Glenn Greenwald, Salon: "Democrats shouldn't be celebrating" Specter's switch

[Amerigo Vespucci]

What Specter's switch means

His "liberal Republican" label shows how far the political spectrum has moved to the right, and Democrats shouldn't be celebrating

By Glenn Greenwald



http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/28/specter/

(1) The idea that Specter is a "liberal" Republican or even a "moderate" reflects how far to the Right both the GOP and our overall political spectrum has shifted.

Consider Specter’s most significant votes over the last eight years, ones cast in favor of such definitive right-wing measures as: the war on Iraq, the Military Commissions Act, Patriot Act renewal, confirmation of virtually every controversial Bush appointee, retroactive telecom immunity, warrantless eavesdropping expansions, and Bush tax cuts (several times). Time and again during the Bush era, Specter stood with Republicans on the most controversial and consequential issues.

(2) Democrats will understandably celebrate today’s announcement, but beyond the questions of raw political power, it is mystifying why they would want to build their majority by embracing politicians who reject most of their ostensible views.

Reports today suggest that Democratic officials promised Specter that the party establishment would support him, rather than a real Democrat, in a primary. If true, few events more vividly illustrate the complete lack of core beliefs of Democratic leaders, as well as the rapidly diminishing differences between the parties. Why would Democrats want a full-blooded Republican representing them in the blue state of Pennsylvania? Specter is highly likely to reprise the Joe Lieberman role for Democrats: a “Democrat” who leads the way in criticizing and blocking Democratic initiatives, forcing the party still further towards Republican policies.

[bobbolink]

1. Exactly! We need REAL Dems!

[L. Coyote]

5. PA may have two Rs to pick from in 2010! NOT good. But, very SLICK trick.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Not quite - we need more AND better...

The first 1/2 seems to be under control - we need to work on the 2nd half.

[JuniperLea]

2. RINO to DINO in one fell swoop! eom

[bobbolink]

27. Very well put. Same/same In one swelll foop. ^_^

[patriotvoice]

44. He's an *INO. n/t

[bdamomma]

68. yes indeed, this switch was just for Specter just being re elected again

we know DINO's when we see them Senator Specter!!!

[Moochy]

75. Can Scientists Even Tell The Difference Between a RINO and a DINO?

[Metta]

3. What?! Dem leaders have no moral compass? I'm shocked. Shocked.

I can see Spector holding everyone and everything hostage so he can get his way as payback for switching. He's a traitor to democracy.

[gratuitous]

4. Celebrate Republican consternation

Then set up a contested Democratic primary, beat Senator Grandstand, and mop the floor with Crazy Toomey in the general. In the meantime, let Arlen have his last hurrah and then seat him in the Irrelevant Section behind Al Franken.

[Edweird]

118. My sentiments exactly and I couldn't have said it better.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Glenn Greenwald needs to get his head out of his ass.....and see the forest for the trees!

because the amount of Bad PR this does for the Republican Party could not be measured in dollars.

It ain't how Specter will vote that counts, it is what he represents in this country.....Reagan Democrats who joined the Republican party back in the 80s. It's how his move will bring even more moderate Republicans into the Democratic fold...and it is only a matter of time before they start to listen to the Democratic point of view that much more, and a good message will sway many, on areas of health, climate change, etc.... That's how we increase the numbers in the Democratic party, by converting fence sitters into real believers...not by attempting to stay "pure" like the Republicans have done.

We will rebuild this country bit by bit, block by block, state by state.....but not all at once.

Mr. Greenwald obviously doesn't see the bigger picture...yet.

[DJ13]

9. ^ Exactly

And our party gains someone who will be compelled to prove he belongs in the party at a time when theres some really important legislation coming up for a vote.

If he becomes a truly loyal Democrat, and stays that way through the rest of this year, this is a monumental opportunity to get Obama's agenda enacted.

[Luminous Animal]

87. Yes. Just like Lieberman has been compelled...

Hahahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!

[bvar22]

113. Nail on the Head.

I couldn't believe that I just read 2 posts above yours:
"It ain't how Specter will vote that counts,.."!!!
:silly:

CLUE: It is ALWAYS how someone votes that really counts.
The rest is just BS.

[napoleon_in_rags]

12. You just nailed it.

"That's how we increase the numbers in the Democratic party, by converting fence sitters into real believers...not by attempting to stay "pure" like the Republicans have done. "

Perfectly said. We win by creating a model that embraces diversity and debate, I love it!

[John Q. Citizen]

14. I will be watching your reaction when Specter takes the floor to attack Obama and

the Repos say, "See, even the Democrats believe Obama is too radical."

My guess is you will have completely forgotten this post by then and your reaction will be to lash out at Specter and the other Democrats who are backing his position. You will p0robably call them traitors or something equally dramatic.

Look, anybody can register as any party they want.

