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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 09:54 AM Original message |
The current Healthcare Bill HAS BEEN created and approved by several of the Progressives |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
1. Don't bother. The "everything or nothing" crowd can't be talked to. |
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WI_DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
2. I truly believe Obama will succeed where Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton failed |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:42 AM Response to Reply #2 |
34. It is a terrible bill, supported mainly by a massive new tax on the uninsured. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #34 |
49. It is supported by a massive new tax on the rich. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:53 AM Response to Reply #49 |
51. And the uninsured get hit with a whopping, new 12% of gross tax increase. |
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eomer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:58 AM Response to Reply #51 |
103. Can you help me understand what you're saying? |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #103 |
111. Your correction is warranted. Mia culpa. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
3. What about the "centrist" "Democrats" pledge to block a decent bill in committee? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:02 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. That is a separate issue. I would like to correct anyone who believes this bill isn't progressive. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:05 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. How is it separate? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:01 AM Response to Original message |
4. But that doesn't make it "progressive" on its own |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:04 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. As I stated in another response, you aren't going to jump directly to Single Payer... |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:08 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. "without causing more problems than you solve" |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:11 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Why don't you ask the Progressives your silly question if you don't like hearing the answer from me. |
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Tuesday Afternoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:13 AM Response to Reply #11 |
15. Looking for the question.... |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:13 AM Response to Reply #11 |
16. Id love to hear the answer from you. By consolidating insurance entities to 1, why would that create |
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Tuesday Afternoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:15 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. ok...now I see a question... |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #16 |
29. There are both practical and political issues |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:41 AM Response to Reply #29 |
33. "there is a real infrastructure issue here that will take time to implement" |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:48 AM Response to Reply #33 |
36. Accounting, case-management, billing all will need to be handled. Medicare was not designed |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:55 AM Response to Reply #36 |
41. Now, you do realize why Canada has an administrative overhead of 1.3%? Right? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:29 AM Response to Reply #41 |
46. You do realize Canada has < 10% the population of the US |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:43 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. And divide that up further |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:56 AM Response to Reply #33 |
53. The political problem is an insurmountable practical problem. n/t |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:59 AM Response to Reply #53 |
56. I agree, yet the poster only spent 1 short sentence on that |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:28 PM Response to Reply #56 |
75. There is nothing else to say on the political issue. A Single Payer system will never pass. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:30 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. That's right. "won't happen". Full stop. n/t |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:33 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. That's just it with you Single Payer purists. Why do you think the Progressives are supportive |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:58 PM Response to Reply #80 |
93. "It's because it is how we get to single payer" |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. I never said "everyone would never vote to pass single-payer"... |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 04:28 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. Yeah, but they will support something that will lead to it. Riiiiight. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:06 PM Response to Reply #11 |
115. I did. I called Representative Woolsey's office today. |
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RaleighNCDUer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #6 |
27. Why not? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. Pretty much. I haven't heard a reason otherwise yet |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #28 |
83. So, you've ignored every post that says it will never pass, or.. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #83 |
90. If it can pass elsewhere, why not the US? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
7. I want to know more about the 5,000 up to 10,000 out of pocket.. Here are Medicare figures |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:10 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. It's a good question I don't have an answer for about Medicare |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:13 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. Rahm's brother, Zeke, wants to phase out Medicare. He's got power |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:04 PM Response to Reply #10 |
116. You will pay 5 or 10k out of pocket for what is now being called "cost sharing" |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:12 AM Response to Reply #7 |
13. Yeah, these cost-sharings are sort of what has my head spinning |
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liskddksil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:11 AM Response to Original message |
12. Yes its a pretty good bill right now |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:14 AM Response to Reply #12 |
17. What about the up to 10,000 co pay and deductible? |
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WI_DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:17 AM Response to Reply #17 |
19. I agree that is way too high for many people to afford. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:17 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. The poor won't pay anywhere close to 10k. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:18 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Why not extend Medicare? Why do away with it? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:27 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. It will cause more problems than it solves. Private industry does the job better than public |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:29 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. Disagree. The public plan structure is already in place. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #25 |
30. Well, Im only speaking out of my ass and repeating talking points |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
22. Mandatory, for--profit health insurance is NOT Progressive. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:25 AM Response to Reply #22 |
23. Good thing the bill doesn't make For-Profit Insurance mandatory! |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:40 AM Response to Reply #23 |
32. Since you imply that you have read the bill in its entirety, please answer my question: |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Answers: |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:49 AM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Link, please? Citations are required when one appeals to Legal Code for authority. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:51 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. You can read the summary that I posted yesterday. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:56 AM Response to Reply #39 |
