Capitalism, like communism, is dead.

[kentuck]

It's a new world in which we live. If the old Soviet Union had spent the trillions that America has spent, would they still be around today? I doubt that anyone would think so? And America cannot spend its way out of this new world order either. The reality is that capitalism is already dead. Artificial respiration will not revive it.

We see bank stocks, once the most respected in the world, sitting at $1 to $8 in value on the stock market. We see America shoveling billions more into AIG, because if they fail to do so, the entire economies of Europe could collapse tomorrow. We see the Big Auto companies on the verge of bankruptcy. We see the "free-marketeers" begging for government bailouts. We see economists advising the President to "nationalize" the big banks. We see people losing their jobs by more than a million every two months. Our money is worthless and we are up to our eyeballs in debt. And our only solution is that we need to spend trillions of dollars more to get ourselves out of the hole? It is insanity. Capitalism is dead. Don't waste your bullet.

The only question is, what type of economic system will take the place of capitalism? In my uneducated and worthless opinion, I think it will be something unlike anything the world has ever seen. There will be a mixture of communes, farming and otherwise, along with some capitalistic ventures, and many socialistic ideas all rolled into one form of government, out of necessity, in order for countries to survive the chaos and anarchy sure to follow.

[indepat]

1. Which commie proffered long ago that America would destroy itself from within? If 20 years of

reckless 'puke rule in the past 28 years has not done the job, then it has made a damn good imitation of having done so. :P

[anonymous171]

2. Free Market Capitalism is dead. Capitalism is still alive. nt

[BuyingThyme]

3. Capitalism rules!

[BuyingThyme]

4. Corporatism blows.

[killbotfactory]

5. Nope, sorry, this is the best we can do

To think the feeble human mind could possibly dream of anything else that is better is just utopian nonsense.

It's the end of history, you know.

Let's all raise a glass and toast our all knowing capitalist overlords.

[kentuck]

6. I'm sorry...

I went off the grid there for just a moment...

[corruptmewithpower]

7. FDR couldn't kill capitalism, and neither can BHO

We will always have a public sector(socialism) and a private sector(capitalism). We need both. Their relative sizes is the argument.

[marmar]

8. He doesn't need to. Capitalism is doing a bang-up job killing itself.....

n/t

[kentuck]

10. And some say FDR "saved" capitalism.

People were much more desperate in those times than at present. We may be entering the New Deal, Part II?

[corruptmewithpower]

14. It's a new new deal indeed.

However, of 200 or so economies in the world, all but one or two have a private sector, and I'd bet even Cuba and N. Korea have black marketeers.

[leftofthedial]

11. Capitalism has died under its own corrupt weight

If anything, FDR saved it from itself. Clearly, undeniably, Obama is now trying like hell to save capitalism, not kill it. That is his problem.

[anonymous171]

13. FDR saved Capitalism. And yet the rich and powerful still hated him. nt

[kentuck]

15. Elephants have long memories.

Just like today, they never believed their policies were responsible for anything. They blamed the Depression on FDR. They haven't changed a bit in 75 years.

[Terry in Austin]

9. Rumors of its death may be exaggerated... or not

You see more and more of this discussion lately, and rightly so.

One thing that would help, I think, would be for each of us to understand just what the other is referring to when they mention the word "capitalism." Or "socialism," for that matter.

A lot of it seems to have a leftover Cold War sub-text that means simply "our system" versus "their system." It gives big-c Capitalism almost patriotic overtones, which really muddies any productive economic discussion.

My own understanding of it is this: capitalism is the practice of lending money at interest -- "usury," in the traditional sense of the term. You can have free markets without usury, you can have private enterprise without usury, you can have democracy without usury. But you can't have capitalism without usury.

Lending money at interest is a dandy way to gain an income without working at some productive activity. There are a lot of people who support the idea very enthusiastically, and who can blame them? They've gotten very used to being work-optional, and tend to take a dim view of any suggestion that they give it up. Since they have grown very powerful because of this trick, it seems unlikely that the system that makes it possible will pass quietly.

The problem with usury is that it creates "free money" -- the part that work-optional people like so much -- money that is fictitious, in that it no longer accurately represents the amount of wealth in the system. Capitalists admit that a certain inflation rate is inevitable -- the economy must grow by a certain percent just to stay even, because it's adjusting to the amount of money that appears out of thin air due to interest.

Sooner or later, a money system like this will become so inaccurate it can no longer function adequately, and the essential prop will be kicked out from under the capitalists. At that point, it may be possible for the system to pass, but again, probably not quietly.

What then? That's pretty interesting to contemplate, but who knows? "Socialism" seems to be a very general term referring to a lot of related ideas about governance and economics, but I for one can't tell if it's really a system in the same way that the capitalist system is.

I don't think it'll be rocket science to do something else besides capitalism -- there are many ways to do money, for example, other than monetizing the debt. We could monetize labor, with the added bonus that we wouldn't constantly have to be borrowing from our grandchildren. Lots of technique is already out there -- it's more a matter of political will and support.

But I think the key issue really hinges on the institution of lending at interest. If somehow civilization puts the institution behind it, as it has with, say, slavery, then capitalism will be truly dead and we can tend to our affairs with whatever replaces it. Until then, I'd say we can count on having some form of capitalism, even if it's held together with Band-Aids and baling wire.

[specimenfred1984]

12. Capitalism is only as good as its regulation

A capitalist country either goes after its criminals or becomes a criminal nation itself.