The problem is that there seems to be a quid pro quo, and that stinks. If you think you can wish the stink away, you are naive.


It's funny. From my perspective Greenwald DOES see the bigger picture, while you are focused on the supposed benefits from todays announcement.

People aren't stupid, and it's obvious that Specter's entire and complete motivation is personal power. He can't win against his GOP rival who almost knocked him off 4 years ago and this is Specter's one road to remain in power. It's embarrassing that our leadership is a party to this.

[seaglass]

51. Agreed. Arlen Specter is not going to change who he is, he has

not been a closet Democrat all along and it is clear that this move absolutely does not signify that he has "seen the light." The only light he has seen is the one at the end of the electoral tunnel.

Glenn has it exactly right.

[TankLV]

80. BINGO!!!

sorry Frenchie...

[Patiod]

58. Will you be sure to point it out to all of us?

Very important that we police opinion consistancy here :eyeroll:

Nothing better for the debate than including stalkers who pop into threads to point out inconsistancies in a specfic poster's stances over time

[JDPriestly]

91. And when he kisses and makes up with his Republican buddies

and embarrasses Democrats by a conspicuous appearance at the Republican Convention in 2012. I trust Specter like I trust a snake in the grass.

[rhett o rick]

25. Respectfully disagree Frenchie. We need a true Democrat in that seat.

Sen Specter is a true blue republiCon as Greenwald said. Why would the Democratic Party rule out replacing him with a true Democrat in an upcoming primary? The same reason the Democratic Party machine supported Lieberman over the grass roots peoples Democratic candidate. The Democratic Party machine doesn't give a crap about the grass roots voters. They are run by Corp-America just like the republiCons. DINO's are taking over OUR party. DINO's are harder to replace with progressive candidates than republiCons.

This is a huge set-back.

[merkins]

33. Disagree

Sorry, but for me it is How Specter Will Vote that Counts .. not his effect on the GOP brand.

>It ain't how Specter will vote that counts, it is what he represents in this country

[dflprincess]

98. For me too

A "D" after someone's name doesn't mean a thing if they're voting like a Republican.

[HughMoran]

36. That's the missed point - it's not our GAIN as much as the Republican LOSS that matters here

You posted what I was thinking. Some miss the point by a mile for some reason.

[NashVegas]

72. If Republicans' Loss Is More Important to You Than OUR Gains

Please go someplace else.

[olegramps]

139. Who are you to tell people to leave here. You must think you are Cheney.

[tomp]

38. apparently , if it ain't the view that Frenchie Cat sees...

...it ain't the big picutre. and when we point to a big picture, you'll surely tell us we're missing the details. your arrogance is phenomenal.

[HughMoran]

124. Anyone with a different view is arrogant?

That IS the definition of arrogant.

Hypocrite.

[stlsaxman]

45. Bingo mon ami!

[quickesst]

46. Thanks....

...reading the replies to the op, I was wondering when the voice of reason, and logic would show up. Republican "purity" is what got them into trouble in the first place, and this is a real blow to what's left of it. Given their low numbers in the polls, I would venture a guess that Spector is not the only disillusioned repug out there. This will help push many over the political line. Thanks again.
quickesst

[freemarketer6]

64. I'm done with Glenn Greenwald. Specter's switch is among

other things a capitulaltion to Democrats. And though he is a might untrustworthy, he is powerful and knows how to get things done. I welcome the dude until it becomes evident he should not be welcomed.

[Moochy]

73. Did you ever start with him?

Throwing him under the bus over this makes me think you've not been reading his other work.

[defendandprotect]

93. Agree . . . "he is powerful and knows how to get things done" . . . but for whom?

That's the problem with Specter, he has been very successful in moving fascism

into America.

[Raineyb]

111. Specter's switch is about one thing and one thing only

and that is getting Specter reelected. Other than that there was no real reason to the switch. If he thought he could keep his job as a Republican he would have done exactly that. He's still opposing EFCA and there's no guarantee for a vote for cloture when the time comes. What we have guaranteed is that we won't get a better candidate out of PA in 2010. I don't see how that's a win for Dems.

Jeffords was more principled than Specter is. This is no capitulation this is naked opportunism so obvious even the blind can see it.

[TankLV]

Goog points, all - but still we have to see the FLIP side, too...

just another LIEberWHORE...

but I'll accept the glass as half full for now...

[Kajsa]

88. Thank you FrenchieCat.

Some people can't 'big picture' a
damn thing.

This move proves how out there
the Republicans are. As Senator
Kerry said,

"This is now officially a Republican Party where moderates need not apply, "
--John Kerry

I welcome the support we are getting.

[JDPriestly]

89. Frenchie, I'll give him a chance, but I'm not going to be at

home in a party of Liebermans and Specters. I'm not that far to the left on economic issues, but our entire system falls apart when we compromise on civil liberties issues for guys like Lieberman and Specter.

