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OBAMA: "... God's vision ... must be our work here on Earth."

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 08:57 AM
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OBAMA: "... God's vision ... must be our work here on Earth."
Why isn't there a chorus of alarm about the religious nature of this address?

Obama's speech seems like a field day for monotheism, and an utter failure
to recognize the world's Cultures are more than just three religions.

Is anyone else concerned about this type of rhetoric from the President of a secular democracy?
Whatever happened to the Constitution of the United States and separation of church and state?

Linguistic students will be doing discourse analysis on this text for decades, I imagine.

Here is an official speech transcript, from the government of the United States:

===============
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary (Cairo,Egypt)

________________________________________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 4, 2009
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT ON A NEW BEGINNING
Cairo University, Cairo, Egypt
1:10 P.M. (Local)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thank you very much. Good afternoon. I am honored to be in the timeless city of Cairo, and to be hosted by two remarkable institutions. For over a thousand years, Al-Azhar has stood as a beacon of Islamic learning; and for over a century, Cairo University has been a source of Egypt's advancement. And together, you represent the harmony between tradition and progress. I'm grateful for your hospitality, and the hospitality of the people of Egypt. And I'm also proud to carry with me the goodwill of the American people, and a greeting of peace from Muslim communities in my country: Assalaamu alaykum. (Applause.)

We meet at a time of great tension between the United States and Muslims around the world -- tension rooted in historical forces that go beyond any current policy debate. The relationship between Islam and the West includes centuries of coexistence and cooperation, but also conflict and religious wars. More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims, and a Cold War in which Muslim-majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations. Moreover, the sweeping change brought by modernity and globalization led many Muslims to view the West as hostile to the traditions of Islam.

Violent extremists have exploited these tensions in a small but potent minority of Muslims. The attacks of September 11, 2001 and the continued efforts of these extremists to engage in violence against civilians has led some in my country to view Islam as inevitably hostile not only to America and Western countries, but also to human rights. All this has bred more fear and more mistrust.

So long as our relationship is defined by our differences, we will empower those who sow hatred rather than peace, those who promote conflict rather than the cooperation that can help all of our people achieve justice and prosperity. And this cycle of suspicion and discord must end.

I've come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world, one based on mutual interest and mutual respect, and one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles -- principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

I do so recognizing that change cannot happen overnight. I know there's been a lot of publicity about this speech, but no single speech can eradicate years of mistrust, nor can I answer in the time that I have this afternoon all the complex questions that brought us to this point. But I am convinced that in order to move forward, we must say openly to each other the things we hold in our hearts and that too often are said only behind closed doors. There must be a sustained effort to listen to each other; to learn from each other; to respect one another; and to seek common ground. As the Holy Koran tells us, "Be conscious of God and speak always the truth." (Applause.) That is what I will try to do today -- to speak the truth as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the forces that drive us apart.

Now part of this conviction is rooted in my own experience. I'm a Christian, but my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and at the fall of dusk. As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith.

As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam -- at places like Al-Azhar -- that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities -- (applause) -- it was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires; timeless poetry and cherished music; elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality. (Applause.)

I also know that Islam has always been a part of America's story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second President, John Adams, wrote, "The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims." And since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States. They have fought in our wars, they have served in our government, they have stood for civil rights, they have started businesses, they have taught at our universities, they've excelled in our sports arenas, they've won Nobel Prizes, built our tallest building, and lit the Olympic Torch. And when the first Muslim American was recently elected to Congress, he took the oath to defend our Constitution using the same Holy Koran that one of our Founding Fathers -- Thomas Jefferson -- kept in his personal library. (Applause.)

So I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn't. And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear. (Applause.)

But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. (Applause.) Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire. The United States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known. We were born out of revolution against an empire. We were founded upon the ideal that all are created equal, and we have shed blood and struggled for centuries to give meaning to those words -- within our borders, and around the world. We are shaped by every culture, drawn from every end of the Earth, and dedicated to a simple concept: E pluribus unum -- "Out of many, one."

Now, much has been made of the fact that an African American with the name Barack Hussein Obama could be elected President. (Applause.) But my personal story is not so unique. The dream of opportunity for all people has not come true for everyone in America, but its promise exists for all who come to our shores -- and that includes nearly 7 million American Muslims in our country today who, by the way, enjoy incomes and educational levels that are higher than the American average. (Applause.)

