Fact checking Randi -- 60% of people are already on gov't health care?

[gmoney]

"60% of ALL of the people in the United States are insured with YOUR taxpayer dollars. The entire military, the entire senate, the entire house, every federal employee actually, every state employee, county employees -- you know they're all insured with our tax dollars, which is fine."

Now, she leaves out people on Medicare, Medicaid, VA, Social Security, and other entitlements, who would also be insured with tax dollars.

Even if you add up ALL those people, does that even approach 60% of all people with health insurance?

Her new site doesn't have the program notes like her old one did, and she didn't cite anything.

Does this sound right to anyone else?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. I think she meant the uninsured who default on health care expenses...

...and that loss is picked up by taxpayers - although, having not heard the comment in context, I can't be 100% sure what she meant.;)

[Juche]

2. 60% of all healthcare spending is public, but that doesn't mean 60% of people have it

Add up medicare, medicaid, VA, CDC, tax cuts for corporations that give healthcare, FEHBP etc and it adds up to about 1.4 trillion or about 60% of medical costs.

I believe employers only pick up 20% of healthcare costs. So 60% is picked up by state, federal & local governments; 20% by employers and I guess the other 20% by the public with personal spending.

[DURHAM D]

3. People on medicare pay for their "medical insurance".

Medicaid and VA - not so much. And Social Security has nothing to do with health benefits, or the lack thereof.

[havocmom]

9. Federal employees pay part of their premiums too

just like other employer/employee cost split group insurance, because IT IS. This applies to Congress too. Federal employees pay part of their insurance. Employer (taxpayer) pays part, as part of the compensation for work, same as in other employer contribution arrangement. The only real difference with federal insurance is the insurance companies who carry the policies cannot exclude pre-existing conditions.

We have Blue Cross/Blue Shield but if we move to a different state, the insurance will change to what fed employees in the new location have. Policies vary.

[MADem]

12. And military personnel on active duty are covered, but their dependents, not always.

They have to pay a bit to get care "off base" at an approved physician--not a lot, but a bit. And retirees will pay for part of their medical care, either in huge copays, or smaller copays and a monthly charge--that "free medical care for life" bullshit that they told us turned out to be a lie.

[DURHAM D]

14. Yep - total bullshit. I go on medicare in a few months.

At that time I will be writing checks for about $257 for medical coverage each month. That does not include anything toward Part D - medication. Meanwhile, since I am still working I will have payroll deductions from my paycheck toward medicare for others.

There is a staggering amount of misinformation out in the world about medicare - especially among the youngins.

[havocmom]

29. People fail to understand military coverage is by private companies that get contracts

I recall a couple of time where databases of companies administering care for military families got hacked into. Made me mad as hell that while troops were getting shot at in Iraq, some clowns had personal data on their families back home. Personally, I think we owe them a little better job of watching their backs while they are away. The thought that some cell of evil-doers may have been the hackers really gnawed at me. Our troops deserve better security for THEIR families while they are deployed.

:grr:

[hfojvt]

18. how much is the premium?

I remember when I first started working for the feds in 1985 I opted to not get the insurance because even $300 a year seemed like a waste of money. Currently, as a part-time city employee, I pay about $2600 a year for health insurance, including dental, and my employers kicks in about $2500. If I was a full time worker, I would get the same insurance for about $300 a year (just like old times).

[havocmom]

28. I think Havocdad pays a couple hundred or so a month

but I honestly do not know for sure. It does not include dental, but will cover for dental abscess care at a lesser rate than the regular medical benefit.

[Davis_X_Machina]

4. There's a number like this...

....that includes the dollar value of the tax break corporations receive for providing health-care coverage to employees.

The figure you usually hear is nearer 40%.

[deadmessengers]

5. don't forget prisoners

And we've got LOTS of prisoners.

[OHdem10]

6. It is not just the uninsured --it is the high cost of Medical Care

pricing even Medicare out of the market.

We must emphasize the high Medical Costs. People who have
insurance going bankrupt because Insurance does not cover
all the costs.

[Oregone]

7. Hm, no wonder people say single-payer will cost NOTHING

Because since it would scale back costs so much, that 60% of the funding would cover 100% of the costs of single-payer.

[gmoney]

8. Thanks...

She was actually sort of changing the subject there, so the statement is pretty free standing. In general, she was complaining how Republicans don't value life because they don't want to offer health insurance on those of us actually alive.

This was my transcription, which I think is accurate, except for a couple pauses and such I left out.

So, she mischaracterized to some extent... even counting prisoners, it doesn't sound like the number of PEOPLE is anywhere near 60%

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Ummm people on Medicare pay premiums and co-pays

Medicaid beneficiaries do not. Also no one gets Medicare who has not contributed plenty of their own tax dollars, and many many of them continue to do so, right until they draw their last breath. People who get Medicare and Social Security are still required to pay income taxes. And they do. So when you say 'our tax dollars' you'd best be including those who are getting Medicare in with the 'us'. That applies to both disabled people and those retired for reasons of age. Both groups pay income tax if their income is high enough, and that includes taxes on the benefits themselves, including Disability benefits. Taxed.
Social Security does not have a free standing health care plan- so listing that one is just irrelevant to the question at hand. Medicare is the health insurance that Social Security beneficiaries are allowed to buy into. When you say 'other entitlements' what could you mean? What other health care entitlement exists in this country?
Medicaid is not an entitlement. It is a means tested benefit which covers those who have not contributed enough tax dollars to get Medicare but are otherwise qualified by age or disability and lack the means to pay for health care. If they gain much in the way of income or property, they will no longer qualify for Medicaid, and still will have no claim to Medicare.
So this is the problem often with these discussions. No one even knows the terminology or the facts of the matter. What are we talking about? What's Social Security have to do with it? What is an entitlement and what is not? Who's paying and who is not? Few even know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid until they get one or the other in their own lives.
Sorry. But fact checking all of this stuff would be a long process indeed. It would need to start with a glossary study.

