man can be an ass. it is not about gates likability. it is about a cop doing his job. the cop didnt do his job

that is pragmatic

resenting gates and seeing cop as peon ergo, he had reason for behavior, is being emotional

[hfojvt]

61. exactly, the servant did not do his job, he deserves at least 50 lashes

You know what, sometimes I screw up. I forget to empty trash cans. It's kinda funny then how co-workers and customers react. "I am not gonna do that guy's job for him" (translation, he gets no help from me even when he needs it). My job, you see, is apparently beneath them. They cannot be taken upon to empty a trash can even though it is hardly rocket surgery or power-lifting. They just throw trash on the floor and complain that the trash can was not emptied like the servant was supposed to do. (Note, I was supposed to empty the trash the night before, so I am not there when said customers are dumping the trash on the floor. I even had a caterer (who I had helped with HIS work all the time), when I was working downstairs and the party got done early, when the trash cans got full, he called my supervisor at home instead of emptying a few himself (and replacement bags are right underneath the full bag at the bottom of the can. Woe be to the peon who doesn't do his job. No mercy for the bad if they want it.)

Management, however, has said that they will back me up. I do not have to take verbal abuse. I can have somebody kicked out if they are verbally abusive to me. Presumably that is true even if the paying customer is the son of the city manager. However, pragmatically, it would be kinda stupid to assert myself against somebody as powerful as the son of the city manager. You gotta know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Imagine if the situation was reversed racially. Suppose the high and mighty professor was white and the cop was black. Here Mr. Prof is calling the cop every name in the book, racial epithets no less, and threatening to take his job. The black cop walks out of the house and Mr. High and Mighty still follows, hurling his accusations and insults out to the whole block. He is asked to calm down, but doesn't because he is gonna show that uppity n*** who is boss. He then is arrested for disorderly conduct while he shouts 'you don't know who you are messing with'.

Are you still gonna be all righteous about 'the cop didn't do his job'? Are you still gonna refuse to even consider that there might be some fault with Mr. Harvard Bigshot Incorporated?

[johnaries]

62. Seabeyond HAS admitted that Gates over-reacted.

What he and I have both been contending was that it was part of Crowleys job to diffuse the situation. It has been noted that Crowley is even a trainer in racial profiling. Therefore, he should be an expert in diffusing such situations.

Yes, Gates acted poorly. He was tired, frustrated, and maybe he is even a little self-important (or maybe not). That is NOT the issue. The issue is that Crowley should have diffused the situation but instead escalated it.

The cop didn't do his job. Period.

[hfojvt]

65. Period and fifty lashes for that horrible servant

He should have bowed and scraped some more to mollify the angry lord. Apparently even walking away was not defusing the situation. And other people with the same training are saying that he acted appropriately.

I think he should have realized that he has to take some abuse from a Harvard Prof with connections, but I will still take the side of a fellow servant over that of a lord trying to throw his weight around.

[johnaries]

67. No one is saying that. What we are saying was that he was wrong

to arrest Gates. As Seabeyond and I both said he should have just left. You are going waaaaay overboard.

[seabeyond]

72. lets be clear. you are saying cop is allowed to break the law cause a person is arrogant?

that a cop is allowed to falsely arrest someone because they are an ass? that they do not have to follow constitutional rights because a person is rich or know rich or powerful people?

[Spazito]

63. According to Massechusetts law, Crowley was REQUIRED, to provide his identification...

in the form of an identification card (not merely verbally giving his name) as soon as Dr. Gates made the request. Crowley did not do so. In effect, Crowley was in breach of his own State's law when he failed to produce his identity card.

CHAPTER 41. OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS


POLICE OFFICERS


Chapter 41: Section 98D. Identification cards


Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing his photograph and the municipal seal. Such card shall be carried on the officer’s person, and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.

Link to Chapter 41: Section 98D:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98d.htm

[Retired AF Dem]

64. And what if Gates set this whole situation up?

Cops loses both ways. 1. Cops wont protect a black mans property. 2. Cops are racist assholes. By your thinking the cops should have not shown up. That would of made you happy. But than they would of been blamed for not protecting a black mans property. Damn I'm glad im not in law enforcement any longer.

[johnaries]

66. "what if Gates set this whole situation up?" ?!?!?!?!?!?

:tinfoilhat:

[seabeyond]

71. made up argument. cop had a call, and had to respond. he did

i have not said a damn thing about him responding to the call. he responded. he asked for id, he said he knew gates belonged in home and cop was done with his job.

please show me where a set up would be for the cop in that. he preformed his job, as required.

if this is how you interpret what people are saying to you, making up a totally bogus story to make a point, then i am glad you are not in law enforcement any more too.

the cop had a call for possible burglary. he identified the man in home belonged there. he did his job

where, .... did i suggest, hint or imply that cop should not have responded to the call.

take some responsibility for your posts

[Caliman73]

40. I agree completely.

When I worked in mental health we were repeatedly trained and told that we were not to retaliate against the clients. If attacked we had to defend and run away. It was exceedingly difficult to do because my instinct at that age had been when someone attacks you or insults you repeatedly, you put them down. Mental health workers, social workers, doctors, police, and other public servants are given a good deal of authority over people's lives. Because of that power imbalance there is an expectation that you will not escalate a situation and that you will be the one who stands down.