Moreover, freedom in America is indivisible from the freedom to practice one's religion. That is why there is a mosque in every state in our union, and over 1,200 mosques within our borders. That's why the United States government has gone to court to protect the right of women and girls to wear the hijab and to punish those who would deny it. (Applause.)

So let there be no doubt: Islam is a part of America. And I believe that America holds within her the truth that regardless of race, religion, or station in life, all of us share common aspirations -- to live in peace and security; to get an education and to work with dignity; to love our families, our communities, and our God. These things we share. This is the hope of all humanity.

Of course, recognizing our common humanity is only the beginning of our task. Words alone cannot meet the needs of our people. These needs will be met only if we act boldly in the years ahead; and if we understand that the challenges we face are shared, and our failure to meet them will hurt us all.

For we have learned from recent experience that when a financial system weakens in one country, prosperity is hurt everywhere. When a new flu infects one human being, all are at risk. When one nation pursues a nuclear weapon, the risk of nuclear attack rises for all nations. When violent extremists operate in one stretch of mountains, people are endangered across an ocean. When innocents in Bosnia and Darfur are slaughtered, that is a stain on our collective conscience. (Applause.) That is what it means to share this world in the 21st century. That is the responsibility we have to one another as human beings.

And this is a difficult responsibility to embrace. For human history has often been a record of nations and tribes -- and, yes, religions -- subjugating one another in pursuit of their own interests. Yet in this new age, such attitudes are self-defeating. Given our interdependence, any world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will inevitably fail. So whatever we think of the past, we must not be prisoners to it. Our problems must be dealt with through partnership; our progress must be shared. (Applause.)

Now, that does not mean we should ignore sources of tension. Indeed, it suggests the opposite: We must face these tensions squarely. And so in that spirit, let me speak as clearly and as plainly as I can about some specific issues that I believe we must finally confront together.

The first issue that we have to confront is violent extremism in all of its forms.

In Ankara, I made clear that America is not -- and never will be -- at war with Islam. (Applause.) We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security -- because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children. And it is my first duty as President to protect the American people.

The situation in Afghanistan demonstrates America's goals, and our need to work together. Over seven years ago, the United States pursued al Qaeda and the Taliban with broad international support. We did not go by choice; we went because of necessity. I'm aware that there's still some who would question or even justify the events of 9/11. But let us be clear: Al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet al Qaeda chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with.

Now, make no mistake: We do not want to keep our troops in Afghanistan. We see no military -- we seek no military bases there. It is agonizing for America to lose our young men and women. It is costly and politically difficult to continue this conflict. We would gladly bring every single one of our troops home if we could be confident that there were not violent extremists in Afghanistan and now Pakistan determined to kill as many Americans as they possibly can. But that is not yet the case.

And that's why we're partnering with a coalition of 46 countries. And despite the costs involved, America's commitment will not weaken. Indeed, none of us should tolerate these extremists. They have killed in many countries. They have killed people of different faiths -- but more than any other, they have killed Muslims. Their actions are irreconcilable with the rights of human beings, the progress of nations, and with Islam. The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent is as -- it is as if he has killed all mankind. (Applause.) And the Holy Koran also says whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. (Applause.) The enduring faith of over a billion people is so much bigger than the narrow hatred of a few. Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism -- it is an important part of promoting peace.

Now, we also know that military power alone is not going to solve the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's why we plan to invest $1.5 billion each year over the next five years to partner with Pakistanis to build schools and hospitals, roads and businesses, and hundreds of millions to help those who've been displaced. That's why we are providing more than $2.8 billion to help Afghans develop their economy and deliver services that people depend on.

Let me also address the issue of Iraq. Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq was a war of choice that provoked strong differences in my country and around the world. Although I believe that the Iraqi people are ultimately better off without the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, I also believe that events in Iraq have reminded America of the need to use diplomacy and build international consensus to resolve our problems whenever possible. (Applause.) Indeed, we can recall the words of Thomas Jefferson, who said: "I hope that our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us that the less we use our power the greater it will be."

