Why do places over-air condition?

[Critters2]

I am so tired of having to put a sweater on when I go INTO a place of business because they can't seem to understand how to work a thermostat. Surely this is a waste of both money and natural resources. I'm going to a convention next week, and will probably pack sweaters, as if I were going to be traveling in winter...because I know how convention centers can be about this.

Is there anyone here who can explain the logic of this to me? Oh, and why can't we actually open windows anywhere, any more either?

[Eric J in MN]

1. The temperature is for a man wearing a jacket and a tie. NT

NT

[JuniperLea]

4. Good call! eom

[Juneboarder]

6. As well...

Everyone's body runs at a slightly different temperature, and so what might be considered a comfortable temp to you may not be comfortable to me. I'm not saying this is an excuse, but still a good, logical reason behind the why...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Seriously.

It's friggin hot wearing a suit in the summer.

[rpannier]

37. Good point

[JuniperLea]

2. I appreciate a nice cool place...

My normal body temperature is below normal, usually 96 degrees. I have a very low tolerance for heat, and rarely bundle up in cold weather. It has to be below 60 before I notice a chill at all. It's a lot easier to put a sweater on than to try and stay cool.

[PVnRT]

14. What she said (n/t)

[DesertRat]

41. I'm the same way. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

45. So do I. I just hate being hot.

[Indydem]

3. Usually, its to do with air flow.

Its hard for a system to constantly regulate temperature in a room full of people. Poor air flow results in the temp going way up when people are moving and in the room. Thus, the owners/operators usually set the temp cool to help compensate for that.

As for windows, its become pretty common practice that most buildings have HEPA and othe filtration systems to eliminate alergens and bacterial matter. Opening the window defeats that.

[DJ13]

5. Here in the frequently 100 deg Central Valley of California

Its just the opposite, most stores dont use enough air conditioning.

[Ian David]

7. Because they like to see your nipples. n/t

[Contrary1]

12. !!!

:spray: Er, I mean :spank:

[area51]

68. You're bad.

:spank:

[northofdenali]

8. Even up here -

my standard-size ranch style house has no A/C, nor does my car. Never needed it. But some stores, particularly the groceries, freeze you out in summer and roast you in winter. At least in summer I can put on more clothes!

[murphymom]

9. You just reminded me of my first job

It was the battle of the thermostat - the secretaries in miniskirts who were freezing vs. the men in business suits and ties who were always too warm.

[kimmylavin]

28. Or my current one.

The 50 and 60 year old women in the office who WILL NOT PUT ON A SWEATER vs. the rest of us who have to run around all day and come back to work in a sauna.

[calico1]

11. I have worked in an office settting for years in several

different places.

No matter what the temperature is Winter or Summer, you can never make everybody happy. Somebody is always too cold and somebody else is always too hot.

I am wearing a sweater right now.

In the Winter I need a fan in my office.

:crazy:

[ChazII]

20. Same problem

in the classroom. Now we have a computer that runs the building. It keeps my room at 75.2 or so it says. Being in the Phoenix area heat in the summer is not a problem.

[CreekDog]

24. When I lived in Tucson, I never kept my A/C below 81

anyone who has been through an Arizona summer knows that a 80 degree day feels cool by the time you finally get one --in October!

and with fans in most houses in addition to air conditioning, the air movement made 81 feel just about perfect.

[ChazII]

53. It has been in the low 90's

during most of June and simply a delight. I do keep my house at 78 because I do not have ceiling fans.

[DesertFlower]

13. we had that problem when i lived in

new york, but here in phoenix, most places are too warm. can you believe the AC in our grocery store and target is controlled from minneapolis?

[Codeine]

15. Walking into a business

is going to feel different than spending a full shift inside that business.

[The2ndWheel]

16. It's still cheap

Anything cheap will be wasted.

