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Why did Bush-Cheney and the CIA Destroy the Minds of 9/11 Detainees? Others Disappeared or Dead.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:49 AM
Original message
Why did Bush-Cheney and the CIA Destroy the Minds of 9/11 Detainees? Others Disappeared or Dead.
Edited on Wed May-20-09 12:48 PM by leveymg
The question is being asked, why did the White House order the CIA to waterboard 9/11 suspect Abu Zubaydeh 83 times? That's an important start to this line of inquiry.

Here's a more telling question: why did they waterboard AZ without monitoring his blood-oxygen level, which predictably resulted in his brain damage and memory loss?

And, why are so many other material witnesses now disappeared or dead?


Fingertip Blood Oximeter - $48 Monitoring of blood-oxygen is a routine part of any procedure where respiration may be interrupted. The device that measures oxygen levels, a pulse oxomiter, is hardly an exotic medical instrument - they are in common use in clinics, dental offices, and geriatric care facilities around the world. Many Scuba divers and mountain climbers use them to monitor for anoxia, a drop in oxygen levels.

Abu Zubaydeh blacked out several times and almost died while he was waterboarded repeatedly and for extended periods without oxygen monitoring.

Why did they interrogate him this way?

***

From the recently-leaked International Committee of the Red Cross report on "High Value" Detainees ("ICRC Report (PDF)"), Zubaydah described his interrogation during waterboarding in August, 2002:

On this occassion my head was in a more backward, downwards position and the water was poured on for a longer time. I struggled without success to breathe. I thought I was going to die. I lost control of my urine. Since then I still lose control of my urine when under stress.

<snip>

I collapsed and lost consciousness on several occasions. Eventually the torture was stopped by a doctor.


It appears the IG report footnote is referring to a waterboarding "ADVERSE EVENT" of Zubaydah that required resuscitative medical intervention.

The CIA dramatically altered the protocol for waterboarding by March 2003. Specifically, The ICRC report description of the waterboarding of AZ and KSM is almost identical with the exception of one detail. KSM had a pulse oximeter (a device to measure blood oxygen levels) attached to his finger to measure the level of oxygen in his blood during waterboarding, and he noted that there was a doctor present in the room each time this procedure was used. This suggests that "ADVERSE EVENTS" in the experience of waterboarding Zubaydah led to this drastic change in protocol requiring close medical supervision.

They stopped waterboarding after KSM in March 2003. This suggests they knew waterboarding was prone to "ADVERSE EVENTS".
See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/27/724318/-The-CIA-Almost-Killed-Both-Zubaydah-and-al-Nashiri


***

This wasn't something that was done in some isolated cellar by untrained goons. The waterboarding of AZ was carried out at Baghram Air Base, where it was overseen by a team of experts in waterboarding who had developed the SERE program for the U.S. military. These contractors were paid a thousand dollars a day each plus expenses for their subject matter expertise. CCTV video cameras were "everywhere" according to CIA officers interviewed, broadcasting every one of these interrogations back to Washington and Langley. Each painful step of these interrogations had to be approved in advance.


The Agency's own recordings of these sessions were later ordered destroyed by Director of CIA Clandestine Operations
Jose A. Rodriguez. It was Rodriguez who had been in charge of the unit, the Director's Counter-Terrorism Center (CIA/CTC), that actually carried out the torture of Abu Zubaydeh and the waterboarding of two other "high-value" detainees.

Under the previous CTC Director, Cofer Black (1999-May 17, 2002), that same unit had monitored the al-Qaeda planning summit in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia where AZ and several of the principal 9/11 hijackers planned out the 9/11 attack. Under Black, later CTC set up the "black site" rendition and torture program.




Cofer Black had been CIA Chief of Station in Sudan in the mid-1990s when bin Laden and Abu Zubaydeh were running their own worldwide operations from that location, including the training of Islamic militants for combat in Bosnia and later Chechnya. AZ trained six the principal 9/11 hijackers, originally recruited for such operations against the Russians.

