So, I need 5,000$ in dental work, have private dental insurance, and will have to pay 5,000$.

[usregimechange]

Apparently my anterior crossbite (front teeth that do not fit together properly) is causing my back teeth to wear excessively. My parents were poor and never able to pay for this when I was a child. The dentist is recommending Invisalign braces for 1.5 years so that I do not have to spend twice that or more on crowns. The good news is that I have private dental and health insurance through my employer. I pay into these plans every month.

The bad news.

My dental plan does not cover any of the recommended treatment.

Tell me again why I pay for private insurance.

[lindisfarne]

1. Your private insurance probably states this isn't covered. You probably don't really need this.

I had a dentist tell me something similar but when I pressed - does it really matter - he said no.

Get another opinion.

Most private dental insurance doesn't cover this sort of thing. Read your brochure carefully. It also often covers things like root canals & crowns up to a certain $ amount (often low) and only at a certain percentage. And often, there's a fairly low annual limit.

[REP]

2. I have insurance; it covered what needed to be done; still paid additional $5K

My teeth were worse than what is allowed for a year. We had an idea, though, and were prepared. Not my dentist's fault. Dental insurance - even "good" coverage - is weak.

[Stephanie]

11. Was your idea to have half the work in December and the rest in January? n/t

[REP]

14. Nope.

Years of poverty + bad genes = a lot of work that couldn't wait any longer. As soon as I was on my husband's policy, the drilling, canaling, pulling, crowning and filling commenced! The bridge waited until next policy term.

[Demobrat]

3. So go for the crowns.

Or at least price them out. If the insurance pays for those (it paid for 50% of mine) it may work out to a wash financially. Then you can make your decision based on what you really prefer to do, rather than money.

[Ilsa]

38. I have some crowns, and they are beautiful, but straight teeth in proper

alignment are better, IMO. I would always go with the least "destructive" method of making an improvement if possible. And chances are, the dental insurance won't pay for all of the crowns, either. I would do braces before crowns.

As a matter of fact, I had to pay for my braces from age 24-26 also because the dental insurance said straightening at my age was cosmetic. It probably allowed me to keep my teeth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. My dentist has a pamphlet in his office

WHY DENTAL INSURANCE ISN'T REALLY INSURANCE

I laugh every time I see it.

[Raine1967]

17. +1

[WillieW]

5. Get a statement from the dentist "necessary to maintain health"

[MadMaddie]

6. Does your insurance cover the regular metal braces?

If so go old school, my partner has them and they are fine.

Good Luck!

[usregimechange]

8. Nope.

[BeHereNow]

7. Been there, done that- I can relate.

It's all such a charade.
Get a second opinion.
BHN

[Goddess me]

30. I agree

I have had the same dentist for over 20 years. He always tells me the truth. He says that most dental practices lie to their patients just for the money. I am unemployed and have no insurance. A tooth broke and I went to see him anyway. He only charged me $100 for a check up, a cleaning and x rays! He told me not to worry about anything right now. He gave me an antibiotic just in case something happens. I love this man.

[BeHereNow]

32. Welcome to DU!!!!

You've found a gem of a dental doc!
Damned hard to do these days...
BHN

[Goddess me]

34. I was lucky

He is a gentle, kind man. His wife use to catch babies, so he is totally into women's issues too. I can talk to him about everything that happens in my life, and he understands me. I don't know what I will do if I ever have to move or he retires!

[alfredo]

53. Same here. Our dentist had a heart attack a few weeks ago. She was back

today and finished replacing a crown for my wife. I was one of her first customers when she opened her first office behind where I worked. It's been 30 years.

[Sabriel]

9. Sounds familiar

We have supplemental dental and it covers... not much. Certainly not orthodontics, which both kids will need eventually, due to teeth coming in perpendicular to their gums. Major $$ damage. But whaddya gonna do?

[Bobbieo]

10. Too bad you are not closer to Mexico - There are some excellent dentists

in the Mexican border towns. I have one and I swear he is better then the one I had in the US -

[Sabriel]

13. One of my relatives goes to Mexico

He swears by it. And he has no dental insurance.

But he lives in San Diego, and I'm in the armpit of Wisconsin, so....