Specter's conversion: our loss, his gain. The Democratic leadership gave up far too much to get Specter to switch. I was shocked to hear his lament about how the Republicans had refused to get their court nominees appointed in the Senate and how awful it was that the Republicans through their ineptitude and stubbornness had left the court appointments for Obama. He sure did not sound like anything approaching a Democrat or an Obama supporter to me when he said that. Listen to all of his statement and not just the sound bites you have heard on TV.

Specter is just using the Democratic Party and we will all suffer from the horrible concessions made to him by the Democratic Party leadership.

[katandmoon]

106. His head is exactly where it needs to be -- firmly rooted in REALITY

Just because it hurts the Repugs doesn't necessarily mean it HELPS the Dems. Specter's integrity-less (he did it to save his own political ass) defection to the Dems is a loss for both sides. I hope Obama realizes he can trust Specter no farther than he can throw him.

[NancyG]

109. I agree.

I see the glass as three-quarters full.

[Jakes Progress]

114. There are definitely some heads in some asses.

We just disagree on whose is where.

[yourout]

7. Socially a Dem.....everything else..Neocon.

[Zodiak]

20. He'll fit in well with the DLC, then n/t

[WI_DEM]

8. I'm celebrating one more vote against a filibuster which I believe he will provide and I'm

celebrating giving the GOP a big black eye with this. Also, he is planning to run as a dem in a dem primary and I believe he will move more to the left of center rather than right of center now that he doesn't have to contend with a GOP primary.

[nichomachus]

15. and I "believe" my car will run on tap water -- but that ain't gonna happen either n/t

[thereismore]

10. I am celebrating. May I please? nt

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Me too! I just heard that bush is switching parties if they make him head of the CIA This is great!

Oh, there are those who can't see how wonderful a victory it is to have W register as a Democrat in return for heading up the CIA. They just can't see the forest for the trees, I guess, and their audacity of holding such an opinion and, gasp, writing about it is seriously bumming out my celebration!

Yea! Bush becomes a Dem and our leaders welcome him with open arms!!!!


Ok, i'm kidding, but do you get my point?

[tomp]

39. it's analagous, you're right.

this switch only goes to prove there is no real, essential difference. a lifelong, dyed-in-the-wool, leading republican becomes a democrat overnight and this is taken seriously because....?

i would love to see a progressive democrat challenge him and kick his ass. god, that would be sweet!

[defendandprotect]

122. Evidently Democratic officials have promised to support Specter against another Dem challenger ---!!

[harmonicon]

50. +1

[defendandprotect]

121. I'm sure there is forgiveness even for Bush/Cheney in ....

Democratic hearts . . . bless them!

However, I just don't want these people in Democratic Party/Administration --- !!!

As if Gates -- prime player in "October Surprise" wasn't enough --- !!!???


Meanwhile, I have been hard on Specter -- deservedly, I feel . . .

There is this loophole which may point to his actually trying to make amends . . .

On April 16, 2008, Specter announced that he had been diagnosed with an early recurrence of Hodgkin's disease.<3> According to a statement released by his office, Specter said he plans to continue working and running for re-election. <4>

???

OTOH, I think he could have made many amends by simply telling the truths we need to know
about --

[old mark]

11. Specter is my Senator. He is a devious son of a bitch, but

he is now OUR devious son of a bitch.
Republicans hated him for being too LIBERAL.

He can become a bit more liberal and start to be a real Democrat.
I don't give a damn about his reasons - I just want his damn VOTES!

To quote LBJ,"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in."

I sent him an email today welcoming him to the "only party that is sincerely working for the American people."
I wish him every success and I hope the fucking GOP chokes on it.


mark

[tomp]

40. but, but...Frenchie Cat says his votes don't matter. nt

[Patiod]

61. Great LBJ citation - very apropos

And should we wait until next year's elections to take back that seat, where there are no guarantees that we would win, and when if we did win the seat we would have to wait until January 2011 for the winner to be sworn in.

Or do we hold our nose and bring him into the Big Sixty?

[defendandprotect]

123. LBJ was the biggest ....

"pissing artist" of them all --

he could work from inside and outside the tent at the very same time--!!!

LBJ also has a very dark past.

[Generator]

13. Of course but it also shows

That anyone calling themselves Republicon is a complete fascist loon these days. Which many of us on DU have been saying for years. Those votes he mentions of Specter-seem to be ones he made that he didn't believe in. So anything for power. The dude is a twisted soul. Which reminds me-politics is evil!

I am enjoying someone on their side-Specter finally saying what we have been saying for years. THE HARD RIGHT TURN of the Republicans is so severe it's not your Daddy's Republican party. Moderate Repuhlicans are being assumed by the Democratic party. It may not bode well for the liberal wing here. But we have been fucked so long it's hard to expect anything like say-NAFTA reform-now Obama is against it. We probably lost the Democratic party in the mid nineties. Thanks, Mark Penn.

