If There Is No Public Health Option Will You Still Vote Democrat?

[heppcatt]

Just curious.
The position that the Dem's are in leaves no one to blame but them.
If there is no public option in any reform package.

If not i will not vote Democrat next election.

Just to add I'm not saying i will vote Republican my view's are progressive.
Maybe just not vote?

[BlooInBloo]

1. Welcome. I hope you enjoy your visit.

[heppcatt]

30. ?

wrong spot for post

[nc4bo]

99. If There Is No Public Health Option Will You Still Vote Democrat? Hmmm...

Shouldn't that read: If There Is No Public Health Option Will You Still Vote DemocratIC.

Not to be nitpicky but shouldn't you be voting DemocratIC?

You're already a Republican ain't cha? Come on, you can admit it :rofl:

[Soylent Brice]

105. excellent observation.

[countingbluecars]

2. Most likely. n/t

[ecstatic]

3. welcome to DU! nt

[Taverner]

4. It depends on which and where

Which race?

[msongs]

5. sad situation is it not. nt

[Uben]

6. How else you gonna vote?

Republican? Might as well just go to hell now!

[niceypoo]

76. The republicans control the democrats

All the republicans have to do is jump up and down and scream and they get whatever they want.

Vote Costa Rican or Canadian

[DaLittle Kitty]

96. Start Looking For Solid Progressive INDEPENDENTS!

:)

[Stellabella]

7. Yes. I still agree with the vast majority of the Democratic platform.

And disagree 100% with repukes and most of the Independent platform.

[Uzybone]

8. as opposed to vote Republican?

[Mojorabbit]

36. or not vote at all?

Sometimes I want to give the whole thing up and live my live in oblivious bliss like so many people I know. It gets so damn depressing. All this work to get where we are now with Dems in charge....I hope we are not let down. I am having one of those days.

[Winterblues]

107. My sentiments exactly.

Sometimes I feel like I have been played for the fool. It is still pretty early in this new Democratic Administration but I have felt far more disappointment than joy to date. If things don't turn around some by the next election I will probably just opt out and forget about voting except in very local elections..

[eleny]

9. Yes, absolutely

[lindisfarne]

10. Welcome, if you're politically on the left end of the spectrum!n/t

[sendero]

11. Probably...

... but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that voting is pointless, we get basically the same shit either way.

Yeah, Obama probably won't start any pointless wars, but other than that it is hard to see why I would care that he's president. He talks a good game but his actions are lackluster at best.

[babylonsister]

12. Like you probably didn't vote Dem in the last election. Please help

me out here. What public health option have the rethugs introduced, ever? :popcorn:

[cascadiance]

13. I will vote for progressive polticians!!

If they are a Democrat (or in the DemocratIC(!!) Party), so be it.

But if they are corporatists that need to be outed, I will vote against them in the primaries, and if they survive that, and there are good non-Republican progressive alternatives, then I'll vote for the alternatives.

I have nothing against what the Democratic Party has been per se, but I DO have a problem with the DLC/Blue Dog faction that has been hijacking it which need to be pushed out like the cancerous tumors they are! I don't consider them real Democrats, but just a step below pod people!

[Skittles]

14. well I certainly will never vote repuke

[WeDidIt]

15. Nope, never again. n/t

[harun]

16. No, I will not support them.

[angrycarpenter]

17. Well I damn sure ain't voting for the monsters who kill it,

If that's what you mean. If this fails it will be the republicans, the blue dogs and the medical lobby who are responsible and they will earn my eternal rage. Also, I see a troll.

[heppcatt]

18. I wouldn't vote Republican

Maybe green party.
I still would also vote Democrat if the person was a real progressive (Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold type)

[ecstatic]

21. That worked out PERFECTLY in 2000, wouldn't you say?

Sometimes you truly do have to go with the lesser "evil."

[WeDidIt]

26. I've changed my mind about "lesser evils"

I figure the greater evil is better. Let 'em fuck things up enough to push things the other way. Then we stand a chance of gettin "not evil".

[ecstatic]

28. Tell that to the millions who are unemployed,

or the millions dead. That approach does NOT work.

[WeDidIt]

33. Driving off a cliff at 100 mph vs. driving off at 99.9 mph gets you to the same place

albeit unnoticably slower.