[Withywindle]

40. That's what I'm going to do when (if) I get another job.

I know I need a lot of work done. But I am not willing to pay the ripoff insurance companies one cent more for this. I'd rather save up the cash, have a vacation in Mexico, and get it done there. The care is just as good, and none of my money goes to the insurance parasites.

[travelingtypist]

12. I have no insurance.

Self-employed, can't afford it.

About two years ago I spent $10K to have all of my teeth pulled and plates made.
(I was 42 at the time.) It was worth every penny. Before the work, I had a
chipped front tooth, I had ear infections all the time and was in constant pain.
Now I just have to worry about lousy adhesives.

Look on the bright side -- your teeth are still healthy enough for you to keep
them.

[femmocrat]

15. How about getting a second opinion?

I've had dentists who want to do all kinds of work, too. I have dental insurance, but it would not cover adult orthodontics. I found a different dentist who only does what I absolutely need. I had several crowns put on... and have had no problems.

Good luck! :hi:

[skipos]

16. By the way, I was really impressed with invisalign

My friend got it and it worked surprisingly well.

[Speck Tater]

18. Hey, this is AMERICA! How many teeth does it take to eat a peanut butter sandwich anyway?

Think how much better off we are than those toothless children in places like Bangladesh. Now get down on your knees and thank God you live in an advanced country where our health care system in in the top 100 or so in the world. Yeah! We're number 47! (or 52, or something like that). (Why do you libruls all hate America?)

:sarcasm:

[usregimechange]

19. Now that was funny!

[demosincebirth]

20. Thats the kind of insurance the republicans want you to have...

When I was working, we had complete med and dental care with no premiums or co-pay. I also had four kids. Thank God for unions!

[Historic NY]

23. warning its their plan..

[Goddess me]

42. OMG

This is real!:think:

[Lagomorph]

21. This is what has me concerned about health care.

If we make insurance mandatory, do they still get to pick what they'll cover?

Will we, ourselves, be excluded while paying for others?

[Gwendolyn]

25. Why would you be excluded from care that others get?

That's just silly. Besides, this is about dental, not health care. I can't think of any country that includes full dental as part of socialized health care. Separate issues.

[Lagomorph]

28. Just looking at the current model.

"The Medicare program does not cover most routine dental services.
The Medicare law clearly excludes coverage “for services in connection
with the care, treatment, filling, removal or replacement of teeth or
structures directly supporting teeth” and dentists may not be required to
submit Medicare claims for such services.

• For people with Medicare, this means that Medicare will not pay for most
routine dental care, such as fillings, cleanings, x-rays, and dentures, even
if those services are performed in a hospital. Payment for most dental
care is your responsibility."

[Gwendolyn]

31. Yes, exactly. But you seem to be confusing health care with dental care.

Even in single payer countries the two are separate and individuals are required to purchase their own dental care insurance on top of what they are taxed for health care. If there is coverage under the national plan, it basically consists of free pulling of all your festering teeth so you can go around gumming stuff for the rest of your life. Anything beyond that you pay out of pocket. Not sure what your beef is? Are you advocating for full on dental to be included with health care? If so, doubt that would happen.

[Occulus]

35. But dental care IS health care.

edit: you said: "Yes, exactly. But you seem to be confusing health care with dental care."

There isn't any separation. Direct links have been seen in some recent oral health studies between gum disease and the health of the heart. Dental care should not be set apart from overall health care. Rotten teeth can lead to serious and even life-threatening oral infections. I've seen this firsthand with my roommate.

He got his teeth pulled (yes, all of them), and the infections stopped immediately. These would have eventually killed him. He now uses dentures.

I don't know how we got this silly idea implanted into our national mindset. Dental care IS part of overall health care, and should be treated that way. Also note, a great many HMOs and other health insurance companies have separate plans for dental care.

They're double-dipping, and they know it. Why else would they go to such great lengths in order to make you think that dental care is "something other" than health care?

Follow the money. This illogical and IMO dangerous separation between health care and dental care is related entirely to profit.

[Lagomorph]

45. Sometimes...

...hearing and vision care are not covered, as well.

So three of your five senses could be excluded from your mandatory health insurance policy.

I'd just like to see some standards of care implemented, before I get all warm and fuzzy about national health care.

[Gwendolyn]

56. Philosophically yes, of course it is.

I understand that. And yeah, bad teeth can take years off your life.