[hfojvt]

16. that's kinda what I thought too

Unless Specter loses in the Democratic primary, then Pennsylvania voters will have a choice between a far-right Republican and a moderate Republican who is running as a Democrat. They might as well move to Kansas. We would have been much better off to have Specter lose in a bloody primary and then have moderate Republicans vote for the Democrat in the general.

[T Wolf]

21. Considering we already have one DINO in the Senate from PA, we certainly do not need another.

Just watch Lyin' Arlen - he will not vote in a "liberal" way. He will vote as he always has done - with the pukes unless his vote will not alter the outcome. Then he becomes "moderate."

[Bonn1997]

17. How many Dems voted with Specter on each of those votes?

The article could be a little less lopsided and at least mention that he joined many Democrats (in some cases the majority of the Democrats) when casting those votes.

[Chovexani]

19. Greenwald nailed it

Why are people celebrating Grima Wormtongue switching teams? Dude is out for #1, makes no bones about it, and simply cannot be trusted. And I sure as hell don't trust our feckless leadership to keep him in line.

He's Lieberman part deux, only worse because he really was a Repuke.

[Fumesucker]

22. Grima Wormtongue..

:rofl:

Fucking perfect.. That's Specter all right.

[bread_and_roses]

48. I thought so too....ROFL here. (n/t)

[TygrBright]

23. Not only is Glen spot on with the ideological analysis, Dems should refrain from celebrating because

...Specter is a certifiable wackjob who's profoundly embarrassed everyone he's ever been theoretically "allied" with.

This may be the first, devastating salvo in the GOP's retaliation for the many humiliations they've endured since November.

RNC Member: "I know. Let's send them Arlen. Let him embarrass the crap out of them for a change."

GOP Congressional Caucus Member: "Damn straight! BRILLIANT!"

GOP Senator: "Woo-HOO! High fives all around! Don't let the door hitcha where the Lord splitcha, Arlen!"

sourly,
Bright

[Raksha]

24. We are in the process of becoming a three-party nation.

I've been predicting this situation for years. The Republicans have been marginalizing themselves as the far-right extremist party, and pretty soon they won't be able to win a presidential election...and they will KNOW they can't win one either. As far as Congress is concerned, I expect them to lose even more seats in 2010 than they have already, in both the House and the Senate.

The Democratic Party already consists of two wings--the Progressives and the DLC/Blue Dogs. Is there really that much difference between Specter's voting record and your average Blue Dog Democrat's? This is NOT a very good time to be a Blue Dog--I mean, a collaborationist with the disgraced minority party, soon to become a regional party of far-right fascists and racists? Doesn't look like there's much of a political future in that for anyone.

Still, the DLC/Blue Dog types insist upon seeing themselves as "moderates" and "centrists," or at least telling everyone that's what they are. I'm not sure who still believes them (if anyone). I call them collaborationists and neocon enablers myself. So I expect the split between the liberal and conservative factions of the Democratic Party to become wider and wider until finally it becomes official.

[rhett o rick]

26. The problem is that Sen Specter like the blue dog bastards lean to the right.

They will not support health care reform or the employee free trade act. We are seeing the death of the progressive movement, if there ever was one.

[leftstreet]

29. Clowns to the left of us, Jokers to the right

I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

A true progressive/leftist party could pick up millions of disaffected voters who are much further left than the Corporate Party members want us to know.

[Raksha]

30. What the Corporate Party doesn't want us to know is that *WE* (Progressives) are the mainstream.

Unfortunately for them, we already know that. It won't be easy making it official...but definitely worthwhile.

[harmonicon]

53. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that

Right now we have two parties, which are effectively a centrist-right party (the Democrats), and an increasingly far-right party (the Republicans - far right as in fascist, not libertarian). Sure, I vote for Democrats because there are genuine leftists within the party who I feel a great deal of solidarity with, but in effect, the party is centrist-right. The idea that the US has any effective left-wing political block is laughable.

The reason that I would fear an actual split within the Democratic party is that the centrist-right faction is far larger than the leftists, and would probably take a fair portion (10%? 25%?) of Republicans with them; the result, I'm afraid, would be one party rule - a party which could possibly be powerful enough to ignore any opposition.

[swilton]

70. That line of thinking is consistent with Rachel Maddow's

interview with Lincoln Chafee. He predicts the Republican Party will become irrelevant. So in the long run, the Spector defection could strengthen the DLC wing - but ultimately open up the national party spectrum to more independents. I would welcome more left leaning independents like Sanders, et. al. Chafee himself is thinking of running again as an independent - I couldn't complain about that....:hi:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

28. Been sayin' this for years

"how far the political spectrum has moved to the right"

Guess where that places all the "centrist-pragmatists?"

