Can an18 year old sociopath even be treated?

[leftyladyfrommo]

Everyone is talking about getting help for this 18 year old who killed and mutilated the cats. But I don't think there is anyway to help those people. Maybe you could just make the punishment so severe that they won't do it again out of fear of reprisal.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. No, you can't treat sociopaths

And punishment to fear them out of it doesn't work either.

[Warpy]

7. Actually, they can if they catch them while they're kids

and easier to convince that no, they're not smarter than everybody else and yes, there is something very wrong with their behavior. They will never develop consciences but they can be taught some rules.

Of course, if they're wealthy, they'll just become CEOs.

[rurallib]

9. Or recruited by republicans to run for office.

[leftyladyfrommo]

8. So basically all we can do is keep them out of society?

That's what I was afraid of.

Does anyone know what causes a sociopath? Is a child just born that way? I think severe child abouse can cause it but not all sociopaths come from disturbing pasts.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. That's my opinion of it

I think they're born that way, because not all abused people turn out to be sociopaths and not all sociopaths were abused.

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. That's kind of sad isn't it.

But these people are too dangerous to just be out there running around.

I read that 4% of the population are sociopaths - but most of them are not like this guy. They can function in society But they tend to mess up the people that get to know them. It's better to just stay the hell away from them.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. It is sad, but not as sad as the damage they inflict

If he's 18 and on a cat killing spree, he'll probably be killing people in a few years.

[LostinVA]

24. They know they are "wired wrong," and that's about it

Maybe one day they can be fixed somehow, like a badly wired house.

[dorkulon]

2. Well, that's the Saudi Arabian solution.

...cue all the posts salivating over this kid getting raped in prison.

Sure, he's a shithead, but it does get a little distasteful.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. He's a sociopath, not a shithead

[dorkulon]

21. I'd say he's both. nt

[elehhhhna]

3. Paging Dr. Frist!

He can do a video-consult AND he hates cats!!!

[vadawg]

4. lol you do realise that you are calling for severe punishment for him killing cats

i can understand if it was people but cats. yes i know he may kill people in the future but future crimes aint my department. Remember it was cats he killed not children.

[dipsydoodle]

11. Cats today and then maybe children tomorrow.

You should really minmise the importance of cats. x(

[Pool Hall Ace]

31. I called it!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5848534&mesg_id=5848588

So do I win the fur-lined pee-pot?

[vadawg]

33. lol yup you win, but seriously the calls for death etc for someone who killed cats

is nuts, i dont even see the same calls for when someone kills a cop or someone during a robbery.

[Pool Hall Ace]

35. I was not one of the posters who called for his death.

I happen to be opposed to the death penalty, but I would rethink it in this case. Not because I believe he somehow "deserves" it, but because it may be more humane than the possible ass-raping he will take from being mixed in with the general prison population!

[LWolf]

5. I don't think so.

Of course, I'm not an expert.

I KNOW we can't "punish" them out of it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. No. It's like trying to teach a blind person to be a judge at a beauty pageant.

They just lack the necessary hardware. Yes, hardware. This extreme lack of compassion and care for one's own fate is a well-documented brain defect. There is no cure. The only merciful option is to keep them locked up, not mistreated, and studied.

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. exactly

[blueberrypickn]

12. what are the options?

-execution
-incarceration with or without treatment...
-walking free with treatment or without treatment...

before deciding one cannot 'treat' a patient, ask yourself what NON-treatment looks like.

its either punishment or waiting for 'Nature/Nurture & circumstances to take their course' & hope something doesn't go vastly awry...

saying someone is a 'write-off' doesn't strike me as an option.

at that point, you're warehousing & engaging in 'detention' without a crime that warrants lifetime isolation in a rarely humane violation of human rights.

[Triana]

13. No cure - at least for psychopathy - probably sociopathy. I got a load of jizz

for suggesting the girl be locked up for life. But she has a long and notorious criminal record and she won't change, given her pathology. It's not locking her up for "crimes she *might* commit" - but rather for a socially dangerous pattern of behavior she's exhibited and crimes she has ALREADY committed and will almost certainly commit again (with increasing severity) if she's out in society.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. What girl are you talking about?

