"Afghanistan is now Obama's War"

[Stinky The Clown]

Poll question: "Afghanistan is now Obama's War"

[shadowknows69]

1. Good poll Stinky, and I'm not sure I have an answer yet.

Must ponder.

[Oregone]

2. Ponder the latest developments

Death rate, new offensives, and troop escalations

[shadowknows69]

4. I have, don't like any of them.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Consider ......

........ but do not think **any** of what I'll post below as my opinion.

The war was started by Bush. He fucked it up wen he ignored it and redirected everything to Iraq. In the intervening years, whatever gains we made early on were lost ...... except for Mayor Karzai being protected and a few hotels kept open in Kabul. Now that Obama is in, he is calling for action that will end things there.

I am making that case, but do NOT call it my view of the subject. I am simply presenting a prevailing argument that is counter to your view.

[shadowknows69]

8. I absolutely understand and actually applaud his resolve to an extent

I just don't believe that any "surge" or new offensive or committment will ever actually "end things there". Not if, as it has already, it will leave us with a Korea-esqe presense in the region. Permanent bases are no way to try to prove to the world you're not an empire.

[saigon68]

23. His 'Resolve" will end poorly

It is a Bottomless Rat Hole. For money, lives and respect.

His Permanent Puppet the Mayor of Kabul is a laughing stock

God help the NEW Gold Star Mothers. There are soon to be a lot more of them.

[shadowknows69]

26. I fear you're right saigon68

And there aren't too many people, if any, on here whose opinion on such matters I respect more.

[shadowknows69]

3. I'm inclined to vote yes

He is Commander in Chief and he has decided to try to "win" instead of simply withdrawing which all logic and history tells us we should have done, probably right after Tora Bora.

[spanone]

6. any war belongs to the current president unless they end it.....imo

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Not to argue ......

.... but there's still time on the clock. Your statement can only apply to a current president and an inherited war after the president leaves office. Right now today, there is no way to say he will or won't be successful in ending it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. Other: it is OUR war, and we need quality information as to our goals

and purposes for fighting it.

We need a mission statement, which we then can decide on.

Is our mission to destroy Al Queda and the Taliban, and we will leave when that's accomplished?

Is our misison to create democracy in Afghanistan?

Is our mission to secure pipeline routes for US corporations, regardless of who is in power?

If we don't know why we are there, how will we know when we are done?

This is OUR war and WE have to decide why, or if, we fight.

[stray cat]

10. Its our country - our war and we are still picking up the pieces of

Bush's mismanagement. If you were a doctor and a patient with cancer had been mistreated and now the disease was likely to be terminal and you took over the care of the patient. She or he would be your patient but you are not responsible for all that went before because you care for the patient.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. That is an absolutey valid argument

What is happening there now is what is happening. While the outcome is no more or less certain than it has been, at least someone is paying it serious attention.

[Curtland1015]

18. +1... very well put.

It is Obama's war now, but he really can't be held responsible (yet...) for the state of things.

[noamnety]

20. That's true to a degree

but if the cancer patient comes to you with a pack a day smoking habit and lung cancer and your medical advice is that they should increase their smoking to two packs a day ...

[RufusTFirefly]

12. Reminds me of Europe's attitude toward the "elections" of Dubya

I think that many Europeans, although they justifiably feared and detested Bush, were much more forgiving of Americans in general when they realized that the Dim Son cheated his way into office. But in 2004, we had a chance to correct a massive miscarriage of democracy and didn't. And with that, Europeans were a little less forgiving. Fool me once...

Laying waste to an entire country in pursuit of a dialysis-encumbered bogey man and rogue CIA asset is an act of unspeakable violence and supreme international arrogance. But in the heat of the moment immediately after 9/11 it is perhaps understandable that we weren't thinking as clearly as we should have been. But it's 8 years later now and we can see that "war" for what it is. Obama's policy shows we have learned very little in that time.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. A kick to overcome the unrecs

Quite a few anonymous (fucking cowardly) unrecs here

[G_j]

14. now it's OUR war

(we who voted for Obama)

:cry:

[Jack Rabbit]

15. Other: In transition

Soon it will be Obama's war.

The situation may be beyond salvation (Bush's war), but, if that is the case, it would be Obama's responsibility to withdraw. Obama is committed to fighting the Taliban/al Qaida in Afghanistan and Pakistan, making the judgment that the war effort can be salvaged, thus making it his war.

[kiva]

16. It became Obama's war when he chose to expand the troop

level and 'win'- and yes, I know he campaigned on this but it doesn't mean we need to agree with that choice. Iraq=Bush's war.

[GreenArrow]

17. It's America's war.

Obama gets to assume responsibility for it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. It is. In the same way that LBJ's war became Nixon's war.

And, the strategy now is the same. "Peace with honor" in an unwinnable and arguably lost war.

[bvar22]

21. Lets try One More Crusade.

Maybe it will work this time.
Maybe a White, Western, Christian army CAN successfully Occupy & Dominate a Middle Eastern Muslim country. We now have Predator Drones and bigger bombs, so lets give it a try.

I heard that new Multi-Billion Dollar Crusader Castle is quite a peach.
Lets see those nasty "Moslems" topple THAT!
God has decreed that we bring Western Capitalism to the Middle East!
All hail Hamid Karzai and the puppet US Government in Kabul.

As long as there is an American Tank on the streets of Kabul, there will never be a free election.

[Union Yes]

22. It's becoming Obama's 'Nam. The war dead count is on the rise.

[defendandprotect]

24. K&R -- we need more than 24 hours to rec a thread . . .

[Serenades]

25. Go ahead one step

It's true but I would say it's AMERICA'S War. We're not exactly demanding our representatives to leave.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

27. Obama’s war

Obama’s war
17 July 2009

...

A telling indicator of the violence that is being employed against the Afghan people came last week from the US Air Force, which reported that it had dropped 437 bombs on Afghanistan in June. Close-air support missions flown thus far in 2009 by US warplanes had risen to 17,420 by the end of June, the Air Force command reported. This compares to 19,092 for all of 2008.

...

The only reason left for what is now clearly Obama’s war is the real and original one—the utilization of American military might to assert Washington’s dominance over the oil-rich and geo-strategically vital region of Central Asia.

The American military brass is openly lobbying for more troops to accomplish this aim. The implications of these demands were made clear Thursday when Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he is considering a proposal to increase the size of the US Army by 30,000 soldiers in order to relieve the stress caused by the Afghanistan buildup and the continued US occupation of Iraq.

There could be no clearer indictment of the Obama administration. Brought into office on a wave of antiwar sentiment, his administration is preparing to expand the US military in order to prosecute a dirty and protracted colonial war. Meanwhile, the country’s top military commanders exert their considerable influence over the government even more directly and openly than under the Bush administration.

...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/pers-j17.shtml

[MadMaddie]

28. He didn't start it but it his war to now clean up and end.

If * would have kept the troop levels high and went in and cleaned out the Taliban and OBL we would have been out. That didn't happen and we have a mess....

Now having said that and understanding the Afghanastan region no invader has ever won, Russia got their asses handed to them by the Taliban because the US armed and trained OBL. Guess in hindsite that wasn't such a smart move but I never really hear anyone talking about that too much.