Private citizens can act a fool all they want as long as they are not putting the life of the officer or other people in danger. The police officer is the one who caused the disturbance by continuing to engage with Gates. He should have left a card with his information with Gates and proceeded out of the home.

When people wanted to complain against me, I would ask them to calm down, bring them into the office with me, dial the phone to the director or to the Licensing agency that regulated our program, and give them the privacy to make their complaint, because I knew that I was following our best practices and was doing my best to serve that individual. The cop is just covering his ass at this point and relying on the perception of his authority to sway opinion.

[johnaries]

11. Yes, but as I stated it was obvious that Gates was in a frustrated

state before the incident began. Tired from a long trip, frustrated by the stuck door, and then being confronted by the police. Whether his reaction was excusable or not, it should have been expected.

And, again, we don't know what the tone or demeanor of the officer was and whether he contributed to the frustration.

[Sandaasu]

19. We dont' know the tone or demenor of either of them for certain.

That's the problem here, we're not sure what the tone and demeanor of either was. They have conflicting stories, and from what I'm seeing, most people are assuming that one or the other is telling the whole truth. I'm looking at both and seeing where they both admitted faults. The officer's is clear, he went to the point of arresting someone when there was probably a smoother way to handle the situation. Gates' is that he assumed that the cop was acting based upon racial bias, and declined to cooperate immediately and fully because of this. I'd say they both acted inappropriately based upon their own individual accounts of what occurred.

[seabeyond]

21. i am giving the whole truth to the cop, (which i am sure it is not) without taking into account

gates version and still i see three places in the cops situation where it was done and over with and he kept it going, did not do his job, ....

[Sandaasu]

24. I don't think that the cop did things right either, by his own account. So, what's the problem?

[seabeyond]

28. the problem is, the cop is the professional, the cop is trained for this very thing, the cop did

wrong.

it doesnt matter if gates is an ass, stupid, arrogant.

but it does matter if the cop doesnt do his job

[johnaries]

41. True, they both acted inappropriately. HOWEVER

let's consider the 2 parties involved. The professor was a civilian who was tired and frustrated, which should have been obvious to the Officer. The Officer is supposed to be trained to "Serve and Protect" and is expected to de-escalate such situations. Both acted inappropraitely. In Gates' case, whether it is exusable or not it is certainly understandable. In the Officer's case, it is part of his duty to attempt to de-escalate. Rather, when he turned and confronted Gates outside (knowing that Gates was in a frustrated state of mind) instead of dispersing the crowd, he escalated the situation.

[Sandaasu]

47. Is it so hard to admit that Gates likely did things he shouldn't have done?

And as a result, might have technically broken the law. One that shouldn't have been enforced in this case. Going by Gates' account, he didn't break any laws, but he did do something that I find rather disturbing anyway. He racially profiled the cop. He even admits to this. He assumed that the white cop was after him because the cop was white and he was black. If we're going to see things really heal in these ways in this country, everyone needs to stop assuming that everyone who is unlike them in some way is out to get them.

[Howardx]

49. now its reverse racism

all the goodies from the freeper trickbag

[johnaries]

58. Oh, I agree that Gates over-reacted and may have "technically"

broken the law. As you stated, "one that shouldn't have been enforced in this case". My contention is that both over-reacted, but of the two it was the officer's job to "play the bigger man" and not over-react.

Which comes to another point. As you also say, "everyone needs to stop assuming that everyone who is unlike them in some way is out to get them." However, if someone has repeatedly been the victim of racial bias, why would they not make that assumption?

One of the restaurants I used to work at emphasized a study that showed for every single "bad experience" it took 10 "good experiences" to overcome the bad perception. Or, as the old saying goes, "once burnt twice shy". Again, we don't know what the officers demeanor was and if he did do something that could be construed as "racist". Also, we don't know what Gates' personal history was or if he had experienced racism from any previous encounters.

As a "white folk", I think that all us "white folks" should understand that even if we don't have a racist bone in our bodies and we encouter someone who is distrustful, it is most likely because of previous experiences they have had and is probably very understandable for them to be distrustful.

So, the only way that your dream of "everyone needs to stop assuming that everyone who is unlike them in some way is out to get them" can come true is for racism to be completely eradicated. I would love to see that, but I don't see it anytime soon. But I believe it is much more likely if we "white folks" work hard to correct racism in other white folks. And that includes being a little more understanding of those who have grown up exposed to near-constant discrimination and denouncing the "reverse racism" meme.

[rucky]

22. Prideful

they were both using defiance to avoid embarassment.

[johnaries]

30. Good point. That's a strong and distinct possibility. nt

[rucky]

37. Cops should be used to that...

and know how to diffuse the potential escalation of a situation. Instead he added fuel to the fire and continues to do so. I lay the blame squarely on him.

[johnaries]

50. Agreed. That is the point I was trying to make and you did so very succinctly.

Thank you!

[Sandaasu]

33. That is what it seems to boil down to, yes.

[johnaries]

68. Whatever occurred, I just hope now

Gates, Crowley, and Obama sit down and have that beer. What a powerful message that would be!

[TexasObserver]

69. Yes, "To Serve and Protect." About as true as most marketing slogans.

If the police actually did serve and protect, we'd all be much, much happier.

It should be "to self-serve and to protect each other."