Was someone else involved? I haven't heard that.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. If you read the book "Columbine" by Dave Cullen, you'll learn a little about teenaged sociopaths.

Eric Harris was a textbook example. The problem is, nobody realized it until after the shootings and after Harris was long dead.

Basically, Harris was bragging in public about his plans months before the shootings, but no one ever took him seriously. After he was arrested for stealing a van about a year before the shooting, he was sent to a "diversion" program where he basically was able to con everyone into thinking he was a normal person who simply did a mischevious deed. At the same time he was writing horrific entries in his diary expressing his hatred for humanity and how he desired to see mass death.

[LostinVA]

25. I read the book, and some people DID realize it, the cops just preferred not to listen to the Browns

Even when they had solid proof to get a warrant. If they ahd served that warrant, Columbine wouldn't ahve happened.

[PJPhreak]

20. No They can't....

Think "Dexter"

[Heidi]

22. ANYONE can be treated. Whether sociopathy can be ameliorated is another

thing entirely.

[LostinVA]

23. Socioipaths acn't be rehabbed -- they keep to lock 'em up and throw the key away

If they become violent. This guy will be torturing kids or women a year or five down the road. Cull him from society and lock him away before he kills again.

[applegrove]

34. Sociopaths often calm down as they hit 50 or 60. Charge this fucker

with 18 counts of murdering pets. See how long you can keep him in jail. And hope that he doesn't start hurting women or girls when he gets out.

[mitchum]

26. No, they need to be removed from society...and society includes other incarcerated inmates

[tularetom]

27. No treatment. Don't even try

There is no way to "cure" this subhuman.

Throw his ass in jail for life. Or fry him.

Then throw him out in the park and let the feral cats snack on him.

[lindisfarne]

28. We *can* prevent this sort of thing - by providing adequate support for parents, medically,

economically, & socially, plus by having adequate social services to intervene when parents are failing in their responsibilities.

There is a lot of research that shows that although there are likely brain abnormalities that contribute to sociopathic behavior, environmental factors (especially early in childhood) must interact to produce sociopathic behavior.

In other words, someone with such brain abnormalities will either turn out fairly normal (at least not sociopathic) in one family environment, and sociopathic in another.

Once such behavior has emerged and persists into adulthood, it is going to be very difficult to change the person - at least, given our current knowledge. Medications may help, but only while the person takes the medication.

A good peer-reviewed discussion here:
Sociopaths, who comprise only 3-4% of the male population and less than 1% of the female population (Strauss & Lahey 1984, Davison and Neale 1994, Robins, Tipp & Przybeck 1991), are thought to account for approximately 20% of the United States' prison population (Hare 1993) and between 33% and 80% of the population of chronic criminal offenders (Mednick, Kirkegaard-Sorensen, Hutchings, Knop, Rosenberg & Schulsinger 1977, Hare 1980, Harpending & Sobus 1987). Furthermore, whereas the "typical" U.S. burglar is estimated to have committed a median five crimes per year before being apprehended, chronic offenders- those most likely to be sociopaths- report committing upward of fifty crimes per annum and sometimes as many as two or three hundred (Blumstein & Cohen 1987). Collectively, these individuals are thought to account for over 50% of all crimes in the U.S. (Loeber 1982; Mednick, Gabrielli & Hutchings 1987, Hare 1993).

Whether criminal or not, sociopaths typically exhibit what is generally considered to be irresponsible and unreliable behavior; their attributes include egocentrism, an inability to form lasting personal commitments and a marked degree of impulsivity. Underlying a superficial veneer of sociability and charm, sociopaths are characterized by a deficit of the social emotions (love, shame, guilt, empathy, and remorse). On the other hand, they are not intellectually handicapped, and are often able to deceive and manipulate others through elaborate scams and ruses including fraud, bigamy, embezzlement, and other crimes which rely on the trust and cooperation of others. The sociopath is "aware of the discrepancy between his behavior and societal expectations, but he seems to be neither guided by the possibility of such a discrepancy, nor disturbed by its occurrence" (Widom 1976a, p 614). This cold- hearted and selfish approach to human interaction at one time garnered for sociopathy the moniker "moral insanity" (McCord 1983, Davison & Neale 1990).