[amitten]

17. No offense, but most Americans are overweight.

Heavy people stay hot. Fit people don't. Heavy people are now the majority. Those of us that are actually healthy are punished by having to suffer constant sub-zero AC. I think it's actually getting worse every few years. Many places are now painfully cold, to the point where I'm forced to leave because I can't stand to be inside. It's like being forced to stay outside in winter with no coat.

[CreekDog]

25. Oh here we go!

:popcorn:

[amitten]

26. Not flamebait. I have no problem with anyone else's weight. n/t

[Critters2]

31. Forced to stay outside in winter with no coat.

Exactly!

[distantearlywarning]

35. Oh, jeez.

I'm one of the dreaded overweight unhealthy majority, and I agree completely with the OP. In fact, I was just about to write a "me too!" message to the OP before I scrolled down and saw your post. I am much more often too cold than too hot. Too hot is almost never one of my problems - I have great heat tolerance and absolutely loathe AC in public places. But perhaps it's just that thyroid disease I use to excuse and cover up my disgusting unhealthy cookie and fried foods binging lifestyle...

Your post is one of the stranger generalizations I've ever seen on DU, actually. But I'm glad to know that I can blame myself and all the other fatties for having to suffer extra AC in the summertime. Next time I'm on the bus in July and I'm getting hypothermia I'll make sure to kick all the piggy bastards who are fatter than me on my way down the aisle! But just imagine how cold I'd be if I didn't have all those extra pounds myself! Now I'm not sure whether to feel guilty or grateful. :eyes:

[amitten]

67. I did NOT mean to insult. I don't care what anyone's weight is.

But a lot of things have changed over the years to accomodate a growing overweight population. Clothes sizing, etc. etc. And yes, places are being kept colder and colder, as you have noticed.

Most people with extra weight are in fact hotter by nature. You are not one of them but you are in the minority. I can guarantee you that if the general population were underweight and not overweight, public places would be kept much warmer to appeal to that majority.

[unpossibles]

18. I also can't stand that

why on earth would someone make it colder in the summer inside than they want it to be in the winter? Seriously. If the building were this cold in the winter, people would be up in arms, despite wearing warmer clothes.

Makes no sense.

[Critters2]

19. Exactly. Thank you. nt

[LiberalEsto]

21. Usually it's to control humidity

but cranking up the a/c doesn't work very well as a dehumidification method.


Here's what the Energy Solutions Center says:

"Conventional air conditioners drop the relative humidity down to about 45% at best. However, spaces that tend to be cooler to begin with, such as supermarkets, ice arenas, and water treatment plants, need to have a lower relative humidity as moisture will condense on the cool surfaces of the building or its contents."

www.energysolutionscenter.org

The colder you make the space that's being air conditioned, the higher the relative humidity gets. The more humid it is, the more uncomfortable people are, so the a/c gets set even lower.

I used to write case studies for the ESC until the economy failed.

[NNN0LHI]

52. I think you had the best answer

I had a terrible humidity problem in this house I have lived in for years. I have a crawl space beneath the entire house and it had a dirt floor. In the summer when I would turn the central air on my heating ducts and water pipes would be covered with condensation due to the high humidity and the temperature differential. The cooler I would set my thermostat the more condensation I would create. It was as if it was raining under my house on hot and humid days with the air conditioner running.

Couple of weeks ago I had a vapor barrier put down with 4 inches of concrete pumped in from the street into the crawl space on top of that. Also had spray insulation sprayed onto the walls. The difference in the living areas is unbelievable. I used to sweat in bed every night. I was having moisture accumulation on my hardwood floors when we would wake up in the morning. Underneath my toilets tanks was soaked from the condensation. Like I had a water leak.

Not no more. I could actually live in the crawl space if I had to now. Its that clean and dry now. And the inside of the house is so much more comfortable its like we are living in a different house.

Don

[Catherine Vincent]

22. Men control the controls!

[magellan]

23. Movie theaters are notorious for this

We went twice recently (a new record for us). 90 degrees outside, about 72 inside. I wore a long-sleeved shirt on our second jaunt so I wouldn't sit there shivering the whole time.