I just can't think of any country that covers eyes and teeth in their health care systems. It's usually some kind of add-on. I'm not sure why that is as well but it seems to be the case.

[hamsterjill]

61. Absolutely correct!!!

I have health insurance, but do not have dental insurance. I work for a small business.

I have spent massive amounts on dental issues and still have some issues that need to be addressed, but I put them off as long as I can due to the cost factor.

The BODY should be covered under one insurance policy because if one system within the BODY fails, it affects the whole. The issue of a separation of your teeth from the rest of your anatomy is a ridulous way for the insurance carriers to pad the bottom line.

[JerseygirlCT]

66. Completely agree

the separation is all about money, and not in the least about health.

[asjr]

22. My two granddaughters both need braces

and they probably will have to go to the workhouse and get jobs as scullery maids to pay for it.

[Warpy]

24. Dental insurance is one of the biggest scams going

and covers very, very little that people in real life actually need, and generally covers heroics less expensive procedures would have prevented. I'll bet a careful reading of your policy would probably say they'd pay for the crowns 5 years from now after 5 years of dental pain.

The Invisalign braces seem like a wonderful way to go, but the old fashioned kind might be cheaper. Check into it if you'll have trouble coming up with the $5000, but go for the Invisalign if you're OK with it.

Good luck. There's little worse than a mouthful of bad teeth.

[rurallib]

26. Any where near a dental school? If so I would check to see if

they could do the work for about 1/3 or less. May take more time, but you'll be helping a student (+ saving some bucks)

[lindisfarne]

37. Depends on dental school. At some, you might save 25%, and you spend at least 2x the time there.n/t

[TheMadMonk]

27. Go to a bar. Make a move on a bloke's girl. You're covered. nt

[TatonkaJames]

29. In the same boat

We have great insurance from our company, yet their dental plan is useless.
I'm in the process of having the same done right now, however this is just the start.
After the braces come of, which are to align my bite for the same reason, I have to get three
implants and then after 14 veneers. The braces have been on for almost a year now and the work after
will take at least three years more. All out of pocket. Serious money, all told, about $75 large.
Oh, I forgot about the particulate bone augmentation I needed to build up one side of the upper jaw for
an implant to work.
As for the Invisalign braces, I got the old style ones as they do a better and faster job of it and cost a bit less.
All this after I went to two a-holes in NJ who pulled teeth, put in implants three weeks later against my wishes, I researched
the process and said they should heal for at least 6 months before placing them and was told that was not the case. Well, I went to
the NJDA and got my money back. I could have sued but I don't believe in that, so I went the polite way and the system worked for me.
If you need any advice, just send an email, I'd be glad to help. I have a 4 DDS team in NY who work on the rich and famous. I was shown
pics of celebs, CEO's & others, many fly in from over seas just for these guys.
Hope it works out for you.

[RB TexLa]

33. Orthodontics, not covered by any dental plan. Dental is already the most

abused insurance product on the L and H side. People buy it get something fixed and drop it, would be much worse with orthodontics covered. You can find some with a rider for it but very few.

[Boddingham]

36. Welcome to full blown corporate fascism.

I am sorry to see it.

[upi402]

39. Yep, I can't afford the co-pay and will have no insurance soon

for the 1st time in my life.
Senator Cantwell, "Democrat", is against our family having medical care. Should I vote for a "Democrat" like that?


NO

HELL NO

[Liberal_in_LA]

41. regular braces are cheaper than invisalign. They work faster also

[tammywammy]

54. Yes, that's what I was going to post

I went to this dentist once (I mean, to this specific dentist once) and he was saying I needed braces (which I had as a teenager) because my bottom teeth are slightly crooked (not enough to bother me, or even be really noticeable). Anywho, he was recommending Invisalign which were A LOT more cost-wise than just regular braces AND they took longer. I didn't go back to him, because I didn't think braces were necessary, and surprise my new dentist said that they're not unless I really wanted them.

[ladywnch]

43. I have a similar story.

I've had several lower teeth pulled on both sides of my mouth bordered by crowned teeth. My dentist and the oral surgeon who pulled the bad root canal out think I should have a dental implant with a 2 tooth crown. The insurance company will not pay for it (it is not the standard of care in this case). They want the dentist to pull the healthy crowns off the unaffected teeth and put a 4 tooth bridge in.......which will cost far more money and possibly do damage to the teeth getting the crowns ripped off.......MORE money and possible additional unnecessary damage......WWWWHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYY??!?!?!!!!!!