Today, America has a dual responsibility: to help Iraq forge a better future -- and to leave Iraq to Iraqis. And I have made it clear to the Iraqi people -- (applause) -- I have made it clear to the Iraqi people that we pursue no bases, and no claim on their territory or resources. Iraq's sovereignty is its own. And that's why I ordered the removal of our combat brigades by next August. That is why we will honor our agreement with Iraq's democratically elected government to remove combat troops from Iraqi cities by July, and to remove all of our troops from Iraq by 2012. (Applause.) We will help Iraq train its security forces and develop its economy. But we will support a secure and united Iraq as a partner, and never as a patron.

And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter or forget our principles. Nine-eleven was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our traditions and our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States, and I have ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed by early next year. (Applause.)

So America will defend itself, respectful of the sovereignty of nations and the rule of law. And we will do so in partnership with Muslim communities which are also threatened. The sooner the extremists are isolated and unwelcome in Muslim communities, the sooner we will all be safer.

The second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world.

America's strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed -- more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, it is ignorant, and it is hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction -- or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews -- is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people -- Muslims and Christians -- have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they've endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations -- large and small -- that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own. (Applause.)

For decades then, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It's easy to point fingers -- for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought about by Israel's founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: The only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security. (Applause.)

That is in Israel's interest, Palestine's interest, America's interest, and the world's interest. And that is why I intend to personally pursue this outcome with all the patience and dedication that the task requires. (Applause.) The obligations -- the obligations that the parties have agreed to under the road map are clear. For peace to come, it is time for them -- and all of us -- to live up to our responsibilities.

Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. It's a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign neither of courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That's not how moral authority is claimed; that's how it is surrendered.

Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have to recognize they have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel's right to exist.

At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. (Applause.) This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop. (Applause.)

And Israel must also live up to its obligation to ensure that Palestinians can live and work and develop their society. Just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be a critical part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress.

And finally, the Arab states must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state, to recognize Israel's legitimacy, and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.

America will align our policies with those who pursue peace, and we will say in public what we say in private to Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs. (Applause.) We cannot impose peace. But privately, many Muslims recognize that Israel will not go away. Likewise, many Israelis recognize the need for a Palestinian state. It is time for us to act on what everyone knows to be true.

Too many tears have been shed. Too much blood has been shed. All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear; when the Holy Land of the three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be; when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra -- (applause) -- as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, peace be upon them, joined in prayer. (Applause.)

The third source of tension is our shared interest in the rights and responsibilities of nations on nuclear weapons.

This issue has been a source of tension between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran. For many years, Iran has defined itself in part by its opposition to my country, and there is in fact a tumultuous history between us. In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I've made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward. The question now is not what Iran is against, but rather what future it wants to build.

I recognize it will be hard to overcome decades of mistrust, but we will proceed with courage, rectitude, and resolve. There will be many issues to discuss between our two countries, and we are willing to move forward without preconditions on the basis of mutual respect. But it is clear to all concerned that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we have reached a decisive point. This is not simply about America's interests. It's about preventing a nuclear arms race in the Middle East that could lead this region and the world down a hugely dangerous path.

I understand those who protest that some countries have weapons that others do not. No single nation should pick and choose which nation holds nuclear weapons. And that's why I strongly reaffirmed America's commitment to seek a world in which no nations hold nuclear weapons. (Applause.) And any nation -- including Iran -- should have the right to access peaceful nuclear power if it complies with its responsibilities under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. That commitment is at the core of the treaty, and it must be kept for all who fully abide by it. And I'm hopeful that all countries in the region can share in this goal.

The fourth issue that I will address is democracy. (Applause.)

I know -- I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation by any other.

That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people. Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people. America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election. But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights. And that is why we will support them everywhere. (Applause.)

Now, there is no straight line to realize this promise. But this much is clear: Governments that protect these rights are ultimately more stable, successful and secure. Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments -- provided they govern with respect for all their people.

This last point is important because there are some who advocate for democracy only when they're out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others. (Applause.) So no matter where it takes hold, government of the people and by the people sets a single standard for all who would hold power: You must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Barack Obama, we love you!

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thank you. (Applause.) The fifth issue that we must address together is religious freedom.

Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance. We see it in the history of Andalusia and Cordoba during the Inquisition. I saw it firsthand as a child in Indonesia, where devout Christians worshiped freely in an overwhelmingly Muslim country. That is the spirit we need today. People in every country should be free to choose and live their faith based upon the persuasion of the mind and the heart and the soul. This tolerance is essential for religion to thrive, but it's being challenged in many different ways.