42. A summary is merely your representation of the source material. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:56 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. As I said, I provided links yesterday. Go follow them. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:06 AM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Just read "Subtitle B—Public Health 2 Insurance Option" of the actual bill |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:08 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Keep reading, it's a big bill. This may help you |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:40 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. You're either misunderstanding what you're reading, or purposefully misrepresenting it. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:55 AM Response to Reply #47 |
52. Here. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. Right. So eligibility to participate in the Exchange is not equivalent to Public Option eligibility |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #57 |
63. Is there really, really, small print between the lines that I cannot see? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:22 PM Response to Reply #63 |
68. Don't bother with that person. They are not interested in the truth, but in saying what they want |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. I spent a good hour reading the bill and discussing its text with you. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. PS Still waiting for ANY quotation from the bill explaining eligbility for the Public Option. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:22 PM Response to Reply #63 |
69. If you want to join a subthread, please read the posts above your own. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:27 PM Response to Reply #69 |
74. The bill says what it says. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:33 PM Response to Reply #74 |
79. No offense, but that is not how either legal construction or politics work. |
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kath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:53 AM Response to Reply #35 |
50. "to be fair to local market prices" - which will be set by the fucking INSURANCE COMPANIES. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:57 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. At monopoly, captive market rates no less! nt |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 11:59 AM Response to Reply #50 |
55. No, the premiums are set by the government-run exchange. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:04 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. Based on WHAT exactly? Not supply and demand; everyone is compelled to purchase. |
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kath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. Well, it sure looks like that's what they're planning. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #61 |
65. Precisely. Which is why supporters don't want to talk about (not for profit) Public Option |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #65 |
72. Yes, and "If" pigs fly, that compounds the confusion. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. Please cite the PRECISE language defining Public Option eligibility in the bill. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:31 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. It's not up to me to prove a negative. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:37 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. You are asserting the presence of a liberal eligibility for the Public Option |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. And you're claiming a means test for eligibility based on a absence of evidence. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:59 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. It's been part of several earlier proposals. The present bill punts on the issue. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 02:16 PM Response to Reply #86 |
95. The bill doesn't punt, and it's not silent on the issue. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 04:00 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. Please cite the PRECISE language defining Public Option eligibility in the bill. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 04:33 PM Response to Reply #97 |
99. teach your pony a new trick. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:55 AM Response to Reply #99 |
104. You're admitting that Public Option eligibility is limited in another thread. (Link provided) |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:44 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Your belief is that the public option will be means tested, |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:02 PM Response to Reply #82 |
88. PS: I've noticed you didn't respond to the confusion about "cost" vs. "price". |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. Because there's no confusion. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 03:59 PM Response to Reply #89 |
96. Yes, there obviously is some confusion still. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:12 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Based on regional cost. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:17 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. You mean cost + *some* percentage as profit, surely. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:52 PM Response to Reply #35 |
85. But the public option will not be open to all employers to offer immediately |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:00 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Those already insured through their employers are not those most suffering. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. Some employers - even large ones can have really crappy health insurance |
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kath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:09 PM Response to Reply #91 |
102. "if your preventative test (i.e. routine pap, screening mammogram) comes back odd - then it's no |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
26. If knew more what were talking about |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #26 |
58. you're doing it wrong. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:38 AM Response to Original message |
31. If what you say is true, that is tragic. |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:50 AM Response to Original message |
38. As long as there is a public option, I will take it. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:03 PM Response to Reply #38 |
59. Absolutely correct. n/t |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:23 PM Response to Reply #59 |
70. The righties are shitting themselves. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #70 |
84. I'm still amazed that people here can't see the forest for the trees on this. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 05:00 PM Response to Reply #84 |
100. perhaps they live in mass. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 05:10 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Hear, hear! n/t |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 10:53 AM Response to Original message |
40. Ok wait a goddam minute... |
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cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:08 PM Response to Reply #40 |
62. "measures to prevent a future Republican President"... |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Does anyone have any plans which preclude future governments from making changes? No? |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-16-09 01:55 PM Response to Original message |
92. K & R It does look pretty good |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
105. "'Public Option' Would Only Be Available To The Otherwise Uninsured" |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:53 PM Response to Reply #105 |
107. It's bad form to hide your replies to me. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:11 PM Response to Reply #107 |
108. You're arguing out of both sides of your mouth (with links, quotes) |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #108 |
112. You simply have a reading challenge. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 04:06 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. "the public plan can't turn away customers for any reasons..." |
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Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
109. It's amazing |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:18 PM Response to Original message |
110. Well, thanks for trying. (nt) |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #110 |
113. is it over? |
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