Based on ongoing NSA monitoring of Nawaf al-Midhar, in December 1999, Black's CTC monitored preparations and travel to the Kuala Lumpur summit of the future Flt. 77 hijackers and others who planned there and went on to lead the "Planes Operation". The attendees were tracked as they scattered and went their various ways. CTC monitored the January 15, 2000 arrival at LAX of al-Midhar and his partner, Khalid al-Hazmi, who had originally been recruited by AZ to fight in Chechnya. A series of at least three warning cables drafted by FBI liason officers at CTC were drafted about the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the travels of the future Flt. 77 hijackers, but these were ordered withheld by Black's Assistant at CTC, a man identified as "Robert B", a protege of CIA Director George Tenet. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/413

The same CIA unit and key managers that had monitored bin Laden and then failed to deter the 9/11 attacks was then given the task of interrogating the surviving witnesses. How do you spell conflict of interest? What were the White House and CIA Director Tenet thinking?



***

MORE DEAD 9/11 SUSPECTS

What was it that AZ knew that the White House and CIA Director thought was so important that he had to be waterboarded into a near-vegetative state?

The connection of the 9/11 hijackers and CIA itself provides an apparent motive. Was there another group with a possible interest in erasing and altering the knowledge that Abu Zubaydeh had inside his head?

According to author Gerald Posner, the CIA had already extracted the most important facts from AZ before he was waterboarded. Abu Aubaydeh was captured in Pakistan in late March 2002. While he was still recovering from gunshot wounds to his groin and abdomen suffered during his capture, he was transferred from Pakistan to the "dark prison" in Afghanistan.

Initially, his interrogation was done more by guile than torture, and AZ was still quite intact after he divulged the "Rosetta Stone", some of most critical information about the 9/11 operation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-posner/the-cias-destroyed-inter_b_75850.html

In my 2003 New York Times bestseller, Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11, I discussed Abu Zubaydah at length in Chapter 19, "The Interrogation." There I set forth how Zubaydah initially refused to help his American captors. Also, disclosed was how U.S. intelligence established a so-called "fake flag" operation, in which the wounded Zubaydah was transferred to Afghanistan under the ruse that he had actually been turned over to the Saudis. The Saudis had him on a wanted list, and the Americans believed that Zubaydah, fearful of torture and death at the hands of the Saudis, would start talking when confronted by U.S. agents playing the role of Saudi intelligence officers.

Instead, when confronted by his "Saudi" interrogators, Zubaydah showed no fear. Instead, according to the two U.S. intelligence sources that provided me the details, he seemed relieved. The man who had been reluctant to even confirm his identity to his U.S. captors, suddenly talked animatedly. He was happy to see them, he said, because he feared the Americans would kill him. He then asked his interrogators to call a senior member of the Saudi royal family. And Zubaydah provided a private home number and a cell phone number from memory. "He will tell you what to do," Zubaydah assured them

That man was Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, one of King Fahd's nephews, and the chairman of the largest Saudi publishing empire. Later, American investigators would determine that Prince Ahmed had been in the U.S. on 9/11.

American interrogators used painkillers to induce Zubaydah to talk -- they gave him the meds when he cooperated, and withdrew them when he was quiet. They also utilized a thiopental sodium drip (a so-called truth serum). Several hours after he first fingered Prince Ahmed, his captors challenged the information, and said that since he had disparaged the Saudi royal family, he would be executed. It was at that point that some of the secrets of 9/11 came pouring out. In a short monologue, that one investigator told me was the "Rosetta Stone" of 9/11, Zubaydah laid out details of how he and the al Qaeda hierarchy had been supported at high levels inside the Saudi and Pakistan governments.

He named two other Saudi princes, and also the chief of Pakistan's air force, as his major contacts. Moreover, he stunned his interrogators, by charging that two of the men, the King's nephew, and the Pakistani Air Force chief, knew a major terror operation was planned for America on 9/11.