Among some Muslims, there's a disturbing tendency to measure one's own faith by the rejection of somebody else's faith. The richness of religious diversity must be upheld -- whether it is for Maronites in Lebanon or the Copts in Egypt. (Applause.) And if we are being honest, fault lines must be closed among Muslims, as well, as the divisions between Sunni and Shia have led to tragic violence, particularly in Iraq.

Freedom of religion is central to the ability of peoples to live together. We must always examine the ways in which we protect it. For instance, in the United States, rules on charitable giving have made it harder for Muslims to fulfill their religious obligation. That's why I'm committed to working with American Muslims to ensure that they can fulfill zakat.

Likewise, it is important for Western countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practicing religion as they see fit -- for instance, by dictating what clothes a Muslim woman should wear. We can't disguise hostility towards any religion behind the pretence of liberalism.

In fact, faith should bring us together. And that's why we're forging service projects in America to bring together Christians, Muslims, and Jews. That's why we welcome efforts like Saudi Arabian King Abdullah's interfaith dialogue and Turkey's leadership in the Alliance of Civilizations. Around the world, we can turn dialogue into interfaith service, so bridges between peoples lead to action -- whether it is combating malaria in Africa, or providing relief after a natural disaster.

The sixth issue -- the sixth issue that I want to address is women's rights. (Applause.) I know –- I know -- and you can tell from this audience, that there is a healthy debate about this issue. I reject the view of some in the West that a woman who chooses to cover her hair is somehow less equal, but I do believe that a woman who is denied an education is denied equality. (Applause.) And it is no coincidence that countries where women are well educated are far more likely to be prosperous.

Now, let me be clear: Issues of women's equality are by no means simply an issue for Islam. In Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, we've seen Muslim-majority countries elect a woman to lead. Meanwhile, the struggle for women's equality continues in many aspects of American life, and in countries around the world.

I am convinced that our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons. (Applause.) Our common prosperity will be advanced by allowing all humanity -- men and women -- to reach their full potential. I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice. And that is why the United States will partner with any Muslim-majority country to support expanded literacy for girls, and to help young women pursue employment through micro-financing that helps people live their dreams. (Applause.)

Finally, I want to discuss economic development and opportunity.

I know that for many, the face of globalization is contradictory. The Internet and television can bring knowledge and information, but also offensive sexuality and mindless violence into the home. Trade can bring new wealth and opportunities, but also huge disruptions and change in communities. In all nations -- including America -- this change can bring fear. Fear that because of modernity we lose control over our economic choices, our politics, and most importantly our identities -- those things we most cherish about our communities, our families, our traditions, and our faith.

But I also know that human progress cannot be denied. There need not be contradictions between development and tradition. Countries like Japan and South Korea grew their economies enormously while maintaining distinct cultures. The same is true for the astonishing progress within Muslim-majority countries from Kuala Lumpur to Dubai. In ancient times and in our times, Muslim communities have been at the forefront of innovation and education.


And this is important because no development strategy can be based only upon what comes out of the ground, nor can it be sustained while young people are out of work. Many Gulf states have enjoyed great wealth as a consequence of oil, and some are beginning to focus it on broader development. But all of us must recognize that education and innovation will be the currency of the 21st century -- (applause) -- and in too many Muslim communities, there remains underinvestment in these areas. I'm emphasizing such investment within my own country. And while America in the past has focused on oil and gas when it comes to this part of the world, we now seek a broader engagement.

On education, we will expand exchange programs, and increase scholarships, like the one that brought my father to America. (Applause.) At the same time, we will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities. And we will match promising Muslim students with internships in America; invest in online learning for teachers and children around the world; and create a new online network, so a young person in Kansas can communicate instantly with a young person in Cairo.

On economic development, we will create a new corps of business volunteers to partner with counterparts in Muslim-majority countries. And I will host a Summit on Entrepreneurship this year to identify how we can deepen ties between business leaders, foundations and social entrepreneurs in the United States and Muslim communities around the world.

On science and technology, we will launch a new fund to support technological development in Muslim-majority countries, and to help transfer ideas to the marketplace so they can create more jobs. We'll open centers of scientific excellence in Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia, and appoint new science envoys to collaborate on programs that develop new sources of energy, create green jobs, digitize records, clean water, grow new crops. Today I'm announcing a new global effort with the Organization of the Islamic Conference to eradicate polio. And we will also expand partnerships with Muslim communities to promote child and maternal health.

