Does pro-life = misogynist?

[Kievan Rus]

I don't believe that all pro-life people are misogynist. Some are, but not all.

Undoubtedly, some of them are. The "mens rights" groups are pro-life not so much out of a concern for life, but because a lot of them simply hate women...their view is basically, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." And I also feel that some fundies are also against abortion in part because they think women should not be allowed to make any decisions.

However, I think that some pro-life advocates are not hostile to women, and are more concerned with what they believe are saving the lives of the feti (plural for fetus). Of particular note, nearly all of the early feminists were against abortion...and some feminists still are pro-life today.

Personally, I am in favor of choice. If I were a woman and I had to decide, I would choose life. But that's the choice for a woman who is pregnant to decide, and her right to choose needs to be defended and kept open.

[SalviaBlue]

1. Pro-life? Call them anti-abortion cause they are not pro-life. nt

[paulsby]

2. imo and ime no

fwiw, i used to be "pro-life" . rational arguments changed my viewpoint. also, my viewpoint was rather rare. it has ZERO to do with any religious belief whatsoever.

i have lots of friends who would qualify as pro-life. i don't know any who are misogynist.

heck, one volunteers at a battered woman's shelter.

some would argue that even if a person wasn't pro-life because they are misogynist, that the end result of their policy preference is misogynist.

that's a nuanced difference.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. Lots of the men hate women...want to make them have babies.

They are into controlling women. This goes with the right wing conservatives that hate women, don't like smart women, hate women's rights, and want to control when they have kids.

Some conservative control freaks that I know just want a woman as a housekeeper, and they don't want any children.

Like Bob Barr forcing the wife to have abortion, but they sweep it under the rug.

[Kievan Rus]

13. But how do explain pro-life feminism then?

First-wave feminism was pro-life. Even some feminists today are pro-life.

[Hepburn]

25. Name one, OK? n/t

[CTyankee]

28. First wave feminists were reacting against the reality that made abortion illegal and

unsafe. Women died as a result. Early feminists also reacted against certain women who practiced abortive techniques that were not safe.

Abortion today is safe when it is legally practiced. It is NOT the same situation.

You are showing your basic ignorance of feminist history. On this board you have to do better than that. Funny, I don't think you are at all interested in doing that...

[Buzz Clik]

4. Not all pro-life people are anti-abortion.

[BrklynLiberal]

further explanation requested.

[Buzz Clik]

30. The notion that pro-life means anti-choice is wrong.

The acceptance of abortion occurs on a continuum: some believe that abortion is murder and everyone involved is an accomplice, all the way to those who don't have a problem with abortion at any time during the pregnancy regardless of the situation.

As such, there are those who are self-described as avidly pro-choice who would never accept abortion as a choice for themselves; and, there are those who consider themselves pro-life, are personally opposed to abortion, but would never stand in the way of another woman's right to choose.

[Texasgal]

50. Buzz...

Pro-choice does NOT EQUATE with PRO-ABORTION.

That term does NOT exist. No one WANTS to have a painful medical procedure done.

CHOICE: Women should have the right to CHOOSE, you either carry a pregnancy or you don't.

It's quite simple actually. :shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

77. Some people (very few) view abortion as a form of birth control.

It's unthinkable for nearly everyone, but it happens. I believe it's unusual, but it's there.

[Texasgal]

79. if it is unusual

then why use the term?

Not being difficult, just curious.

[Buzz Clik]

86. Actually, I don't think I did.

[omega minimo]

5. Does this smell funny to you?

[CTyankee]

8. Uh, yes...nt

[omega minimo]

14. Ya think we should drink it?

[CTyankee]

18. Not sure yet...stay tuned. nt

[Hepburn]

26. Ummmmm....yes. n/t

[omega minimo]

44. All the Nesquick in the world can't fix that.

:thumbsdown:

[Hepburn]

53. LOL....

...I have not thought about the stuff for YEARS! :hi:

[AllieB]

I think we should be deciding on toppings.

:popcorn:

I haven't had sausage and ricotta in a long time.

[Hepburn]

60. Oooooooh, I have a great one last night....

...fresh tomatoes.

I vote for that! :hi:

But...I will take some :popcorn: while we wait for the pizza.

Kettle Corn anyone?

[omega minimo]

61. Maybe a "cowboy" one.... what's that? Meat, meat and then some meat?

[Hepburn]

70. LOL...the meat lovers pizza:

AKA: Instant heart attack! :hi:

[omega minimo]

82. How do Pro Lifers feel about THAT?!!

:wow:

[Hepburn]

83. Well, there is no choice involved....

...so they love it! :evilgrin:

[omega minimo]

84. Why are these two threads still going?

[Hepburn]

87. Pizza delivery is slooooow today?

:shrug:

[DURHAM D]

6. Yes.

And, the last sentence of your third paragraph is crap of the first order.