[gmoney]

11. Right... I think it it was more about who's part of 'single payer' already.

the right always lumps in Medicare as if it was an entitlement, and not an insurance plan you pay for most of your life.

I was just trying to broaden the net as much as possible to those whose health care somehow comes in contact with federal dollars so see if it would stretch to 60% of ALL people.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Right....but this 'our tax dollars' bit has got to go

Because it implies that you pay, they don't. They do. To talk about this we have to know what words mean. Too many young able bodied people are laboring under the assumption that older and disabled people do not pay taxes and get free healthcare, neither of which is true.
As long as you understand that, go about your business.

[hfojvt]

20. the same thing is true of government workers though too

We get paid from other people's taxes. But we also work, and that work (usually) produces something of value, like trash removal, street repair, fire safety, education, etc. Like any other worker, the benefit we receive in wages and insurance, does not come out of the goodness of our employer's heart. It is created by our labor and by customers (or taxpayers) willing to pay for that service.

[DURHAM D]

15. Thanks for your post.

I think someone needs to create not just a glossary but a test. Before anyone throws out their opinion they should at least have a working knowledge of the policies they are yapping about.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. I get sick of it

and I'm not covered for that kind of sick!

[hfojvt]

19. 'if their income is high enough'

then they pay taxes on it. You sound like you are against that. How much are the premiums for medicare?

[DURHAM D]

21. There are four parts to medicare coverage. Which premium (part) are you asking about? nt

[hfojvt]

23. I only find two

unless you are talking about people with insufficient quarters

http://questions.medicare.gov/cgi-bin/medicare.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2100

"Most people do not pay a monthly Part A premium because they or a spouse has 40 or more quarters of Medicare-covered employment.

Part B: (Medical Insurance) Premium

$96.40 per month*"

$19.8 if 1966 rate ($3) had kept up with inflation

[DURHAM D]

25. C & D.

Part C - the supplemental basically to cover the amazing amount of stuff not covered by A & B. This is paid to a private insurer. The amount you pay depends on which of about a dozen programs you select. Not opting for or being unable to pay for part C will leave people over 65 just as exposed to financial ruin as everyone else.

Part D - the part that pays for medicine. I haven't actually figured out my cost yet. If you don't have it you pay full price for your prescriptions. My father takes about $800 worth of medication a month. His part D insurance pays about 2/3 of that - he picks up the rest.

The point I am trying to make is at 65 when you go on medicare it does not pay for much and we keep taking money out of out pockets to cover ourselves until we die. I will be writing checks for between $275 - $325 (counting the B premium) each month the first year (I turn 65 in a few months). When I turn 66 until I am 69 I will pay an even higher premium for C & D. After that - an even higher premium.

In other words, I have been paying in since 1966 for just part A (hospitalization) and it ain't great.

On edit: I am still working and will continue to work. Therefore, every month I will have the standard deductions for medicare out of my payroll check. So add that amount to the monthly amount indicated above. It is not capped like SS so no matter how much my paycheck is I will still be paying into medicare as long as I work.

[slipslidingaway]

13. Posted some links here last week...

might be helpful.

:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=327850&mesg_id=327876

http://puck.sourceoecd.org/vl=335457/cl=16/nw=1/rpsv/fact2008/100201-g1.htm

[Cleita]

27. Thanks OECD. I couldn't remember where those figures came from since

I had a computer crash.

[slipslidingaway]

32. YW :) n/t

[lindisfarne]

22. 83 million (25%) are: 46 million Medicare, 11 million military, 8 million SCHIP, federal employees

and misc. other smaller federal programs make up the rest.

In other words, 83 million get their health insurance through programs offered through federal government; as others have said, many of these programs collect premiums from people.

This 83 million does NOT include state employees or state-based health insurance programs.

Even so, there's no way it will get to 60%.

I guess if you factored in university employees, school employees, you'd significantly increase it (but unlikely to 60%). Technically, most of their money comes from states (although research universities get 10-25% from federal gov't via research grants). Then you could add in college/university students who get federal financial aid, which in part pays the employees. I'm not sure I'd do this, though.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

26. That 60% figure has been out there for awhile and I believe it originally

was aired on a Bill Moyer's program or that's where I first heard it. Bill does meticulously fact check. There have been attempts to make it seem like a lie but it makes sense when you take in Medicare, Medicaid, CHAMPUS, SCHIPS, the VA and FEHB. Also, I believe John Kerry had similar stats on his website when he ran for President. I once had all the sources but lost it in a computer crash and haven't really had the will or time to rebuild my sources. Here's an article I found on it.

http://prorev.com/2009/04/60-of-americans-have-tax-paid-health.html

[and-justice-for-all]

30. Ok, well then there should not be any issue getting it to...

the other 40%.

[Cleita]

31. There shouldn't be except that our Congress doesn't seem to see it that

way with the exception of a few liberals trying to stem the tide of corporate welfare.