All these things must be done in partnership. Americans are ready to join with citizens and governments; community organizations, religious leaders, and businesses in Muslim communities around the world to help our people pursue a better life.

The issues that I have described will not be easy to address. But we have a responsibility to join together on behalf of the world that we seek -- a world where extremists no longer threaten our people, and American troops have come home; a world where Israelis and Palestinians are each secure in a state of their own, and nuclear energy is used for peaceful purposes; a world where governments serve their citizens, and the rights of all God's children are respected. Those are mutual interests. That is the world we seek. But we can only achieve it together.

I know there are many -- Muslim and non-Muslim -- who question whether we can forge this new beginning. Some are eager to stoke the flames of division, and to stand in the way of progress. Some suggest that it isn't worth the effort -- that we are fated to disagree, and civilizations are doomed to clash. Many more are simply skeptical that real change can occur. There's so much fear, so much mistrust that has built up over the years. But if we choose to be bound by the past, we will never move forward. And I want to particularly say this to young people of every faith, in every country -- you, more than anyone, have the ability to reimagine the world, to remake this world.

All of us share this world for but a brief moment in time. The question is whether we spend that time focused on what pushes us apart, or whether we commit ourselves to an effort -- a sustained effort -- to find common ground, to focus on the future we seek for our children, and to respect the dignity of all human beings.

It's easier to start wars than to end them. It's easier to blame others than to look inward. It's easier to see what is different about someone than to find the things we share. But we should choose the right path, not just the easy path. There's one rule that lies at the heart of every religion -- that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. (Applause.) This truth transcends nations and peoples -- a belief that isn't new; that isn't black or white or brown; that isn't Christian or Muslim or Jew. It's a belief that pulsed in the cradle of civilization, and that still beats in the hearts of billions around the world. It's a faith in other people, and it's what brought me here today.

We have the power to make the world we seek, but only if we have the courage to make a new beginning, keeping in mind what has been written.

The Holy Koran tells us: "O mankind! We have created you male and a female; and we have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another."

The Talmud tells us: "The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of promoting peace."

The Holy Bible tells us: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." (Applause.)

The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God's vision. Now that must be our work here on Earth.

Thank you. And may God's peace be upon you. Thank you very much. Thank you. (Applause.)

END
2:05 P.M. (Local)




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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I expected more outrage sooner - now I know I'm at DU
:sarcasm:
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. He was addressing a specific audience with specific religious issues.
It was perfectly appropriate for the audience.
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Psychic Consortium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You are correct. He reaches people by addressing what is important to them....
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 09:02 AM by Psychic Consortium
on a deep personal level....
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
63. Exactly -- he will say anything to anyone
You need to watch what he does to know what he really thinks.
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Psychic Consortium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. His words are his truth. His action is driven by the difficult world around him. nt
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Cairo University? Please state the specifics you mention.
What specifics?

a specific audience ??

with specific religious issues ??

Or, is this a broad brush charaterization of Egypt?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. The speech was specifically directed at the Islamic world, genius (nt)
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. There is no "Islamic world"
That is a contrivance (genius).

The speech is on the White House web site, delivered to the One World!

If there were an "Islamic world" it would have to include those fundamentalists who are the problem.

But, look back on the last eight years and religious fundamentalists
are the problem on both sides of the various conflicts.
That's part of the point here, religion is the problem.
The founders understood this and designed separation as a solution.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. I believe he was trying to bridge a gap with the Muslim world
illustrating that "their god" is the same god that many Americans worship.
Showing similarities instead of highlighting differences.

I dont think he was endorsing any religion, but trying to disarm fundies from all sides.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. I think he went
a long way yesterday toward taking some of the hot air out of the extremists by reminding them that all three faiths share the same God.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Agree. If the Far Right fundies are going to have at Obama, they'll have to
know more about their own faiths than he does.

And I suspect they don't.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. There is no "Muslim World," just the one world, Earth, and one species of humans.
There are Muslim-majority nations, as Obama stated.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
69. It's a figure of speech. Don't act like you don't know that. n/t
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newinnm Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. I guess there are political realities
Id prefer he not have to pander to gawd feerin peeple but....I guess its required
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Are you saying the speech was an exercise in pandering?
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. There's a difference between pandering and communication
Obama isn't being all things to all people. Otherwise he'd spew bitterness for the sake of people like you.