[readmoreoften]

31. Oh no. Is Greenwald now a Hitler-Stalin purist?

We're all doomed. :sarcasm:

[ProgressIn2008]

32. Heh. nt

[Moochy]

74. I've heard of those Hitler-Stalinist Air Quoted Progressives b4!!

They scares me! :scared:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5555456

[ProSense]

35. This is a dumb argument.

Celebrating the Republicans losing a vote is highly appropriate.

Specter wasn't going anywhere until Jan 2011.

He might end up voting mostly with Dems.

Americans will see this: Republican switches to Democratic Party, and all they will take away is that he is rejecting the GOP (a huge blow to their PR campaign) and will be just like other politicians and vote the party line.

:party: :toast:

:bounce:

:woohoo:

[tomp]

41. no, THAT is a dumb argument.

the actual votes and the actual policies don't matter as long as people think the republicans are worse than the democrats. and people say I"M cynical.

[ProSense]

42. You're making your own. n/t

[tomp]

67. wow, all wrong at first and yet again!

[progressoid]

37. "reflects how far to the Right both the GOP and our overall political spectrum has shifted"

I can't argue with that but I am reveling in the GOP implosion.

[AllenVanAllen]

43. The American people on the whole have begun to pay attention

and Specter needs to get with the program or become a dinosaur.

[Hubert Flottz]

47. We gained another DLC democan't...

A Joe LIEberman Clone to the bone! Can't get the job in his own party so he turns coat to serve himself. I don't trust Mr. Sphincter! The blue dogs gained another vote.

[theFrankFactor]

49. I Agree.

The Latest Frank Factor Show:
http://media.switchpod.com/users/jd/TheFrankFactorShow16042709.mp3

[ejbr]

52. It is articles like these that make me proud to be a progressive

fidelity to the truth within 24 hours. Let's hope that PA. Democratic voters will see the light, regardless of the DLC backing of Spector.

[Ganja Ninja]

54. I know we don't want to fall into the same trap the GOP got itself into by going ...

to far to one end of the political spectrum but, we really ought to stand for something. Specter is an independent that only stands for his re-election. So I'm happy with the disintegration of the Republican party but I'm not too thrilled about picking up any survivors.

[MisterP]

105. I think the Republicans' main problem wasn't going "too far" but in having terrible results to begin

with: there's no comparison between ideological left and right--one is flat-out wrong 95% of the time (and vituperative), the other (ideally) struggles for considerateness and egalitarianism
It's not that the GOP moved "too far right": it's BEEN in the same place since Reagan. It's just made one spectacular failure too many, and its rhetoric has gotten too abrasive against the general public.

[formercia]

55. Birds of a feather

"Democratic officials promised Specter that the party establishment would support him"

He's one of 'them.'

Time to clean off the pitchfork and oil up the torches.

[Tab]

56. Well, he DID do it because he believes in Dem values, so what's the complaint?

Oh, wait... I'm thinking of Jim Jeffords.

That's right, Arlen did it because he didn't think he could keep his job if he was a Republican.

He always was a fence-sitter.

My bad.

[Why Syzygy]

57. Michael Steele promised no GOP support

for those three who voted for the stimulus. I guess he took that seriously.

[mdmc]

59. He is as real as most of our current talent

We are a party for corporations, then a party for the working class, then a party for the poor.

All those votes the author states had lots of dem support too. Hell I think my Chucky voted with Spector each time:shrug:

[Meshuga]

60. Or you can just say that the Democratic party

Has become a big tent for moderates.

[kenfrequed]

82. Moderate?

It is a category without a ready definition.

Being a 'Moderate' doesn't actually mean anything because anyone can say it and I end up with almost no idea on how you will vote.

Morever moderation actually can be quite a bit more harmful sometimes than the extremes. Take Healthcare for instance. A left wing "socialized Medicine" solution to the healthcare crisis will work and it will be cheaper than. A complete right wing go your own way thing would probably fail miserably but it would also do so very visably and with little doubt left to people looking at the health crisis.

But the moderate solution of a 'private insurance/public money' partnership would look viable for a longer time and give us the illusion that we are getting things done. Inevitably it would become corporate wealth-fare of the highest order and the costs would skyrocket and ultimately it would fail to cover properly a good percentage of the country.

[defendandprotect]

95. You're discounting how far to the right all political labeling has been moved . . .

Yesterday's moderate is today's right wing model --

and worse, in Specter's case.

[PassingFair]

62. "Ostensible views"... yep that sums up about half of our representatives.

"(2) Democrats will understandably celebrate today’s announcement, but beyond the questions of raw political power, it is mystifying why they would want to build their majority by embracing politicians who reject most of their ostensible views."

The addition of Spector will only split
the party further. LBJ may want his enemies
pissing from inside, but usually they just
leave puddles on the FLOOR.

[ColesCountyDem]

63. As LBJ said, "I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in."

Sadly, Greenwald completely misses the point.