[Odin2005]

29. Maybe my being Minnesotan is showing but OMG, you are SHIVERING when it's 72?

:wow:

[magellan]

32. We keep our thermostat at 78/79 for comfort in FL summer/high heat

72 indoors is WAY too cold. Our blood is thin down here. ;)

[Odin2005]

27. I am extremely sensitive to heat and humidity so I find it a god-send.

It is only in the 70s around here but the humidity is very high and is making me feel sick. AC not only cools the air, it dries it out.

And before some self-righteous posters start screaming "that's just because you are just not used to the humidity", I have Asperger's Syndrome, a high-functioning form of Autism, and it makes me extremely sensitive to many things, and humidity is one of them.

[distantearlywarning]

36. No, but some posters might assume you're fat...

Fat people are apparently now responsible for excessive AC.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5875823&mesg_id=5875991

Or if you aren't fat, perhaps you might want to thank a fat person for improving your summertime environments. :eyes:

[xultar]

66. What is it with the DU hatred of Fat people anyway? I don't get that.

[Fumesucker]

30. I'm not sure there is a person in my entire extended family that understands..

The purpose of a thermostat..

Invariably if they are too hot they will turn the thermostat all the way down and if they are too cold they will turn it all the way up.

Some of the other answers are pretty good too, especially about business suits and humidity, but I'm also sure that there are a great many Americans who simply do not understand thermostats and how to use them.

[rucky]

33. Now you know what it's like to be on a failed Everest expedition.

[Horse with no Name]

34. I think it is purposely set so that people don't sweat

and overpower the aroma of the restaurant and the cuisine.

[Mike 03]

38. Two reasons: In the case of businesses, to make people work faster, and in the

case of malls and retail stores, to make people buy faster.

They also pump "negative ions" into the air with air conditioning to make shoppers feel more alert and vigorous as they look at the items they desire.

They are more likely to purchase an item they desire when they feel energized.

[OnionPatch]

51. It doesn't make me work faster.

I work slower when I'm cold. If my fingers are numb, I can't type properly. I spend a lot more time with my hands wrapped around my coffee cup instead.

[lunatica]

39. Once I was married to a stage hand for the SF Opera House where they turn down the air conditioner

The heat that the audience generates just sitting there in the large multi-tiered room, watching the performances will actually push the closed curtains (which weight thousands of lbs) back into the stage. During the day the Opera House has to turn the temperature way down so that it's very cold when the audience first arrives. By the end of the opera the room has heated up a lot. Humans generate a lot of hear when they're in closed spaces.

[distantearlywarning]

40. This is probably my #1 pet peeve in the entire world

It always seems to start around April in my part of the world. As soon as we no longer have ice on the sidewalks, apparently that's an indication that we now need to turn the thermostats in every public building down to 45 degrees.

I have an extreme cold intolerance, and it literally makes me feel sick to be in overly air-conditioned environments. And it's not reasonable to expect people to carry heavy sweaters around in July just in case they happen to go into a supermarket or on a bus. And it wastes energy. I can't understand for the life of me why any building needs AC when the temp outside is only in the mid-70s to start with! Why not just do nothing and let the temp inside be normal? If 45 degrees is so great, why do we bother with heat in the winter???? Gah! It's all so stupid!

The worst thing is when it gets to be July or August. The heat index is 105 with 90% humidity, and you stand out at the bus stop sweltering, and then you get on the bus and it's 50 degrees and you immediately freeze in this horrible clammy, sickening way. It's made me so nauseous and ill at points in the past that I had to get off the bus. I felt like I was going to pass out or go into shock or something.

If I were empress of the world, I would seriously outlaw AC that went lower than 75.

[Kaleva]

42. The cooling load changes so much.

The place of business may have their air conditioning installed to handle maximum occupancy. Also, when I install such, I prefer to undersize the units a bit so that they run longer to reach desired temperature but in running longer, the unit(s) remove more humidity. A relatively cool room that has high humidity can feel downright chilly.