[Better Believe It]

74. I like jumping from the pot into the frying pan. What's the problem with that?

:)

[Selatius]

42. That approach tends to happen historically, although not in as direct a manner.

Societies generally do not change their courses radically or voluntarily until something forces them to change or rethink their ways. The Great Depression was a prime example. It's a fair argument to make that had it not been for the Great Depression, FDR likely never would've become president, and his New Deal would not have been created in the form we know of today. This is not saying that people intentionally voted for Hoover in order to get FDR; that's absurd.

The theme is present enough throughout history that there is a quotation apocryphally attributed to V.I. Lenin that says, "The worse, the better," as a way of explaining how movements can take advantage of the anger and resentment in a population by waiting for the anger to boil over. At that point, the vanguard reveals itself and says that it has the solution to the problem that plagues the people and makes them miserable. Of course, the most obvious way anger boils over is that conditions get so harsh that people have little else to do.

[patrice]

84. It's posts like this that make me wish we still had that individual post rating system we tried for

a short while.

[Telly Savalas]

88. What forced LBJ's Great Society?

Am I overlooking the boiling-over point which occurred in 1965?

[DireStrike]

61. I think massive unrest is required for real change

Until then we will limp along in slow decline.

[BzaDem]

94. Nah, usually the opposite happens.

It is much easier to get votes from the middle than it is to get votes from irrational people who claim to be Democrats but don't vote Democratic. So the more people like you who cut off your nose to spite your face, the more centrist the candidate gets to make up for it.

But feel free to continue to think your irrational tactics can actually influence candidates :)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. I would be disappointed but would still vote DemocratIC

rather than vote Republican.

[Fire1]

20. Yes, I certainly will.

[BzaDem]

22. This thread should be very useful for the moderators. n/t

[likesmountains 52]

23. Try saying Democratic...

[I Have A Dream]

35. I wsa surprised that I received a sign from the Dems in 2004...

that said "Vote Democrat". I thought that it should say "Vote Democratic". Now I'm much less likely to call someone out for saying "vote Democrat" since official party material had it worded this way. However, "Democrat candidate" still pisses me off. x(

[WeDidIt]

38. I have always voted for Democrats

which is to say, I have always voted Democratic.

[DireStrike]

62. Another way in which the official party FAILS

How blindly stupid do they have to be to not realize what's going on with that, and work on the official stance? ...Or, have an official stance?

[Selatius]

24. A lot of Democrats stayed home after FMLA and NAFTA were passed into law.

Quite a few voters were upset that the largest component the Family Medical Leave Act was missing was the paid maternity/family leave clause. That was not included in the final bill, despite the fact that all industrialized nations of the world have paid maternity/family leave clause.

Quite a few voters were also upset that NAFTA did not include provisions to protect labor as well as the environment. Labor conditions in Mexico compared to the US were sub-par. There were weaker environmental regulations in place in Mexico as well. This meant corporations inside the US would not have to spend as much money to be in compliance with the laws in Mexico compared to the laws in the US.

I predict if the people are unhappy with what the final bill looks like, they will simply stay home, like they did in 1994.

In 1994, the Republicans ousted the Democratic majority in both houses of Congress. The Republicans would reign for the next 12 years.

[alarimer]

75. I'm not a Democrat anymore, not after this last primary season.

I will probably just stop voting. I am tired of having to "hold my nose" or vote for the lesser of the evils (and I had to hold my nose big time for Obama). I will vote for principled independents or principled Democrats (of which there are remarkably few and none to be had in my neck of the woods) or not vote at all.

Fuck the two-party system.

[spanone]

25. something tells me you didn't vote for the democrats last election.

nwmhtt

[heppcatt]

46. Was that for me?

I did vote Dem. always do.
I'm not registered a Democrat just NPA.

[ZombieHorde]

27. Probably. nt

[liberal N proud]

29. Sure as hell will never vote republican

[DavidDvorkin]

31. Yes, I will still vote Democratic (note the ending).

[Turbineguy]

32. No,

I'm going to vote republican the next time. That way I KNOW we won't get any and everything that does get fixed will get fucked up again. Americans should be given the option of choosing "FUCKED UP!" or "REALLY FUCKED UP!". That's why I'll support republicans of both persuasions.

[heppcatt]

34. I understand there is more than healthcare

But if the Democrats are not going to at least do what the claim to stand for.
What is the point?
Are any of the politicians going to do what the majority wants.
If they know you'll just vote for them anyways?

[Nite Owl]

40. That seems to be their point

Where are we going to go if not vote for them anyway.
I'm not sure yet what I will do as far as voting for a dem if they give in on a real public option. I know my feet won't be on the ground, I won't be phone banking or opening my wallet.