Also, you don't have a uterus so I am not interested in your "I would choose life" blah, blah, blah.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. It would be difficult to believe that antichoice men are not misogynists. They are looking for a

way to control women....or they are terribly, terribly ignorant...like some of the anti-choice women.

[Hepburn]

27. Yep....

...totally! :hi:

[Cleita]

9. The more rabid ones seem to be men. Oh and then there is Ann Coulter, but

no one is too sure about her. Choice is about not having an abortion if you are against it, but don't try to impose your views on a medical procedure and women's reproductive rights on every one else.

[sniffa]

10. No they're just mentally challenged assholes

[Xipe Totec]

11. pro-life = murderers n/t

[Bunny]

12. Dude, didn't you get your ass kicked enough in that other thread?

I believe the answer you claim to seek is also in that other thread, but by all means, start a new one. :eyes:

[omega minimo]

21. Dunno, did he have the opportunity to use the PLURAL of FETUS?

:thumbsdown:

[LostinVA]

32. seriesly

[LadyHawkAZ]

15. Just a point-

I'm not going to get into the main body of your post because people are anti-abortion for many different reasons. The point I want to address is your early feminists statement- while it is true that a lot of them were anti- abortion, many of them were anti-abortion because at the time, the procedure was extremely dangerous and often caused permanent damage or death to the women involved.

Different times, different philosophies.

[KittyWampus]

16. IMO, yes. It's a significant part.

[AlCzervik]

17. no you don't know what you'd choose so please, give us all a break. It's not your

body so it's not your decision.

"If i were a woman" blah, blah, blah.

[solstice]

19. Since they don't seem concerned about fetuses AFTER they are born, I would have to say YES.

[RufusH]

20. Anti-choice = misogynist.

[Starry Messenger]

22. I love it when people with right wing views try to soft shoe them.

"I'm a kinder, gentler oppressor."

You have no idea what you would choose. The time window is very narrow and it's not like rolling up to a 7-11 and ordering a fucking slurpy. GO. AWAY.

[AlCzervik]

24. Amen Sister! Like we're all sitting around thinking, hey i have some downtime between

meetings, i know, i think i'll go have an abortion! Who's with me?

[Starry Messenger]

37. Seriously.

Even getting Kaiser to divulge that they performed them was like dealing with a speakeasy located in the basement of Freemason Hall. I'll spare the world the rest of the details. Posters like this make me Hulk Smash.

[AlCzervik]

40. for real, i'm many years out of the baby business but i would never, ever in a million

years want to take the choice away from any female. "If i were a woman" yeah well you ain't so shut it.

[Hepburn]

29. Go, Starry!

:applause:

You sing it out!

[Kievan Rus]

42. So I'm a right-winger....

all because I don't completely agree with your position on abortion?

[LostinVA]

48. She said right wing VIEWS

[Starry Messenger]

51. I did mention shoes.

How does they fit? I said "views" honey.

You might want to brush up for the SATs. They still test for comprehension if I recall correctly.

[AlCzervik]

59. I think if you decide to have a Vasectomy that we get to weigh in on it and tell you

what we would do if we were men. We should also get to choose what you do with your body, okay?

[Starry Messenger]

74. Let's see...

[AlCzervik]

75. awesome, my Nana has a tremor, i know she'd sign up to be the at home surgeon.

[omega minimo]

45. Maybe he's not serious..................

[Hepburn]

23. Pro-life? You meant to say "anti-choice", right?

How would you like it if others were making decisions for you as a man on such things as whether or not you are "allowed" to have a vasectomy?

Yes, of course, being "pro-life" is being a misogynist. Why? Because you are making a fetus a priority to a woman's life and rights.

Really...did you have to ask??? :eyes:

[LostinVA]

31. You're anti-choice, not pro-life -- and, keep digging that hole

Don't forget to mention that you're a virgin, too. :eyes:

[Hepburn]

36. LMBO!

:rofl:

What now? A born-again virgin?

[Kievan Rus]

46. And that's my choice

I won't go all the way in order to AVOID the possibility of accidental pregnancy. What's so horrible about that?

[LostinVA]

52. You seem to be quite self righteous about it -- go read "Th Purity Myth"

And, since when has sex=preggers??? Maybe in 1950's health class films... where they also use terms like "going all the way."

[Hepburn]

62. My fav term ~~ since I had to watch that shit in the 1950s is...

..."getting to first base."

:evilgrin:

[Kievan Rus]

64. If it's what works for me, why does it matter?

And I know what you'll say, "but you want to tell women if they can have an abortion or not!"