It would be nice to further investigate the men named by Zubaydah, but that is not possible. All four identified by Zubaydah are now dead. As for the three Saudi princes, the King's 43-year-old nephew, Prince Ahmed, died of either a heart attack or blood clot, depending on which report you believe, after having liposuction in Riyadh's top hospital; the second, 41-year-old Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, died the following day in a one car accident, on his way to the funeral of Prince Ahmed; and one week later, the third Saudi prince named by Zubaydah, 25-year-old Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, died, according to the Saudi Royal Court, "of thirst."


The head of Pakistan's Air Force, Mushaf Ali Mir, was the last to go. He died, together with his wife and fifteen of his top aides, when his plane blew up -- suspected as sabotage -- in February 2003. Pakistan's investigation of the explosion -- if one was even done -- has never been made public.

Zubaydah is the only top al Queda operative who has secretly linked two of America's closest allies in the war on terror -- Saudi Arabia and Pakistan -- to the 9/11 attacks. Why does Bush, and the CIA, continue to protect the Saudi Royal family and the Pakistani military, from the implications of Zubaydah's confessions?


MORE THAN 30 OTHER AQ DETAINEES DISAPPEARED OR DEAD IN CUSTODY

Yet another explanation for repeated and prolonged waterboarding of Abu Zubaydeh has recently emerged. There are a number of observers who have speculated in the last month or so that AZ was tortured into false confessions intended to link al-Qaeda with Iraqi WMD programs. This theory is reinforced by the prison "suicide" of Ibn al-Shayk al-Libi, who was captured before AZ, the confessions of whom served as the source of much of the Bush-Cheney Administration's phony charges that Iraq had trained AQ operatives in chemical and bioloigical warfare. Before he turned up dead following CIA rendition to Libya, al-Libi was one of three dozen AQ detainees that have disappeared after capture. Is the record of evidence being destroyed?

Of course, none of these explanations exclude the others, and there appear to be multiple interested groups at various levels of the Bush Administration and the CIA with plausible motives to alter or erase the memory of Abu Zubaydeh and other 9/11 detainees. Here's another question: when are these figures involved in ordering torture finally going to be put under oath to answer the questions they have already perjured themselves about before Congress and the 9/11 Commission?

***
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. What steps would one take to create false testimony? These are those steps. (nt)
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. If they're crazy or dead, can't recant their confessions, either. n/t
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. so Cheney's patsies won't talk
it a wonder Dick didn't cut their tongues out?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Quickly scanned, but agree . . . looks more like creating memory loss . . .
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Sneer. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL & xVP Dickie 'Five Deferments' Cheney (R)
Edited on Wed May-20-09 12:02 PM by SpiralHawk
...and their Republicon Homelander cronies

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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. The protocol to maintain secrecy includes dumbing people down,
although the use of water boarding is an extreme method, it is part of the general philosophy.

"Stop lobotomizing the raiders" BSG

Zombie protocol, destroy the brain.

Movie Constance has things in hell shown as not having any brains.

Don't let the machines(workers) learn to think. <-interesting metaphor there.

Planet of the apes, most people do not have a voice, they labotomize the person that does.

Soma for the population(brave new world), so they are content to just work.

Anxiety and fear to keep people too menatlly occupied and distracted to think.

'1984' make people think things are hopeless by making them think there is nothing they can do.

Lead in toys or any chemicals that cause neurological disruption.

Another method is mental assult by imposing violence and horror imagery, so the mind shuts down to protect itself from the violent imagery.(Many TV shows) A study of primate groups showed that in a group of monkeys, if one is picked on, he will transition to depression as a protection from absorbing stimulus from others in the group. This is a method to break down empathy and connectivity between people by exposing violence and fear at them till they say they can't take it and stop thinking about anything. This may be the bigger reason or intent behind using the torture also.

Note that not accepting the violence or hate into ones mind also protects a person.