[Stevenmarc]

And the viable alternative is what? So probably

[RBInMaine]

37. Most Dems support public option. It will pass the House. The Senate is the problem. Don't blame ALL

Dems.

[heppcatt]

44. No i totally get that

The GOP in the House is more true to the base.
So are the Democrats in the House.

[RBInMaine]

47. oin Healthcare For America and make calls, etc. for public option. And, keep voting Dem. It's the

best alternative. WE NEED TO PRESSURE THE SENATE WITH MILLIONS OF PRO-PUBLIC OPTION CALLS !!

[heppcatt]

49. I have made calls and sent e mails in support of at least a public option

At best single payer.

[DireStrike]

64. The party establishment caused this to be the case

By running conservative democrats and suppressing more liberal ones.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

39. I'll still vote D for sure

It's hard to vote for the religious fascists in the republican party. But, I'm withholding all political donations in 2010 from any Democrat that didn't 100% support a single-payer system. It's going to be a significant amount of money that will instead be donated to groups that are fighting for real health care reform.

[elocs]

41. I am a Democrat and I vote Democratic, not "Democrat".

My party is not perfect. None of them are. I am not a single issue voter.

[11 Bravo]

51. Telling, no? Trolls are never quite as clever as they perceive themselves to be.

[Orangepeel]

43. all my representatives support a public option n/t

[11 Bravo]

45. Nope, I'll vote Repub so that when Stevens (89), Breyer (70), and Ginsburg (72) retire ...

a Republican President can nominate a trio of 40 year old hard-right whack jobs. That should fix EVERYTHING! Roe v Wade, Campaign finance reform, the Voting Rights Act? All gone, but damnit, I will have maintained my ideological purity!

[mike_c]

48. nost likely not-- but I have been voting mostly green anyway since 2002....

Dems have pretty much stopped representing me, so why should I vote for them? Isn't that the way representative democracies are SUPPOSED to work?

[PeteytehMawnstar]

50. I'd go third party

and i'd advise others to do the same. Many people have disagreements with that scenario, but I can't continue supporting or giving approval to one of the sides of the same coin. I really wanted to vote for Mckinny or Nader on this last outing, next time i wonder if the decision will be easier. At the end of the day, kookiness aside, i want someone who i believe is honest.

[nightrain]

52. let's get some real progressive Dems in...

[Zavulon]

53. Yes.

I didn't expect major reform to begin with, and quite frankly I'm not sure I want it. Rushed bills are bad bills, and this "it's this year or never" has shaken my already low confidence in the idea that the government can handle the job.

If Obama does nothing, he still kept that psycho fuckbag McStain out of office. I will vote for him to keep Jindal out of office in 2012.

[MasonJar]

54. I intend to vote for my congressman, John Yarmuth, who is working hard

on all the crucial bills.

[glinda]

55. Just keep saying "Remember the Bush years" over and over again.....

[RB TexLa]

56. I'm sure the republicans will be happy to get Nader on the ballot for you.

[patrice]

57. I REALLY can't understand why I would tell you that. And if I did, it would be smarter to Lie.

[Juche]

58. Most democrats support a public option

Something like 100 in the progressive, asian, hispanic and black caucus in the house are calling for a public option. Only the blue dogs are against a public option.

A better idea than not voting democratic would be if you live in a state or district with a weak democrat or a blue dog and a progressive challenges him/her in the primary, to vote for the progressive.

[DireStrike]

59. If there is not a good outcome, and no attempt to stop promoting conservadems in the official party,

I'll be voting for third parties for a long time to come.

At least with the republicans we can see how bad these strategies are. The fake dems make it worse because they peddle it with softer and more believable rhetoric, and provide the illusion of difference.

[madrchsod]

60. it depends on the canidate...

i vote for my republican state rep because he supports the unions and he personally helped our family in a time of crisis. i have known my republican state senator for 40 years but will never vote for him.

from now on i`m voting for the most progressive candidate. that`s why i voted for dennis.

[timeforpeace]

63. Of course.

[Cleita]

65. I will vote for a Democrat or I will vote Democratic but I will never vote Democrat. n/t

[heppcatt]

66. Gee i didn't know

So many would get bent over not calling it Democratic.
I didn't say democrat socialist..........



/s

[Name removed]

71. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bemildred]

67. We plan to seize control of the Democratic Party and to make it obey us.

Not voting Democratic is not part of the plan.

[Better Believe It]

73. You're joking .... right?

What's your strategy to accomplish that incredible feat .... forbid Wall Street and corporate contributions to candidates and political parties for starters?