His goal seems be to mitigate the concept of 'other' by showcasing commonalities between us, a first step towards peaceful co-existence that our last administration has spent 8 years working so hard to prevent.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. You have to remember his audience
The first rule of salesmanship is: know your audience.

There aren't that many public athiests in the M.E. I'm not saying they don't exist, but frankly we don't hear about them. I'm betting their neighbors don't either.

Mentioning God's plan is a way to motivate moderate people in that part of the world toward a more positive path of action.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. No. It didn't bother me in the least. If he had omitted the historical
and cultural (including religious) context, he would have been savaged for the omission.


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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. This atheist finds that kind of religious speech refreshing
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. How so?
As a believer who is trying to find better ways to communicate with non-believers in a more productive way, what about his approach worked for you?
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
37. For this non-believer, it's about freedom from religion, not the end of religion
Almost all my friends are religious to some extent. The vast majority of the country is. If you want to have religion, I have no issue at all with that right up until the point that it interferes with my non-belief.

In the case of this speech, I saw it as an example of the good religion can do. It can bring people together. It can foster thinking about different points of view. It brings about discussion instead of violence. It focuses on common ground instead of points of difference. More than anything though, I see it as a rejection of fundamentalism. To me, fundamentalists are just people who have co-opted religion to bring about their warped world view. Fundamentalists may think it's about religion, but the way I see it, they're just using religion as a means to an end and as an excuse to often reject social norms.

In Obama, I see the good that come from religious tenants. Caring, peace, generosity...these are always good things.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. Thank you. That was very nicely said nt
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
74. Very well said.
Many people forget that many (but not all) of the founding fathers were religious. They saw no problem with religion or even religious people in govt.

What they wanted to avoid was a state religion enforced upon the people at the expense of other (or no) religions.

Nothing in Obama speech indicated the emergence of a state religion under the Obama administration.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
45. well, Obama was communicating with *believers* in a more productive way


I fully realize (having been a hardcore believer for 36 yrs) that "god" can easily be used to justify violence based on 'his words' in the "holy books".


I'm far more impressed when god is used to promote peace and condemn violence.




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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Same Here
The way I see it, his speech was about bringing people together and the renouncing of fundamentalism.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
75. Agreed
I suppose I'm closer to agnostic than atheist, but I don't have any problem with this speech at all. Although I stand pretty firmly against organized religion in general, I don't deny that they all have something valuable to offer. I'm also not one of those who thinks Obama can do no wrong, but the tone and content of this speech are exactly appropriate to his audience and the goals we (should?) all share.
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
13. The Bible is not the Constitution
Substitute Koran, etc.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. That's not what bothered me. It was the hypocrisy in this:
"we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children"
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Indeed, as US unmanned drones kill women and children in Pakistan.
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. And it's patently untrue, whatever he/they may say. nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. How much is God paying these days? Health Care? He does offer a nice retirement plan.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
18. wonderful speech, he went into areas never been encountered before.
i.e 1953 Iran event.

It is a beginning.....hopefully people will listen.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. Well, it bothers me too,
but my disappointment in the consistent invocation of gods is far outweighed by my relief at the return to a non-insane foreign policy.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. We live in a complex world.
Some Muslim countries, such as Pakistan, are fighting at this moment to make their country an Islamic nation, ruled by their theology. This is a reality in that part of the world. I think the President understands the role of religion in the world, including the United States, and is working to minimize the religious influence of governments. Just my opinion.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. Most of us do, anyway
I kinda get the impression that the shrillness of the rage with which people are reacting to this speech is in direct proportion to how simple their worlds are. I kind of pity these people who think that, in a speech intended to tone down tensions with a vast religious community that has very real grievances, the president should have just gone all Richard Dawkins on them.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. OBAMA: "... peace ... must be our work here on Earth"
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 09:38 AM by bananas
"The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God's vision. Now that must be our work here on Earth."

You don't like people working towards peace?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Invoking "God's vision" is a long-standing problem, one that gave us the Crusades and 9/11.
because "God's vision" is always in the mind of the believer.

Dr. Tiller was killed by someone following "God's vision" in their own mind.

