In times of economic crisis public transit always gets the shaft.....Draconian cuts in St. Louis

[marmar]

from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:



Big cuts coming to Metro bus, train service
By Ken Leiser

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
03/22/2009


Navigating St. Louis soon will become a daily struggle for thousands who depend on public transportation.

Metro, the region's largest transit agency, will dramatically scale back the reach of its bus system — wiping out two dozen bus routes and modifying others. Beginning March 30, service will be suspended to 2,300 of the 9,000 bus stops and bus shelters in the Missouri half of Metro's system.

And MetroLink light-rail trains will run less often on both sides of the Mississippi River during times when commuters need them the most: rush hour.

The buses and trains that remain are expected to be more crowded.

Ray Friem, Metro's senior vice president for transit operations, said the St. Louis region would be left with a transit system that's one-third of what exists today. .........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/EE88B3C82934B4028625758000045DDF?OpenDocument

[dem629]

1. It's logical. Fewer people need transportation on a regular basis.

[ShortnFiery]

3. No, IMO, you travel more when you are LOOKING for work. Must pound the pavement. n/t

[dem629]

6. Not on a regular basis.

[SharonAnn]

4. Actually, more people need transportation. Fewer can afford autos.

[dem629]

7. If that were true, then the money from users would be there.

[Luminous Animal]

15. Mass transportation is not self-sustaining.

Nobody expects roads to be break even money makers. Why should mass transportation? Roads, bridges, tunnels, traffic signs, etc., are considered essential no matter how few people use them. There's very little criticism about how we have to pay to subsidize private transport infrastructure.

[marmar]

5. But that's not the case now.....Public transit usage is at a record and rising.

But budgets are getting slashed.

[dem629]

8. Obviously not enough to keep it worthy of funding.

There's no sense in spending money on public transportation vehicles that are going to sit around or drive around town with two passengers.

[marmar]

9. I don't think you understand the economics of public transport.....

Even the most heavily used public transit systems - Tokyo, Paris, London, New York etc - require massive government subsidies to operate - fares paid by riders alone don't cover their operating costs. These systems carry millions of people each day, and the cities would shut down without them. The governments subsidize them because they're essential.

[dem629]

11. Ah, yes. That's it. Disagreement means I don't understand.

The point is that if the demand was there (as measured in money) they wouldn't cut. The demand is not there, as the article states.

[marmar]

16. Vehicles are not sitting around nor are they going empty.....

..... Where are you getting this?

Do a Google search on public transportation, and you'll find that quite the opposite is true.

[Luminous Animal]

18. The article does not state that there is no demand there.

Just as you cannot measure the road you drive on by how much money it makes (most don't make any money at all), you cannot measure the effectiveness of mass transit by out-of-pocket revenue.

Roads and highways are a system of mass transit. A wasteful system, but one, nonetheless. Nobody measures roads in money.

[Luminous Animal]

10. There is no evidence from the article

that vehicles are sitting around. In fact, the article states that with the cuts, the system will lose 9 million riders.

[dem629]

12. That's the drop in demand.

[Luminous Animal]

17. No it isn't.

That's how many people who will be forced to stop taking mass transit because of the cuts. You cannot cut a system by 2/3s and not lose riders.

[marmar]

13. self-delete, responsed to wrong post

[jpak]

26. It's illogical - people need more public transit during hard times

Cutting back public transit can only worsen an economic crisis.

:puke:

[ShortnFiery]

2. Such acts are idiotic. If ever there was a need for reasonable transportation, ...

it's during economic recessions. :(

[TwilightGardener]

14. I wonder if there's some correlation between the cuts and St. Louis's decline

in population? I've heard that the city is much like Detroit, a formerly major American city that's steadily losing people. If so, some cuts do make sense, but a third of the former service sounds pretty drastic.

[marmar]

19. Detroit's got 850,000 people and 5 million in the metro area...I think that still qualifies as major

n/t

[TwilightGardener]

20. True--just talking about the trend, more than today's population.

[taterguy]

21. Kick while I try to decide how to respond

[KamaAina]

22. More from soon-to-be-marooned St. Louisans

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/F024BC0E341460DA8625758000062786?OpenDocument

"I'm looking at a five-minute drive or a 45-minute ride on Metro to get to work, which adds up to an hour and a half a day commuting," Palmer said. "If I bought a car I would spend 20 minutes a day commuting. So there is sort of a threshold where is it worth the extra hour of my day every day to take public transportation or should I just buy a car and start driving again?"...

Then last week, Hubbard, 22, caught a break. Her parents scraped up enough money to buy her a used Ford Contour....

"I hope it doesn't affect me that I have to be late for work," she said. "I have two clients, and I go in their home and clean. And some of them don't like me to be running late."...

Once the express buses are idled, Blume will take the driver's seat herself. She has organized a carpool with other AT&T co-workers. Some changed their hours to make it work. Each morning, she and four others will meet at her home near Fenton and take her Jeep Liberty to downtown St. Louis.

Also note that only the Missouri side is getting hammered (except for the MetroLink rail, which serves Illionis as well). This is all about a lack of state funding, not ridership.

edit: Guess I can cross one more place off the list of places where I could actually live without a car and not be a seocnd-class citizen. :grr:

[taterguy]

23. In a sane world you'd be treated with respect and admiration

Cars are fueled by oil, which is generally produced by folks that don't have very enlightened values.

Walking and biking is fueled by food.

And we all know there's nothing more admirable than an American Farmer.

Right?

[Tigermoose]

24. If I remember correctly, voters voted NO to additional Metro funding.

This is probably a result of that vote.

[taterguy]

25. Did the voters receive adequate information before the vote?

Were they informed of how much tax money it costs the government if people travel by automobile vs. mass transit?

Seriously, I'm not from that area so I'd like to know how the issue was presented to the voters.