The oral surgeon has appealed and the insurance company is past due in its response.

But we don't need reform!!!!!!

[truedelphi]

44. What an awful situation. Arghh.

Sorry to hear about this.

[cabluedem]

47. Never allow them to ruin a good tooth to bridge it. Itll always be a mistake youll regret. nt

[ladywnch]

52. it is the only thing they will pay for so

it is either a bridge or stay 4 teeth short on the bottom. I don't have 3K for the implant and crowns.. Hopefully the appeal will work.

[western mass]

46. Wisdom teeth removed. Insurance wouldn't cover anasthetic.

Ah, good old US health insurance. That was $400 out of pocket for general anasthetic, which apparently is a non-essential item for serious oral surgery.

[hippywife]

48. Orthodontia not covered under my dental policy, either. n/t

[cbdo2007]

49. so go buy a different plan that covers it and in 6 months get the work done.

[Xithras]

50. My dental insurance covered $1800 of my $10k implants. Also, get a second opinion

They didn't cover the implants at all, but did cover some of the procedures surrounding their implantation. Apparently having my front teeth permanently replaced, when they were broken as a child, ranked as "cosmetic" in their book. At 35, they thought I should just use a denture.

Also, make sure that you get a second opinion from an orthodontist with a competing price. Dentists will often simply recommend the treatments they happen to have available in their office, knowing that few people get second opinions. I've personally heard a lot of bad opinions about the Invisalign system being overpriced, requiring unusually long treatment times, and frequently not making the alterations they were originally placed for.

My wifes old dentist recommended that she get Invisalign for a bite problem about two years ago and tried to push her into signing the treatment papers on the spot. Since my daughter sees an orthodontist for her braces, my wife asked him for a second opinion. He confirmed a slight issue, but told her that it was so minor he'd never even consider recommending treatment to one of his patients. He then suggested she see another ortho to confirm.

Her teeth are fine, we didn't spend the money, and she now has a new dentist.

Remember, dentists make far more money from specialty treatments than they do with checkups and cleanings. Even if you do end up needing to have your teeth corrected, you're far better off (and usually get better prices) by seeing an orthodontist who specializes in that sort of equipment, instead of having your regular dentist do it, who only practices orthodontia on the side.

[librechik]

51. Wait--don't you have to pay them on top of the $5,000

just for the privilege of being told to go fuck yourself while watching them fondle your premiums?

My plan does.

[Wakingupnow]

55. Here a goes a dentist with 40 years' experience who does braces

puttin' in his 2 cents! today was special for me--marked the 40th anniversary of starting my practice--the day that apollo 11 blasted off for the moon. it's been quite a ride, and orthodontia has been a part of it. Straight teeth are not only more attractive but better in function. Invisalign came along and has attracted dentists who want to add more productivity to their practices, BUT it is NOT a panacea by any means! Laboratory costs are significant, and this becomes part of the quoted fees. Teeth are crooked more because there is "too little mouth for the teeth" than because of " too many teeth for the mouth." This is the result of the deterioration in our food quality and air quality (yes, airway, swallowing play a part in face and jaw development). We use removable appliances ("retainers" with expansion screws) that widen dental arches creating space for teeth to line up. Then attached braces OR aligners similar to Invisalign can be used to line up the teeth.

Orthodontics is so valuable but NOT essential. It does require an investment in time, energy, and money, and our feeling is that the benefits are much more valuable than the money invested, and WE DON'T RECOMMEND BEGINNING TREATMENT unless the perceived value is there. Payments are divided among the months of active treatment, and an average monthly payment of $150 is fairly common with a start-up fee ( for analysis and initial appliances ).

RE: dental insurance--the post above calls out the dental insurance issues. It is not "insurance" but rather a "pre-paid partial reimbursement" plan. Many plans have no orthodontic coverage for adults and, if the plan has coverage, it is almost always limited to $1000-#1500 total reimbursement, regardless of the cost of treatment. Want to blame someone, blame the corporate insurance plans that are in business to keep enough of the premiums paid to cover administrative costs, pay salaries, and of course, make sure that CEOs can afford their "perks". If you can purchase a plan that costs, say, $20-40 a month but has an orthodontic benefit that covers 30-40% of an orthodontic treatment program, that can be a bargain and a good investment.