[PassingFair]

107. Sadly, you miss the point....

He will LEAVE PUDDLES ALL OVER our tent.

Can't count on turncoats to piss OUTSIDE.

[Jakes Progress]

65. I noticed it first in the primaries.

I mean the idea that winning and getting numbers were all that was important. Not that anyone is against health care or ending the war or equal rights or civil rights or any of a panoply of "ostensible" Democratic values. But they just take a back seat to winning.

Here in the south, that is high school football mentality. Everyone is all for character development and physical prowess and teamwork. But screw that if you lose. Winning is all.

Then they opine that you have to win to do the good things. People often ask of billionaires just how much money do you have to have and what are you willing to sacrifice for it. I would ask just how much winning do you need? How much is enough before you start doing what you wanted to win for? Just how deep will you cut into your beliefs to win? And to what effect. We won the majority of congress four years ago and squandered it so that we could get ready for the "big" one. We won the White House and keep triangulating for more votes.

I understand the argument that you need a massive majority to pass controversial bills. I understand it; I just don't agree with it. I believe people perceive you as a winner when you act like one. They respect someone who does the battle. We are entirely to afraid of rush and his friends.

I don't mind another Democrat in the Senate. I just wish it would be one that we can use both upper and lower case "d" to describe.

[ColesCountyDem]

66. Let's use a firefighting analogy here, shall we?

We've seen an almost decade-long political confligration in the US Congress, especially in the Senate, due to the fillibuster. Love him or hate him, Sen. Specter has now handed us a firehose to do battle with the right-wing, Republican 'fire', an item that our party has badly needed and one that we have entirely lacked.

:hi:

[Jakes Progress]

71. I would hope so.

But there is no indication in any of the releases that arlen will man the hoses. The 60 votes is a myth, especially when it comes to Democrats. For it to work, all 60 members must stand together, something they have yet to do. There is every indication that our newest brother will continue to light fires as he has done in the past.

The Democratic party is divided between progressives (1960's moderates) and moderates (nixon democrats). Specter adds one to the latter list. Since I was a 1960's progressive (millennial left wing wacko), I would have preferred someone more liberal, a term no one will ever think to apply to Arlen Specter.

Now if Arlen were willing to show he would vote with the more progressive side of the party by saying so, I could be persuaded to wait and see. As it is, I'm willing to be surprised, but not gullible.

Can't wait for the first chance to test the 60 vote theory. How about assault weapon control?

[ColesCountyDem]

85. Thank you for acknowledging that our party is more inclusive than some would ...

We shall see what we shall see regarding Sen. Specter's votes. Not profound insight, I know, but a nonetheless realistic view. As my grandfather used to say, "You use the tools you have, not the ones you don't have", and this is how I feel about Sen. Specter. He's not the perfect 'tool', but he's the one we have, so it would behoove us to figure out how to best use him and his vote.

Regarding the assault-weapons bill, I have no idea what lies in store. I know who's clearly for it and who's clearly against it, but neither position presently has enough votes to prevail. Again, we shall see what we shall see...

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

94. "Inclusive" is a misnomer when we begin to take on someone like Specter . . .

who has enabled fascism in America over his long career --

[ColesCountyDem]

96. I believe in repentance and the forgiveness of sin, so to speak...

I'm no Specter fan, unlike some, but time will tell; I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now...

[defendandprotect]

100. The real Arlen Specter ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=244724&mesg_id=244724

Specter also put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court which gave us the
gang of 5 who put W in the White House.

[ColesCountyDem]

103. I know this.

I wasn't in a coma for the last 20 years. j/k ...

;) :hi:

[defendandprotect]

108. Glad to hear that . . .

not everyone has read Jean Hill's experience at Arlen Specter's hands --

Evidently, it doesn't bother you that Specter played such a huge role in

burying witnesses and testimony re the JFK coup -- and threatening them?





:eyes:

[ColesCountyDem]

115. Of course it bothers me.

I've never said I was in favor of supporting his re-election bid, for one, and I've already made it clear why I'd rather have him 'inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in', for another. I've also lived long enough to know that only a fool lets the perfect become the enemy of the good.

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

116. "the perfect the enemy of the good" . . . ? Sounds like something from

a Rush Limbaugh program.

I think the "pissin'" is also worn out --

We need more of a steady, constant upward spiral in all of our affairs --

and less pissin' --

IMO, only fools support obvious fascists --

[ColesCountyDem]

119. Then we must agree to disagree. n/t

[ColesCountyDem]

120. It's actually Voltaire... n/t

[defendandprotect]

137. It's actually, "Half a loaf of bread is better than none."

I was talking about the overuse of this nonsensical quote here at DU --

No one here is looking for perfection -- we are looking for justice and

progressive decision making.

Constantly taking the half a loaf of bread has left us in a constant downward spiral.