Sociopaths are also sometimes known as psychopaths or antisocial personalities. Unfortunately, the literature reflects varied uses of these three terms (Hare 1970, Feldman 1977, McCord 1983, Wolf 1987, Eysenck 1987). Some authors use one or another term as a categorical label, as in psychiatric diagnosis or in defining distinct personality "types"; an example is the "antisocial personality" disorder described in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (1987). Other authors use the terms to refer to individuals who exhibit, to a large degree, a set of behaviors or personality attributes which are found in a continuous, normal distribution among the population at large; an example of such usage is "sociopathy" as defined by high scores on all three scales of the Eysenck Personality Questionnaire- extraversion, neuroticism, and psychoticism (Eysenck 1977, 1987).
...
The behavior-genetic literature on criminal behavior suggests a substantial effect of heredity across several cultures (5). Christiansen (1977a&b), Wilson & Hernnstein (1985), Cloninger & Gottesman (1987), Eysenck & Gudjonsson (1989), and Raine (1993) review studies of twins which, taken as a whole, suggest a heritability of approximately .60 for repeated commission of crimes of property. Adoption studies (reviewed in Hutchings & Mednick 1977, Mednick & Finello 1983, Wilson & Hernnstein 1985, Cloninger & Gottesman 1987, Mednick, Gabrielli & Hutchings, 1987, Eysenck & Gudjonsson 1989, and Raine 1993) arrive at a similar conclusion (but see footnote 6).

[villager]

29. in America, we let them steal Presidential elections!

n/t

[backscatter712]

30. You can't fix sociopaths.

The part of the human brain that enables them to feel empathy for others is totally broken.

Lock them all up and throw away the key - they're that dangerous.

[lindisfarne]

32. Can ins. industry executives who regularly deny care to people, resulting in deaths, be considered

sociopaths?

[Posteritatis]

36. Far too recently people had this kind of "discussion" about other mental illnesses

Blah blah blah, person with disorder X is irredeemable, we need to kill or permanently imprison them because there's no hope ever ever ever, etc. It's an impressively, Republican line of "thinking," and is way too goddamned common on DU whenever anything involving mental disorders of any type comes up. It comes up with this kid, it's come up with things as mundane as bipolar disorder (for which I've heard people around here say that they should lose most basic rights up to and including the fucking franchise), and it'll keep coming up because most people seem to get their attitudes about mental disorders from I-think-thats instead of reality.

Fuck. That.

A lot of people around here are still living in the fifties or sixties with their attitudes towards such things. Fewer, but still far too many, are still living in the twenties or thirties. It disgusts me to say the least.

[lindisfarne]

37. If you can show us a guaranteed way to keep him from doing this again or worse,

fine. Otherwise, he should not be free. What if his next victim is a person? And frankly, targeting cats is bad enough to keep him locked up. He shows no respect for life - nor for the feelings of the people who owned the cats.
I'm tired of all the people committed of pedophilia who get released, in spite of being classified as "likely to reoffend", then they find some kid and guess what - they re-offend.
It happened within the last 2 months in my area. It seems to happen several times a year.

See my previous response. I'm all for programs that help to prevent people from developing sociopathic behavior. But once it develops, it's really difficult to undo.

They need to be confined for the rest of their lives - preferably in some kind of an institution that serves the mentally disturbed (which unfortunately, is much of what our jails do). At least, until we develop some sure way of keeping them from harming again.

[Posteritatis]

39. The real world doesn't have guarantees, ever

Do you want to jail everyone else with mental illnesses too? The treatments for depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or borderlines and so on and so forth aren't totally 100% perfect too, so should we lock them all up as well?

[InvisibleTouch]

38. No. n/t