I know there is hope, and I know people choose the future, it is up to people, all people, what the society will be. Many may say it will be 'God's will', but God created us, and in that I believe 'God's will' will match what our desires will be. Especially when we are free from fear, hate and other things that can imprison us.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great post, Mark!
Too bad our traditional media has no interest in pursuing the truth.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Too bad for them Truth finds its own way.
Anybody who wants to maintain their own relevance is already on the Truth train.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great work!
Thank you for this.

Nominated.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent post! Why aren't Cofer Black and Jose Rodriguez geting scrutiny
in the media? They belong up on charges right along with the Bush Six.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Now that is an
interesting question. I think that it is safe to say that many journalists are aware of who these fellows are, and what they were up to. Hence, the reason these journalists are not reporting about them is not due to ignorance. That kind of narrows it down.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes. We have Cofer Black on tape before the 9/11 Commission
Edited on Wed May-20-09 02:18 PM by EFerrari
saying it's time to take the gloves off and Jose Rodriguez was widely reported to be the one who went ahead with the destruction of taped evidence, i.e., the video tapes of torture sessions. These men are known to the media.

And, does George Tenet's medal protect him from scrunity, too? He is not as culpable as Cheney/Rumsfeld but he is definitely in the next tier, along with Black, Addington and the rest of the subprime movers.

/oops
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. And journalists can get killed too
We mustn't forget that if they are killing people, that means anyone getting close to the truth is in danger.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Why waterboard without using the pulse oximeter?"
Old medical adage: If you don't want to find a fever, don't take a temperature!

Excellent post. Thanks.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent work - very important point. Thank you. k/r
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick
:)
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Rodriguez goes back to Iran/Contra.
The name Jose A. Rodriguez rang a bell. I was wondering if he might be related to Felix Rodriguez, CIA officer from Bay of Pigs and Iran/Contra infamy. I've been unable to confirm if there is a blood relationship there, but they both have one connection in common: Iran/Contra.



From the Sunday Times:

Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer, believes the scandal could reach deep into the White House. “The CIA and Jose Rodriguez look bad, but he’s probably the least culpable person in the process. He didn’t wake up one day and decide, ‘I’m going to destroy these tapes.’ He checked with a lot of people and eventually he is going to get his say.”

Johnson says Rodriguez got his fingers burnt during the Iran-contra scandal while working for the CIA in Latin America in the 1980s. Even then he sought authorisation from senior officials. But when summoned to the FBI for questioning, he was told Iran-contra was “political – get your own lawyer”.

He learnt his lesson and recently appointed Robert Bennett, one of Washington’s most skilled lawyers, to handle the case of the destroyed interrogation tapes. “He has been starting to get his story out and was smart to get Bennett,” said Johnson.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3087293.ece
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. They need to create zombies to further their crimes
We could be facing a hybrid War on Terror/War on Zombies.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Erasing the mind. Quite an old CIA technique.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. That shit really worked on the GOP voters!
The preachers have been doing that for years.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, leveymg.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. k&r
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. K & R - n/t.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. While reading AQ, (al-quaeda), I flashed on AQ Khan. Anybody know what's
become of AQ? He's been real quiet lately. Is he still under 'house arrest'? Thanks to you mark and other DUers. I, (because my head is stuffed and it is intentionally manufactured to be) I do remember AZ and how he was relieved to see that it wasn't the US who had captured him, it was the Saudis. :thumbsup:
Much BS has wasted my time here on DU. Your post is worthy of recognition, because it is the truth. :thumbsup: peace to you DUers. You know who you are. :hi:
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. No surprise to me...
I've said all along they were not interested in finding out what the detainees knew about the planning of 9/11 in itself but merely what they knew about the complicity of our own government as well as the Saudi government in the planning which really raises a question of whether the Saudi royal family is a friend or an enemy of the American people.