[bemildred]

97. Grass roots politics and primary/caucus level challenges to disobedient incumbents.

It's been done before, it can be done again.

[patrice]

78. Right On!

Never Forget.

- and -

Never Give Up.

Solidarity! bemildred!

[rucky]

68. barely n/t

[Iggo]

69. No, I'll vote Democratic.

Welcome.

Enjoy your stay.

:hi:

[alarimer]

70. No and never again.

I probably just won't bother to vote because they are all corporate suck-ups.

[heppcatt]

72. I am thinking with my emotions about the health reform

I know that a DemocratIC (see i typed it correct) majority is the best for my view point.
It's just that i know so many who need help in this area.
It's really sad to see people struggle and suffer especially when they are ill.

[patrice]

80. correctly . . . otherwise, I agree.

[bobbolink]

77. The rules do not allow a truthful answer to that question, do they?

:shrug:

[HughMoran]

79. Perfect.

This is exactly what we've set ourselves up for. How many are agreeing with somebody they know nothing about? How do you know their motivations?

[heppcatt]

81. I was just curious

If anyone else felt the same as me.
I didn't know this was such a touchy subject.

[HughMoran]

83. You do realize that this is a Democratic site, right?

Did you know we're supposed to support Democratic candidates here and if you work against them you will be banned?

[heppcatt]

85. No?

I thought this was just a regular message board for liberals.
Plus i'm not telling people what to do, i just asked an opinion and gave mine.
If the thread question shouldn't be asked then take it down i guess?

[HughMoran]

91. I dunno - the question doesn't bother me

It's the answers that some people give! :)

[patrice]

87. "... same as I." but don't feel bad about that one; everyone says it wrong anymore.

In the not too distant future, there will be no such thing as pronoun case in English.

.......................

"touchy" = This is a pretty complex place. Lots of different kinds of people around the Democratic Party.

[DireStrike]

95. You don't need to know people's motivations to agree or disagree with them

You can judge the merit of peoples' ideas.

[demosincebirth]

82. Too old and wiser to change

[Blue-Jay]

86. 1/10

Try harder next time.

[mitchtv]

89. not if the Dem is named

Dianne Feinstein

[heppcatt]

90. Sorry

I didn't mean to get any one upset.
Or break any rules of the message board with my question.
It seems some are pretty defensive, must be because of trolls.
I get it.
I'll just read more opinions and threads around the board before i ask any other questions.

[Telly Savalas]

92. For the next few election cycles my the Democratic Congress, Senate, and Presidential candidates

are probably going to be the same folks that are in office now. They all support a public option.

If I don't vote for them, who exactly should I be voting for?

[JanMichael]

93. no single payer, no living wages, no fair trade...

...no substantive economic differences...

beats me.

[LWolf]

98. I'm an issues voter.

I vote for people who act to move issues and the nation to the left.

I don't vote for the lesser evil, and I don't vote "against" other candidates.

While I'm a registered Democrat, I'm not a partisan. I don't vote for Democrats who don't represent me.

So your answer is:

The next time I vote, I'll vote for Democrats that I think will decently represent me. I will not vote for those who don't.

[salguine]

100. No. I'll go third party. Whoever I back may not win, but I certainly haven't lost anything when

the winning candidate repeatedly fucks me over anyway. And I can at least hold my head up knowing I voted my conscience.

[dana_b]

108. my thoughts exactly n/t

[WI_DEM]

101. Yes, because it will still be better than nothing. Many millions of people will be covered.

I'm not a person who will take my marbles if I don't get everything I want. If it's an improvement over the current system and covers many more people and puts tough regulations on insurance companies then I will accept that as the best we could get and much better than we would have gotten anywhere else. People didn't think that social security went far enough under FDR or Medicare under LBJ, too.

[dysfunctional press]

102. absolutely not.

[L0oniX]

103. I'll never vote for anyone again ...period!

They don't care about me ...I don't care about them ...and there are not enough people willing to protest and march in the streets and perform civil disobedience to really change anything.

[WilliamPitt]

104. Yes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

106. I'm a Democrat, but I vote issues, not party.

Parties are just vehicles to further issues. If they fail to do so, or do the reverse, I have no problem voting 3rd Party.

Just being "not as bad" isn't enough to win my vote.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[Echo In Light]

109. My politics are Left, and so realize the Dem party doesn't represent that, and vote Indie

[ElsewheresDaughter]

110. I might strongly consider staying home on election day

[flvegan]

111. My cat's breath smells like cat food.