Fees vary from one part of the country to another, too. fees on the coasts are higher than in the midsection and fees generally lower asyou go further south. For people near Central Kentucky (where we are), we accept new patients, work to help people max out their insiurance plan IF they have an orthodontic benefit and truly enjoy helping to create healthy nice-looking smiles;-)

[usregimechange]

57. Thank you very much, good information

[NashVegas]

67. Not Everyone Is As Ethical

I'm guessing that when you graduated, it wasn't as typical to be saddled with hundreds of thousands in debt.

When I got braces in the late 1970s, the total cost was under $1000 and we thought that was a LOT. It was money well spent though; my teeth were, as my ortho put it, "all over my face."

[Missy Vixen]

58. I have something similar

Open bite and non-aligning teeth. I still have the "snaggle" things on top and bottom teeth as a result; it's a bit weird.

It's braces, then surgery for me, complete with wiring my jaw for six weeks. We have dental insurance, which covers none of it. We don't have $40K, and I'm in my late forties. I'm wondering to myself if it's better to just get the crowns. They're cheaper.

:scared:

[usregimechange]

59. Best wishes to you

I wish we had a better system, still not sure what I am going to do.

[Wakingupnow]

60. watch out about breaking and rewiring the jaw.

as the "2 cent giving" dentist,i'd say be careful about surgically repositioning the jaw with "orthognathic" surgery. Do you know that the bones of the skull move? The brain pumps CS fluid from down in the spinal cord up inside the skull, contracts and pumps some of the fluid out into the general fluid throughout the body, and repeats about 10-15 times a minue as long as you're alive. the 26 bones of the skull (which articulate along 122 bony sutures!). are like a very exquisite mechanism (really makes it hard to think that the human body developed as a series of random "accidents" right?

When jaw segments are surgically fractured and reassembled, it might look better, but how does it work? Imagine having a roll-top desk with some misalignment of the segments of the roll top. Now imagine, like a "handyman" guy might do, and take the top apart and glue it back together so it looks all purty and stuff (like folks in kentucky like to do! :dunce: The desk might look better but what happens when you try to open the desk?! :nuke:

Why is there an open bite and crossbite? as the twig is bent, so grows the tree. The bones around the jaws and the teeth are influenced by function which includes breathing patterns and swallowing. If we only swallow 1200-1500 times a day, :sarcasm: can you see how the growing jaws can be affected? move the teeth with braces or reposition jaw segments with surgery and leave the functional environment unchanged might make as much sense as building an oceanfront beach house down in the tidal plane (you know lay out the foundation at low tide) and then cry when the house washes away at high tide. if you have an open bite, look in a mirror, swallow and pull open your lips when ur swallowing; i'll bet you'll see the tongue sticking out between the teeth. as long as that pattern persists, how stable and/or comfortable do you think the proposed results will be. locked up roll top desk anyone? :banghead:

without seeing, crowns could be better, but that's the opinion of a 60-something year-old dentist who's been told he has "unusual" ideas over the years ::eyes:

[Missy Vixen]

64. I only wish I lived in your neighborhood

I wasn't crazy about this procedure to begin with; your comments make me think that if we were in the position to do this, I'd definitely be looking for a second opinion.

Let's face it, I'm not a fashion model, but everything works. Maybe it's best left that way. ;-)

Thank you so much for your comments!

[mnhtnbb]

62. Belize for dental work. Seriously. I can put you in touch with

former Californians who've been living there since mid 80's and now run tour groups to Belize for
people thinking of relocating. They have all the health care options figured out--including surgeries
in Mexico.

[dionysus]

63. it's unfortunate, but probably not covered because it's "elective"

[Goblinmonger]

65. If you end up having to pay for it out of pocket

make sure to check into your flex plan options so you can pay for it pre-tax. Did that with both of my children's braces.

[NashVegas]

68. Go For A Second Opinion

Look for an older dentist, less likely to be treading water trying to pay off college loans.

[Javaman]

69. Try and locate a dental school near you.

I'm currently in the process of getting two implants.

in the outside world it would cost me about 6 to 7 grand.

At the school I'm paying 1200.

They do fantastic work. the only drawback is time. they take a lot longer.

I haven't been to a regular dentist in years, I get all my work done at the school.