Those who knew of course died. Even in Saudi Arabia. Why would the Saud family be involved? They might have hoped to muzzle the more outspoken of the mullahs who along with Osama bin Laden were calling for their "ouster" and preferably at the hands of a swordsman. If so that isn't what happened. And the mullahs of course now have a might sword of their own. To finally keep the Saud family in its place. And return Saudi Arabia to its fundamentalist foundation.

We would never have known anything had it not been for the Riggs Bank investigation that accidentally stumbled upon the checks Princess Haifa wrote to a "poor Saudi family" in San Diego who of course then turned the cash over to the hijackers. And when the investigation moved from Pinochet to Princess Haifa and Prince Bandar they both were suddenly called back to Riyadh on "urgent family business" which really means they got the hell out of dodge before she could be handed a subpoena.

They knew. The Bushes wanted to be rid of Saddam Hussein. The Sauds wanted to be rid of the mullahs. What they didn't know was what Osama bin Laden really had planned. They had no idea those planes would become missiles and they were probably just as horrified as everyone else.

They had planned on sending in the cowboys and rescuing everyone on the tarmacs. The problem is the planes never landed.

Such evil people. All of them. And Congress probably knows as well at this point. And remains silent. Such evil people indeed. All of them.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. It kinda works like this....
Edited on Wed May-20-09 07:23 PM by happydreams
They are people who know to much, so they fry their brains and if that doesn't work they can just treat them so badly that their testimony will not be accepted in a trial. It eliminates them as credible witnesses. Better yet the victim sues the government and the fascists laugh at that because it is just another drain on government funds and credibility.

It is a great system for fascist psychopaths and it is still in operation and always will be until we go extinct. Which is not a bad thing. This fucking human race deserves extinction.
Now go back and watch American Idle or start a topic on gardening and put it in General Discussion while you watch substantive discussions shitcanned for being to conspiratorial like the one on the Cheney link to assasination of Bhutto labeled a conspiracy theory the other day.
The cynical contempt for those (about .00001% of the population if that) who do the work to bring the facts to this shit-for-brains human race is the part I never got used to. The people that do this work should be paid for it.
Fuck You to the people who stifle them no matter what political party you claim affiliation with. FUCK YOU!!


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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Torture Works!
Dead men tell no tales. x(
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. To get to the other side?
:kick: Rec
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
29. I can tell you that a Pulse ox is not a effecient way to know
the blood oxygenation many times a Blood gas does not jive with a Pulse ox
thats a documented fact
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. Of all the things Dick and George have stolen from the people of the world, we can now add BRAINS.
Edited on Wed May-20-09 11:58 PM by peacetalksforall
And souls.

There is something I keep reading that sends me into a rage of anger.......

We have had many years of knowing how despicable Republicans are - it has been comparatively recent that we have learned the role of doctors, psychiatrists or psychologists (or both).

Talk about Nazi Germany. We have surpassed the Nazis in all ways except one.

I condemn everyone, including Democrats and citizens, who have lauded or excused this massive death of humanity. I condemn.

I am not brilliant. I am not well educated. But I know a wrong when I see one and it didn't take me a decade to come to a conclusion.

I am proud to be one of those who saw through the motives immediately. I joined the chorus of those who couldn't believe that humans beings would allow or make a 9-11 and then declare a war on Iraq and build prisons and keep telling the poor believers that we were in a war against terrorism. They did it because they believed we were ALL stupid.

The most heart sickening was to watch Dem candidates and leaders spew the same crap. I applaud Al Gore, Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, Paul Wellstone, and Sen Byrd - just a very few who told US as much of the TRUTH as they could.

The United States of America - a living and dying lie. Unless the people say and do and demand.

And I condemn Israel who won't stop lobbying and leading us into a war with Iran.

Please wake up Americans. Wake up. Stay awake. Wake others.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. Arabs are just patsies, 911 was an inside job.

Yet another explanation for repeated and prolonged waterboarding of Abu Zubaydeh has recently emerged.