This is the problem: "God's vision" is not reality! We need a return to reality, not more shared delusions.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #25
76. I agree with you, but there's a difference in this speech...
Edited on Sat Jun-06-09 10:04 AM by TroglodyteScholar
The historical "God's vision" that you describe would be more appropriately termed "MY God's vision." That's not what Obama was talking about. He was drawing on the intersection and overlap of these belief systems to compose a positive and broadly appealing message of unity. I think the values he aimed to promote are ones that a lot of us non-believers are comfortable with. The reality-based community really shouldn't take offense at this when there are so many other people still spewing hatred in God's name.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. It was an echo of JFK's inaugural address.
It not only put the quest for Peace into the religious framework the Middle East understands, but it was an echo of Kennedy's great speech that cold, cold day in 1961.

With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.

—President John F. Kennedy, Inaugural Address (1961)
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. I recently re-read JFK's inaugural.
DUers would have hated it.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
26. Dostoevsky Quote:
No sooner had he, after taking serious thought, come to the astounding conviction that immortality and God exist, than he immediately, naturally, said to himself: 'I wish to live for immortality, and accept no halfway compromises.' He acted just the same way as he would have, had he decided that God and immortality do not exist, in which case he would immediately have become an atheist and a socialist (for socialism is not merely a matter of the labor question... but is first and foremost a problem of atheism, a problem of the contemporary incarnation of atheism, a question of the Tower of Babel which is being built without God not in order to reach Heaven from Earth, but in order to bring Heaven down to Earth).

Brothers Karamazov
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Exceedingly relevant.
The tower, of course, casts a measurable shadow and is an instrument of science and astronomy,
enabling astronomy and the inter-referencing of earth and sky (bring Heaven down to Earth in religion-speak).

Astronomy and science, long-time enemies of religion, enable liberation from beliefs in delusions about cosmology.
Science and math are universal, not babel!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. Discourse analysis
Just a quick check/count of some keywords.
6,057 words, 76 paragraphs.

Peace 28
Islam 23
Iraq 17
Religion(ous) 15
Faith 14
American 14
Progress 11
Violence 10
Extremists 9
God 7
War 7
Holy 7
Change 7
Christian 6
Koran 5
Freedom 5
Tolerance 5
Dignity 5
Conflict 5
Muslim(s) 4
Al Qaeda 3
Military 3
Learning 3
Human rights 2
Hatred 2
Bible 1
Harmony 1
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Word auto-summarize = 10 sentences
The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. Words alone cannot meet the needs of our people. America's strong bonds with Israel are well known. That is in Israel's interest, Palestine's interest, America's interest, and the world's interest. Likewise, many Israelis recognize the need for a Palestinian state. Freedom of religion is central to the ability of peoples to live together. In Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, we've seen Muslim-majority countries elect a woman to lead. In all nations -- including America -- this change can bring fear. Americans are ready to join with citizens and governments; community organizations, religious leaders, and businesses in Muslim communities around the world to help our people pursue a better life.

The people of the world can live together in peace.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. There isn't a chorus of alarm because there's nothing to be alarmed about
You didn't understand the speech at all, did you? You just heard something about religion and headed right for your bunker.

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. No
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Quite the argument you've come up with
I think you have an excellent career ahead of you as a GOP senator. No is what they do best.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
30. Are you that naive?
The vast majority of the world is religious. Only a small percentage is agnostic or atheist. Obama needs to speak a language that people can understand.

I think Obama is about as "fundamentally religious" as Jefferson and a good number of the founding fathers. I think his beliefs need to resonate with the religious out there in order to make lasting change to a world where religion does not have a stranglehold on people.

Time to wise up a bit.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. No
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konnichi wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. How exactly would one break the stranglehold of religion while validating
and praising it?
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. So from a politically strategic position
you are suggesting he insult the vast majority of the world? That is just plain stupid regardless of what you think about religion. He would cut his own throat.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Strawmen arguments fly in the wind.
What is wrong is a particular aspect of Obama's speech, going all religious.
That does not infer that not doing so insults the world.
Use your noodle for a minute instead of building an illogical contrivance.

The USA inserting itself into religion is unconstitutional activity, no matter what you think of religions.
It does not matter the "politically strategic position" because the Constitution trumps politics of the moment, sorry.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Since when did politics
really have anything to do with what is rational or logical. As for the constitution, religion has been stepping on the constitution since it's inception.