[pipi_k]

43. As someone with Raynaud's syndrome, I always look forward

to summer because I don't have to wear gloves and heavy socks in order not to suffer from the pain.

Then some businesses turn the temperature down to arctic levels.

I can't even go through the frozen foods aisle in the supermarket without pain. :(

[Maru Kitteh]

44. In restaurants it's generally because the temp is being set by busy, active workers

Food service jobs suck. Being hot and miserable only adds to the general horror of the job.

[Critters2]

46. Then, I'd recommend zoned ac. One temp for the kitchen,

one for the dining area. There are two restaurants here I won't even venture into in the summer. Last year, they were downright painful to be in. And imagine how much cheaper their products could be if they weren't wasting so much on AC.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. A waitress running her underpaid ass off may only spend 5-10% of her time in the kitchen

Most restaurants do have separate systems for the kitchen. As for the dining area, apparently most people must appreciate the cool conditions, or it wouldn't be so common.

[Nikia]

54. Being cool in a restaurant is better than being hot

I know that I am probably not the only one who feels less like eating when I am warm. Obvious restaurants want people to feel like eating (more is better) when people come to their restaurant. Places with free refills don't want people chugging several sodas because they are warm either.

[Iggo]

47. I wear a hooded sweatshirt at my office...

...in Los Angeles, California.

[undeterred]

48. I think its a circulation issue

No, I don't mean YOUR circulation. There are always some spots on the same floor that are 10 degrees colder than others... the temperature never really evens out. I actually worked at a company which manufactures heating and cooling systems and it was the same way there! Usually the outer ring of offices is freezing and people in the middle are uncomfortably hot.

[Kaleva]

56. What sometimes works to correct that

is to keep the circulation fans on 24/7.

[undeterred]

58. Or hire a few temps to stand in strategic places and flap their arms.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. Dupe. n/t

[bigwillq]

55. I would rather be too cold than too warm.

I could always put on a jacket.
I dislike going into places that are warm and stuffy.

[HughMoran]

57. So I wont eat or shop there

I actually avoid places that do stupid shit like that as I can't take it for very long.

[Critters2]

62. Me too. nt

[RedCappedBandit]

59. Too cold > too hot

[IDemo]

60. Why do some folks feel they need to be icy cool in the summer and toasty warm in the winter?

It's as if they feel they have somehow bettered Nature simply by reversing the(ir) climate. 65 degrees inside on a 95 degree day; 78 inside when it's 30 outside.

[Iggo]

65. I dunno.

I love living on the earth. When it's hot, I revel in the heat. When it's cold, I enjoy that, too. I am car-less in SoCal (not really the extreme-weather capitol of the world, but we get a heat wave every now and then...lol), and I get a whole lot of "huh?" whenever I leave the house and the weather's not perfect.

"What are you going to do if it rains?"

"Gee, I dunno. Probably get wet(?)"

I mostly hate being trapped inside climate controlled bubbles all the time, I guess is what I'm trying to say. There're people I know who sleep with fans blowing full blast right in their faces, and who drive their cars with the AC on freezing and the air vectored, again, right in their faces, and they wonder aloud, "Man, why can't I shake this cold? Howcome I always got a sore throat?"

I walk down the street perfectly comfortable in 100 degree weather and they tell me "I couldn't do what you do." And I tell them, "I know."

[Celeborn Skywalker]

61. Personally,

I'd rather feel cold than hot. I suppose it depends on one's own body circulation and metabolism as to whether they prefer warm or cold.

[madeline_con]

63. Also, body odor is lessened in cooler temps. n/t

[proteus_lives]

64. Hard to say,,,

Everyone is comfortable at different temps but public and businesses choose colder as the safer bet. Because people won't sweat and stink and it's easier to get warm then to cool off.

I always keep a light jacket in my trunk in case of this or rain. Take your sweater, it's a good idea.