Yeah, like uh Abu Zubaydeh figured out that the Arabs were just patsies?

when are these figures involved in ordering torture finally going to be put under oath to answer the questions they have already perjured themselves about before Congress and the 9/11 Commission?


the 32nd of the month of Never?

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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. K & R nt
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
36. 9/11 was an inside job
that's why
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Clarence Birdseye Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
37. Interesting ...
The OP has made allegations of murder and complicity in the 9/11 attackes on the part of the US Government. Now that the Democrats control 2 branches of government we should see an investigation, right? We should have seen one two years ago, right?

Problem with conspiracy theories is that as they are examined, they just get more complex in order to "explain".

Well, Obama is now complicit too. Let's see what happens.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. You're not reading me correctly.
Edited on Thu May-21-09 09:30 AM by leveymg
I am not imputing motive to the CIA in the attacks themselves, and have never done so. The element of intent has yet to be established, and won't be until there is a trial or some top figure on the inside of the Bush-Cheney Administration spills the beans.

What I have written consistently during the last seven years that I've been researching and writing on the subject is that the reason the attacks "succeeded" was because the CIA-CTC under Cofer Black allowed key 9/11 hijackers into the the U.S. despite knowing their identity and their intentions. This was part of an ongoing counter-terrorism operation that in the summer of 2001 was known to be spinning out of control. CIA-CTC was conducting an illegal domestic, warrantless operation inside the U.S., and the FBI's I-49 national security unit headed by John O'Neill was kept out of the loop and its efforts to track these same AQ operatives were sabotaged. Everything that I've seen since I began looking at the case has confirmed that basic investigative premise.

Ultimately, I do not blame the Agency and its employees for 9/11. CIA Director Tenet and his CTC Director tried to convince the Bush-Cheney Administration to shut down the domestic part of that operation. Tenet and Black met with Condi in her office on July 10. Condi did not seem to sufficiently grasp the gravity of the threat posed by the AQ cells known to be inside the U.S. in the final stages of planning their attacks. On August 6, the Agency briefed Bush - the PDB mentioned Abu Zubaydah, air hijackings, the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as targets. Bush's response to the briefer was, "Ok, you've covered your ass now." A couple weeks later, Tenet suddenly flew to Crawford and he and Bush got into a jeep and rolled around the Bush ranch. Again, the President refused to unleash the FBI to "roll-up" the AQ cells. In the American form of secret government, nobody rolls up such an operation until the President orders it. For a reason that has yet to be explained, Bush refused. It was his call.

A lot of people in Washington and Langley had good reason to cover-up their role and the exact actions that resulted in the disaster that followed on 9/11. Since that counter-terrorism operation went back to the previous Administration, there's an element of blackmail here that's been driving a bi-partisan whitewash. Same problem with renditions and authorization for torture of al-Qaeda detainees. The facts, however, are the facts, and my account is factual. I'll let the reader draw their own conclusions about motives for 9/11.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. Maybe Abu Zubaydeh said, "bin Ladin and Cheney were responsible for 911", 82 times. nm
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
40. The dead tell no tales!
Same reason the Nazis were stepping up the killing of prisoners as WWII came to an end.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. The mind recoils and shuts down. My mind. nt
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
43. LIHOP
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
45. My question is who would want to watch someone be waterboarded over and over again?
Sickening. Even if that person killed others its still just bizarre.
Obviously by like the 3rd or 4th time I think it lost its effectiveness. I wouldn't be scared anymore. You know you won't die.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
46. Never have I K & R'd with so much enthusiasm. I hope everyone
at DU reads this, leveymg. Good job...too many laws broken and disregarded for this to be aything but the awful truth. I wish it were tinfoil, as no doubt everyone would like to excuse it all away as, keep shining the light.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
47. Maybe, just maybe, the people who REALLY did 9/11 knew too much...
and had to be silenced?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Or they couldn't find enough Jack Rubys? n/t
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