It isn't a straw man argument, it is reality. In order to be a viable political candidate you NEED to give a nod to religion whether you agree or disagree with it or give me the long list of atheists holding positions in this country.
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Absolutely correct.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
35. So, just tell his audience to go continue to fuck themselves, then. Okay.
Now we know where you stand.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. IGNORE!
Oh yeah, that's exactly what I wrote, right! :rofl:
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. Oh my God, he's a Christian??? Why wasn't this mentioned during the campaign?
Oh ... wait ...

:eyes:
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RadicalTexan Donating Member (607 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
50. PUKE.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
51. Obama was addressing an overwhelmingly religious audience in a very religious part of the world
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 03:06 PM by Hippo_Tron
And pointing out quite correctly that Americans are on the whole quite religious. As a non-believer, I see this as an excellent attempt to find common ground with those who are different than us.

It seems to me that it is much more effective to persuade religious people that religion teaches peace instead of war rather than trying to persuade them to abandon religion. As far as I'm concerned he was using religion as a tool to achieve a secular objective which is peace. I see nothing inappropriate about that.
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Very well put. Thanks.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
53. I know! Obama should have lambasted muslim religionists and their ridiculous superstitions.
That would have won them over.
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
54. That's okay, I don't think he meant the religious pandering. Well, I hope not --
I'd rather politician-type insincerity rather than yet another nutjob who thinks he sits in the Oval Office and knows the mind of the great hairy thunder god.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
56. Had you considered that the focus on the three great
monotheistic religions of the world had a great deal to do with the location of the speech and the people to whom he was speaking?

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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
58. Jews / Christians / Muslims - it's all the same religion
I pray for the return of our Reptilian overlords

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Badgerman Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. Not much longer to wait and the Chinese and Hindus will run things!
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 10:40 PM by Badgerman
...then the 'bIg 3' will be slashing lambs throats right and left!
:evilgrin:

edit sppeelgn
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #58
77. Raptor Jesus went extinct for our sins!
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
59. Too bad he doesn't also acknowledge...
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 04:42 PM by AntiFascist
how right-wing influences in the Islamic and Christian worlds have steered both cultures away from progress.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
60. there's a difference between a secular government and a government oblivious to religion
a good secular government must address issues surrounding religion and religious conflict.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
61. No surprise, except disgust at what a huge bible thumper Obama is.
That speech proves that Obama is refusing to uphold the Constitution and the part about separation of church and state. :puke:
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. You forgot your sarcasm tag. nt
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
62. God's vision?? I'm positively agog. And Magog.
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 05:29 PM by RufusTFirefly
"when the Holy Land of the three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be."

I wonder how well he would've been received if he had said that the Garden of Eden was in Independence, Missouri.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
65. Pandering is a skill
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
66. I've gotten to the point I expect this sort of shit...
I'm just not sure I care anymore. To gain political power in the U.S. you have to tattoo a cross on your forehead and give at least lip service to the bullshit.

Revealed Religion is the greatest hoax ever played on humanity and someday we'll all know it.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
68. the Constitution says nothing about mentioning God in speeches
God has always been part of political rhetoric here.
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solstice Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
70. Few things creep me out more than politicians invoking God. "God" always tells 'em what they want to
hear.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Bush's Shocking Biblical Prophecy Emerges: God Wants to "Erase" Mid-East Enemies
Just one example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5716105

Another: George Bush and God = http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x92460

Results about 22,700 from democraticunderground.com for Bush talked to God.
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Badgerman Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
72. Obama is turning out to be just another lying christian bible thumper! screw 'em ALL n/t
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Um, did you even watch the campaign?
Did you think you were getting an atheist when you voted?
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Badgerman Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. Nope, but neither did I think I was getting another Bush either...albeit a smarter one.
Yes, yes! All you twirly-eyed idolizers I realize that is hyperbole, and no he's far from a Bush....BUT in the religious idiocy department he is very, very close. I am not certain the world needs another fucking saint or prophet.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
80. This is the worst part of the speech :
Edited on Sat Jun-06-09 12:07 PM by boston bean
"I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear."

Who made Obama the worlds fighter of negative Islamic stereotypes. It is not his job. His job is to not perpetuate them. But with the rendition, tribunals, torture etc he aint doing a very good job. Keep religion out of government, PERIOD!

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. You just won the "Most Incoherent Reply" award for this thread.
Congratulations!
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-06-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Wow! nt
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