[ColesCountyDem]

141. When that's all that's offered, your only choice is to accept or not accept.

Sorry to be the one to tell you this.

[defendandprotect]

145. Sane people create other options . . . what's your Plan B???

[ColesCountyDem]

125. Kick

We've got good dialogue going on here...

:)

[defendandprotect]

129. Where?

Were those replies . . . ?

:)

[ColesCountyDem]

130. Oh, they're here...

You just have to wade through a lot of rhetoric to find them.
:)

[Raineyb]

112. Specter has already told us what he is

When he made his speech all he could talk about was his chances of winning the primary and his odds of being able to continue to be Senator (as though it were a job he was entitled to). This all smacks of opportunism. He's telling you in fairly plain language that he doesn't really believe in anything that he's only interested in keeping his job. When people tell you what they are it generally behooves you to believe them.

If his past wasn't enough to garner distrust his change of party speech certainly ought to have. He's done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt now.

Regards

[benEzra]

127. No thanks.

How about assault weapon control?

No thanks. Fighting to ban the most popular civilian rifles in America, when rifles account for only 3% of U.S. murders, is wrongheaded and counterproductive. Authoritarian Third Way/DLC types already threw away Congress once over the issue, and that legislation didn't even ban any guns. An actual ban would go over worse.

Fortunately, a great many of the Dems that turned Congress blue in '06 oppose the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch, so I don't see it going anywhere.

[Jakes Progress]

132. A little hysteria?

I didn't use the word "ban", but of course it makes your point if you over state.

We don't agree on this.

[benEzra]

135. Most people call the 1994 Feinstein law a "ban", and it halted the sale of exactly zero guns.

If by "assault weapon control," you mean something even less restrictive than the 1994 "ban", why do you think it would do anything whatsoever to reduce gun violence? You're talking about less-than-cosmetic restrictions on the least misused guns, which makes no sense whatsoever.

And given that those guns are the most popular civilian rifles in America, petty harassment of their owners is going to do more harm than good, just as the 1994 non-ban did.

[Jakes Progress]

142. Ban?

[benEzra]

144. Need a little more detail, please.

Unlike some people on this board, I make no claim to be able to read the minds of others.

[slackmaster]

128. Specter is on record as opposing any attempt to revive the failed "AW" ban

And rightly so.

[Jakes Progress]

134. Must make him...what??? A god or something.

[slackmaster]

138. Making him well-informed and sensible on that particular issue

His mileage on any other issue may vary.

[Jakes Progress]

143. We disagree.

[swilton]

69. More fodder for Evan Bayh and the DLC

I'm not celebrating.:thumbsdown:

[inwiththenew]

76. The Repubs can keep this clown

For all I care. Who wants someone who one day decides after 30 year he is going to be the another party with no in between. Most people who leave their party in Washington usually go independent first. It reeks of jumping on the bandwagon. If the Democratic party supports this guy for reelection they deserve to lose that seat. I mean lets get real for a second here, do you think people who have been voting against this guy for years are all of a sudden going to support him because he changed his party?

[TankLV]

77. Just another OPPORTUNISTIC LIEberWHORE...

HE'S NOT A "DEMOCRAT" - specter personifies what a "DINO" is...

and just because we "have" "60" or nearly 60 now, doesn't mean in any way shape or form we have their VOTES!!!

It's "good" that he identifies as Dem, but he is another LIEberWHORE...

[Liberal Gramma]

78. We're on our way to a three-party system

Liberal Dems, Blue Dogs, and Republicans. I see a future of Liberal Democrats vs Conservative Democrats, with Republicans being about as effective as Whigs. The good news is that Conservative Democrats are still more eglatarian than Republicans.

[defendandprotect]

101. Yesterday's conservative is today's right-winger --

The DLC in the Democratic Party is the corporate-wing, dedicated to moving the party
to the right.

Co-option of the Democratic Party is well under way.

[mike_c]

79. I have no use whatsoever for conservative asshats...

...no matter what letter they write after their name. The repigs can keep him as far as I'm concerned.

[onenote]

81. the "blue" state of Pennsylvania - not exactly

Statewide PA is not a reliably "blue" state. In the past 30 years, it has elected repub governors twice (Ridge and Thornburgh) and Democrats twice (Casey and Rendell). Moderate repubs (yes, even Ridge is viewed as a moderate within repub circles) and moderate Dems. Senate races in PA have been even more skewed towards repubs, with repubs (Heinz and Santorum) holding one of the seats for 24 of the past 30 years (Casey currently holds that seat) and with repubs (Schweiker and Specter) holding the other seat for all 30 years.

And while Obama scored a comfortable victory in PA last year, the results over the past 30 years are more splintered. Bush I won in PA as did Reagan (twice). More recently, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry all captured the state, but generally by narrow margins. (For example, in 1992 and 1996, Clinton won with less than 50 percent of the vote in PA and both Gore and Kerry fell short of 51 percent).