I never said that. I said was against it personally...but think women should still have the right to choose if it's their choice.

[AlCzervik]

66. who elses choice would it be? That's where your problem is, you do not understand it

it the choice of the person who is pregnant. No you can't have a choice-not yours to have.

[Kievan Rus]

68. And I've said that on numerous occassions....

that the decision of abortion ultimately rests with the pregnant woman.

[AlCzervik]

72. and on numerous occasions in your life someone is going to tell-Mind your own business, dig?

[Hepburn]

71. We have a winna!

You are exactly right, IMO: Who the hell else's choice would it be? That seems so obvious ~~ to most of us!

:hi:

[Hepburn]

67. Me thinkest thou doth protest too much. n/t

[myrna minx]

81. LOL.

:hi: What do we know since we're apparently "pro death" abortionists. :rofl:

[Hepburn]

85. ...

...LMBO...:rofl:

[Texasgal]

33. You are not choice.

You made your point crystal clear in your other thread.

What exactly is your point here Rus?

[myrna minx]

80. He apparently needs two threads to learn the term:

Mind your own damn business. :rofl: Or as you brilliantly said: Keep your grubby hands off of my uterus. :rofl:

[handmade34]

34. anti-choice = misogynist

the term pro-life does not apply to any of our discussions here of late

[SoxFan]

35. Martin Sheen, Helen Prejean, Nat Hentoff...yeah, a real bunch of cro-magnons

[Ken Burch]

38. Not always. Depends on the faction you're speaking of:

There are, of course, those who call themselves "pro-life feminists".

There is also the "Seamless Garment" tradition, which opposes abortion, but also the death penalty, war, and the exploitation of workers. I don't think most people in that tradition(and this includes people like Martin Sheen, the Berrigan Brothers, Cesar Chavez and Maya Angelou)could be considered misogynist.

The "Evangelical Right/Team Jesus/Promise Keeper" types, however, could fairly be called misogynist. They are driven by not only opposition to abortion, but hatred of the notion of women's equality and, frankly, hatred of modern life.

[Dappleganger]

39. "If I were a woman and I had to decide..."

Why did you create a 2nd thread to repeat the same amount of nothingness?

[AlCzervik]

41. because he needs validation, i guess no one ever told him to mind his own business.

[Starry Messenger]

47. School just let out for the summer.

I'm sure we're in for a perfect storm of assholes this week. I should know better than to feed it, but :grr:

[LostinVA]

57. I thought that, too -- it happens at the end of every coolege semester

[Starry Messenger]

78. It must be a frat ritual or something.

Go bug the DUers like knocking over mailboxes on a Saturday night.

[LostinVA]

58. I thought that, too -- it happens at the end of every coolege semester

[LostinVA]

54. Because his ass was kicked in that other thread

He wants some validation for his views.

[girl gone mad]

43. I consider anyone who wants to put the government in charge of my body..

a misogynist.

Family planning should be between a woman, her partner (if applicable) and her doctor. Anyone who has believes that they know better than a pregnant woman what she should do with the fully dependent embryo in her body is taking a misogynistic position.

[Kaleko]

69. Right on.

Over and out on this topic.

[BlooInBloo]

49. Wow - the people they let stay around these days.

[Chovexani]

55. Yes.

See: George Carlin's many takes on this subject, he said it better than I could.

[JHB]

56. My observation is that what gets many "pro-lifers" red-faced foaming with rage is...

...someone "getting away with" unauthorized ("illicit", to use their term) sex. And they direct their harshest flame-blasting at women who do so.

[kestrel91316]

63. Don't come in here and call them "pro-life". They are only "pro"

Christian fundie life and fetal life.

And yes, they are fundamentally misogynistic, unless they are TRUE prolifers who do not support the death penalty or any wars whatsoever.

[mitchum]

65. You mean ANTI-CHOICE = misogynist, cellophane boy?

[Mrs. Overall]

73. It's the "I would choose life" in your post that implies women "choose death" if they have

an abortion.

It's your terminology that is a put-off.

[McCamy Taylor]

76. "Pro-life" means "pro capitalist:" and "anti-worker" since unintended pregnancy

drives down wages for women which in turn drives down wages for everyone.

There is a reason the Republican Party is so wedded to restrictions of reproductive freedom---and it has to do with what the GOP loves most, money. The rank and file Right-to-Lifers are the dupes of business interests, the same way that working class racial bigots are the dupes of Big Business. It is all part of the same Divide and Conquer racket.

[supernova]

88. In a word, "Yes."

Pro life = misogyny, hatred of women.

[liquid diamond]

89. You answered your own question and I agree.

Not all pro-lifers hate women.

[Odin2005]

90. No.

Saying that being anti-choice is always misogynistic is brainless black-and-white thinking.