[wuushew]

83. Greenwald is wrong

If this frees up resources for other races in 2010 the overall shade of blue in the Senate is more likely to darken.

Where is his strategic and pragmatic thinking? Specter is an old man. Does Greenwald somehow think the party is going to be sattled with him for another 40 years?

[groovedaddy]

86. An old man who has had cancer...n.t

[thesquanderer]

84. How different from Obama?

Okay, yes, I know they're not the same, but I think it's worth noting that some of what Greenwald takes Specter to task for applies to Obama as well (i.e. Patriot Act renewal, retroactive telecom immunity)

[defendandprotect]

90. Democrats should be forewarned . . .

Reports today suggest that

Democratic officials promised Specter that the party establishment would support him, rather than a real Democrat, in a primary.

If true, few events more vividly illustrate the complete lack of core beliefs of Democratic leaders, as well as the rapidly diminishing differences between the parties.

Why would Democrats want a full-blooded Republican representing them in the blue state of Pennsylvania? Specter is highly likely to reprise the Joe Lieberman role for Democrats: a “Democrat” who leads the way in criticizing and blocking Democratic initiatives, forcing the party still further towards Republican policies.


This is a "win" only for those DINOs working to move the party to the right ---

[Luminous Animal]

92. Pledge to run a progressive against Specter.

Make the pledge to run a progressive candidate against him in the primaries.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-support-a-real-progressive-against-Arlen-Specter/76951643702

http://openleft.com/diary/13081/would-you-step-up-to-help-a-progressive-challenger-to-specter

If there is a potential progressive challenger to Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania, they are probably scratching their head right now asking, "Would I have any chance at all if I ran, or is the fix in?"

What can progressives to do create an environment where this person feels they can run?

Legally, we can't put money in a pot for a fictional candidate. But we can pledge now that if a real progressive steps up, we'll get their back.

So, here's a little experiment. I just created a Facebook fan page (like a Facebook group) called "I support a real progressive against Arlen Specter."

People who join are pledging to give at least $25 to a credible progressive challenger who steps up. It'll either succeed or flop -- and that will solely be determined by whether the energy is there for people to join and pass it along to their friends.

[disndat]

97. Not to worry, Glenn!

If Obama tells Specter to jump, Specter will jump. Obama is handing Specter a life preserver by seeing to it that no Democrat will oppose him in the primary. That's how powerful, in a good way, Obama has become. Both Obama and Biden looked so elated at the announcement on C-Span this morning. Some more of Obama, the chess player this morning.

[RedCloud]

99. Will he apologize for Mr. Starr?

Just had to keep "prodding" him along.

[BrklynLiberal]

102. I sure cannot argue against any of those points.

[lsewpershad]

104. This "Spectre"

must think all Dems are gullible or stupid.

[Dinger]

110. I Hope They Find A Real Dem To Run Against Him (nt)

[Raineyb]

117. Once again Glenn Greenwald hits the nail on the head

This will come back to bite us. And not being able to run a real Democrat for senate in PA is a bad idea.

Regards

[bertman]

126. Too late to recommend, but here's the kick. President Obama knows that Specter is

nothing more than a specter (something that haunts or perturbs the mind, per Webster) who is useful in the short term to haunt and perturb the reichwingers. Right now, he's a P.R. gift and nothing more because he's going to be another Liebermann--only worse. But, our President thinks he can use him to gain a few victories that he might not have won otherwise.

It remains to be seen how much support the party would give to Specter if he continues to be a reactionary Democrat--which is where he is on the spectrum right now.

Of course President Obama would say he would campaign for him. What do you think he'd say, "Welcome to our party, Senator, and enjoy it while you can, because we're going to unseat your sorry right-wing ass in the next election."?

And, right on cue, our newest Democratic Senator shows his "independence" by voting against the Obama budget. Fuck Specter.

[depakid]

131. Agreed- Pennsylvanians need to get rid of that jerk

[Bucky]

133. Everyone loves a sore winner, Glenn

I think we should reject the votes of Republicans who cross over and start voting Democratic because of extremism in the Republican Party. If they weren't with us from the beginning, why should we accept their support now that we're winning? :eyes:

[w4rma]

136. Let's face it: Nobody wants this guy and he can't win a primary in either party.

That said, I'd rather have him on our side breaking filibusters until primary voters show him the door for good.

[olegramps]

140. I welcome him, however, I don't agree with not challenging him.

If I understand it, there is some kind of agreement that the Democratic Party would not support someone wants to challenge him in a primary. I firmly don't believe that should happen, especially in this case. It's great that he will be sitting with the Democrats and not the Republicans; he could be a useful idiot for the next year and six months. He was once a Democrat and changed parties before so who knows how he will vote now. Personally, I think that he is full of it. A self-serving wind bag, but that describes most politicans.